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Pillars of Eternity (NO SPOILERS)

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  • MathuzzzMathuzzz Member Posts: 203


    I'd be extremely angry if the project outperforms BG: EE and BG2: EE. Only because Overhaul proposed the idea first, and they have put forth considerable effort to see it succeed.

    If it doesn't interfere with the sales of BG:EE, BG2:EE, BG3 etc. then I'm fairly neutral on the whole issue. Another RPG is another RPG, and I see no problem in them releasing it.

    You don´t need to worry, I believe we won´t see Project Eternity out sooner than 2 years from now and BG is coming in November, BG2 coming in maybe a half year later.

    But competition is still important thing, if the devs doesn´t take it as some kind of sport.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,542
    Hmm, I'm seriously thinking about giving them a twenty.

    I did notice, though, that their stated goal was 1.1 million dollars, and they've already exceeded it, if the board figures can be believed. They're up to almost 1.2 million dollars.

    I'd love to see it succeed. If they can do a new isometric rpg, and add that as a success to BG:EE, then we old-school gamers may have a new era of awesomeness to look forward to.

  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46
    I can't help but notice they do not have Wizards of the Coast onboard with this. You can't advertise great RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale as supporting evidence that your new game will be good when you don't have support from the underlying system that made those games what they were. I'm not big on these kickstarter projects because it's always just promises without substance. Penny Arcade mirrored my thoughts on this when they were discussing the Ouya (http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality-of-the-ouya-console-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske).

    Ward
  • NeoDragonNeoDragon Member Posts: 169
    In just ONE!!! day they managed to get over one million dollar! That's unbelievable.

    I wouldn't focus on who had the idea first or the competition between them and BG:EE/BG2:EE ... no, that's not important to me.

    The important point is: This HUGE success is the proof that there IS a market for such games. The people want them. That is more than clear now! And that's a good thing for BG:EE/BG2:EE/BG3?, too^^

    I will support both Beamdog and Obsidian.

    Cluas
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,768
    Demoss said:


    Kickstarter uses Amazon for payments and even though i have a credit card, when i pledged my debit card came up as a option so it may be ok.

    Thanks for your reply, I'll check if they'll accept my card then, it seems worth supporting, though €20,- is much for my small budget to pledge so far in advance - I don't know how bad the future'll be.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I would say it's more likely that Obsidian, Black Isle, and Overhaul had more or less the same idea at the same time, as a result of the industry being less than stellar lately.

    But Project Eternity is slated for April 2014, which means that even if BG2:EE isn't released until December of next year, its sales won't be hurt by the release of Project Eternity.

    I'm choosing to call this a win for RPGamers. Now the modern gamer, who wasn't playing games ten years ago, can experience the earliest era of the iso-RPG, and immediately thereafter enjoy something brand new in the same genre. It's a great thing.

    I donated $20. If the stretch goals start getting achieved and they do something about DRM-free releases, I might bump it up to $65 to pick up the boxed edition.

    Wasn't there one with a t-shirt?...

    MoiraAlejandro
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,768
    By having to create an Amazon payment account to pledge my 20 dollars, I immediately got tempted to buy a second hand book at Amazon, that's hard to get second-hand in Holland: Richard Heinberg's Party's Over about the peak oil problem. Let's just hope party isn't over yet in april 2014: no electricity, no internet, no games after all!

  • RabainRabain Member Posts: 39
    Hoebagger said:

    I can't help but notice they do not have Wizards of the Coast onboard with this. You can't advertise great RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale as supporting evidence that your new game will be good when you don't have support from the underlying system that made those games what they were. I'm not big on these kickstarter projects because it's always just promises without substance. Penny Arcade mirrored my thoughts on this when they were discussing the Ouya (http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality-of-the-ouya-console-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske).

    Kickstarter for the most part is just people dreaming, I don't think we've seen a company like Obsidian with the type of experience these guys are bringing to the table use kickstarter. I'm much more positive than I would be of 99% of the other crap being kickstarted.

    Also DnD isn't really necessary to make a great game. Fallout 1 and 2 had their own system because the devs just couldn't agree with Wizards about structure and limitations at the time and we got the SPECIAL system out of that which if you ask me is better than DnD. Dragon Age was decent and the combat system is one of the few things that is pretty good. Short version, getting Wizards/Atari/DnD on board is by no means necessary to make a great game.

    It was pretty much required for BG/IWD/PST simply because of the setting, it wouldn't really make sense for them to go looking to use the setting without using the rules. Characterisation, immersion and story are equally as important as the engine, if any one of them is terrible the game will suffer.

    There are several games that used DnD rules that sucked hard due to both the implementation and other facters (story etc), see Temple of Elemental Evil for example.

    Hoebagger
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited September 2012
    I put $20US on it. In the worst case scenario it's $20 for a mediocre game. But likely it'll be a good game! :3


    Though, I am a little disappointed in details revealed in the stretch goals update.

