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Buying a new computer

elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
edited December 2015 in Off-Topic
So here is the deal. I'm looking to buy a new desktop. Just the tower though (so no new monitor, keyboard, etc).

The computer I'm currently using though is roughly about 7 years old. I actually threw it together myself, though this time I'm thinking of just buying stock.

Basically, I'm 7-8 years separated from what is decent/acceptable as far as specs go. I'm not really looking for anything super amazing, I'm looking at spending about $1000 USD ($1300 Canadian). So I'm not certain what I should be looking for. So uhh...any help here would be appreciated :)

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Comments

  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    I HIGHLY recommend building it yourself.
    Computer I'm currently running (desk-top) I did a full months research on components and then after purchasing them, had it fully operational in about 3 days;
    - Liquid cooled ( they are VERY easy to install and are sealed now)
    - 850w pwr supply
    - 1tb disc drive
    - 500 gb ssd drive
    - 16 gb ram
    - 4 gb vid card
    - Asus Z87 Pro MB
    - i5 4670 processor ( last year)
    - cube case with 6 fans
    - running Win 7 Pro

    I am by no means a geek but builds are almost stupid proof today, especially with the plethora of You-tube vids to help.
    Best to ya El, you won't regret it.

    ( note: get extended warranties!)
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    I'm in the same position as @elminster actually, also have a comp roughly ~7 years old (IIRC I bought it when Crysis warhead came out around 2008).

    The thing I'm completely lost about nowadays is graphics cards. It's always been the most important part, I think, and the one thing you should really spend money on.

    So to add on to Elminster's question, which graphic cards are the best now, radeon or nvidia? (yeah, I know I can look up 3Dmark, but sometimes it's better to get an actual person's view of things as well).
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    edited December 2015
    Personally, I think they are both excellent cards at it is simply a Coke vs Pepsi argument at this stage of the game.
    Both are excellent. Some may be prone to playing favourites with a particular STYLE of game is all. Check TOM'S HARDWARE web-site for best source of any computer related info.

    note: I'm running a Radeon R9 270x (last years) and it runs Witcher 3 as smooth as any movie.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    I think I'll probably go Nvidia this time around. My last two video cards were AMD.
    Sharguild said:


    - Liquid cooled ( they are VERY easy to install and are sealed now)
    - 850w pwr supply

    Liquid cooled certainly seems the way to go. Back in 2008 I think I looked at it and went all Napoleon on it.

    "What, sir? You would make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her decks? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense." (referring to steam powered ships)

    I guess back then I was rather apprehensive about installing something that has liquid that close to all this hardware. Particularly given my level of knowledge at the time. As it turns out I later went on to knock over a bottle of beer, spilling a bunch of it into my PC in the process, so it getting wet ended up happening anyway :p
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    What is your current spec? What do you use the system for?

    Also, go full custom water or air. No all in ones...
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    elminster said:

    I think I'll probably go Nvidia this time around. My last two video cards were AMD.

    I think you and I both know what I'm going to say here. *cough*
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    FinneousPJ said:

    What is your current spec? What do you use the system for?

    Gaming, school, work. I think at the moment the most demanding game I would own would be Saints Row IV (which I realized after buying it cheap on Steam that I couldn't actually run it), though that would change.

    Not sure why my current specs are necessary given that its basically a 7 year old computer (ok so the graphics card is from 2009). The only thing I'd be keeping is the hard drive :)

    2.53 core 2 duo processor
    400 w power supply
    4 gb ram (2x2gb)
    ati 4670 1gb graphics card
    250 gb hard drive.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    Troodon80 said:

    elminster said:

    I think I'll probably go Nvidia this time around. My last two video cards were AMD.

    I think you and I both know what I'm going to say here. *cough*
    Can't remember. Is that 4k or 5k. Doesn't really matter...just so many pixels.

    image
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2015
    @elminster What does your school and work entail? The point is do you need a lot of computational grunt or are games your most demanding task.

