@BelgarathMTH I share your feelings on this one, I have never really made it beyond the start of the spirit-eater mechanic.
It does draw a lot of praise from other players, and I do like playing the OC with the expanded content (new classes/races/feats/etc.) but can't get into that campaign myself.
One suggestion I may yet try is to create a new character directly for MotB, and NOT take them through the OC. Without that connection to the original party, nor being deeply invested in a character through the length and breadth of the OC, it might be possible to tackle MotB on its own terms, and see if an enjoyable game emerges? That spirit eater thing seems designed to take the fun out of the game for players like me though, who enjoy a slower-paced completionist approach to these games. Having a clock ticking on EVERY map, even if I got to the point I could largely ignore it (I never got that far) would leave me perpetually stressed, rather than having fun. Some gamers will really get into that, and MotB is a great game for them, but it is the embodiment of anti-fun for me That said, I loved Storm over Zehir, which came in for a lot of criticism - mostly I think there was a lot of potential with the expansion of the game engine, that was never really delivered on. One final expansion putting it all together would have been fantastic, but alas, not to be.
Since I hated the NPCs in the NWN2 OC, I found the MotB NPCs a vast improvement, especially Gann. I have never been troubled by the Spirit Eater mechanic, always found it easy to manage.
My only beef with MotB was the vast numbers of critical hit immune enemies made my Axe Weapon Master Dwarf gimp.
I got it from Lt. Danger's Let's Play on lparchive.org
Interestingly timed coincidences and all that, Autequi! I happened to note a discussion where someone was seeking advice how a friend could implement Sand's voice pack for a multiplayer CHAR - what a nice friend that - which simply tipped me off how to find the comprehensive voice files. I simply had never thought to look for them before!
And I was quite happily surprised to discover that the scene you sent me a link to was fully voiced, and that dialogue is available even if content was ultimately cut from the OC.
In case you are curious to check it out, here goes:
NWN 2 game folder / data / VO / VO + search in the folder with "31_CS_qara_sand..."
(It's about 11k lines in total, so this will cut the chase a bit...)
Hazarding a bold guess there could be one or two Bishop fanboys and -gals out there... It might be of interest that also Bishop has some voiced lines for cut content, most notably for a conversation about his home village of Redfallows Watch. There is a number of "general lines" for each character, just check out "gl_bishop."
As this would have been a conversation with the PC, the specific questioning from the hero will be anyone's guess, though. Even if impartial to Sand, I do find the voice work superb, and I also really liked that while Bishop was an evil, treacherous character, he was certainly not a simplified, unemotional or one-dimensional in his dastardly deeds. "Don't think I did not see you and the paladin here before the siege. To think that before that I was willing to fight for you; I would have died for you." or something to this effect...
And poor Casavir's cut back-story of his tragic Ophala affair had one scene voiced - only, unfortunately - can be found by searching for "10_cas_mor..." His character would have arguably benefited the most from additional story elements, as he came across as bit one-dimensional in the OC, IMO.
Bishop is a terrible person, possibly mentally deranged, bloodthirsty and hates everything in the world, especially himself. He's also the least creepy love interest in Neverwinter Nights 2.
One thing i've always pondered though... Is Daeghuns voice actor just really terrible or is it meant to be that way because he's so emotionally withdrawn? I just think he sounds terrible tbh .. made worse that he utters the first piece of dialogue in the game ''So many years ago today..''
I actually quite like Amie. I messed with the toolset couple years ago just to mod some of the dialogues and script to allow her to survive, so I could have an arcane caster besides Sand (who comes too late) and Qara (who is insufferable). She's actually brutally powerful if she gets the chance to shine.
Plus she would've made a better couple with the PC than either Elanee or Neeshka.
Yes, I would have liked Amie as a companion rather than Qara, Neeska or Elanee. I think my dislike of those characters is a product of the voice acting.
The fault with Sand is something that could easily be corrected in an "enhanced edition": Auto level-up combined with awful preset feat choices.
For me, the range of possible builds was a draw for NWN2 - but I was already very familiar with 3rd edition rules. For someone unfamiliar with the rules I would recommend sticking to a single class.
@subtledoctor , Just be careful about mixing base classes. You have a "favored class", which is your first one for humans, and a specific predefined "favored class" for other races. Once you take two base classes other than your favored class, the two non-favored classes must be kept within one level of each other, or you suffer a huge experience penalty.
