The Black Hound as a possible expansion for either BG2EE or IWD2EE?
Prollen
Member Posts: 6
As we all know Beamdog was allowed to create a new expansion for BGEE, The Siege of Dragonspear. Does this mean that they can create expansions for the other enhanced editions as well? Whatever the case it got me thinking about the possibility to recreate Baldurs Gate 3: The Black Hound as an expansion for either BG2EE or as an expansion for IWD2EE if that's ever released.
The reason I say as an expansion for Icewind Dale 2EE are the following excerpts from The Black Hounds Wikipedia page:
"The game would not have been a sequel to Baldur's Gate II in terms of story but rather gameplay, however, it did continue part of story of Icewind Dale II through joinable NPC's, specifically Maralie Fiddlebender, who would have been an adult in the story. There was a hound featured in the storybook of Icewind Dale II of which Maralie narrated, according to the developers, the game would have revolved around this hound."
and:
"None of the characters from the previous Baldur's Gate games would have returned, the cast would have been completely original as well as the story, although characters from the Icewind Dale series would have returned."
also:
"The game was announced in 2002 and was said to use the D&D 3rd Edition ruleset."
Since Icewind Dale 2 makes use of the 3rd edition ruleset The Black Hound would be more suitable as an expansion to IW2EE than BG2EE. But that depends on if IWD2EE is ever released or not.
Do you think it would be possible to recreate The Black Hound and release it as an expansion to one Beamdogs many enhanced editions? Maybe hire MCA to lead the project since he is free now. He did comment on the script fo Siege of Dragonspear and he have also said that he would gladly help out with the enhanced edition of Planescape Torment if that's ever released.
The reason I say as an expansion for Icewind Dale 2EE are the following excerpts from The Black Hounds Wikipedia page:
"The game would not have been a sequel to Baldur's Gate II in terms of story but rather gameplay, however, it did continue part of story of Icewind Dale II through joinable NPC's, specifically Maralie Fiddlebender, who would have been an adult in the story. There was a hound featured in the storybook of Icewind Dale II of which Maralie narrated, according to the developers, the game would have revolved around this hound."
and:
"None of the characters from the previous Baldur's Gate games would have returned, the cast would have been completely original as well as the story, although characters from the Icewind Dale series would have returned."
also:
"The game was announced in 2002 and was said to use the D&D 3rd Edition ruleset."
Since Icewind Dale 2 makes use of the 3rd edition ruleset The Black Hound would be more suitable as an expansion to IW2EE than BG2EE. But that depends on if IWD2EE is ever released or not.
Do you think it would be possible to recreate The Black Hound and release it as an expansion to one Beamdogs many enhanced editions? Maybe hire MCA to lead the project since he is free now. He did comment on the script fo Siege of Dragonspear and he have also said that he would gladly help out with the enhanced edition of Planescape Torment if that's ever released.
3
Comments
Though to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they already used a lot - if not most - of the ideas from the Black Hound in other games, which would render an actual release practically redundant.
Continuation of the storyline immediately after BG2 is not a good direction for the game in my opinion .
BG3 should start centuries after, on ruins of Baldur's gate and set up the plot from completely different standpoint.
Pillars of Eternity marked RPG genre and elevated the goal and expectations of any serious RPG game.
So, with all that, there is probably a great concern and burden behind the name of Baldur's gate 3.
But, in 2016 releases are: SoD, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Dark souls 3, Final fantasy, Divinity original sin 2 . That's quite RPG's there, which will also, I believe, set up new modern standards for the genre.
We should await SoD release and announcement for Beamdog's roadmap development.
And, BG3 will stay in my daydream (till it'll come true).
To recreate BG3: the Black Hound, there'd have to be a licence from WotC, but probably also from whoever now owns the rights to the specific ideas created for the aborted development project, so it might be quite complex to get all the legalities lined up.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/693016/#Comment_693016
The question is just: What is it?
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/45164/what-do-you-think-hope-the-new-beamdog-game-is-going-to-be
Anyways, I think if anyone was going to do any "BG3" game or post-BG2EE expansion it would make the most sense to base it around the Murder in Baldur's Gate campaign. Now obviously you'd need to flesh it out some more. The material is already there and you are already basing it off things that Wizards has written.
And I am sure there is a way to implement all three endings into a game like this.
I haven't played Murder in Baldur's Gate and only know the basics of it, but for example, I do believe there is an encounter where you have to fight
Sure, it would be a lot of work, but it's doable o.o
1. If charname became a god then then the fight between Abdel and Viekang can't happen because there is only Viekang (charname is just the player version of Abdel).
