@subtledoctor , Thanks for clearing that up about favored class for humans. I was going by what I was told long ago when I asked the question, but I think you're right, if we can believe the forum post you linked. It sounds like you're totally on top of things when it comes to mechanics.
As far as the favored class thing goes, humans and half-elves/half-drow use their highest class. The only other race you can use to pull this combination off without a multiclass XP penalty is Rock Gnome.
Your Bard 13/Swash 3/Fighter 2/Cleric 2 won't suffer any XP penalties as long as they're all within 1 level of each other before you start going all-in on the Bard. I actually tested it in Vordan's Hero Creator, pretty serviceable for the OC, though anything with major amounts of Bard levels is always good.
I think AC is more important than extra hit points, so I usually pass on Toughness. Curse Song is nice for a bard because it does damage as well as debuffing, it's AoE, and the bard's spell list is weak on offense.
You need Improved Two-Weapon fighting to be effective at dual wielding as enemy defense improves.
Lingering Song is nice, but I find the inspirations more effective than the songs, because the inspirations can be kept active permanently. (This is a change from NWN1, where most of the bard's power was in his song, and I always took Lingering Song at 1st level with my NWN1 bards.)
I'm a huge fan of having to rest and buff less often rather than more often, so I almost always take Extend Spell as a quality of life thing, although I think most power gaming experts say not to take it. Also, if you carry through to Mask of the Betrayer, there will be *severe* restrictions on how often you can rest.
Out of your list, I think I'd take Extended Spell, Curse Song, and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
If you really want to be good in melee, though, you could also use Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Improved Criticals. Do you have those already? The drawback is that you have to pick one weapon type and stick with it.
This is purely subjective opinion, so the next person who comes along will probably have different advice.
It's not a part of the core as far as I know, bards are very buff focused in pnp 3.5. After a brief search I found this ability from the Champion of Ruins book: "You can spend one of your bardic music uses to utter a string of crass and appalling epithets and curses at one enemy within 120 feet. The intended target must be able to hear and comprehend your damning remarks. A target that fails a Will save (DC 10 + your character level + your Cha modifier) is cursed with a -10 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks for 1 round. This is a supernatural, necromantic effect."
When playing a Bard in NWN2, I prefer to go the full support route and get everything related to songs. I'd get Curse Song, Extended Spell, and Lingering Song. Curse Song is as good as it was in NWN1: high perform = crippling debuff. Lingering Song is great for the short songs so you can get all the mileage you can out of them (Ironskin Chant, Song/Chorus of Heroism, Legionnaire's March). Extended Spell is always useful: double duration for just 1 spell slot higher.
Toughness can be skipped since you're not exactly fragile and have tons of ways to escape from harm's way (spells, Fascinate, meatshields). Just pick up a good +CON item. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat line requires a severe investment into DEX. If you still want to go that route, I recommend going no higher than ITWF because you do need your CHA for offensive songs.
At epic levels, get all the epic bard song stuff you can. With super-high Perform, Song/Hymn of Requiem will clear out rooms faster than you can say, "Mr. Kelemvor, tear down this wall!"
Plus one is a bigger deal than it appears at first glance, when you remember that all hits and misses are based on a d20 roll, where a 1 always misses and a 20 always hits. Regardless of your final BAB numbers, those numbers are being added to a base d20 roll. If an 18 will miss, and a 19 will hit, you have added a 5% chance to hit. Add in specialization for another +1 BAB bonus. Now you've added 10% total to your chance to hit. Over hundreds or maybe even thousands of rolls during the game, that's a pretty big number of extra hits, and therefore DPS equivalent.
The same thing works in reverse for AC. Anything that adds +1 to AC means a 5% reduction in enemy hit rate.
It also works for your saves. Plus one to any saving throw actually means a 5% greater chance to make the save. Every single point is significant, and adds up its benefits really fast.
It doesn't change these probabilities even if the numbers are in the hundreds, because d20 determines the *actual* probability of anything in the game happening. The object of the numbers game is to win the arms race by beating your opponents' numbers to the point that they can only succeed on a 20, while you can succeed on any minimum required dice roll number less than 20 (and always greater than one).
Even if they need a 20 and you need a 19, probability says you win. You'll be hitting them twice as often as they hit you. If they need a 20 and you need an 18, you'll be hitting them three times as often. If they need a 20 and you need a 17, you'll be hitting them four times as often. Etc.
