IWD has better story than PoE? What? IWD has *some* story, but it's very simple and generic. I would recommend playing through it though. Before jumping to Pillars of Eternity, you should also play Planescape: Torment, since PoE is heavily influenced by BG, IWD and PS:T. You will appreciate the game more, if you've played those 3 prior to it.
As for NWN, I agree with @deltago. I haven't been able to complete it myself recently. The engine is too clunky in my opinion.
Yeah, in order to better understand PoE, one has to play IE games of old. Especially IWD, since Josh Sawyer was involved into making it.
PoE has better graphics, it's a brand-new game, has achievements on Steam, etc etc. But only those who played and enjoyed BG and IWD see a special beauty in getting a modern IE-like game.
Pillars of Eternity doesn't use D&D rules, it has it's own system. It has some quirks, but you can get used to it fairly easily. Overall very enjoyable game with beautiful world to explore, some tough battles and interesting dialogue, characters and story.
Planescape: Torment is a beast, one of a kind. It uses the same ruleset as Baldur's Gate. The thing that makes it stand out (and above) the rest is the heavy focus on dialogues and descriptions. It's the opposite of Icewind Dale, where there is the focus on fighting. In PS:T it's better to be smart than strong. The setting (Planescape) is simply amazing, there are some really unsual beings and rules e.g. beliefs can change and create worlds as well as destroy them, portals everywhere to any plane of existance.
Add to that a cast of original characters like floating skull, a tiefling, a succubus and a living armor. I would recommend PS:T to everyone that enjoys RPGs, since it has probably the best story ever. Some call it an interactive novel, since there's a lot a of reading. You should definately try it, as it can change the way you think about the world and life.
NWN was a great game-engine for its time, but the strength lies in the many, many, mods and user generated content - the game was essentially designed to be a host for user content, with the original campaign as a simple example of what might be possible, and is not really that interesting.
NWN2 was derided for being very buggy at launch, and a real performance hog, but the out-the-box campaign was a lot more fun - I just started another play through myself. Not as replayable as the BG series, but certainly a strong candidate in the chasing pack.
My new replay has reminded me not to set the screen resolution about 1920x1080 though, frame rate drops from fluid and free-flowing to less than 1fps just trying to play the logo intro movie! (And no, it will not skip frames!)
Can't speak to IWD(EE) or PoE, although both sound like interesting games much closer in gameplay style to the BGs.
You are given a reason to adventure in IWD, where in PoE there is nothing that makes you care about solving the main quest right from the get go. The main story is one of the main flaws with PoE, it isn't compelling enough for casual gamers to follow it.
Before I chime in, what are you looking for in a game? What elements made you choose those three games (and why not NWN2)?
With a little more information about what you liked about BG and what you expect from another game, I'm sure that there's a lot of good advice we can offer.
@the_spyder im sorry I meant to include them all (NWN1&2), when I get a game I usually want the sequels too.
I like the older look and feel, I also like the story line so far, I like having a party with me, I feel like I'm actually involved in BG.
I've heard the NWN games are clunky so I'm fearful of that, I heard iwds are good games, I've heard conflicting things about poe, and I've heard good things about planescape torment.
I like the older look and feel, I also like the story line so far, I like having a party with me, I feel like I'm actually involved in BG.
From that, I'd say go for PoE. In IWD, all of the party is created by you, meaning you don't get any story or interaction between the characters, so if you're after a party with personalities and backgrounds, IWD won't give you that. It's literally a case of "create your own party, then hack-and-slash your way through the campaign". It's not a bad game, but if you want to feel involved, it's not the best for that.
NWN on its own isn't much good, but some of the community made modules/campaigns you can find are pretty amazing, so it may be worth it for that. The menu system in those games feels clunky at first, but you get used to it...its real strength, though, is in multiplayer. That may not be your thing, but personally, I enjoyed playing NWN2 on an online server for a long time (some people still run servers in a Persistent World style - so far as I know, NWN1 and 2 are the only games where you can do that and get a deep, rich, roleplaying experience; every other MMO is all about action, powergaming, and super-high levels).
IWD is (more or less) the same engine as BG (2). If you like the look of that engine, IWD is a good choice. But be aware that IWD is more or less a dungeon crawl. There are no joinable NPCs and the "Story" is pretty much linear. At each stage of the game you are told where to go next and there's very little in the way of twists and turns in the game. If you are a fan of the engine and the D&D rules, IWD is a good choice.
NWN (1&2) is a different animal altogether. A lot of people will complain about the blocky graphics particularly of NWN1, but generally of both games. And rightly so. The graphics portion did not age well considering how beautiful games are today, and how wonderful the Isometric BG games looked. However....
