Look if they're making the refund, there's absolutely NO REASON for the bad manner that i witness in this thread, serious.
Don't like the pratice take your money back and go away, it's your right. I'm not an enginer, i'm an attorney, so i gave above a viable solution to satisfy the tempers of the angry customers.
The delay is bad? Yes. But if you can get your money back (as someone already pointed that the refund service is being done very quickly) stop crying a river, take the money and go away. if you think Beamdog owns you something more sue them and be done with it.
I kept a very neutral position (and not neutral by not involving me, but by evaluate the reasons of each side), so i say this with property.
Trend at least is here, speaking with us, the only thing more that is needed, is a note of apology to be put in the main site.
By another side i hope Beamdog look into my previous suggestion, as a 6 month pre-order make the $18,00 paid be worth a lot more based in income.
A delay of two-and-a-half months announced just FOUR DAYS before the original release date?! Dammit, I've been avoiding every other game that's being released around this time specifically because I planned to spend all my time playing this one. Now I need to go spend money on some other game just to have something to play during the wait, despite having already spent money on this one.
Yeah, a more polished product is fine, sure, I support that. But a delay this significant NEEDS to be announced further in advance than this.
And why does my cooking analogy not relate? The chef could likewise be sincere and putting in effort. Still leaves a hungry customer. And if the chef promised 20 minutes, he should deliver, in 20 minutes.
we will be working on something a little extra for you.
As long as it starts with "Vorpal" and ends with "of Speed," I'm down with waiting.
A two-handed Vorpal Mace of Speed?
Ok, enough joking : sorry, but it sucks... I'm not agree with the majority of the people here, but ok, that's my opinion afterall... When I learned that the game was in preordered state, I bought him, immediatly, even if I had just bought all the whole BG serie on gog just a few days ago.
If the game is not finished, ok, it must finished, but I have the disheartened feeling that the delay is to end the others versions than the PC one...
And that, I don't like... And clearly, postponning the game for more than 2 monthes just a few days before the promised release, it's very upsetting, at least, for me, because I preordered it.
I REALLY want to know what EXACTLY need to be finished during more than 2 monthes on the PC version...
Because, on some french gaming magazine, there is some informations about the tablet version of the game, and that : IDC, personally...
I would certainly rather wait and get a product that is finished and well polished, but I have to agree, announcing a 2 month delay 4 days before you ship date seems rather odd. If there are enough problems with the product to warrant that much of a delay, you'd figure there would be indications of that before now. Conversely, this is a small studio releasing a niche product which means they don't have as much money and man power to throw at problems to make them go away, leaving them with only time as the way to fix the product. With games you can either stay true to the vision, and sacrifice money and time see it through, stay true to the budget sacrificing time and vision, or stay true to release date, sacrificing money and vision. Guess which one is the most likely to produce a good game? I'm not thrilled about the delay, but I can either get my money back and move on, or suck it up and wait for what should be an awesome experience.
Fortunately, if my patience wains, I can always break out my orignal copy of Baldur's Gate and go to town...
Now that's out of the way lets get real. Yes, the announcement sucks. Yes, they handled it VERY poorly. Yes, there needs to be a better explanation. Yes, there needs to be an apology. Yes, there needs to be much greater transparency in the future. Yes, some reputational damage has occurred because of the poor handling of the delay.
I would like a proper explanation as to what happened. I am also glad that they would rather delay the release to ensure its quality than release a buggy/unfinished/unpolished product simply to hit a deadline that ultimately was unrealistic for whatever reason.
Announcing 4 days before release is unacceptable, but it happened now deal with it. Gnashing teeth and crying about it helps no one, and achieves nothing.
..., but it happened now deal with it. Gnashing teeth and crying about it helps no one, and achieves nothing.
Just no... With this kind of attitude, you looks like a sheep waiting for the clipper...
I want to know WHY the delay : if it's for a real problem on the game, ok, I can wait, if it's just to wait for the mac and tablet version then NO. I will claim my money back, and see in december if the game is finally released...
I'd like to know the why as well. A decently written paragraph explaining (in general) what caused the date to slip would probably quell a great deal of angst. Unfortunately, getting the "why" is often like trying to pull one of your own wisdom teeth with a pair of rusty vice grips.
Please, just take as long as you want to make it the best possible and get awesome sales and reviews and and and... zillions of turnover that we can FINALLY get the third one!!
I was so sad during the times when 3rd was cancelled :´( All these years so what's a one month added to that, nothing!!!
Just get us the Enhanced of the second too and finally the ultimate Final of the series, years after, The Baldur's Gate 3!!
