Idea for a wizard slayer 'fix'
Grum
Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
For me, the wizard slayer thematically doesn't make any sense. He can't use 'magical' items like potions, rings, necklaces or belts, but he can wield magical swords and wear magic armor. That just doesn't add up in my mind.
So I had this idea, and for those more mechanically smart, would this work?
Wizard Slayer:
* Wizard slayers cannot use any magic items of any kind (no weapons, armor, helms, rings, necklaces, potions, etc), except for healing potions and antidotes.
* When wielding normal weapons, at lvl 8 the weapon counts as being +1. This increases to +2 at lvl 12, +3 at lvl 18, +4 at lvl 22 and +5 at lvl 26.
* When wearing normal armor, at lvl 8 the armor counts as being +1. This increases to +2 at lvl 12, +3 at lvl 18, +3 at lvl 22 and +5 at lvl 26.
* Wizard slayers have bonus to magic resistance of 1% for each level and in addition, starting from lvl 20, they gain 5% magical resistance every second lvl.
* Every successful hit also lowers the chance by 10% to successfully cast spells.
* Wizard slayers' attacks always count as being both magical and nonmagical.
* Wizard slayers gain the skill 'detect illusion.' They get 5 ability points per level, which is automatically added (much like how a ranger's hide and sneak skills automatically increase).
With this, wizard slayers would really be magic free. They would also be viable, as like monks their basic attacks would increase. They wouldn't be at the mercy of spell casters who can use illusionary magic to wreck wizard slayers, but unlike inquisitors they'd need to take time to actually use a skill to see through it. And best of all, they'd remain warriors with magic resistance and anti-magic attacks.
Would this be a viable change to wizard slayers, and would it make them worth taking?
So I had this idea, and for those more mechanically smart, would this work?
Wizard Slayer:
* Wizard slayers cannot use any magic items of any kind (no weapons, armor, helms, rings, necklaces, potions, etc), except for healing potions and antidotes.
* When wielding normal weapons, at lvl 8 the weapon counts as being +1. This increases to +2 at lvl 12, +3 at lvl 18, +4 at lvl 22 and +5 at lvl 26.
* When wearing normal armor, at lvl 8 the armor counts as being +1. This increases to +2 at lvl 12, +3 at lvl 18, +3 at lvl 22 and +5 at lvl 26.
* Wizard slayers have bonus to magic resistance of 1% for each level and in addition, starting from lvl 20, they gain 5% magical resistance every second lvl.
* Every successful hit also lowers the chance by 10% to successfully cast spells.
* Wizard slayers' attacks always count as being both magical and nonmagical.
* Wizard slayers gain the skill 'detect illusion.' They get 5 ability points per level, which is automatically added (much like how a ranger's hide and sneak skills automatically increase).
With this, wizard slayers would really be magic free. They would also be viable, as like monks their basic attacks would increase. They wouldn't be at the mercy of spell casters who can use illusionary magic to wreck wizard slayers, but unlike inquisitors they'd need to take time to actually use a skill to see through it. And best of all, they'd remain warriors with magic resistance and anti-magic attacks.
Would this be a viable change to wizard slayers, and would it make them worth taking?
2
Comments
Implementing the magic weapon thing--in which they couldn't use a magic weapon, but normal weapons would strike as magical weapons--would require a workaround. Create a set of weapons with +1 to +5 enchantments but no bonuses, all of which can only be used by wizard slayers, and cannot be sold. Design a set of .2da files based on the Enchanted Weapon spell (the SR version would be better) and fill it with custom spells that summon the weapons. Impose a gold cost for creating each weapon. Then give wizard slayers an innate spell based on Enchanted Weapon, which allows them to create a weapon with an enchantment based on their level (maybe +1 at level, then another +1 for every 5 or 6 levels). They can then use their own magical weapons, without creating an infinite gold exploit. To keep characters with UAI from using the weapons, we could tweak the UAI spell. Also, we'd have to tweak all magic weapons and armor to be unusable by wizard slayers, which would take a lot.
An attack can't be both magical and nonmagical. The WS would have to switch to normal, non-WS weapons to bypass PFMW.
I wouldn't give them AC bonuses. No reason a WS is better at wearing full plate than another fighter.