D&D at its heart is a game of dice. All the different editions, from Thac0 to BAB, all the lore, the graph paper, the computers, the miniature figures, the art, and the stories, tend to obscure that. There's always a 1 in 20 chance to succeed, and a 1 in 20 chance to fail. Feats and bonuses that alter the probability on a d20 by 1 are significant in any version of D&D.
While correct, you are not looking at it in context of the game it is in. The reason it is insignificant despite what you said is because there are so many choices that give bigger bonuses. Why would for example a Cleric choose a measly, static +1 bonus when they could chose Divine Might and get +CHAmodifier, chose metamagic and empower your already considerable array of spells which already give you a higher than +1 bonus to begin with, or just chose a bonus spell slot to cast another one of said spells (like, say, that one spell that gives you +6 STR and the BAB of a Fighter).
Weapon Focus, on the other hand, is so shitty that it doesn't even give you a +1 to damage beside the +1 to hit, unlike virtually every other way of improving your attack rolls in the game.
In short, Weapon Focus and the like should only be taken if you have spare Feats you need to spend, if it's required for some other, more useful Feat later on, or if you have absolutely no other way of improving your attack bonus.
Hit bonuses rapidly outstrip AC anyway, so at high level the only way to miss is to roll a natural 1.
In NWN2, it's only really damage bonus and number of attacks that matter. Even critical hits are pretty irrelevant, given the number of enemies that are immune. I've found that the best way to make a melee damage dealer is to use a 2H weapon, the power attack and cleave family of feats, and max out strength (usually with Dragon Disciple levels).
Weapon Focus is only truly useful when you're getting the Weapon Specialization feats, but it requires a significant Fighter level investment.
It used to be in NWN1 you could just take a 4th fighter level at epic levels and pick up Weapon Spec. and Epic Weapon Spec. at the same time on a feat-giving level and be done with it for a cheap +6 damage. But in NWN2 it requires Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization (which require 8/12 fighter levels), so getting Epic Spec. usually isn't worth it anymore since each Weapon Spec. feat only adds +2 damage.
Hit bonuses rapidly outstrip AC anyway, so at high level the only way to miss is to roll a natural 1.
In NWN2, it's only really damage bonus and number of attacks that matter. Even critical hits are pretty irrelevant, given the number of enemies that are immune. I've found that the best way to make a melee damage dealer is to use a 2H weapon, the power attack and cleave family of feats, and max out strength (usually with Dragon Disciple levels).
I played as Fighter 4 / Weapon Master 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Sorcerer 11, starting with 14 in all stats except WIS. With only Power Attack, 2 level up points into STR and a belt of STR it was more than enough to whack things around with a greatsword While most of WM prereqs were kinda meh, lumped together with its bonuses they really added up.
As for defense, Combat Expertise and Divine Shield can still do wonders if you also have some natural/dodge/shield bonuses. I was building a Fighter/Paladin specifically to duel Lorne, and was still a little anxious to face him, but when I did he simple couldn't scratch me at all except on 20
Hit bonuses rapidly outstrip AC anyway, so at high level the only way to miss is to roll a natural 1.
In NWN2, it's only really damage bonus and number of attacks that matter. Even critical hits are pretty irrelevant, given the number of enemies that are immune. I've found that the best way to make a melee damage dealer is to use a 2H weapon, the power attack and cleave family of feats, and max out strength (usually with Dragon Disciple levels).
I played as Fighter 4 / Weapon Master 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Sorcerer 11, starting with 14 in all stats except WIS. With only Power Attack, 2 level up points into STR and a belt of STR it was more than enough to whack things around with a greatsword While most of WM prereqs were kinda meh, lumped together with its bonuses they really added up.
As for defense, Combat Expertise and Divine Shield can still do wonders if you also have some natural/dodge/shield bonuses. I was building a Fighter/Paladin specifically to duel Lorne, and was still a little anxious to face him, but when I did he simple couldn't scratch me at all except on 20
A duelist is great for that fight. Hit the "parry" button and go make a sandwich. I was literally untouchable in melee through the game.
Iirc Dodge was considered broken, unless you're using some fan patch that fixed that.
