Viconia and usefulness
RedWizard
Member Posts: 242
After playing so many times I can never seem to find the cleric spells that important, especially if it's a full AND evil cleric like Viconia who does not get access to Holy Smite/1 attack round only. I can see a use for Anomen or Aerie but Viconia, well...
Heck it seems Viconia is there mostly to spam healing spells after the fight is over or as a mass skeleton summoning factory, but healing/reviving is easily taken care of through temple heals (very cheap from npc in Bridge District) or Rods of Ressurrection.
This also brings me to another point, are healing spells even needed? I feel like I'm swimming in pots of extra/normal healing although this might be because of the potions for npc component from SCSII, I don't really remember how often pots drop in the vanilla game.
Heck it seems Viconia is there mostly to spam healing spells after the fight is over or as a mass skeleton summoning factory, but healing/reviving is easily taken care of through temple heals (very cheap from npc in Bridge District) or Rods of Ressurrection.
This also brings me to another point, are healing spells even needed? I feel like I'm swimming in pots of extra/normal healing although this might be because of the potions for npc component from SCSII, I don't really remember how often pots drop in the vanilla game.
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Comments
prior to tob, i find her spells useful in most battles.
cleric spells are actually very good but suffer terribly from slow casting. cleric/mage is a much better cleric than a pure cleric (casting time reduction). aerie is therefore indeed a better cleric than viconia.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I always self buffed her and used her as a off tank. Then again, based on everything I find, she s suppose to sit in the back casting spells next to charname. But its alot easier for charname to watch her assets... If she is in front of him >.>
With some strength-enhancing item she is useful in melee, also protected by her magic resistance. But I think Aerie makes a better tank with stoneskin and mirror image. Their role is not so much to deal damage, but to distract enemy attacks.
You can solo Bodhi's lair with her in Chapter 6 if you wanted too with that combination and sunray (Sharran's really shouldn't be casting that, though) She has 19 dex and 18 Wisdom. That's two maxed out ability scores, and that's very significant. Give her Crom Faeyr and she eternally has has 25 STR (this doesnt' make Draw or Divine Power redundant by any means), shield of reflection and she will still wreck Beholders, cast Magic Resistance on herself and she's damn near untouchable.
Viconia is OP. Far, far, from 'meh'. Her drawbacks are early game she is squishy and she can't cast Holy Smite, which is of no usefulness once you reach a certain point in the game. The main drawback IMO late game is she has [b]too many[/b] spells, that if you buff yourself completely before each fight it gets tedious at times.
I pretty much always play with Spell Revisions and SCS on max settings nowadays, and with these changes, she is [b]still[/b] ridiculously powerful.
Second, clerics are the kind of class that will only be useless if you're bloody rich with lots of potions and scrolls . Until you get that far, you're gonna need healings, protections, hold person/silence and even divine summons. And guess what, as you progress in the game clerical spells become really powerful - spells such as finger of death or earthquake are quite useful at later levels.
Viconia come with a high base magic resistance, amazing dexterity and 18 in wisdom. Her main weakness (Strength) can be solved by giving her one of the many strength items that you can find in the game and until you get one of those, you can use buffs to improve her Strength.
One of the easiest no-reload games I've had was with my group of 4 clerics.
More spells
Higher casting level compared to paladins
There are reasons to have a pure cleric, and a cleric of helm will be able to deal a ton of damage with an APR of 3.
Hate? There is nothing but love.
She gets 1 attack per round only, but that doesn't matter since she's a supporting caster. You attack once, then cast a spell. Next round, repeat.
Slings benefit from strength bonuses for damage, that's where DUHM/Righteous Magic comes in.
As far as spells and casting level goes, this comes down to playstyle. I'm not a big fan of summoning or save-or-die spells, and when you take that out of the equation, there's not much left at the higher levels. Plus, Blade Barrier never seems to do anything against enemies that are actually dangerous, maybe that's just me. Low-level spells like Protection from Evil 10', Hold Person, Silence 15', Bless, etc. are all pretty much the same regardless of casting level. A pure class cleric can Dispel Magic better than a Mage, but is still worse than a Bard.
There are many good spells, even on the lower levels.
[Level 1]
Sanctuary - You should always have a sanctuary spell memorized, it makes you immune to everything in the game for a short duration. Let's you survive and get away.
Bless - I keep one of these to buff my entire party with +1 Thac0.
Armor of faith - Powerful spell once you hit later levels, grant you damage reduction to physical attacks.
