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Anyone knows of RPG's without humans, elves and dwarves in it?

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  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    There seems to be a long going trend of mixing up Science Fiction with Science Fantasy amongst the fanbase. I blame Arthur C. Clarke's third law. After all he was the one who started the "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" train-of-thought.

    No, it's because of pulp fiction giving anything that has to do with space or the future(/technology/robots) a "vulgar culture" stamp. Serious science fiction thus got grouped in with Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars in a science fiction ghetto because of superficial details rather than style of content.

    Science Fantasy

    You are replacing the wrong word. It's "science" that needs to be edited, not fiction. Fiction and fantasy are basically synonyms. Call it Space/Futuristic Fantasy or something else that makes sense instead.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    scriver wrote: »
    You are replacing the wrong word. It's "science" that needs to be edited, not fiction. Fiction and fantasy are basically synonyms. Call it Space/Futuristic Fantasy or something else that makes sense instead.
    Nah, Science Fantasy it is. Not to be confused with Fantastic Science. I'll stick to the widely recognized subgenre terms on this one. But thanks for your opinion on the subject. :)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,181
    edited April 2020
    scriver wrote: »
    You are replacing the wrong word. It's "science" that needs to be edited, not fiction. Fiction and fantasy are basically synonyms. Call it Space/Futuristic Fantasy or something else that makes sense instead.
    Nah, Science Fantasy it is. Not to be confused with Fantastic Science. I'll stick to the widely recognized subgenre terms on this one. But thanks for your opinion on the subject. :)

    Except that its NOT a sub genre. Every single time it comes up, its always, "That's not science fiction, that's science fantasy." Its an attempt by fans of hard sci-fi to to either ignore softer sci-fi works, or remove them from the genre altogether.


    @DragonKing Pretending that the Spanish genocide is worse than the British one is just flat out wrong. Genocide is always wrong and all genocides are equally as wrong. To imply otherwise is morally bankrupt and DANGEROUS.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,912
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @DragonKing Pretending that the Spanish genocide is worse than the British one is just flat out wrong. Genocide is always wrong and all genocides are equally as wrong. To imply otherwise is morally bankrupt and DANGEROUS.
    @ThacoBell
    Except at no point did I make any claims that X was worse than Y? Seems more like you're applying that to what I said. I said they had different purposes and reasoning that led to such action I never claimed one was either worse or better, nor did I claim one was more or less justified.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,181
    DragonKing wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @DragonKing Pretending that the Spanish genocide is worse than the British one is just flat out wrong. Genocide is always wrong and all genocides are equally as wrong. To imply otherwise is morally bankrupt and DANGEROUS.
    @ThacoBell
    Except at no point did I make any claims that X was worse than Y? Seems more like you're applying that to what I said. I said they had different purposes and reasoning that led to such action I never claimed one was either worse or better, nor did I claim one was more or less justified.

    Your post seemed to very strongly imply it. Since you failed to mention the british genocides, and when it was mentioned, you felt the need to again re-iterate the spanish genocides as different.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,912
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    DragonKing wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @DragonKing Pretending that the Spanish genocide is worse than the British one is just flat out wrong. Genocide is always wrong and all genocides are equally as wrong. To imply otherwise is morally bankrupt and DANGEROUS.
    @ThacoBell
    Except at no point did I make any claims that X was worse than Y? Seems more like you're applying that to what I said. I said they had different purposes and reasoning that led to such action I never claimed one was either worse or better, nor did I claim one was more or less justified.

    Your post seemed to very strongly imply it. Since you failed to mention the british genocides, and when it was mentioned, you felt the need to again re-iterate the spanish genocides as different.

    But it didn't because again none of my comments left about the subject left the topic of the reason for the action. Hence why I even took the time to even mention the failed colonization that came before James town and the reason why it failed. I'm sorry I don't insult your intelligence by needing to state, "oh by the way, genocide is bad." I assume all of us here already know and understand what genocide and the destruction it brings. But the topic wasn't, "is genocide good or bad/moral or immoral." But the topic, or what I was bringing to the table was not "that out come was bad." It was, "you see this out come? These two places both reached this outcome, correct? But the reasonimg, logic, and goals that lead to that outcome wasn't the same and that's something that's just as important as that out come.