As for Parry... I dunno. The best way of defending yourself in NwN is generally to kill your enemy as fast as possible. When using Parry, you exchange your ability to make normal attacks against the enemy for another chance to make them miss, and can only attack if you roll high enough over their attack roll. In short, this makes your ability to make even a single attack dependant on two rolls (their attack roll plus your Parry roll) in addition to the normal Attack vs AC roll. All in all, this diminishes the chances of actually landing an attack significantly. It's not worth it unless you build a character particularly around being the best at Parrying they could possibly be.
Parry works sort of like this: When the mode is enabled, you can no longer make any normal attacks. However, when an enemy attacks you, you get to make a Parry skill roll. If your Parry roll is higher than his attack roll, he automatically misses.
For example: The Gnoll attacks you. He rolls a 5. You make a Parry roll, and score 6. Since your roll is higher than his, he automatically misses his attack.
Now, if your Parry roll were to have been 10 higher than his attack roll, you would have gotten to make a counterattack against him. A counterattack is not an automatic hit, so you still need to make an attack roll that beats beats his AC (as usual). Sequential counterattacks in the same round also gets penalties to the attack roll of -5, -10 and so just like normal attacks per round do.
F ex: The Gnoll attacks. He rolls 5. You Parry. Your Parry roll is 16. You get to make a counterattack. Your attack roll is 13. His AC is 14. You miss. Now you need to wait until your Parry roll beats his with another ten before you get to try attacking him again.
Parry is not worth it. @scriver already explained how it works, but Improved Parry reduces the difference required for ripostes to 5 instead of 10 and gives you 1 riposte at full bonus before it uses your normal attack schedule. Also you can still fail by rolling a 1 on the skill check, which compares the attacker's AB vs. your AC like normal. You can't parry natural 20's either.
You can only block 3 attacks/round from one enemy no matter how many attacks/round they have (or you have), because like NWN1, the game sort of "doubles up" attacks once you hit 4 attacks/round. You'll only parry the first attack of each of these "flurries," so it hardly protects you as much as it should. Its this limitation that prevents Parry from being actually decent.
Also NWN1's parry is WAY better because there's actual parry animations for weapons/shields which NWN2 completely lacks, featuring only a "stumbling out of the way" dodge animation.
The duelist class is built around parrying. It gets bonuses towards it (I believe int plays a part) as well large armor class boosts for being unarmored and having a free hand. Parry is pretty useless for any other class, but a duelist is almost untouchable in melee with it.
I've never built a parry character because it sounds awful to me on paper. Maybe if the skill is high enough to get a riposte reliably in practice, it's okay. I think the problem would be the opportunity cost. Most characters get multiple attacks at higher levels in regular combat mode, so I have trouble seeing how parry mode can compete with that.
Comments
Your Bard 13/Swash 3/Fighter 2/Cleric 2 won't suffer any XP penalties as long as they're all within 1 level of each other before you start going all-in on the Bard. I actually tested it in Vordan's Hero Creator, pretty serviceable for the OC, though anything with major amounts of Bard levels is always good.
You need Improved Two-Weapon fighting to be effective at dual wielding as enemy defense improves.
Lingering Song is nice, but I find the inspirations more effective than the songs, because the inspirations can be kept active permanently. (This is a change from NWN1, where most of the bard's power was in his song, and I always took Lingering Song at 1st level with my NWN1 bards.)
I'm a huge fan of having to rest and buff less often rather than more often, so I almost always take Extend Spell as a quality of life thing, although I think most power gaming experts say not to take it. Also, if you carry through to Mask of the Betrayer, there will be *severe* restrictions on how often you can rest.
Out of your list, I think I'd take Extended Spell, Curse Song, and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
If you really want to be good in melee, though, you could also use Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Improved Criticals. Do you have those already? The drawback is that you have to pick one weapon type and stick with it.
This is purely subjective opinion, so the next person who comes along will probably have different advice.
Btw, Is curse song a thing in 3.X? I know it's in NWN1 and NWN2 but never encountered it in PnP.
Toughness can be skipped since you're not exactly fragile and have tons of ways to escape from harm's way (spells, Fascinate, meatshields). Just pick up a good +CON item. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat line requires a severe investment into DEX. If you still want to go that route, I recommend going no higher than ITWF because you do need your CHA for offensive songs.
At epic levels, get all the epic bard song stuff you can. With super-high Perform, Song/Hymn of Requiem will clear out rooms faster than you can say, "Mr. Kelemvor, tear down this wall!"
