I really like how enemies don't respawn in this game. I clear an area and it's cleared forever. Plus, I can rest in dungeons without annoying interruptions.
The search for traps mechanic is also a lot better than BG. In BG you have to move at a crawl or you risk setting off traps even when searching, because most of the times it doesn't detect them right away and it takes a few seconds. In BG you also can't stealth and search at the same time. The mechanic in PoE works a lot more smoothly.
I think the game mechanics of PoE in general is an improvement over BG. But credit to BG that it took some 15 years for something to surpass it.
Though I do prefer the STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA system over the one in PoE. But that might just be nostalgia more than anything.
I don't like the combat system period. And unless someone tells me that the story is a good as the main game I'm going to avoid the expansion packs because I have the impression that these are IWD-like adventures.
Don't get me wrong -- the game was fantastic to look at and I think Durance is my favorite NPC of all time. And what a brainy plot! Loved it.
But riddle me this: While I lurved the plot, while the Durance 'romance' was better than any of the BG2 romances, while the graphics were lovely *and* while the plot was brilliant -- I'm pretty much done with the game after playing it twice.
Why is it that BG2 can be played again and again but PoE . . . possibly three times. Perhaps. Maybe?
I've been wondering this myself, as I've always found the BG saga incredibly replayable. If I had to guess, I'd estimate the grand total of my BG1 playthroughs to be over 60.
I think the answer is well-roundedness. The BG games are very competent - they might not excel in every possible area of gameplay, but they do all of them proficiently. In other words, when I'm playing BG, nothing jumps out at me as being a constant annoyance.
On the other hand, if a game has a clear fault that's apparent during gameplay (and I'd say the combat in PoE qualifies here), it will keep nagging me while I'm playing the game, especially during subsequent playthroughs. This very much limits replayability, in my opinion.
It also helps that BG has more companions, a lot more character customization options, and the various character builds play more differently than they do in PoE.
Yes, it's difficult, but I also don't feel a huge urge to replay PoE, compared to BG.
I agree that more companions and more customisation are factors, along with combat that is more fun and less of a chore, but I think the tone of the the story is also a factor. Stories with a dark tone are interesting, but you wouldn't want to live in them. Where would you rather live? The Shire, Hogwarts, or Westeros?
@Adul PoE doesn't have a "clear fault" in its combat system. Many people like it a lot.
I should have made it more clear that I was talking of my own experience with the game. What I meant to say was, for me, the combat in PoE has clear faults that annoy me while I'm playing the game.
I've been wondering this myself, as I've always found the BG saga incredibly replayable. If I had to guess, I'd estimate the grand total of my BG1 playthroughs to be over 60.
I think the answer is well-roundedness. The BG games are very competent - they might not excel in every possible area of gameplay, but they do all of them proficiently. In other words, when I'm playing BG, nothing jumps out at me as being a constant annoyance.
On the other hand, if a game has a clear fault that's apparent during gameplay (and I'd say the combat in PoE qualifies here), it will keep nagging me while I'm playing the game, especially during subsequent playthroughs. This very much limits replayability, in my opinion.
It also helps that BG has more companions, a lot more character customization options, and the various character builds play more differently than they do in PoE.
I think most of what keeps me from doing another play though is the lack of new NPCs to try. In BG there's always some new party composition to try, with PoE I feel like a did I it all already.
But I don't think there's some magic dust that makes a game like baldurs gate. We are a very small niche on this forum, and our perspective is skewed heavily towards BG. When you're playing through a game 60 times that's probably more you than the game. Most people don't play BG 60 times, and most people don't play PoE 60 times, but some people will. For BG that's us. For PoE that's someone else.
Good answers. All of them. I think @Fardragon is on to something. There places on the BG1 map that seem downright pleasant. Made me think: perhaps I can use all this gold fix up that broken lighthouse . . . And I thank my lucky stars I wasn't born in Westeros.
And yeah, like @Adul I'm annoyed by the combat system. Not saying that others should agree, it's just not my cuppa tea.
I plan to do a full replay as well when the second expansion comes out. So far I've only done a singular playthrough, though. I'm playing NWN2 atm and the stronghold in NWN2 is much cooler than PoE's >_< Managing taxes, armies, and the surrounding towns is actually surprisingly SUPER fun.
I'm trying to create a list of "My Favorite Games of All Time" and listing them in order of most favorite to least. NWN2, Baldur's Gate 1&2 (I count them as one story), and PoE are definitely going to be on that list.