    Oh and I just wanted to see what you're working with and if there's anything salvageable.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    Games would be the most demanding task. Work would entail having as much as 15 or more internet tabs open at any one time, along with programs like Near Infinity. School would involve using maybe a program like ArcGIS (maps can end up having a lot of layers to them and having them all open can be kind of processor/ram heavy).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    I'll probably end up going with something like this.


    Processor

    AMD X8 FX­8350 (125W) Eight­Core Socket AM3+, 4GHz CPU, 8Mb Cache, 32nm


    Motherboard

    ASUS M5A97 R2.0 Socket AM3+ AMD 970/SB950 Chipset | Dual Channel DDR3
    2133(O.C.) MHz, 2x PCI­Express x16 | GLAN, 6x SATA 6.0Gb/s, 2x USB 3.0, 6x USB
    2.0 | ATX

    RAM
    Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1866MHz CL10 DIMMs

    Hard Drive (primary)
    Seagate Desktop HDD 1TB 3.5" SATA3 64MB Cache OEM Hard Drive

    Graphics
    Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card

    Casing
    Corsair Carbide Series� SPEC­02 Red LED Window Mid­Tower Gaming Case (CC­
    9011051­WW)

    Power Supply
    Corsair Builder Series Modular CX600M 600 Watt 80 PLUS Bronze Certified Power Supply

    Cooling
    Corsair Hydro Series H80i GT High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler


    That works out to be $1276.92 Canadian (with sales tax like $1440). Thats including someone else stressing over putting it together (so if I do it myself it'll be a bit cheaper).

    I may end up spending the extra hundred to buy the 970 gtx instead. Most of what I've posted just happens to be what a local chain computer shop (Canada Computers) offers on their "custom" building website. Its nice though because I can just pop in and pick it up rather than having to worry about mailing. I'm in contact with them to see if something else (besides what that particular aspect of their website offers) can be arranged.

    I'm also thinking of going for a larger casing. I've got a midtower at the moment and it can get pretty tight spacing wise. From a dimensions standpoint it seems like the difference in size between a midtower and a full tower is more vertical rather than horizontal. So it might be worth it to just get one of those. I made the mistake last time of going cheap on one. So I think this time around I'm going to look into a quality case.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited December 2015
    Go with the i5. AMD FX is much much worse. And don't waste your money on the H80i if that means losing the i5 or GYX 970. Actually, don't waste money on that in any case.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    Yea I guess AMD processors (just in general) still suck then? (certainly I can remember that being the case 7 or so years ago) If thats the case then times haven't changed there at least. :)
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    FinneousPJ said:

    Here you can also see why people recommend i5 for gaming and not i7 -- the price difference isn't apparent in gaming performance.

    Very interresting! Didn't know that.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited December 2015
    I too need to replace my heap of junk of 8 years. For only around £100 it had a built in Web cam, USB ports left right and centre, WiFi and in built card reader, and a dvd writable player. Oh and widescreen HD with HDMI port.

    It has lasted me amazingly well.

    It had to be got rid of because it came with vista, although it came with a free upgrade to win 7 and Microsoft office 2007. Kching.

    It ran everything I threw at it. Apart from Baldurs Gate... Doh! Due to strange technicalities. It will still be used to put movies onto the TV even when I retire it from the front line (because my DVD player is from the 90s and is beginning to whirr when playing...)

    My advice on computers is simply this.

    It will be out of date as soon as you buy it.

    So... Go for the bargain. That's the computer that is officially out of date and needs to be got rid of for new stock.

    So... pop on techradar. Get the bees knees computer of 2014 and save the money.

    Remember software is made for the majority to use, not the lucky few at the cutting edge of tech.

    ...

    This does not work for mobiles however. Technology advancements has left my Neo Xperia from 5 years ago a veritable, unusable brick.

    EDIT:

    Have laptops got cheaper? What is going on? Go for a new one... I take it back.

    http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/laptops-portable-pcs/laptops-and-netbooks/hp-spectre-x2-1306171/review#best-price-article-top
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited December 2015
    For reference, here's a build that I recently bought (still waiting for a few parts in the mail before assembling):

    http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/FjqJcf
    (actual prices I paid including shipping+taxes: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/CFw2Jx)

    I paid $926.18 ($876.18 after I mail in rebates), taxes and shipping included (not including the monitor). I also live in Ontario (I think I remember you saying you live in Toronto?), but I got a few things on Black Friday special, so I'm not sure how prices will compare for you.