2. At which point why is Viekang travelling to Baldur's Gate after 110 years? Unlike in the Murder in Baldur's Gate campaign charname isn't in the city (in the campaign Abdel is a duke in the city).
3. If charname became an evil god then there has been a new lord of murder for 110 years. Even if you want to say that Bhaal somehow is still returning upon Viekang's death the fact that there has already been a "new" lord of murder for so long by itself kind of changes a lot about the story and how people react to the events in it. Also after 110 years most people would have forgotten the name Bhaal particularly if there is an existing god who identify as the lord of murder (since most of the people in Baldur's Gate are human we are looking at 2-3 generations after charname's ascension).
4. Dealing with all the differing NPC outcomes.
Realistically this introduces a lot of writing issues before you've even started to plan out the rest of the game. Frankly I'd rather see all that time and energy instead focused on writing a story that incorporates a charname that chooses to remain mortal.
Either way, I really doubt folks would be happy to see Abdel instead of Charname
"The game would have revolved around the hunt for May Farrow, the evil cleric who killed a black hound. The Black Hound was the representation of the selfish acts of the game's main antagonist and would appear to the player through circumstance and remind him of his actions throughout the game."
(though a bit different)
The game was going to use the Jefferson Engine. It's a 3D engine. I've always though 2D isometric graphics are superior to 3D. I still think Baldur's gate art style is better than in NWN and NWN2. Artist can express way more. What do you think about it ?
"May Farrow and her gang of raiders have spent weeks tracking down the black hound, the essence of May's guilt for unleashing a great evil. The player character is resting by the firelight in an old barn to hide from the storm outside when a black hound arrives and after being shot twice by an arrow, it cries one last time before it dies on the player lap. May almost kills the player, accusing him of being in league with the dog (meaning she thinks the player character is another essence of her guilt) and almost kills the player character (PC) before the Riders of Archendale save the PC. They question the PC, take the PC to the magistrate, who question the PC further and inform the PC not to leave the areas of North Sembia, Archendale, Battledale and Deepingdale. Whenever the player then approaches somebody with great guilt, the black hound appears to him and eventually the players actions make the player the essence of guilt throughout the four areas mentioned above. As the player unravels more secrets, he learns that he can't kill guilt, thus he cannot kill the black hound or what he has become (the player can physically die, but people won't forget about what the player did). Eventually, he learns the tale of a widowed farmer's wife, taking great guilt in her husband's death as for some reason she believes its her fault, she tries to resurrect him. She succeeds but finds him to be an abomination and cannot stop him, despite him being very weak at the time. Through the course of the game, the farmer is growing stronger and stronger off the guilt absorbed by the black hound through the player. The player learns of this wife being May Farrow, who believes killing the hound would be a way to stop the farmer, the hound however latched its soul onto the player and uses him as a tunnel to channel guilt to the farmer and as a guide to the world.
The game would not have been a sequel to Baldur's Gate II in terms of story but rather gameplay, however, it did continue part of story of Icewind Dale II through joinable NPC's, specifically Maralie Fiddlebender, who would have been an adult in the story. There was a hound featured in the storybook of Icewind Dale II of which Maralie narrated, according to the developers, the game would have revolved around this hound. The game was also revealed to have a connection to another one of Black Isle Studios games, Project Jackson. Project Jackson was then revealed to be Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II. This connection was unknown and as of current, there is only one connection known: a Forgotten Realms setting. It is possible that there could be a story connection due to both the Harpers and the Zhentarim being in the game, but this was never revealed by any developer on the project. It was only stated that the projects were related once in the entire history of the project."
After all these years, it will be hard to "re-enter this river", to capture the same feeling and even to remember what was behind that art. It will hard to find the same people, with the same mindset.
This is why picking up the Black Hound now could be very difficult, nigh impossible.
2D isometric hand drawn art could capture more feeling and immersion than similar level in 3D.
For example, look at Sword coast legends (Unity 3D) and Pillars of eternity (Unity 2D). I won't say this one or that one is better but PoE art sytle gives more pleasurable athmosphere, variety of environments and lush visuals than SCL in my opinion.
I would like that next game will have similar art direction and style.
To be precise, doing that in 3D is possible but to do that you'll need to spend a lot more production money to make it in UE4, Cryengine...
I am on team 2D here.
So whose to say who would end up as final fight for you to see.
Can this concept art still be for use in BGNext? It has Black Isle logo but Black Isle in no more.
This... ...and this... Make me glad this thing burned in development hell. I don't mean to disparage any artists (the idea and artwork are great, really), but I don't see any reason to call this thing Baldur's Gate 3 instead of Icewind Dale 3 other than "Baldur's Gate" is a stronger franchise name. It reeks of meddling executives insulting their audience's intelligence.