After a long hiatus, I have finally returned back to PoE. Steam claims I have played 170 hours, and I suppose that sounds accurate. I was afraid my chronic restartitis would cause me to try the game over from scratch (I still haven't beaten it yet, nor have I bought the expansion yet), but after playing just one new character I went back to my furthest-advanced and best-loved character so far: Zellana Mizzadri, my female pale elven Darcozzi Paladini who specializes with an estoc. I think I'm in... Act 3? 4? (Without giving anything away, I just talked to some... sisters, and I was looking at some constellations. Still have some side quests to do yet.)
So, my head spun a little when I realized that Perception adds to accuracy now instead of deflection. Zellana's Perception is buffed to 18 (and her Resolve is 18), she used to be a tank/damage dealer who could dish it out with the best of them but still take some hits. Now she's a little bit more squishy, and critting like a three-tusked stelgaer (I beat my previous critical hit record recently with a hit for 85, not bad for a woman with 13 base Might). Paladins and rangers may get some tough love (or hate), but Zellana has dealt about twice as much total damage as anyone else in the party, including Aloth with his blast shenanigans and fireballs. If the game lasted forever, Aloth and Sagani might overtake her one day, but I don't think Pallegina ever will since I split her talents between offense and defense.
So, on the topic of "Why don't I replay PoE like I replay BG?" I think people have struck upon the right idea that 1.) a dark game is more mentally/emotionally taxing than a lighthearted game; 2.) more companions means more dialogue and more party setups, leading to ideas like The "C" Team or The All-Bow Party or The Everybody Hates Eldoth Party (maximized dialogue options); 3.) more character class/kit options leads to more protagonist ideas, and talents/class abilities only go so far when the list is somewhat limited like this.
Overall I am enjoying my return to PoE, climbing back on the horse after so long hasn't been as difficult as I thought and my character feels better than ever (rather than nerfed). There are a few annoying little bugs that I hope get cleaned up soon, but none of them have been game-breaking so far so I can deal with it.
What are you the most proud of when it comes to Pillars of Eternity and what would you do differently from today’s perspective?
Josh Sawyer: I don’t think there’s one specific thing, but the game as a whole. Our goal was to make a spiritual successor to the Infinity Engine games and I feel that, for the most part, we accomplished that. In retrospect, we should have had more stronghold content and the mega-dungeon (Od Nua) wore thin after a while. Would have preferred to have more content in the stronghold and to spread those dungeon levels around to make existing dungeons feel more substantial.
How is your work on The White March - Part II going? Will the game be comparable to the first part in terms of size?
Josh Sawyer: It’s going well and it should be comparable in overall size and gameplay length. We learned a lot from working on the base game and Part I, so we’re trying to apply all of that to Part II. The scale of things kicks up after you relight the White Forge and we hope people will enjoy the progression from the relatively modest problems of Stalwart to the wild ‘n crazy ending.
I assume that you won’t be able to tell me anything about what you’re currently working on, but there are lots of possibilities on the horizon. Pillars of Eternity 2, full-fledged RPG in Pathfinder universe that you were considering. Paradox acquired rights to the universe of the World of Darkness, I’m sure a lot of gamers would be really excited to hear that you’re making an RPG in this rich world. When can we expect any official announcements?
Feargus Urquhart: Not to tease, but we will have news in the next two or three months. We absolutely are looking at crowdfunding one of our next titles as well, so we’ll have news on that soon. I can say it’s been fun to sit around and talk with Tim Cain, Game Director of the original Fallout, about ideas for our next thing. I wish I could talk about it more.
Both The Witcher III and PoE are amazing games, it's no surprises they're tied at the moment.
I think the Witcher III is more popular, I mean, more people have played and tried it, if compared to PoE, so I tend to think it will win in the end. The PoE's aim, after all, was not to become a game for everybody. It's just the game for those who like IE games, like us.
If you ask me, I would vote PoE - with all the awesomeness the Witcher III has, PoE proved isometric RPGs could and should be made nowadays.
Sad to see SR Hong Kong so far behind the others, but SR Dragonfall was a much better game and that was last year.
I backed it on Kickstarter, but I still haven't started my game yet. I did play through SRR and Dragonfall again recently. I'll have to wait until I finish PoE. After PoE I'll play SRHK, then Wasteland 2. I'm still waiting for Divinity Original Sin to be on sale at least 50% off.
I just wanted to drop in and say that after so much waiting, I finally grabbed PoE during the Steam holiday sale and just got to try it out two days ago.