    "Base game includes three races, five classes, and five companions."
    ... with opportunities for 2 more races, 2 more classes, and 3 more companions.

    I'd like to see more than just the standard fantasy fare of races and classes. And how many RPCs are there in BG?... unless I've counted wrong there are 25 in BG1 and 17 in BG2.

    Little concerned that the donator-designed 200 RPCs and 50 unique equipment pieces won't all come out well.

    Time to crowd their forums! :)

  • XzarXzar Member Posts: 215
    Only 8 possible companions in entire game? It means it will be like 4-person DAO-style party at most. How can they claim its a companion-based game then, is beyond me. I hoped for BG1 numbers with BG2 levels of interaction, and if it would be so I could've gone as much as 1,000 pledge for such a game. But with these facts I doubt its even worth pre-ordering.

  • 10thLich10thLich Member Posts: 99
    edited September 2012
    @Xzar
    You do remember that in every Infinity Engine game you're only able to control a party of 6, which means 5 companions?

    Moreover, Obsidian has better writers than today's Bioware. And if they produce characters which can match or exceed the quality of those found in Planescape or Kotor 2, there shouldn't be any worries concerning the level of interaction.

    Additionally, I'd rather have 8 brilliantly written companions, than 15+ mediocre ones.

    10th

    Aristillius
  • XzarXzar Member Posts: 215
    @10thLich

    Party of 6 with just 8 possible hirelings would be stupid, because it means forcing the player to stick to all available NPCs regardless if they fit into party's alignment or not.

    Given the obscurity of setting, we cannot be sure if we find likeable companions at all. I for one dont like Planescape NPCs much, because I dont like high fantasy. I dont want One-of-Many types or flying skull types in a game that claims to be BG successor. I want more Viconias and Xzars.

    So in this sutiation I sure wont pledge, unless they triple the amount of NPCs or explain the setting in much more detail.

    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited September 2012
    Only 8 companions is certainly not something to be excited about, because how does that bode for possible party combinations? There wouldn't be many, that's for sure. Lots of strategy gone. :/ And I agree with the importance of finding likeable companions. Planescape did well with few companions, but I'd prefer to focus on battling than story - centred between IWD and Planescape, really ;-)

    Gotta rock their forums until they give! ^-^

  • MReedMReed Member Posts: 25
    Xzar said:

    @10thLich

    Party of 6 with just 8 possible hirelings would be stupid, because it means forcing the player to stick to all available NPCs regardless if they fit into party's alignment or not.

    Given the obscurity of setting, we cannot be sure if we find likeable companions at all. I for one dont like Planescape NPCs much, because I dont like high fantasy. I dont want One-of-Many types or flying skull types in a game that claims to be BG successor. I want more Viconias and Xzars.

    I suspect that this game is much more of a "spiritual successor" to Planescape & KOTR 2 than to BG1/BG2 given the developers past experience, and both of those games used the "few companions, but with strong / detailed personalities" as opposed to "lots of companions, but simpler / "broad strokes" personalities." I'm happy with either model, frankly, so it doesn't matter to me... :)

    With that being said, I feel that the exotic characters in Planescape were simply a consequence of the setting and would be very surprised if the companions in Eternity are any near that exotic. They weren't in KOTR 2, for example. We'll see, I suppose. :)

    Moira
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,009
    I must have missed the strong, detailed companions in KOTOR2. Other than maybe Mira and Mandalore (and I stress maybe) I can't recall a single one that I found to be particularly compelling.

    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    Yes, with the focus on fewer characters, it does seem more similar to Planescape than Baldur's Gate. I went over there and said my piece on it. See what comes. :)

  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    One stretch goal down. Already raised 1.4 million.

  • theJoshFrosttheJoshFrost Member Posts: 171
    The evident lack of companions / classes they're proposing bothers me. Not going to pledge money unless that's changed. I hated Dragon Age and it's Mage/Fighter/Thief thing. Might as well just do a Skyrim and have no classes at all if you're gonna limit it that much.

  • actionjezus6actionjezus6 Member Posts: 12
    edited September 2012
    Rabain said:

    Hoebagger said:



    There are several games that used DnD rules that sucked hard due to both the implementation and other facters (story etc), see Temple of Elemental Evil for example.

    Have you actually played the game ?
    I mean, the game wasn't great, but still I don't feel like it sucked.
    Moreover it is the only game I can recall that runs on vanilla DnD 3.5 rules - all of them, mind you. NWN didn't even get close to that.
    And the story... like come on - ToEE (the orginal adventure) was never about role-playing experience, it was about Dungeon-crawling - and that the game does well. The UI was not good but besides that I can hardly see why the game have "sucked".
    If you want to get some tactical combat experience with full dnd 3.5 rules there is no better way to go.