Levels of any prestige class don't count against your favored class setup.
I notice that your bard build idea has his non-favored classes both at level three, so that should be fine. (So maybe you already read about and understand all this.)
BTW, I'm currently playing a wizard/druid and loving it. Only in NWN can you play a wizard/druid multi-class. How many times have I heard a wish for a druid-mage in BG? (Lots.)
Although NWN2's OC has some flaws, I like it a LOT better than the OC of NWN1.
I really like Qara, though it's less because of her personality and more because of fireballing people. Using Qara made me love spamming fireballs. It was especially fun how you could throw fireballs at extremely far away targets.
Spell resistance from items is broken by the way, in case you didn't know. I think it only registers the first spell attack from the first round and then you have to re-equip the item for it to take effect again. Unless you've already got a list of the most serious bugs somewhere.
Racial spell resistance works as intended though.
And then there's that bug where your character suddenly starts warping around..>_>
@BelgarathMTH , how is your Druid/Wizard doing? I've always been under the assumption that multiclassing casters was a bad idea but if you're having fun with it then damn optimization, I want a Bard/Necromancer!
and NEN'S face and hair pack (Affects some of the NPCs during the campaign so may want to avoid if you want authentic experience but great for Storms of Zehir). https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/199/?
The only time I don't use these is if I'm using a module that isn't compatible. To install most of these just go to your My Documents/Neverwinter Nights 2/override and dump them in there. If you ever want to delete the mods just delete the contents of your override folder.
I know people have issues with the OC party members and their characterization but I actually think there are more good than bad ones. If I were to list them as the "good", the "okay" and the "bad" in my opinion:
Spoilers for the ones who haven't finished the OC
Good' Khelgar Bishop Sand Shandra Ammon Zhjaeve
Okay Grobnar Casavir
Bad Neeshka Elanee Qara
I think the "bad" list is part of why people dislike the OC. Those are three of the four earliest party members and I personally dislike all three of them and I think some others would agree. The NPCs get a lot better as the story progresses. There are those who might replace Neeshka for Khelgar but I think Khelgar is a great character while Neeshka is just unlikable.
My issue with Neeshka is that while she does have a personality she is also probably the most selfish party member, right up there with Bishop and Qara and arguably even worse.
My issue with Neeshka is that while she does have a personality she is also probably the most selfish party member, right up there with Bishop and Qara and arguably even worse.
The problem is more that the narrative goes along with Qara and Bishop being immature and/or selfish assholes, while Neeshka gets way too much slack for how much she acts like a spoiled child.
I didn't really care for the OC npcs during that campaign, they all felt a bit too... boardy. Didn't really catch my fancy. The ones I liked the most was the lategame additions.
Then I played Mask of the Betrayed and realised that I actually had grown to care for them a lot over the adventure despite that. As silly as it seems, those bits are still some of my favoured parts of MotB.
@BelgarathMTH , how is your Druid/Wizard doing? I've always been under the assumption that multiclassing casters was a bad idea but if you're having fun with it then damn optimization, I want a Bard/Necromancer!
@Vallmyr , It's pure role-playing, with a specific consideration for the mechanics of animal companions and familiars. I've never been one to care much about optimization, so I don't worry about that. The combat in the game is easy enough that optimizing seems like overkill to me anyway, in most cases.
My role-playing idea that appeals to me so much is that I want to be a wizard who focuses his magic on animals and familiars. He especially loves cats and all felines. So, he worships Sharess, the Mother of Cats, but also is favored by Lurue, the Queen of Talking Beasts (and the source of his druid spells).
Mechanically, I have a mod that restores sneak attacks to the panther animal companion. I was disappointed to discover that the panther mod can let a wizard have a panther familiar, but apparently wizard familiars are hard-coded as non-combatants in NWN2, meaning your wizard can have only a purely cosmetic panther, unlike the combat-effective panther familiar for wizards in NWN 1.
My character will be Wizard 1/Druid 19, and then eventually Wizard 10/Druid 20 in MotB. Splashing a single level of Wizard is surprisingly effective in NWN, because it gives you access to all magic wands, rods, staves, robes, and scrolls. I also discovered that my beetle familiar gives its bonus to hit points by total character level as opposed to only wizard levels, meaning my Wizard 1/Druid 19 will have 20 extra hit points by level 20.