AJGI;EJAFIE;JSAIGOJEASOIFJEOAJFOEJASIFJESA;F THIS GAME IS SO PRETTY!
I'm a huge fan of that character creator and its many appearance options. The world building is also extremely interesting to me--the stuff about the adra and the concepts they have around souls is very well-done so far.
Combat was pretty simple up until I got mauled by a family of boars out in the wilderness. Holy poopskillet, these animals hit hard and fast! o_o;; So far it seems I have little trouble when I'm going against just one enemy, but when it's a group, combat becomes a lot more dangerous. I blame flanking. But that's realistic, and I like it.
Still getting used to the spellcasting... Because it's a new spell library, it's a little difficult to find out which spells are good and which ones aren't. But that's also part of the fun! What I don't like so far is that Durance doesn't have any spells that heal hit points. Plenty that heal endurance, which is nice, but none that I've seen that heal hit points!
My first character's a ranger, with a boar companion. ^_^
They have really managed to pull the best of all the Infinity Engine games into this with the two expansions. A solid main quest that straddles the line between BG1 and 2, and character creation and party options that let you go any way you choose, and a expansion theme that hearkens to Icewind Dale, and an underlying lore that can be as deep as Planescape. I'm not sure what you're looking for in a classical RPG if you can't find a way to love this game. It's long, it's deep, and while it's not QUITE as replayable as the BG series yet, the addition of a few more NPCs in the second expansion might move it right up there.
My only gripe with the game is that it is REALLY poorly optimized. My PC runs most games of this type fairly well, but PoE runs pretty poorly. Loading screens take forever! But, yeah. It's a fantastic game overall. I'm looking forward to the second expansion coming out so I can start a new, full play through.
Comments
The search for traps mechanic is also a lot better than BG. In BG you have to move at a crawl or you risk setting off traps even when searching, because most of the times it doesn't detect them right away and it takes a few seconds. In BG you also can't stealth and search at the same time. The mechanic in PoE works a lot more smoothly.
I think the game mechanics of PoE in general is an improvement over BG. But credit to BG that it took some 15 years for something to surpass it.
Though I do prefer the STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA system over the one in PoE. But that might just be nostalgia more than anything.
Don't get me wrong -- the game was fantastic to look at and I think Durance is my favorite NPC of all time. And what a brainy plot! Loved it.
But riddle me this: While I lurved the plot, while the Durance 'romance' was better than any of the BG2 romances, while the graphics were lovely *and* while the plot was brilliant -- I'm pretty much done with the game after playing it twice.
Why is it that BG2 can be played again and again but PoE . . . possibly three times. Perhaps. Maybe?
What makes a game replayable?
I think the answer is well-roundedness. The BG games are very competent - they might not excel in every possible area of gameplay, but they do all of them proficiently. In other words, when I'm playing BG, nothing jumps out at me as being a constant annoyance.
On the other hand, if a game has a clear fault that's apparent during gameplay (and I'd say the combat in PoE qualifies here), it will keep nagging me while I'm playing the game, especially during subsequent playthroughs. This very much limits replayability, in my opinion.
It also helps that BG has more companions, a lot more character customization options, and the various character builds play more differently than they do in PoE.
I agree that more companions and more customisation are factors, along with combat that is more fun and less of a chore, but I think the tone of the the story is also a factor. Stories with a dark tone are interesting, but you wouldn't want to live in them. Where would you rather live? The Shire, Hogwarts, or Westeros?
But I don't think there's some magic dust that makes a game like baldurs gate. We are a very small niche on this forum, and our perspective is skewed heavily towards BG. When you're playing through a game 60 times that's probably more you than the game. Most people don't play BG 60 times, and most people don't play PoE 60 times, but some people will. For BG that's us. For PoE that's someone else.
And yeah, like @Adul I'm annoyed by the combat system. Not saying that others should agree, it's just not my cuppa tea.
Managing taxes, armies, and the surrounding towns is actually surprisingly SUPER fun.
I'm trying to create a list of "My Favorite Games of All Time" and listing them in order of most favorite to least. NWN2, Baldur's Gate 1&2 (I count them as one story), and PoE are definitely going to be on that list.