    Some of the part choices I made might seem a little peculiar to some people, here are a couple changes you could potentially make:

    Get an i5 instead of i3
    Get a cheaper mobo (non overclocking), unless you get an unlocked cpu
    Get 2x8GB RAM
    Get an SSD? (I already had one)
    Get a cheaper/lower power PSU

    Edit: I guess this would probably be more helpful if I explained my choices:
    On the one hand, I'm paranoid about buyer's remorse and and finding out that I shot myself in the foot a year down the road. On the other hand, I rarely spend much time playing video games these days (just want to have the option if one catches my eye), so I didn't want to blow a bunch of money on something I wouldn't take advantage of. Here goes:

    CPU: I found an open-box i3 for $120, and based on reviews that cpu can still handle 1080p at high settings for the most part

    MoBo: I got an overclocking (Z170) mobo for 2 reasons. 1st, some gaming benchmarks of the i3-6100 shows that it actually scales with memory speed, so I wanted to be able to OC my RAM. I also did it for the upgrade path, so that I can drop in an unlocked 7th/8th gen Intel cpu down the road if I wanted to. I got the cheapest Z170 I could find, because there doesn't seem to be much point in spending more unless there's a particular feature you need or you want to chase the highest overclocks. I made sure to get a board with 4 RAM slots so I could toss in another 8GB later on.

    RAM: 8GB is enough for gaming (for now), and I can easily increase it 16 when it becomes necessary.

    GPU: The r9 380 and gtx 960 seem to be the sweet spots for 1080p gaming. The R9 380 seems to be a little more powerful (although it varies by game), as well as a little pricier. Whether to get a 2 or 4 GB depends on who you asked, but more people do seem to be leaning towards 4GB. I happened to find a good deal where a 4GB card was nearly the same price as a 2GB, so the decision was easier.

    Case: It was cheap and had good reviews.

    Power supply: Here's one area where I though it made sense to splurge. It's basically the only component you buy that won't automatically become obsolete. Due the 750w rating, excellent reviews, and 10 year warranty, it's basically guaranteed to power any single-card system I have for the next 10 years, which I thought was worth paying extra for.
    Post edited by TJ_Hooker on
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    Best of luck! I just got my new setup delivered personally, though I'm waiting for a friend to help me build it.

    I felt it was about time for an upgrade with me as well...So I can run witcher 3 and fallout 4 at least^^
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited December 2015
    elminster said:

    I think I'll probably go Nvidia this time around.

    If you do, don't settle for less than something in their 900 line. Those are the ones that are DirectX 12 compatible. I understand that the 960 is a pretty good deal these days, a decent compromise between performance and price.

    As for building it yourself vs buying stock, you could always get the individual components and have some local computer store put it together for you. They generally don't charge a lot for that type of service. I did a major upgrade through a local shop about a year and a half ago, and they didn't even charge me for putting it all together. They had already made their money on the components themselves.
    elminster said:

    Yea I guess AMD processors (just in general) still suck then? (certainly I can remember that being the case 7 or so years ago) If thats the case then times haven't changed there at least. :)

    I'm using an AMD 8320, and I have no complaints at all. It has more than enough horsepower for any of the games I'm currently running, and it isn't even top of the line. The big advantage of the AMD processors is that they're a hell of a lot cheaper than Intel, and in the vast majority of cases they are more than good enough for the general user these days.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited December 2015
    Belanos said:


    elminster said:

    Yea I guess AMD processors (just in general) still suck then? (certainly I can remember that being the case 7 or so years ago) If thats the case then times haven't changed there at least. :)

    I'm using an AMD 8320, and I have no complaints at all. It has more than enough horsepower for any of the games I'm currently running, and it isn't even top of the line. The big advantage of the AMD processors is that they're a hell of a lot cheaper than Intel, and in the vast majority of cases they are more than good enough for the general user these days.