    But you claimed the reasoning behind actions don't matter, the action just bad.

    That's what I don't get... It's like saying Jim Crow is bad, but don't bother trying to actually break it down, the actions and mindsets behind it all that ultimately led to the dismantling of it.

    It's the literal reason why or atleast my experience when I had to study the colonization of the new world, we didn't just go, "Spain and Britain genocided native Americans and it was bad, the end." No we had to understand the political climate of both those countries during the same time,everything from political persecution between then different branches of Christianity. To the economic expansion of Spain through Britain.

    There is no single broad brush strokes, no evil for the sake of evil. There's logic and reason, action and reaction. Very good, and very bad outcomes that comes from all of this and sometimes it all happens side by side.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Except that its NOT a sub genre. Every single time it comes up, its always, "That's not science fiction, that's science fantasy." Its an attempt by fans of hard sci-fi to to either ignore softer sci-fi works, or remove them from the genre altogether.
    ? Science Fantasy is regarded as an official subgenre of Fantasy (as well as Science Fiction, it being a hybrid subgenre and all), yes. Similar of how Dark Fantasy or even Hard Fantasy is (the equivalent of Hard Science Fiction). You may personally choose to disagree with this categorization. But that doesn't change the fact that it's indeed globally recognized as such.

    On a side note, I personally don't mind railing off a bit in this thread of mine. Although I would really appreciate getting more game recommendations without humans & Co. in them. That's the reason I created it after all. Just sayin'. :p

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,445
    edited April 2020
    Yeah I was going to say this is shooting wildly off. Also, while not exaaacctlyyy what you're asking for, I've been playing a lot of total war warhammer 2 (never played any other total war game except Shogun) and while the setting has all the basic fantasy races, the playable factions are high elves, dark elves, skaven (ratfolk), lizardmen, vampirates, tomb kings (not-egyptian skellingtons). I've been playing Skaven and almost all of the early game as Lord Skrolk has been Skaven Vs Lizards with vampirates and dark elves on the fringes. It's not exactly an RPG but has RPG elements (levels, gear, some story choices through world events) and doesn't exactly exclude the generic races but also Totally-Not-Aztec lizards with holy dinosaurs fighting ratmen with sniper rifles, gatling guns, and plague priests is kind of rad.

    Also Lizardmen being holy and part of the "order" side of things is really cool?

    Edit: Side note, I would LOVE a fantasy RPG with just furry races, like Armello but instead of a virtual board game with lite RPG elements make it a proper RPG.

    Kamigoroshi
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,912
    @Kamigoroshi
    I mean if you're specifically looking for rpgs, I can't help you. If you're fine with no rpgs then I don't ever there really being humans in eye of the dragon .

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    Also Lizardmen being holy and part of the "order" side of things is really cool?
    Yah, the Total War: Warhammer titles are also one of my stable games to go to. Rumours has it that Total War: Warhammer 3 will have the Serpent-Naga of Khuresh as a playable faction. I really hope that one will ring true. Especially since they'll make for a nice reptilian counterpart to the Lizardfolk - being worshipers of Chaos and all. Also, I love snakes! :heart:
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    Edit: Side note, I would LOVE a fantasy RPG with just furry races, like Armello but instead of a virtual board game with lite RPG elements make it a proper RPG.
    Sounds like you may enjoy playing Stories: The Path of Destinies and Omensight: Definitive Edition. They're also currently on sale, too.