Baldur's Gate is the Mother and the Father of all RPGs in my heart!!
..., but it happened now deal with it. Gnashing teeth and crying about it helps no one, and achieves nothing.
Just no... With this kind of attitude, you looks like a sheep waiting for the clipper...
I want to know WHY the delay : if it's for a real problem on the game, ok, I can wait, if it's just to wait for the mac and tablet version then NO. I will claim my money back, and see in december if the game is finally released...
JPR out!
Did you read what I wrote? I am not saying people should sit back and accept it. I am saying that we require a reason and an apology, but acting like children about it is idiotic. Gnashing teeth and crying is a childish and pointless exercise, and should be ignored as the immature garbage that it is (and something forums are filled with). Asking questions, and being vocal about it is another matter entirely.
Act like adults not immature children is all I am saying. I am not suggesting just sitting back and keeping your mouth shut.
Guess I am just old school. You live up to the commitments you make. No matter what. If it means paying the difference out of your own pocket, so be it. But it has served me well.
Grumpy and old school aren't synonyms. Some things are harder to predict than others. Peace
Simply, in my experience (18 years now) a game build hits an exponential fix rate for bugs near the end when it solidifies radically in a short time. My hope was we were close to that time, but it appears I was overly optimistic and as a result we have sacrificed to get more time to ensure the build we make is a quality build. We are betting the future of our company and the livelyhood of all the employees on the success of this title. I believe if we build a great game we will succeed and if we shipped a title that was buggy we would be hard pressed to ever move beyond that failure.
-Trent
I really am cool with all of this. You were a little too optimistic, and after some time thinking, I get that, and I'm cool with it. Please don't do this with BGII though. Please learn from this. I want BGIII so badly, but I have a hard time believing it'll happen if a date gets moved two months, four days before release again. Keep up the good work. I think pretty close to all of us are still pulling for you.
Spoken like someone who does not have any idea who the real world works. While some people are in candy land, its easy to forget this is a business they are running.
Hey, maybe you are lucky, but if most all working people ever told their boss their work was not done on time or even a product was not ready for launch, well dont count on having a job. Yeah, the world at large has real sense of entitlement issues.
Or more fanboys have no concept of the real world, because its only in gaming apologists like you toss around words like "Entitlement" and claim people have no right to complain a product they paid for is not delivered on time. This is part of why people dont take gaming seriously, the childish blind fanaticism that lets game companies get away with things regular companies never could.
I am aware of how the world works, thank you very much. So much as to know that using empathy and common sense can take you further than judging everything based on ideals. To put it on a lighter note, and also to avoid throwing insults, you're being too Lawful Neutral for my own liking.
Look, dude, no one is saying you're supposed to be okay with this. Complain if you must. Cancel your order if you feel they don't deserve your money. But don't go spewing terms like "gaming apologists" and fanboys at people just because they are rolling with the new release date.
Game companies get away with things regular companies never could because not every business is the same. There is a major difference between, say, a food company or a medical services company screwing up, and a gaming company making a mistake. I wish I didn't have to use such a cliché argument, but hey, it's just a game after all. There is no real harm being done here except that maybe people will feel ripped off of their money. And in that case they have the option of getting it back. If you're gonna hate them forever for the inconvenience caused, oh well. And that goes back to the whole common sense thing, so I guess I made my point.
... ... ... At the moment I have a +2 bonus to hit and damage, a 15 HP boost and a -2 bonus to AC. I'm also immune to charm, hold, fear, maze, imprisonment, stun, confusion, feeblemind, level drain and sleep. Note: I won't become winded any time soon...
Was bouncing in my seat due to the fact it was ready for September 18(preordered it a couple days after preordering began), came on today, found out it isn't out till the 30th of November. Making it perfect though is by far the more important thing.
Game companies get away with things regular companies never could because not every business is the same. There is a major difference between, say, a food company or a medical services company screwing up, and a gaming company making a mistake. I wish I didn't have to use such a cliché argument, but hey, it's just a game after all. There is no real harm being done here except that maybe people will feel ripped off of their money. And in that case they have the option of getting it back. If you're gonna hate them forever for the inconvenience caused, oh well. And that goes back to the whole common sense thing, so I guess I made my point.
You do realize even most software companies, IE Business software, all the way up to Windows itself doesnt get a free pass right? Thats not the Food industry or the automotive industry its still the Computer Software market, yet games get a free pass due to sheep mentality of gamers. I can tell you Microsoft or other business companies do not get away with missed release dates and indeed you have very angry companies when their software is not delivered on the release date. In cases Millions of dollars are lost.