My guy is basically a wizard. I just take the druidic path of magic because I want Magic Fang, Greater Magic Fang, and Awaken for my panther, plus having it be able to fight in NWN2. I'll take feats in Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus: Evocation, and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, and then load my spell book with lightning storms and flame strikes for my damage output. I also take Expertise and Improved Expertise for +6 to AC. The BaB penalty means nothing to this character - the Expertise line of feats seems made for wizards.
I'll be doing a lot of summoning. My character hates to fight, and he's terrible at it. He prefers to hang back and let his friends do the fighting for him, using his heal skill and spells to heal them and give support if they get into trouble.
Neither of the Neverwinter Nights Original Campaigns are horrible, they are just very paint-by-the numbers, and the real issue is that they 1.) Don't live up to the Black Isle Infinity Engine games and 2.) Are also wholly inferior to their expansion packs. If neither of those pockets of campaigns existed to compare them to, they would be much more highly regarded. As it is, they are simply the weak links in a very strong series of stories.
I'm thinking of re-running the game this time as a male feytouched (from Kaedrin's PRC) Bard/Pale Master. I know my first run was a female gnome bard/shadowdancer but I just love Bards. Idk when I'll do this, but hopefully soon.
I know people have issues with the OC party members and their characterization but I actually think there are more good than bad ones. If I were to list them as the "good", the "okay" and the "bad" in my opinion:
Spoilers for the ones who haven't finished the OC
Good' Khelgar Bishop Sand Shandra Ammon Zhjaeve
Okay Grobnar Casavir
Bad Neeshka Elanee Qara
I think the "bad" list is part of why people dislike the OC. Those are three of the four earliest party members and I personally dislike all three of them and I think some others would agree. The NPCs get a lot better as the story progresses. There are those who might replace Neeshka for Khelgar but I think Khelgar is a great character while Neeshka is just unlikable.
I generally agree with that assessment. The problem is, unlike BG, you can't ditch or kill the annoying ones. Also, since Neeshka is the only rogue, and you can't multiclass Grobnar, you have to take her or take Rogue levels on the PC.
Comments
It does draw a lot of praise from other players, and I do like playing the OC with the expanded content (new classes/races/feats/etc.) but can't get into that campaign myself.
One suggestion I may yet try is to create a new character directly for MotB, and NOT take them through the OC. Without that connection to the original party, nor being deeply invested in a character through the length and breadth of the OC, it might be possible to tackle MotB on its own terms, and see if an enjoyable game emerges? That spirit eater thing seems designed to take the fun out of the game for players like me though, who enjoy a slower-paced completionist approach to these games. Having a clock ticking on EVERY map, even if I got to the point I could largely ignore it (I never got that far) would leave me perpetually stressed, rather than having fun. Some gamers will really get into that, and MotB is a great game for them, but it is the embodiment of anti-fun for me
My only beef with MotB was the vast numbers of critical hit immune enemies made my Axe Weapon Master Dwarf gimp.
And I was quite happily surprised to discover that the scene you sent me a link to was fully voiced, and that dialogue is available even if content was ultimately cut from the OC.
In case you are curious to check it out, here goes:
NWN 2 game folder / data / VO / VO + search in the folder with "31_CS_qara_sand..."
(It's about 11k lines in total, so this will cut the chase a bit...)
Hazarding a bold guess there could be one or two Bishop fanboys and -gals out there...
As this would have been a conversation with the PC, the specific questioning from the hero will be anyone's guess, though. Even if impartial to Sand, I do find the voice work superb, and I also really liked that while Bishop was an evil, treacherous character, he was certainly not a simplified, unemotional or one-dimensional in his dastardly deeds. "Don't think I did not see you and the paladin here before the siege. To think that before that I was willing to fight for you; I would have died for you." or something to this effect...
And poor Casavir's cut back-story of his tragic Ophala affair had one scene voiced - only, unfortunately - can be found by searching for "10_cas_mor..." His character would have arguably benefited the most from additional story elements, as he came across as bit one-dimensional in the OC, IMO.
I accidentally deleted all of my saves QQ
Well, fortunately I love this game so I won't mind re-doing everything at some point XD
I still have to finish my BG > SoD > SoA > ToB playthrough first, though.