    Vallmyr
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    scriver wrote: »
    You are replacing the wrong word. It's "science" that needs to be edited, not fiction. Fiction and fantasy are basically synonyms. Call it Space/Futuristic Fantasy or something else that makes sense instead.
    Nah, Science Fantasy it is. Not to be confused with Fantastic Science. I'll stick to the widely recognized subgenre terms on this one. But thanks for your opinion on the subject. :)

    But it sounds duuuuuuuuumb :s:s:s

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,181

    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Except that its NOT a sub genre. Every single time it comes up, its always, "That's not science fiction, that's science fantasy." Its an attempt by fans of hard sci-fi to to either ignore softer sci-fi works, or remove them from the genre altogether.
    ? Science Fantasy is regarded as an official subgenre of Fantasy (as well as Science Fiction, it being a hybrid subgenre and all), yes. Similar of how Dark Fantasy or even Hard Fantasy is (the equivalent of Hard Science Fiction). You may personally choose to disagree with this categorization. But that doesn't change the fact that it's indeed globally recognized as such.

    On a side note, I personally don't mind railing off a bit in this thread of mine. Although I would really appreciate getting more game recommendations without humans & Co. in them. That's the reason I created it after all. Just sayin'. :p

    Every single use I've ever seen of "Science Fantasy" is immiedietly preceeded by, "That's not science fiction." As I said before, the term was originally coined by people who only consider "hard" science fiction as science fiction.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    And as I also said before, it's perfectly fine to have your own opinion on this. Just as I do have mine. :)

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,626
    Phantom Brave. There is one ghost and one human, but most all other characters are non humans in some fashion. Very charming little game.

    Kamigoroshi
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,181
    And as I also said before, it's perfectly fine to have your own opinion on this. Just as I do have mine. :)

    My point is that its NOT an opinion. The term was conceived specifically as a derogatory term.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Phantom Brave. There is one ghost and one human, but most all other characters are non humans in some fashion. Very charming little game.
    I concur: Nippon Ichi games in general are pure gold. Same goes for Makai Kingdom and even the Prinny offshot franchise due to their sheer entertainment value! Their newer titles like The Witch and the Hundred Knight or Labyrinth of Refrain have way darker tone to them. But I can nevertheless appreciate the various witch characters as crucial part of the plot. :)

    @ThacoBell The crux of the matter is I recongize Science Fantasy nowadays as an helpful subgenre for authors and consumers alike. While it's easy to see that you feel the opposite. Our experiences with "Sci-Fa" clearly differ from one another - thus leading to different opinions. Let's leave it at that. We've been going in circles for long enough.
    Instead, give me more game recommendations. :p

    WarChiefZekeProont
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,626
    Phantom Brave. There is one ghost and one human, but most all other characters are non humans in some fashion. Very charming little game.
    I concur: Nippon Ichi games in general are pure gold. Same goes for Makai Kingdom and even the Prinny offshot franchise due to their sheer entertainment value! Their newer titles like The Witch and the Hundred Knight or Labyrinth of Refrain have way darker tone to them. But I can nevertheless appreciate the various witch characters as crucial part of the plot. :)

    @ThacoBell The crux of the matter is I recongize Science Fantasy nowadays as an helpful subgenre for authors and consumers alike. While it's easy to see that you feel the opposite. Our experiences with "Sci-Fa" clearly differ from one another - thus leading to different opinions. Let's leave it at that. We've been going in circles for long enough.
    Instead, give me more game recommendations. :p

    Makai Kingdom is my personal favorite of the NI games, only in that and Disgaea 2 did I take the time to get in the thousands of levels and grind out the hidden content. Really enjoy the combat robot/vehicle system and how they level up with use, along with the wacky weapon choices like the balloon or the wrench.

    Kamigoroshi
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,134
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Another good example of a hard sci-fi setting is Mass Effect ...
    Oh, sure. You delve into ancient ruins for lost knowledge and wondrous artifacts beyond the ability of modern civilization to reproduce. You face the looming threat of ancient monstrous necromancers sending their undead army to invade, after thousands of years quiescent. Travel relies on a network of portals older than any living civilization. Your team wields space magic alongside guns in combat. The Asari are a race of space elves, taking a dominant role in galactic society through their long lives, their mastery of space magic, and their superior knowledge of the ancient technological secrets.

    Mass Effect runs on fantasy tropes. It ties the magic to a single element and explains it enough to become technology in most cases, but that doesn't erase the fantasy flavor.

    ProontKamigoroshi
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