the party are coded to follow "the leader". In NWN1 that was always the PC, so it was simple enough. However in NWN2 whenever you switch characters everyone else in the party recieves an order to follow the new party leader, and this may override whatever instruction you gave them previously (depending on how far away they are and what their follow distance is set to). You can turn this off by issuing a "hold position" order from two different characters (as the character issuing the order also needs to recieve it). However, you will have to remember to issue a follow order when it is time to move on.
But I have AI turned off! Nobody should be following anyone... or doing anything. When I want everyone to move, I just 'select all' and move the whole party where I want them to go.
So sad that it can't follow orders properly. Letting the AI run amok just means less careful combat, wasted spells, unused items, and spamming rests all the time to replenish those wasted spells and hit points. The engine has all the elements in place to be a real D&D game (i.e. a party of PCs adventuring). And if you fight it enough, it does work. The control/AI scheme just should have been designed to cooperate a bit more. This could be a great game if it cooperated instead of getting in your way. The difference is razor thin... but it's there.
If the AI where off completly the party wouldn't follow the main character out of combat. As I said, there is a way to make them do that.
But I disagree - in a REAL D&D game - i.e. PnP - each player controls ONE character, not six.
Yeah, the camera and the action processing AI user interface stuff is the game's biggest drawbacks for sure. Aggravated me to no end. No cure for it that I'm aware off, however. The game just never felt like it was made for controlling more than one character at heart.
To be fair, if a bunch of guys and gals want to play a game of D&D together, they can just play D&D together, no computer necessary. Giving a single player an experience that can approximate something like a D&D adventure is what makes CRPGs interesting (to me).
But NWN is a much closer approximation to a PnP game (you control one character, whilst the rest of the party do stupid things) than BG is (six players act as a well co-ordinated unit).
If the companions in NWN2 spammed random text like "U SUK" in chat, you really wouldn't be able to tell they weren't controlled by humans.
If the AI where off completly the party wouldn't follow the main character out of combat. As I said, there is a way to make them do that.
When this goes well, it works really really well and actually comes close to BG combat. The problem is not with the overall design (@Fardragon, please note)... the problem is that sometimes it inexplicably doesn't work. I'll select Elanee, click a healing spell from a quickbar, target Khelgar to heal him... then I select Neeshka to direct her arrow fire, and for no good reason Elanee heals Neeshka instead of Khelgar. It's stuff like that - actuall bugginess - that's driving me crazy.
There is nothing inexplicable about it. Elanee's AI sees that the current party leader is outside of her set follow distance, so aborts the currently queued action in order to move closer. With he queue now cleared she chooses a new action - heal the party leader - because the party leader is rated as a higher priority target.
It's behaving just the way NWN1's original programmers intended. Obsidian's attempts to cobble on Baldur's Gate style controls can't override the original engine design.
You can't turn off ALL the AI, some of it is hard-coded. Some things, such a follow-the-leader behaviour, still occur even in puppet mode.
Thus, whilst it is possible to jump into and directly control any party member, the other party members are not guaranteed to stand around and do nothing. Sometimes they will, but under certain circumstances (can't find a path to target is another one) the hard-coded AI will kick in.
And yes, the control is buggy (I never said it wasn't) - it's the stuff that Obsidian added to try and make it possible to play like BG. It doesn't work properly because it was cobbled onto a game engine that wasn't designed to work that way.
But if you accept that, and work with the engine in the way it actually works, rather than the way you would like it to work (or the way the manual suggests it should work), then the game is perfectly decent and playable.
The purpose of my posts are to try and help you get the most out of a game that you are clearly struggling with. I'm not zealously defending is - if you read my post history you will see I'm not really a fan. As for "downright absurd", the suggestion that something happens "inexplicably" is absurd. It's a computer, everything it does it does because that is what the code tells it to do.
@subtledoctor , It sounds like you're maybe starting to actually like this game, despite all the interface issues. It was kind of similar for me. I wanted to like it when it was first released, but the interface and the differences from BG and NWN 1 were a big turnoff. Like you, being fascinated with the character building possibilities kept me plugging away at it. In time, I got used to the quirks of the engine, and now it's one of my favorite games. Sometimes I get a new character build idea in my head and I just can't resist trying it out in the game. I replay NWN2 at least once a year, just like BG.
SoZ was actually a pretty nice expansion, but focused on the new game features at the expense of working a real story, much like the original NWN game. What I really wanted was a final expansion using the SoZ engine to create a story as compelling as MotB, or the original campaign.
Of course that will never happen... bad enough for WotC that the best D&D games currently available are in 2E; releasing a 3.5E game that's better than any existing 5E games would be a severe blow to their pushing the new system.
> Single-player campaign(s) controlling a full party
Dunno, it's one of the reasons why I enjoy NWN2 less than NWN. It's pretty hard to make a party-based game that doesn't end up being infuriatingly tedious. It's cool for the story, the banter and the tactical implications, but having to constantly rotate party members so as to not miss on any content and/or lose influence for no reason gets old pretty quickly.