    I took a quick look at a few gaming benchmarks on AnandBench, and in every one I looked at the 8320 was being matched or beat by an i3-4xxx, which can be had for $50 cheaper (based on current Newegg prices). Some people may compare Intel and AMD processors with an equivalent number of cores and a similar clock speed and conclude that AMD is far cheaper, but it's an apples and oranges comparison. Clock for clock, core for core, an Intel will drastically outperform an AMD. When you look at equivalent performance, the price difference shrinks, and arguably disappears.

    I spend a fair bit of time reading up on PC hardware, and the majority of what I've read has indicated that you're better off with an Intel over an AMD for gaming at a given price point (possible exception being the x4 860k as a budget option). The only time AMD really makes sense is when you need lots of cores for cheap, which only applies to certain use cases (IIRC, stuff like compiling code and video encoding).
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    A few words to justify my recommendations;

    - I purchased a Cooler Master "HAF XB" case, which is essentially a 'cube' with two levels. Bottom is for PSU and the drives, top (separated by a shelf on which the MB is bolted) is for the MB, CPU, vid card, liquid cooler and all the other goodies that attach to an MB. All four walls and ceiling are removable for ease of access as is the shelf the MB sits on. It has 2 x 8" fans blowing in front grill, 2 x 6" exhaust (one lower level, one top level) plus the 2 push-pull fans that cool the liquid cooler radiator.
    - Without a doubt, the most "user friendly" case I have ever owned for ease of access. Be aware, the footprint is approx a 20" x 20" x 16" (h) cube so this isn't gonna sit on your desk beside your monitor, unless the kitchen table is your desk.

    - I find (like many) the i5 CPU is ideal for gamers. My 4670 is a year old but still rocks all new games.
    - RAM is crucial ( heh, no pun intended) but 8 gb minimum in two sticks (4gb x 2) so you can upgrade later to 16 gb in two sticks is wise future proofing.

    - Curious to see the H80i liquid cooler get dinged by a poster (does he have experience with the latest ones?) I find it flawless. Keep in mind, if you get a passive radiator, the beast is gonna be HUGE for the processors currently on market. An antiquated and space hogging concept best thrown in the same bin with the floppy disc drive, IMHO.

    - Skimping on your power supply unit (PSU) is also considered by many, the WORST decision you could ever make. Do they put 4 cylinder engines in 4wd trucks that expect to pull trailers? They do not. A great PSU will also future proof your 'puter. It is the engine that drives the whole beast. Ensure it has power to spare!
    I recommend an 850 watt as minimum! The price difference is negligible for such a vital component.

    - many have stated that getting both a disc drive and an SSD drive is worthwhile, I heartily agree. I also have an external SSD (250gb) for back-up of critical info plugged in via usb 3.0 ( get at least 4 usb portals btw). I back-up once a week, minimum, as part of my Sunday night start before bed routine ( this plus virus scan and once a month de-frag).

    - I run Win 7 Pro. It is working admirably with all I utilize. Now DAILY I get the damn Windows 10 advert to upgrade. Well, I will select my own time/date for that and in no hurry to do so.

    - Last, I'd like to plug the program "CCleaner". I use it after EVERY session of Internet usage. On average it eliminates 350-400 mb of garbage EACH session ( yeah, that's just how much junk floods your temp files every time you go on the internet, well your mileage may vary by porn content, wink), and can be customized to personal requirements.

    - speaking of porn ( which I personally find VERY dangerous to computers), if you find a site you trust, bookmark it and stop surfing dammit! It is almost a guarantee you will get a virus!

    - okay, one more point. A home build is probably the most rewarding project you will ever undertake. It teaches you how EVERYTHING in that box works and makes future upgrades extremely less painful. As I stated before, there are so many vids on Youtube that will WALK YOU THROUGH the process you have a better chance of screwing up your own vehicle oil change. Just be dang sure you get extended warranties on key components (vid card, CPU, cooler, PSU, drives).