The same thing works in reverse for AC. Anything that adds +1 to AC means a 5% reduction in enemy hit rate.
It also works for your saves. Plus one to any saving throw actually means a 5% greater chance to make the save. Every single point is significant, and adds up its benefits really fast.
It doesn't change these probabilities even if the numbers are in the hundreds, because d20 determines the *actual* probability of anything in the game happening. The object of the numbers game is to win the arms race by beating your opponents' numbers to the point that they can only succeed on a 20, while you can succeed on any minimum required dice roll number less than 20 (and always greater than one).
Even if they need a 20 and you need a 19, probability says you win. You'll be hitting them twice as often as they hit you. If they need a 20 and you need an 18, you'll be hitting them three times as often. If they need a 20 and you need a 17, you'll be hitting them four times as often. Etc.
D&D at its heart is a game of dice. All the different editions, from Thac0 to BAB, all the lore, the graph paper, the computers, the miniature figures, the art, and the stories, tend to obscure that. There's always a 1 in 20 chance to succeed, and a 1 in 20 chance to fail. Feats and bonuses that alter the probability on a d20 by 1 are significant in any version of D&D.
Weapon Focus, on the other hand, is so shitty that it doesn't even give you a +1 to damage beside the +1 to hit, unlike virtually every other way of improving your attack rolls in the game.
In short, Weapon Focus and the like should only be taken if you have spare Feats you need to spend, if it's required for some other, more useful Feat later on, or if you have absolutely no other way of improving your attack bonus.
In NWN2, it's only really damage bonus and number of attacks that matter. Even critical hits are pretty irrelevant, given the number of enemies that are immune. I've found that the best way to make a melee damage dealer is to use a 2H weapon, the power attack and cleave family of feats, and max out strength (usually with Dragon Disciple levels).
It used to be in NWN1 you could just take a 4th fighter level at epic levels and pick up Weapon Spec. and Epic Weapon Spec. at the same time on a feat-giving level and be done with it for a cheap +6 damage. But in NWN2 it requires Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization (which require 8/12 fighter levels), so getting Epic Spec. usually isn't worth it anymore since each Weapon Spec. feat only adds +2 damage.
As for defense, Combat Expertise and Divine Shield can still do wonders if you also have some natural/dodge/shield bonuses. I was building a Fighter/Paladin specifically to duel Lorne, and was still a little anxious to face him, but when I did he simple couldn't scratch me at all except on 20
As for Parry... I dunno. The best way of defending yourself in NwN is generally to kill your enemy as fast as possible. When using Parry, you exchange your ability to make normal attacks against the enemy for another chance to make them miss, and can only attack if you roll high enough over their attack roll. In short, this makes your ability to make even a single attack dependant on two rolls (their attack roll plus your Parry roll) in addition to the normal Attack vs AC roll. All in all, this diminishes the chances of actually landing an attack significantly. It's not worth it unless you build a character particularly around being the best at Parrying they could possibly be.
Parry works sort of like this: When the mode is enabled, you can no longer make any normal attacks. However, when an enemy attacks you, you get to make a Parry skill roll. If your Parry roll is higher than his attack roll, he automatically misses.
For example:
The Gnoll attacks you. He rolls a 5.
You make a Parry roll, and score 6. Since your roll is higher than his, he automatically misses his attack.
Now, if your Parry roll were to have been 10 higher than his attack roll, you would have gotten to make a counterattack against him. A counterattack is not an automatic hit, so you still need to make an attack roll that beats beats his AC (as usual). Sequential counterattacks in the same round also gets penalties to the attack roll of -5, -10 and so just like normal attacks per round do.
F ex:
The Gnoll attacks. He rolls 5.
You Parry. Your Parry roll is 16. You get to make a counterattack.
Your attack roll is 13. His AC is 14. You miss.
Now you need to wait until your Parry roll beats his with another ten before you get to try attacking him again.
You can only block 3 attacks/round from one enemy no matter how many attacks/round they have (or you have), because like NWN1, the game sort of "doubles up" attacks once you hit 4 attacks/round. You'll only parry the first attack of each of these "flurries," so it hardly protects you as much as it should. Its this limitation that prevents Parry from being actually decent.
Also NWN1's parry is WAY better because there's actual parry animations for weapons/shields which NWN2 completely lacks, featuring only a "stumbling out of the way" dodge animation.