NWN1 has a HUGE community made content base to draw upon. There are literally thousand and thousands of modules out there to play ranging from quite poor in quality all the way up to EXTREMELY well done (and some might say better than professionally made games). The strength of NWN1 is in it's modability. If you have a mind and the temperament, you can make your own adventures quite easily. And there are joinable NPC characters, though you only get 2 at a time. But you do get Hordes of the Underdark as part of the campaign, so bonus.
NWN2 was a significant step forward in the graphics department, and brought the game more fully into 3E rules. Again this is a HUGELY modable game and there are still quite a significant number of moders out there creating new content. There are also Persistent worlds (there are a few for NWN1 as well) where you can play more or less a MMO style game without the fee or the hype. The learning curve for modding is quite a bit steeper than NWN1, but it is not insurmountable. And the modding community has done a LOT in the way of adding Prestige classes and spells and skills that didn't exist in the original release.
NWN2 also brought in a much more 'party focused' game play. You can once again have 6 (??) characters in your party, and they provide a decent selection of NPCs to choose from. If you play the original campaign, the feel is much more 'BG' style focused and although it doesn't reach that level of greatness it is still fun. Some say that the expansion "Mask of the Betrayer" is variably Significantly better (or the worst thing ever depending on your point of view). And the final installment of Storm of Zehir is more an exploration style game on the order of BG1 (esque).
Both games launched with more than their fair share of technical issues and camera angle complaints etc... Quite a lot of that has been fixed (either by patches or significantly more by amateur enthusiasts) and although there are still a few game breaking issues, the vast majority of your gaming experience will not be overly hindered by technology issues. As a side note, in Mask of the Betrayer, you can even download a 'Fix' for the 'Hunger' mechanic.
As far as Pillars is concerned, I never finished the game (quite what that says for how good it is is up to you). It "FELT" like an updated Baldur's gate game. I do feel like they tried to split the difference between BG and IWD in that you 'Can' hire NPCs, but you can also create your own characters. The rules are different from BG, but not the feel of the game. Graphically it is superior to any of the other games mentioned, but if you are only looking for eye candy, there are even better still games out there.
You may also consider the original gold box Pool of Radiance games, but be aware that these are REALLY OLD games and the graphics are NOT a reason to play the game.
Another game mentioned above is Planescape: Torment. This is another game based on the BG engine, however....... PST is MUCH more story driven than the other games. And it isn't 'Forgotten realms' style woods and dungeons and tombs etc... It is actually a walk through the planes. It is rather an eclectic taste. Those that like the game, LOVE it and claim it is the best thing in the universe. For some, it is so different that it is not fun to play. I do not claim that either side is 'Right', merely comment that the division exists. Just for your consideration.
Another game to seriously consider is Temple of Elemental Evil. This is by far the most faithful adaptation of the turn based D&D games into a video game. And it looks on a similar order to Baldur's gate (though my subjective opinion is it is BETTER than BG visually).
ToEE is also a bit of a dungeon crawl, like IWD. There are only a hand full of NPC joinable characters and for the most part you create your own party. Also, the story isn't exactly Tolstoy or anything.
In deference to another thread, here and only here does alignment play a significant impact to your game. Your opening actually depends on the alignment of your party and so to does the interaction of at least a few of the NPCs.
Also note that ToEE was VERY unfinished when it was launched for reasons that I won't go into here. Playing the game stock as is you probably won't get far without encountering MAJOR issues. There is a community made patch by the folks over in Co8 that really brings the game into playability.
My personal and subjective opinion is that ToEE is the most fun unless you are into modding. I'd pick ToEE over IWD any day of the week.
Thank you all , I definitely got a decision to make unfortunately I'm no closer to the answer ahaha. I guess with anything I'm torn between iwd games and poe for now, the only thing that hinders me is that poe has lots of course words so I hear.
@Erg - thanks very much for that. I do remember that some mods for NWN opened up the party limit.
One of the truly great things about NWN is even if you aren't a modder, there are so many mods out there for free that you could literally spend years of game time playing just them.
And there is a NWN2 persistent world called 'The Sword Coast Chronicles' that actually represents the same area as BG1 in quite a lot of loving detail. I sunk a few hundred hours of my time into that and don't regret a minute of it.
As far as ToEE, I thought it was awesome and about as much fun as I've ever had in a video game. It is certainly in my top 10 short list of all time favorite games. So I guess fun is relative.
so in poe do the party members talk to each other? Can they romance or? Thanks again.
They do talk, but there's no romance, unfortunately.
@the_spyder You mean that Baldur's gate one? Yeah, I've seen that one...it's okay, but a little too high level for my taste (I prefer lower level gameplay). The one I played on for a long time is called Tales of Moonsea, and is set in the city of Phlan. There's a smaller player base, and lower average level, and regular GMs who help run stuff, so a lot of adventure, intrigue, and plot defining moments happen on that server.