So, my head spun a little when I realized that Perception adds to accuracy now instead of deflection. Zellana's Perception is buffed to 18 (and her Resolve is 18), she used to be a tank/damage dealer who could dish it out with the best of them but still take some hits. Now she's a little bit more squishy, and critting like a three-tusked stelgaer (I beat my previous critical hit record recently with a hit for 85, not bad for a woman with 13 base Might). Paladins and rangers may get some tough love (or hate), but Zellana has dealt about twice as much total damage as anyone else in the party, including Aloth with his blast shenanigans and fireballs. If the game lasted forever, Aloth and Sagani might overtake her one day, but I don't think Pallegina ever will since I split her talents between offense and defense.
So, on the topic of "Why don't I replay PoE like I replay BG?" I think people have struck upon the right idea that 1.) a dark game is more mentally/emotionally taxing than a lighthearted game; 2.) more companions means more dialogue and more party setups, leading to ideas like The "C" Team or The All-Bow Party or The Everybody Hates Eldoth Party (maximized dialogue options); 3.) more character class/kit options leads to more protagonist ideas, and talents/class abilities only go so far when the list is somewhat limited like this.
Overall I am enjoying my return to PoE, climbing back on the horse after so long hasn't been as difficult as I thought and my character feels better than ever (rather than nerfed). There are a few annoying little bugs that I hope get cleaned up soon, but none of them have been game-breaking so far so I can deal with it.
TL;DR: Rawr.
What are you the most proud of when it comes to Pillars of Eternity and what would you do differently from today’s perspective?
Josh Sawyer: I don’t think there’s one specific thing, but the game as a whole. Our goal was to make a spiritual successor to the Infinity Engine games and I feel that, for the most part, we accomplished that. In retrospect, we should have had more stronghold content and the mega-dungeon (Od Nua) wore thin after a while. Would have preferred to have more content in the stronghold and to spread those dungeon levels around to make existing dungeons feel more substantial.
How is your work on The White March - Part II going? Will the game be comparable to the first part in terms of size?
Josh Sawyer: It’s going well and it should be comparable in overall size and gameplay length. We learned a lot from working on the base game and Part I, so we’re trying to apply all of that to Part II. The scale of things kicks up after you relight the White Forge and we hope people will enjoy the progression from the relatively modest problems of Stalwart to the wild ‘n crazy ending.
I assume that you won’t be able to tell me anything about what you’re currently working on, but there are lots of possibilities on the horizon. Pillars of Eternity 2, full-fledged RPG in Pathfinder universe that you were considering. Paradox acquired rights to the universe of the World of Darkness, I’m sure a lot of gamers would be really excited to hear that you’re making an RPG in this rich world. When can we expect any official announcements?
Feargus Urquhart: Not to tease, but we will have news in the next two or three months. We absolutely are looking at crowdfunding one of our next titles as well, so we’ll have news on that soon. I can say it’s been fun to sit around and talk with Tim Cain, Game Director of the original Fallout, about ideas for our next thing. I wish I could talk about it more.
I think the Witcher III is more popular, I mean, more people have played and tried it, if compared to PoE, so I tend to think it will win in the end. The PoE's aim, after all, was not to become a game for everybody. It's just the game for those who like IE games, like us.
If you ask me, I would vote PoE - with all the awesomeness the Witcher III has, PoE proved isometric RPGs could and should be made nowadays.
But the quality of both games is high, very high.
I've never heard of greenmangaming.com before, but someone on Steam posted this voucher code:
XMAS20-PERGMG-SVINGS
Using it will dump Pillars of Eternity to $11.20 from it's already $17.99 price.
"This game requires a free Steam account to play."
AJGI;EJAFIE;JSAIGOJEASOIFJEOAJFOEJASIFJESA;F THIS GAME IS SO PRETTY!
I'm a huge fan of that character creator and its many appearance options. The world building is also extremely interesting to me--the stuff about the adra and the concepts they have around souls is very well-done so far.
Combat was pretty simple up until I got mauled by a family of boars out in the wilderness. Holy poopskillet, these animals hit hard and fast! o_o;; So far it seems I have little trouble when I'm going against just one enemy, but when it's a group, combat becomes a lot more dangerous. I blame flanking. But that's realistic, and I like it.
Still getting used to the spellcasting... Because it's a new spell library, it's a little difficult to find out which spells are good and which ones aren't. But that's also part of the fun! What I don't like so far is that Durance doesn't have any spells that heal hit points. Plenty that heal endurance, which is nice, but none that I've seen that heal hit points!
My first character's a ranger, with a boar companion. ^_^
Games I still need to get but can't
Shadowrun Hong Kong
Elemental sorcerer King
Pillars of Eternity
But, yeah. It's a fantastic game overall. I'm looking forward to the second expansion coming out so I can start a new, full play through.