    M2c
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    Sharguild said:



    - speaking of porn ( which I personally find VERY dangerous to computers), if you find a site you trust, bookmark it and stop surfing dammit! It is almost a guarantee you will get a virus!

    I'm not going to dispute your advice but lets keep things forum appropriate.
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    edited December 2015
    With all do respect, I think a warning, is indeed appropriate, which was my only intent. Some younger folk don't realize the dangers they can encounter, so preventive info, much like dare I say "sex ed' in the classroom, is not condescending nor inappropriate but informative.
    I will of course, hold to Forum rules and no more need be said.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2015
    Anywho as far as what I'm probably going to end up going with I've decided that since I'm hoping to have this new computer for at least as long as I had the old one I'm going to spend more money than I had initially planned. I'm waiting on boxing day sales, so I might be able to get the prices down a bit (probably not), but at the moment I'm looking at the following (which will work out to be around $1900 Canadian after sales taxes).


    Hard Drive

    Seagate Desktop HDD 1TB 3.5" SATA3 64MB Cache OEM Hard Drive


    Processor

    Intel Core i5-6600 Quad-Core Processor | Socket LGA1151, 3.3Ghz, 6MB L3 Cache, 14nm | (Retail Boxed) Gen6


    Video Card

    ASUS Strix GeForce GTX 970 4GB GDDR5 (STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5) | 1114Mhz Clock, 7010Mhz Memory | PCI Express 3.0, Dual DVI, HDMI, Display Port



    Casing

    Corsair Obsidian Series 750D Performance Full Tower Case (CC-9011035-WW)



    Motherboard

    MSI Z170A Gaming M5


    Windows

    Windows 10 Home


    Ram

    Kingston HyperX Fury Black Series 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 2133MHz CL14 Dual-Channel DIMMs


    Power Supply

    EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 850W Power Supply 80 Plus Gold Certified Full Modular Power Supply
    Post edited by elminster on
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    edited December 2015
    Two points regarding your build;

    - MSI is not a motherboard builder but a reconfig builder, ASUS may be worth checking out in this regard.

    - you did not mention selected cooling mechanism. Whichever you choose, be it passive radiator or liquid, ensure you have CASE clearance for your selection. I know more than one person who discovered the hard way "it ain't gonna fit" since he selected a passive cooling radiator that resembled the tower of Babel.
    edit note- on a tower case, the passive rad is gonna be side-ways mounted usually, this is a HUGE weight strain on the MB connection to consider!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    To be honest I'll probably just go with an aftermarket fan.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Is there a particular reason not to go with the stock cooler for an i5-6600? I'm no expert on CPU cooling, but I'm not sure if there's need for an aftermarket cooler for a 65W part that can't be overclocked.
    elminster said:

    Motherboard

    MSI Z170A Gaming M5

    Out of curiosity, what made you choose this mobo? Maybe it has certain features that you want, but otherwise it seems like you could probably find a cheaper option that will perform largely the same.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Fans really just to reduce the noise level. I've been using a stock cooler on my current computer for the last 7+ years and its very noticeable. Enough that if I'm playing a mid intensity game (by its standards) late at night (when its otherwise quiet in the house) you can hear the fan going down the hall. Even after I've cleaned the fans off (and its been like this for as long as I've had it). So lets call this one noise futureproofing :)

    As far as the motherboard I like it because it seems like it gets solid reviews and provides a reasonable opportunity to upgrade at a date well into the future should I find that I really need to. When I last bought a motherboard I actually bought it with a bundle and it only ended up costing (between both the motherboard and the processor) about $300 Canadian (in 2008 dollars). But the consequence of this was that I really had no options as far as upgrading the processor (without replacing the motherboard I mean), the ram options I had were pretty limited, and the spacing was tight (I would end up having to remove sticks of ram to remove a hard drive and even then the hard drive would just barely fit in).
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @elminster You won't be using the same motherboard the next time you upgrade. Your current one will easily last over 3 years after which there will be a new platform out. So don't waste money trying to future proof.
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