Command - Great in BG1 to shut down enemy casters, it's based on HP so it won't do anything against enemies with higher levels. You can make an Ankheg fall down for a moment with it. It's duration is very short, but when they fall asleep you'll automatically hit on your next attack, and you can use it to interrupt spell casting.
Cure Light Wounds - Most of my level 1 spells go here, when you rest the computer will automatically cast them all for you on wounded NPC's, so if you have 9 you won't have to use them all, just keep them memorized for resting.
Protection from Evil - I don't use this spell, i use the AoE one for the entire team.
Remove Fear - I normally keep one of these, they come handy when the enemy can use fear.
[Level 2]
Chant - Great AoE spell that buffs your party for a short duration.
DuHM - I'll normally have 1 or 2 of these to buff my character with. You'll also get them as bhaal spawn powers if you have good reputation.
Flame Blade - Great weapon against trolls and such.
Hold Person - My favorite spell, it's a tiny AoE so if you group up the human enemies around one of your tanks, you can hold up to 4 people at once.
Silence 50' radius - Good to shut down enemy spell casters, be careful it can also hit your own so throw it away from your party or on top of your fighters.
Slow Poison - Always good to have one memorized.
[Level 3]
Animate dead - Great tanks and fighters, they are undead so immune to many spells. When you hit level 15 you'll summon skeletal warriors, they are immune to all magic except the death spell because it instantly kills summons. Skeletal warriors are immensely powerful, high health, good damage, immune to magic and normal weapons.
Cure Medium Wounds - Healing spell
Dispel Magic - Good to have, better to have it on your cleric than mage, as you'll have more spells with clerics.
Glyph of warding - Good AoE damage spell, works like skull trap.
Holy smite - Awesome AoE spells with huge range that deals damage to evil targets (most enemies in the game) and can also blind them if they fail save throw.
Protection from Fire - Good when fighting dragons or if you're going to use fire AoE spells. Use it on your tank and then have him gather up the enemy while your mages blast them with fireballs.
Remove Curse - Good to have one, just in case you need it.
Zone of Sweet air - Great spell, always have one memorized. It removes stinking cloud, death fog, cloud kill and other AoE cloud effects.
[Level 4 spells]
Cure serious wounds - Healing spell
Death Ward - Great spell, makes a character immune to all death magic or abilities that instantly kill you.
Defensive Harmony - Awesome AoE buff spell that grants AC.
Free action - Good to have one or two on your tanks to prevent some slows and entangles. It removes haste though, so have to ask yourself what is more important.
Holy Power - Great damage buff for your cleric.
Lesser Restoration - Lets you get rid of that nasty level drain from people.
Negative plane protection - Makes the target immune to level drain for a short period of time.
Protection from Evil 10 radius - Protection from evil but AoE so can cover your entire party.
Protection from Lightning - Long lasting protection spell that works like protection from fire, but against lightning instead. It turns the lightning room in watcher's keep from very difficult to almost trivial.
[Level 5 spells]
Chaotic Commands - Best cleric spell in the entire game, make sure all your party members have it, it's not that hard as it's very long lasting. It makes the target immune to - Magical Commands, Charm, domination, command, sleep, confusion and maze. This spell also makes you immune to the psionic blast from mind flayers so they can't stun you.
Flame Strike - Awesome damage spell, will be your main single target damage spell in the game.
Righteous Magic - This level 5 spell adds +1 STR for every 3 levels you are up to a maximum of 25. This while nice is not the best part of it. This buff spell also makes you deal maximum damage possible on every hit!
Magic Resistance - Really good spell that buffs your magic resistance. But remember it's not additional magic resistance, it actually SETS your magic resistance to an amount depending on your level. So if you have 50% magic resistance it would put it down to 13% (If that's what your level would give). What is awesome with this spell though, is if you cast it on an enemy, it will also SET their resistance. So you can put an enemies magic resistance down from 70% to 13% as well.
Mass cure - AoE healing spell targeting your team, efficient and powerful, love it.
Raise dead - Resurrect.
True sight - Better that your cleric have it than mage, but you get true sight for free as a Priest of Helm.
[Level 6 spells]
Blade Barrier - Awesome spell that deals damage to everyone around you, works great with the epic ability called globe of blades for even more damage. When you have these two on, if the enemy doesn't get a saving throw, they will explode just by being close to you. Be careful that depending on patches and mods, you might hit your own targets if they get too close.
