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So, what are the Shaman class details? (THAC0, spells known, spells per day, armor & weapon profs.)


Basically, what kind of a beast will he be?

Can we play it as a front liner?

On a related note, can we mod/eeKeeper a Shaman to a Fighter multiclass?

Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shaman_(3.5e_Class) is probably a good place to start looking for possible unconfirmed answers.

    They tend to follow the same attack bonuses of the priest classes, so if you can front line a druid, you can front line a shaman, however it isnt their primary role.

    They are proficient in all simple weapons (in 2e terms, they will probably share the druid weapons minus scimitar if I had to guess) and light armours (so leathers)

    They seem to get +1 AC at fifth level

    At later levels (18) they develop natural regeneration.

    There spells are cast like a sorcerers spell (the wiki says they do not need to prepare spells) but checks both the Con and Wis of the caster. If the Con is lower than the spell level + 10, the caster can take backlash damage with achance of the spell failing.

    It will be interesting to see how Beamdog incorporates the Totem Staff with Shamans though, as many of the classes abilities are tied to it.
  • NatregNatreg Member Posts: 100
    Shouldn't it be based on the Shaman from 2nd edition? There is a Shaman on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman_(accessory) and another on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player's_Option:_Spells_&_Magic
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015
    We really have no idea which, if any, of the many PnP versions of Shaman the SoD class most resembles.

    However, we do know they share "most" of their spells and item usabilities with druids:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/670409/#Comment_670409

    We also have confirmation that it isn't implemented as a druid kit under the hood, so it wouldn't be possible to eeKeeper a Shaman/Fighter multi or dual class.

    Based on a screenshot, the spirit summoning ability appears to be a toggle, similar to turn undead. You toggle it on, the shaman dances on the spot, and spirits appear. From the same screenshot, they also appear to be able to detect traps.

    If I had to guess, they will get 1d6 hit dice, making them less effective front liners than druids.
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    The shaman is about the same as a rogue or druid. You can use it as a spellcaster or as a second liner. I wouldn't really use it as a tank. No multiclass possible even with Keeper.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited August 2015
    Or to put it another way enemies will get plenty of opportunity to check out your cool dance skills. No need to stand too close though. :)
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    Will there be a "change dance" opcode :)
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    elminster said:

    Or to put it another way enemies will get plenty of opportunity to check out your cool dance skills. No need to stand too close though. :)

    Anyone else seeing Shaman and Bard boogie-woogie combos?!
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    I'm kind of curious what dances Shamans can pull off. Ikariotikos? Sean-nós dance? Slängpolska? Maybe a Foxtrot? Or even Cha-Cha-Cha? :p
  • valamyrvalamyr Member Posts: 130
    > No multiclass possible even with Keeper.

    Sad panda. If we can have Mage/Clerics, we should be able to have Sorcerer/Shamans.

    But I guess hardcoded limitations.
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  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    valamyr said:

    >
    Sad panda. If we can have Mage/Clerics, we should be able to have Sorcerer/Shamans.

    PALADIN/Sorcerer/Shamans!

    There. Fixed it for you.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    Paladin/Sorcerer/Shaman/Monks!
  • HarkHark Member Posts: 6
    Dee said:

    I enjoy the implication that that last example involves a character who is actually more than one monk. :)

    Well yeah, the holy mount and all summons are also monks.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Dee said:

    I enjoy the implication that that last example involves a character who is actually more than one monk. :)

    Actually, that reminds me: we need PLURAL CLASSES.

    You can dual-class.
    You can multi-class.

    Now, you can plural-class.

    Don't be a Fighter/Thief, be Thieves.

    Don't be a Illusionist/Cleric, be Illusionists. (... which all Illusionists are.)


    e.g. "Monks" class progresses more slowly in its primary classes than a single class Monk, but it makes up for it by calling upon the abilities of BOTH of its classes.
  • Manveru123Manveru123 Member Posts: 52
    Why is it such a secret anyway? It's hard to get hyped about a class I know nothing about :(
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    Will there be a "change dance" opcode :)

    Yes, actually, it isn't even a new opcode.
    !
  • valamyrvalamyr Member Posts: 130

    valamyr said:

    If we can have Mage/Clerics, we should be able to have Sorcerer/Shamans.

    Why? In any D&D game, you can have whatever options the DM says you can have, based on the DM's decisions about canon, lore, and rules.

    "I should be able to do whatever I want" has never been true in any game of any sort.

    (I'm actually not trying to be harsh, though I suspect it may come across that way in the cold medium of the internet. Just pointing out a logical problem in the quoted statement.)
    Because Sorcerers are a logical Mage subclass (and might as well be a Mage kit TBH) and Shamans are a logical Cleric and/or Druid subclass. It would be natural to share multi and dual classing option with their sister class.