Plus she would've made a better couple with the PC than either Elanee or Neeshka.
The fault with Sand is something that could easily be corrected in an "enhanced edition": Auto level-up combined with awful preset feat choices.
For me, the range of possible builds was a draw for NWN2 - but I was already very familiar with 3rd edition rules. For someone unfamiliar with the rules I would recommend sticking to a single class.
Levels of any prestige class don't count against your favored class setup.
I notice that your bard build idea has his non-favored classes both at level three, so that should be fine. (So maybe you already read about and understand all this.)
BTW, I'm currently playing a wizard/druid and loving it. Only in NWN can you play a wizard/druid multi-class. How many times have I heard a wish for a druid-mage in BG? (Lots.)
I really like Qara, though it's less because of her personality and more because of fireballing people. Using Qara made me love spamming fireballs. It was especially fun how you could throw fireballs at extremely far away targets.
Racial spell resistance works as intended though.
And then there's that bug where your character suddenly starts warping around..>_>
NWN2 Client Extension
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/nwn2-client-extension
Kaedrin's PRC Pack (not compatible with Mysteries of Westgate)
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/hakpak/original-hakpak/kaedrins-prc-pack-v1421
Tony K's Companion and Monster AI mod (Make sure to turn off auto weapon switching unless you know how to use it, otherwise companions will stand around and not attack)
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/script/companion-and-monster-ai-22
and NEN'S face and hair pack (Affects some of the NPCs during the campaign so may want to avoid if you want authentic experience but great for Storms of Zehir).
https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/199/?
The only time I don't use these is if I'm using a module that isn't compatible. To install most of these just go to your My Documents/Neverwinter Nights 2/override and dump them in there. If you ever want to delete the mods just delete the contents of your override folder.
Spoilers for the ones who haven't finished the OC
Khelgar
Bishop
Sand
Shandra
Ammon
Zhjaeve
Okay
Grobnar
Casavir
Bad
Neeshka
Elanee
Qara
I think the "bad" list is part of why people dislike the OC. Those are three of the four earliest party members and I personally dislike all three of them and I think some others would agree. The NPCs get a lot better as the story progresses. There are those who might replace Neeshka for Khelgar but I think Khelgar is a great character while Neeshka is just unlikable.
I didn't really care for the OC npcs during that campaign, they all felt a bit too... boardy. Didn't really catch my fancy. The ones I liked the most was the lategame additions.
Then I played Mask of the Betrayed and realised that I actually had grown to care for them a lot over the adventure despite that. As silly as it seems, those bits are still some of my favoured parts of MotB.
My role-playing idea that appeals to me so much is that I want to be a wizard who focuses his magic on animals and familiars. He especially loves cats and all felines. So, he worships Sharess, the Mother of Cats, but also is favored by Lurue, the Queen of Talking Beasts (and the source of his druid spells).
Mechanically, I have a mod that restores sneak attacks to the panther animal companion. I was disappointed to discover that the panther mod can let a wizard have a panther familiar, but apparently wizard familiars are hard-coded as non-combatants in NWN2, meaning your wizard can have only a purely cosmetic panther, unlike the combat-effective panther familiar for wizards in NWN 1.
My character will be Wizard 1/Druid 19, and then eventually Wizard 10/Druid 20 in MotB. Splashing a single level of Wizard is surprisingly effective in NWN, because it gives you access to all magic wands, rods, staves, robes, and scrolls. I also discovered that my beetle familiar gives its bonus to hit points by total character level as opposed to only wizard levels, meaning my Wizard 1/Druid 19 will have 20 extra hit points by level 20.
My guy is basically a wizard. I just take the druidic path of magic because I want Magic Fang, Greater Magic Fang, and Awaken for my panther, plus having it be able to fight in NWN2. I'll take feats in Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus: Evocation, and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, and then load my spell book with lightning storms and flame strikes for my damage output. I also take Expertise and Improved Expertise for +6 to AC. The BaB penalty means nothing to this character - the Expertise line of feats seems made for wizards.
I'll be doing a lot of summoning. My character hates to fight, and he's terrible at it. He prefers to hang back and let his friends do the fighting for him, using his heal skill and spells to heal them and give support if they get into trouble.
This could be fixed in an EE too.