A small hint : You can buff yourself with both of those spells and then use sanctuary to make yourself immune to everything. You can't attack during sanctuary, but the enemy will still take damage from Blade Barrier and Globes of Blades.
Bolt of Glory - Good against undead and demons, not so much other than that.
Conjure Animals - Great spell that lets you summon two powerful polar bears to fight for you.
Heal - Instantly heals someone 100%
Wondrous Recall - It's always good to have one of these memorized. They let you bring back two spells you have memorized and used from level 1 to 5 spells. It's nice to get back another flame strike or buff spell, or a healing spell if needed. It's better to be safe than sorry and who wants to say no to getting back two spells you have used?
[Level 7 spells]
Confusion - It's good if you don't have a mage, but they have better spells (chaos) that do the same thing.
Earth quake/Fire storm - Good AoE damage spells but be very careful where you use them.
Finger of death - Like the mage spell
Regeneration - Great spell to cast on a tank, regenerates health back during combat.
Resurrection - Restores an ally with 100% health
Holy Ward - Great AoE spell that will target enemies around you and have different effects depending on their level, low level enemies will instantly die.
Shield of the Archons - Some people don't like this spell, i love it. It lets you resist enemy spells. It works like this : You can resist spells up to half of your level as a cleric, before it goes away.
So if you're level 20, you can resist 10 spell levels. This means that if the enemy use a level 3 spell, you'll resist it and lose 3 spell levels and only have 7 remaining. If an enemy throw a level 2, 3 and 4 spells you'll be able to resist all of them. The higher level your cleric is, the more powerful this spell becomes. It's the only way for a cleric to protect himself from Imprisonment, so useful on a no-reload game.
Sunray - Like the daystar ability, it destroys undead like a piece of butter in the oven.
Symbol death/fear/stun - Occasionally useful spells to have, especially the fear and stun one.
[Epic spells]
Energy blades - Awesome ranged attack spell. You'll have a certain amount of blades you can throw, depending on your level.
Globe of Blades - As mentioned earlier, very powerful spell that is a buff that hits targets around you.
Mass raise dead - You shouldn't get into a position where you need this, but if you do it's a nice way to get 2-3 dead people up at once. Just remember that if you use it in combat, they won't be able to equip their armor.
Storm of Vengeance - Very, VERY powerful AoE spell that inflicts conditions and deal damage.
Summon Deva - Like the planetar, this will be your most powerul summoning spell. Remember that it isn't only a fighter, it can also throw spells like full heal and stuff.
There are many good spells out there to use, just need to figure out how to use them. These are some of the spells i find the most use for. My cleric spell slots get filled fast and I'll either play them up front in melee (Helm) or further back slinging spells (Talos) to disrupt (Hold, Confuse, Command, etc) and damage (Flame strike, Holy smite, bolt of glory). They aren't just for buffing, even though that is what most people use them for.
Alternatively, give the Spell Revisions mod a try if you want to try a different take on spells. It does a pretty good job of making most spells useful in the longrun, at higher levels, as well as making arguably useless one's useful. IIRC there's only one sling that adds strength bonus to in the BG series unmodded
Also, EE made it so that all slings add strength damage bonuses.
@SionIV A level 8 Cleric doesn't have Righteous Magic yet, so you're getting what, 20-21 STR? That's an average 14 average damage per hit with the Seeking Sword (a once per day ability at that point). A level 8 Fighter dual-wielding +1 Longswords with 18/00 STR (Gauntlets of Ogre Power) gets the same APR and 15.5 damage per hit thanks to High Mastery. The Cleric of Helm pulls ahead at level 9 thanks to Righteous Magic (again, once per day), but only until the Fighter hits level 13 and is clocking in at 4 attacks. And that's using bargain bin magical weapons; once you get stuff like Varscona in BG1, or Daystar or Flail of Ages in BG2 there's no contest.
And of course, Viconia doesn't get to be a Cleric of Helm, so she's stuck without even the ability to temporarily become an average fighter.
I do know Viconia isn't a cleric of helm, my whole point in this thread was not to write of the cleric as not being able to deal damage. With no gear except a full plate he'll turn into a killing machine, you don't even need a weapon.
The sword duration is decent once you hit level 7+ and I've never had a problem with it running out with enemies alive.
There's also a well-known trick where you can cast Limited Wish, have a low-Wisdom character talk to the genie, and ask to be "protected from undead right now." It'll summon a gang of vampires that a high-level Viconia can control with Turn Undead.