Wizard Slayers can't use Detect Illuisions. They won't have that button. You can, however, give them an at-will ability that removes illusion spells and bypasses SI: Divination, and has a chance of success that's based on level (maybe 20% plus 3% per level, so it's not so weak at low levels).
I would give +1 Armor AC at lvl8 and lvl18 (maybe another at 26, not sure) and +1 shield AC at lvl12 and lvl22
+5 to only armor is too op but that way they can keep on par whit warriors using rings or amulets boosting AC and shields.
I guess my idea (which is basically the same as yours) is to make the WS slowly progression without the use of items, gaining abilitites on level up which enhances her/his ability to combat mages (and to some extent, also other non-mage enemies). But the focus should be anti-mage abilities which is why I prefer resistances vs elements to a higher AC.
Perhaps some kind of "rage" ability which on levels add saving rolls? Or maybe a summable shield (though it may feel to much like 'magic' to summon a shield?) which gets better and better per level?
1: +1 to saves (or maybe only save vs spell?)
5: +1 to saves and 10% resistances to magic fire/lightning/cold/acid
8: +2 to saves and 10% resistances to magic fire/lightning/cold/acid
10: +2 to saves and 20% resistances to magic fire/lightning/cold/acid
etc..
Not adding AC but adding other abilities/resistances would make the WS a sub-par fighter in battles vs other fighter(kits) but better vs mages than other fighters(kits), at least that's how it should be. If a zerker is better than a WS fighting mages, then the kit is a failure.
A self-sustained WS, using only plain items without magic enhancements is intrigueing. No jewelry, no girdles, gauntlets or anything like that. Just you, your plain armor, your basic weapon and a plain shield, boosted by a massive will to kill any arcane user you encounter with a dedication bordering lunacy. Like a 'monk' almost
Immunity to sleep, fear and charm.
+1 saves every five levels.
Non detection non location (Just because)
I think it would make more sense, since its creation did not rely on arcane magic. Certain Dwarven axes, clerical maces, shields would be usable, and it's possible to do it in-game , you just have to check each item's description and make it able for wizard slayers should it be divine in nature.
Also, IMHO , I don't think that Wizard Slayers should get lots of immunities - I mean, do they hunt wizards because they know magic well enough to deflect it, or because they hold such strong prejudice against it? I agree that they should get cummulative saving throw bonuses, since resisting mind attacks and magical firepower require a strong mind and endurance. I also agree with the spell failure on hit, since it indicates their knowledge in avoiding the necessary gestures for a spell to occur.
OR, maybe wizard slayers rely on some kind of energy that it's unique to the class, such as a monk's "chi" energy?
As far as the vanilla game goes I think the best anti-wizard is the Inquisitor. Paladin saves and immunities + Carsomyr or Purifier + True Sight + that insane Dispel Magic = one dead mage. I actually don't bring Keldorn along anymore because he feels too cheesy to use.
I think the reason they don't use magic item is dogmatic and not some physical impossibility. Whatever sect they come from allows them to use magic weapon out of necessity, but they have to swear off everything else in exchange for their abilities. It's a bit like clerics having no sharp weapons.
Poison ain't no joke. It doesn't wipe out party or self buffs, like dispel magic does and it can totally dominate a combat. (Freeze ,slow opponents or interrupt spells as they grunt and take damage until they die while your poison delivery system 'Assassin or Blackguard' engages the next target.) Poisons also don't interfere with your own party member's illusions (Like true sight) and ignores mirror image, oh you got 9 images here have a poison attack, it lands and poisons (no miss chance if it succeeds in hitting the AC.) Stoneskins, whats that? Here have some poison!
In fact I'm in the middle of an Assassin run right now. I was inspired by some kid on this forum who did a You Tube video of an Assassin NPC mod (Vynd). I don't want to disparage the kid, but his analysis was pretty much set a few traps, back stab and straight up fight enemies and he didn't like to use poison and he thought an Assassin was OK.
So I'm running an Evil Party with an Assassin. It's all about traps, backstabs, poisons and camping until night so I can cloak myself much better. I must admit , I play most encounters and maps as a solo assassin with my party for support. In the cloakwood mines I hid my party and solo/assassin stalked Daveorn, it was just truly a murder . Daveorn could dimension door, but he never got another spell off.
Assassin + Boots of Speed = Dead Mages, and everything else except for golems, because everyone hates golems...