You are given a reason to adventure in IWD, where in PoE there is nothing that makes you care about solving the main quest right from the get go. The main story is one of the main flaws with PoE, it isn't compelling enough for casual gamers to follow it.
This is purely a matter of taste. I don't like being pulled to do something, I prefer discovering the world and story myself. Actually, I was very intrigued by the beginning of PoE and wanted to know more about what happened. I feel that the story in IWD is just an excuse for player to fight his way through the whole game, it's awesome for multiplayer though.
So, I would say it's more like: simplicity/clarity vs vagueness/complexity. Both are fine, it depends on the player, which one he/she prefers.
@kristaok Just pick one of the titles that interest you the most, or roll a die to determine, which should you play first. You can go for a chronological order as well.
I feel that the story in IWD is just an excuse for player to fight his way through the whole game, it's awesome for multiplayer though.
I rather suspect that is exactly what it was for, an excuse for the player to go out and bash monsters. IWD was basically a dungeon crawl as I've said before. Not much in the way of story but loads of crypts and dungeons to explore. In that I think it serves a purpose, but I definitely see how people separate it conceptually from the BG series for that reason alone.
Comments
It has aged better than NWN
and if you get the EE version, you get some nifty cool kits to play with
PoE is good but has completely different rule sets from BG, where IWD has the same.
Better story from IWD than both of them
NWN was known more for its Community made modules and Persistent Worlds, but you usually have to hunt down old files to get it them to work.
As for NWN, I agree with @deltago. I haven't been able to complete it myself recently. The engine is too clunky in my opinion.
PoE has better graphics, it's a brand-new game, has achievements on Steam, etc etc. But only those who played and enjoyed BG and IWD see a special beauty in getting a modern IE-like game.
Graphics: PoE > IWD >> NWN
Combat: IWD > PoE = NWN
Story: NWN:HotU > PoE > IWD > NWN:OC
Planescape: Torment is a beast, one of a kind. It uses the same ruleset as Baldur's Gate. The thing that makes it stand out (and above) the rest is the heavy focus on dialogues and descriptions. It's the opposite of Icewind Dale, where there is the focus on fighting. In PS:T it's better to be smart than strong. The setting (Planescape) is simply amazing, there are some really unsual beings and rules e.g. beliefs can change and create worlds as well as destroy them, portals everywhere to any plane of existance.
Add to that a cast of original characters like floating skull, a tiefling, a succubus and a living armor. I would recommend PS:T to everyone that enjoys RPGs, since it has probably the best story ever. Some call it an interactive novel, since there's a lot a of reading. You should definately try it, as it can change the way you think about the world and life.
NWN2 was derided for being very buggy at launch, and a real performance hog, but the out-the-box campaign was a lot more fun - I just started another play through myself. Not as replayable as the BG series, but certainly a strong candidate in the chasing pack.
My new replay has reminded me not to set the screen resolution about 1920x1080 though, frame rate drops from fluid and free-flowing to less than 1fps just trying to play the logo intro movie! (And no, it will not skip frames!)
Can't speak to IWD(EE) or PoE, although both sound like interesting games much closer in gameplay style to the BGs.
You are given a reason to adventure in IWD, where in PoE there is nothing that makes you care about solving the main quest right from the get go. The main story is one of the main flaws with PoE, it isn't compelling enough for casual gamers to follow it.
With a little more information about what you liked about BG and what you expect from another game, I'm sure that there's a lot of good advice we can offer.
I like the older look and feel, I also like the story line so far, I like having a party with me, I feel like I'm actually involved in BG.
I've heard the NWN games are clunky so I'm fearful of that, I heard iwds are good games, I've heard conflicting things about poe, and I've heard good things about planescape torment.
NWN on its own isn't much good, but some of the community made modules/campaigns you can find are pretty amazing, so it may be worth it for that. The menu system in those games feels clunky at first, but you get used to it...its real strength, though, is in multiplayer. That may not be your thing, but personally, I enjoyed playing NWN2 on an online server for a long time (some people still run servers in a Persistent World style - so far as I know, NWN1 and 2 are the only games where you can do that and get a deep, rich, roleplaying experience; every other MMO is all about action, powergaming, and super-high levels).
IWD is (more or less) the same engine as BG (2). If you like the look of that engine, IWD is a good choice. But be aware that IWD is more or less a dungeon crawl. There are no joinable NPCs and the "Story" is pretty much linear. At each stage of the game you are told where to go next and there's very little in the way of twists and turns in the game. If you are a fan of the engine and the D&D rules, IWD is a good choice.
NWN (1&2) is a different animal altogether. A lot of people will complain about the blocky graphics particularly of NWN1, but generally of both games. And rightly so. The graphics portion did not age well considering how beautiful games are today, and how wonderful the Isometric BG games looked. However....