As far as damage goes, I've found dual wielding vastly inferior to two-handed weapons. Sure, you get extra attacks, but you have to waste stat points on DEX, and you only get half the STR bonus to left-hand damage. Greatsword, on the other hand, not only gets one-and-half STR bonus, but Power Attack doubles for two-handed weapons as well. It gets further worse with damage reduction.
Going dex-based is not a good idea in OC given the amount of undead. SB will struggle a lot for the same reason (IS does not work against crit/sneak-immune enemies).
Using heavy weapons isn't very wise either: you can two-hand a medium weapon while still having the option of using a shield.
I discovered the Cleric class! What's this? Two free feats at first level?
I think you might've discovered the human race instead, because Clerics don't get a bonus fear at level one.
Besides the one feat everyone gets at start, the only ones who get chooseable bonus feats at level one are Humans, Stoutheart Halflings, and the Fighter class (where the selection is limited to combat feats).
@subtledoctor undead have no proper anatomy, I don’t see why it’s bonkers. It’s your game though, so whatever.
@scriver domains are pretty much free feats. It’s very common to dip a level of Cleric to get things like Evasion or Feint when there’s no other way of getting those.
Welcome to the world of xp penalties, unless you plan to keep all but 1 class similarly leveled throughout the campaign. That is the benefit of prestige classes - they do not trigger the multi classing xp penalties. That said, if your leveling plan is compatible, that sounds like a lot of fun.
@subtledoctor , If you started at first level as a cleric, that's your favored class (assuming you're human). You will have to keep your bard and fighter levels within one level of each other if you don't want to suffer the xp penalty for multi-classing non-favored classes. You're probably aware of that by now, but I thought a reminder wouldn't hurt.
I see @GreenWarlock already said pretty much the same thing.
I discovered the Cleric class! What's this? Two free feats at first level?
I think you might've discovered the human race instead, because Clerics don't get a bonus fear at level one.
Besides the one feat everyone gets at start, the only ones who get chooseable bonus feats at level one are Humans, Stoutheart Halflings, and the Fighter class (where the selection is limited to combat feats).
@Scriver, I'm pretty sure he's talking about choosing cleric domains that provide bonus feats. For example, if you roll a human cleric, you can take Luck Domain for free Luck of Heroes, and War Domain for a free Weapon Focus , and still have both your first level human feats free to choose. You start the game with four feats, possibly including two "first level only" feats.
The game doesn't enforce any rules about divine spheres of influence, so you can choose any domains you want with any deity. This fact is part of what puts the "Godzilla" in "Clericzilla".
Comments
But I disagree - in a REAL D&D game - i.e. PnP - each player controls ONE character, not six.
Whoa dude, that's racist. These are the dnd orca people:
Which is why it was obvious that he meant it in the context of computer games.
A CRPG that requires you to control six characters is less like the original game than a CRPG that gives you control of one.
If the companions in NWN2 spammed random text like "U SUK" in chat, you really wouldn't be able to tell they weren't controlled by humans.
It's behaving just the way NWN1's original programmers intended. Obsidian's attempts to cobble on Baldur's Gate style controls can't override the original engine design.
Thus, whilst it is possible to jump into and directly control any party member, the other party members are not guaranteed to stand around and do nothing. Sometimes they will, but under certain circumstances (can't find a path to target is another one) the hard-coded AI will kick in.
And yes, the control is buggy (I never said it wasn't) - it's the stuff that Obsidian added to try and make it possible to play like BG. It doesn't work properly because it was cobbled onto a game engine that wasn't designed to work that way.
But if you accept that, and work with the engine in the way it actually works, rather than the way you would like it to work (or the way the manual suggests it should work), then the game is perfectly decent and playable.
The purpose of my posts are to try and help you get the most out of a game that you are clearly struggling with. I'm not zealously defending is - if you read my post history you will see I'm not really a fan. As for "downright absurd", the suggestion that something happens "inexplicably" is absurd. It's a computer, everything it does it does because that is what the code tells it to do.
Dunno, it's one of the reasons why I enjoy NWN2 less than NWN. It's pretty hard to make a party-based game that doesn't end up being infuriatingly tedious. It's cool for the story, the banter and the tactical implications, but having to constantly rotate party members so as to not miss on any content and/or lose influence for no reason gets old pretty quickly.
Using heavy weapons isn't very wise either: you can two-hand a medium weapon while still having the option of using a shield.
Besides the one feat everyone gets at start, the only ones who get chooseable bonus feats at level one are Humans, Stoutheart Halflings, and the Fighter class (where the selection is limited to combat feats).
@scriver domains are pretty much free feats. It’s very common to dip a level of Cleric to get things like Evasion or Feint when there’s no other way of getting those.
I see @GreenWarlock already said pretty much the same thing.
The game doesn't enforce any rules about divine spheres of influence, so you can choose any domains you want with any deity. This fact is part of what puts the "Godzilla" in "Clericzilla".