  • KhamillKhamill Member Posts: 226
    I have a really good feeling about the game, the force seems to be strong in this one!

  • RabainRabain Member Posts: 39
    @actionjezus6 : he was talking about DnD being somehow necessary for a spiritual successor to BG/IWD, I was pointing out how it wasn't at all necessary. As much as you might like DnD (whichever set of rules) you have to admit there are much better games than ToEE that don't use DnD, that was my point.

    The rules don't make the game, the game is a combination of everything. Good game developers can make a great game regardless of the ruleset being used. I'm not saying the ruleset is unimportant, just that the implementation of it goes in tandem with the rest of the game and if it isn't done well it doesn't matter which ruleset it is, the game will suffer for it.

    @Xzar : I'm not sure the BG six party group is actually better than the DAO four person one, at least with regard to interaction. There has to be a balance between too much dialogue and too little. Personally I found DAO heavier on dialogue than even BG2 and I didn't particularly enjoy it, especially the oddity of having pretty much all dialogue voiced except for your Main Characters, made me feel like mute more than anything else. Some of the mods done by players for BG2 add overly verbose joinable npc's making them more irritating than enjoyable. I think core BG2 got it about right, options without a flood of conversation, action and exploration without boring you (which IWD does in some of the areas).



    Hoebagger
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,828
    I think it's great Obsidian is releasing a new isometric RPG and will certainly buy it when it's out.

    But what I really thought was more interesting were their monetary targets. That really shed some light on the kind of costs involved. A partially voiced NPC, like those of Baldur's Gate required $100.000,00 beyond initial target. A Mac port $500.000,00 nearly half extra the original target of $1.100.000,00.

    So if we go by these costs we see that Trent and his company may be betting nearly $800.000,00 on the EEs alone. And that's considering only the costs of creating new content and porting of the game. We have no idea how much the rights for the games themselves cost.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Well, if they reach all of their current stretch goals, the total number of races will be five, the total number of classes will be seven, and the total number of companions will be eight. That means, for the player character, you'll have 35 different class/race combinations, and the group formations will be dependent on the number of NPCs allowed in your party at once.

    Personally, I don't feel any great need for a dozen or more companions just for the sake of numbers. I'd much rather that you have the companions you need to tell the story. As much as I like the idea of all the companions in BG1, there were too many of them for me to bother hiring any of them, especially considering that character development didn't take the driver's seat until BG2.

    Depth over breadth, in my opinion.

    CheesebellyRazor
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    Agreed. No need for a gazillion companions when we know the current ones will still be awesome (I am sure, come on, I mean, it has Avellone in it, I never hated his games and the characters in it are awesome)

    As for this kickstarter... I'd say that it'll be able to beat both Wasteland 2 and Double Fine's Adventure kickstarters. Certainly looks this way O_O

  • eksterekster Member Posts: 234
    I did not notice this being mentioned anywhere, but here's an interview about the game. with gamebanshee. The third page is particularly interesting, I find. They talk a bit about the mechanics.

    http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/109456-project-eternity-interview.html

    Cluas
  • actionjezus6actionjezus6 Member Posts: 12
    @Rabain Agreed. I've just wanted to point out that ToEE wasn't necessary that bad :)

  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46
    @Rabain Not necessary for a game to be good, but I found it odd to be using games in your pedigree that you would not be able to recreate gameplay for. I confess that I got into Baldur's Gate as an extension of liking D&D, and there are not enough *good* D&D games, however as this new project will not be a D&D game it seems strange that they're comparing this project to some of the best D&D games.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,542
    @mlnevese, I can't read your monetary figures. I assume that 000.000,000 format is some kind of European thing? Can you post a brief explanation of how to convert that to US English format?

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,828
    @belgarathmth Just invert , and .

    100.000,00 = 100,000.00

    BelgarathMTH
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    edited September 2012
    You know what, ladies and gents? I believe Obsidian are making The Black Hound aka Baldur's Gate 3 over there. Sawyer (or another Obsidian leader, I can't find the statement at the moment) said the map excerpt over at the Kickstarter was heavily inspired by the Dalelands/Dragon's Reach region. Also, just a few hours ago they announced how the story will start:

    "The Set-Up
    The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go."

    So, now head over to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound and check the planned setting, the middle of the characters section and the story starting point. Then scroll back up and check who would've been lead designer.

    What do y'all think? Forgotten Realms and D&D ruleset or not, I would be ready to welcome Baldur's Gate 3, by whatever name it might go. Could be nasty for Beamdog, though, if they really get to make a nominal Baldur's Gate 3 while Obsidian makes the spiritual one... All speculation so far, however - but not totally unfounded, I'd wager. Obsidian did in fact sort of make Van Buren with Fallout: New Vegas, after all. This might become the second coup.

    HoebaggerAlejandroBugrat
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