NWN1 has a HUGE community made content base to draw upon. There are literally thousand and thousands of modules out there to play ranging from quite poor in quality all the way up to EXTREMELY well done (and some might say better than professionally made games). The strength of NWN1 is in it's modability. If you have a mind and the temperament, you can make your own adventures quite easily. And there are joinable NPC characters, though you only get 2 at a time. But you do get Hordes of the Underdark as part of the campaign, so bonus.
NWN2 was a significant step forward in the graphics department, and brought the game more fully into 3E rules. Again this is a HUGELY modable game and there are still quite a significant number of moders out there creating new content. There are also Persistent worlds (there are a few for NWN1 as well) where you can play more or less a MMO style game without the fee or the hype. The learning curve for modding is quite a bit steeper than NWN1, but it is not insurmountable. And the modding community has done a LOT in the way of adding Prestige classes and spells and skills that didn't exist in the original release.
NWN2 also brought in a much more 'party focused' game play. You can once again have 6 (??) characters in your party, and they provide a decent selection of NPCs to choose from. If you play the original campaign, the feel is much more 'BG' style focused and although it doesn't reach that level of greatness it is still fun. Some say that the expansion "Mask of the Betrayer" is variably Significantly better (or the worst thing ever depending on your point of view). And the final installment of Storm of Zehir is more an exploration style game on the order of BG1 (esque).
Both games launched with more than their fair share of technical issues and camera angle complaints etc... Quite a lot of that has been fixed (either by patches or significantly more by amateur enthusiasts) and although there are still a few game breaking issues, the vast majority of your gaming experience will not be overly hindered by technology issues. As a side note, in Mask of the Betrayer, you can even download a 'Fix' for the 'Hunger' mechanic.
As far as Pillars is concerned, I never finished the game (quite what that says for how good it is is up to you). It "FELT" like an updated Baldur's gate game. I do feel like they tried to split the difference between BG and IWD in that you 'Can' hire NPCs, but you can also create your own characters. The rules are different from BG, but not the feel of the game. Graphically it is superior to any of the other games mentioned, but if you are only looking for eye candy, there are even better still games out there.
You may also consider the original gold box Pool of Radiance games, but be aware that these are REALLY OLD games and the graphics are NOT a reason to play the game.
Another game mentioned above is Planescape: Torment. This is another game based on the BG engine, however....... PST is MUCH more story driven than the other games. And it isn't 'Forgotten realms' style woods and dungeons and tombs etc... It is actually a walk through the planes. It is rather an eclectic taste. Those that like the game, LOVE it and claim it is the best thing in the universe. For some, it is so different that it is not fun to play. I do not claim that either side is 'Right', merely comment that the division exists. Just for your consideration.
ToEE is also a bit of a dungeon crawl, like IWD. There are only a hand full of NPC joinable characters and for the most part you create your own party. Also, the story isn't exactly Tolstoy or anything.
In deference to another thread, here and only here does alignment play a significant impact to your game. Your opening actually depends on the alignment of your party and so to does the interaction of at least a few of the NPCs.
Also note that ToEE was VERY unfinished when it was launched for reasons that I won't go into here. Playing the game stock as is you probably won't get far without encountering MAJOR issues. There is a community made patch by the folks over in Co8 that really brings the game into playability.
My personal and subjective opinion is that ToEE is the most fun unless you are into modding. I'd pick ToEE over IWD any day of the week.
[spoiler=Enigma Island Part 3]
One of the truly great things about NWN is even if you aren't a modder, there are so many mods out there for free that you could literally spend years of game time playing just them.
And there is a NWN2 persistent world called 'The Sword Coast Chronicles' that actually represents the same area as BG1 in quite a lot of loving detail. I sunk a few hundred hours of my time into that and don't regret a minute of it.
As far as ToEE, I thought it was awesome and about as much fun as I've ever had in a video game. It is certainly in my top 10 short list of all time favorite games. So I guess fun is relative.
@the_spyder You mean that Baldur's gate one? Yeah, I've seen that one...it's okay, but a little too high level for my taste (I prefer lower level gameplay). The one I played on for a long time is called Tales of Moonsea, and is set in the city of Phlan. There's a smaller player base, and lower average level, and regular GMs who help run stuff, so a lot of adventure, intrigue, and plot defining moments happen on that server.
So, I would say it's more like: simplicity/clarity vs vagueness/complexity. Both are fine, it depends on the player, which one he/she prefers.
@kristaok Just pick one of the titles that interest you the most, or roll a die to determine, which should you play first. You can go for a chronological order as well.
PS:T is amazing.
I'd take both of those over IWD and NWN1. Haven't played POE yet so no opinion there.