    Sorcerers would probably have been made a Mage kit at the very beginning if it had not been more trouble than simply making them a heavily hardcoded class (an issue we never been able to really circumvent).

    Also simply because I enjoy multi-class characters. And how that has to do with real life, DM'd games is beyond me. This is a video game, the rules are simply different and ideally should be as moddable and flexible as possible.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Shaman a "logical Cleric or Druid subclass"?!

    Hoe do you come to that conclusion? You could argue that they are a logical Thief subclass, since they can detect traps, or a logical Bard subclass, since they have awesome dance moves. In truth, it isn't anyone's subclass.

    Beamdog is the DM for SoD, so it's up to them to decide on the house rules.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Shaman is indeed considered a "Priest" subclass within the official AD&D second edition PnP rules. Just like Clerics, Mystics, Druids and other specialty priests are considered "Priests" in AD&D as well. Similarly, Thieves and Bards are part of the "Rogue" class group. Mages and Sorcerers are included in the Wizard class group. And the Warrior group consists of Fighters, Rangers, Paladins and Mother-In-Laws. Well, maybe not the last one. But you get the idea.


    But the question we should be asking here is this: "Who are the better dancers? Shamans, Blades, or Shadowdancers?" :p
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015
    There are no sorcerers in 2nd edition, so they can't be a subclass of wizard. 3rd edition doesn't have subclasses.

    We don't know that this shaman has anything to do with any of the multiple 2nd edition versions.
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  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862

    Shaman is indeed considered a "Priest" subclass within the official AD&D second edition PnP rules. Just like Clerics, Mystics, Druids and other specialty priests are considered "Priests" in AD&D as well. Similarly, Thieves and Bards are part of the "Rogue" class group. Mages and Sorcerers are included in the Wizard class group. And the Warrior group consists of Fighters, Rangers, Paladins and Mother-In-Laws. Well, maybe not the last one. But you get the idea.


    But the question we should be asking here is this: "Who are the better dancers? Shamans, Blades, or Shadowdancers?" :p

    Mother-in-law is a dragon, and dragons (as most creatures) usually go by the warrior group, unless specifically noted differently. So you are right.

    About the question: shadowdancers couldn't be seen, and blades couldn't be survived and told about. So the shaman remains.
  • AndrewFoleyAndrewFoley Member Posts: 744
    edited August 2015

    But the question we should be asking here is this: "Who are the better dancers? Shamans, Blades, or Shadowdancers?" :p

    Shamans. They *always* bring in an audience.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768

    Finally, regarding multiclasses: I do at least expect it to be possible for modders to create a bard kit with the Shaman Dance ability. Shaman Dance, + (reduced) wizard spellcasting, + hit dice in between d4 and d8, = pretty close to a Shaman/Mage multiclass. :sunglasses:

    I hope a modder can add the dance ability to a necromancer, then we can do this:

    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+1/140
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875

    Shaman is indeed considered a "Priest" subclass within the official AD&D second edition PnP rules. Just like Clerics, Mystics, Druids and other specialty priests are considered "Priests" in AD&D as well. Similarly, Thieves and Bards are part of the "Rogue" class group. Mages and Sorcerers are included in the Wizard class group. And the Warrior group consists of Fighters, Rangers, Paladins and Mother-In-Laws. Well, maybe not the last one. But you get the idea.


    But the question we should be asking here is this: "Who are the better dancers? Shamans, Blades, or Shadowdancers?" :p

    Mother-in-law is a dragon, and dragons (as most creatures) usually go by the warrior group, unless specifically noted differently. So you are right.

    About the question: shadowdancers couldn't be seen, and blades couldn't be survived and told about. So the shaman remains.
    Blades would be really popular in the afterlife, though.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    One thing I've thought about recently is the fact that it would be better if the shaman class was designed tbe way that this class stays balanced through all the levels, starting right at the level 1.

    SoD will be for characters of the higher level than the first levels of experience but while developing the class a thought or two must be spent on "how does this class look at the very start and in the middle of BG1" because the shaman class will eventually come to BG1. I'm sure people woulnd't approve if there was a problem with a shaman in BG1 in a sense there's a problem with a low-level monk in BG1EE (the most important of which is inability to get +1 fists under the level cap of BG1EE).

    But while an XP cap for BGEE couldn't be changed and while a monk couldn't be changed because it has come from BG2, the shaman class is being developed now, so there're all possibilies to test everything.

    The same situation is with a "shaman in BG2" too.

    I still remember the level of a debate about shadowdancers when they first were put to BGEE by a patch and the subsequent changes. I'm sure the developers remember it too and this is why they think about a shaman class not only from SoD perspective but also from the perspective of the whole game, from Candlekeep to ToB.
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