Gaming doesnt get taken seriously is why this happens, its a well known fact most gamers act like sheep which is why gaming companies are allowed to proceed with anti consumer behavior.
At least thanks to this thread I just realized that there was a sequel to IWD1!!! I just ordered IWD2 and will have something to keep myself busy with until 30 November...
At least thanks to this thread I just realized that there was a sequel to IWD1!!! I just ordered IWD2 and will have something to keep myself busy with until 30 November...
Better than IWD1 IMO so you should have fun.
also: "@TrentOster I'm going home and to bed. Made the mistake of reading some negative feedback. Killed my motivation to work past 10:30 pm on a Friday night"
I don't care about the delay at all but geez, what on earth did you expect to happen? Ridiculous attitude.
Making it perfect though is by far the more important thing.
Esp on new platforms. Most us will buy into the pc product delays or no. The gold mine of this overhaul (& the long term viability of IdeaSpark et al) will be valued bythe success of the iPad/android ports. get those right.
Game companies get away with things regular companies never could because not every business is the same. There is a major difference between, say, a food company or a medical services company screwing up, and a gaming company making a mistake. I wish I didn't have to use such a cliché argument, but hey, it's just a game after all. There is no real harm being done here except that maybe people will feel ripped off of their money. And in that case they have the option of getting it back. If you're gonna hate them forever for the inconvenience caused, oh well. And that goes back to the whole common sense thing, so I guess I made my point.
You do realize even most software companies, IE Business software, all the way up to Windows itself doesnt get a free pass right? Thats not the Food industry or the automotive industry its still the Computer Software market, yet games get a free pass due to sheep mentality of gamers. I can tell you Microsoft or other business companies do not get away with missed release dates and indeed you have very angry companies when their software is not delivered on the release date. In cases Millions of dollars are lost.
Gaming doesnt get taken seriously is why this happens, its a well known fact most gamers act like sheep which is why gaming companies are allowed to proceed with anti consumer behavior.
Your theories are quite "unique". You claim that delays are always severely punished in all other industries, and that games arent taken seriously because gamers don't get mad enough about sticking to release dates. Then you call gamers sheep. More sheep-like than consumers of other entertainment that does get taken seriously, like TV and movies? Small budget software gets pushed back all the time. Not just in games. And for the sake of argument, what should these devs have done? Do you think they've been slacking? Hoarding their gold instead of spending it on getting work done? Too many coke and hooker parties? If you have some evidence, please share. Otherwise, it just seems you are mad that the estimated date was wrong. There was no contract signed. I sure would hate to work for you were my kid to break his arm or my car to die or something.
I'm all for a civil tone, but saying beta testers and devs are more frustrated then the rest of us who only have a couple of screenshots from the game - yeah that makes no sense.
Well, i put more than $20 in this game ($18 if preordered), i mean many of the volunteers spend time on this which could be used earning more than the $20. Above that, i'm just the same player who waited a long time for something like BGEE. The only thing that might ease our frustration is that we learned this less of a sudden, but i'm not sure that taking poison in small doses is better than a single big dose. The delay in communication can be explained by the many rightholders that may have a veto.
I think i get it why they pushed the date back. This isn't an original game, it's a remake. That means the whole point of it is that's a polished version of it. If it's not completely polished then people will come back saying they just released the old game without doing anything. So they probably need to make sure it's almost sparkling when it comes out.
Comments
Don't like the pratice take your money back and go away, it's your right. I'm not an enginer, i'm an attorney, so i gave above a viable solution to satisfy the tempers of the angry customers.
The delay is bad? Yes. But if you can get your money back (as someone already pointed that the refund service is being done very quickly) stop crying a river, take the money and go away. if you think Beamdog owns you something more sue them and be done with it.
I kept a very neutral position (and not neutral by not involving me, but by evaluate the reasons of each side), so i say this with property.
Trend at least is here, speaking with us, the only thing more that is needed, is a note of apology to be put in the main site.
By another side i hope Beamdog look into my previous suggestion, as a 6 month pre-order make the $18,00 paid be worth a lot more based in income.
Yeah, a more polished product is fine, sure, I support that. But a delay this significant NEEDS to be announced further in advance than this.
And why does my cooking analogy not relate? The chef could likewise be sincere and putting in effort. Still leaves a hungry customer. And if the chef promised 20 minutes, he should deliver, in 20 minutes.
The refund thing is good though, shows sincerity.
Ok, enough joking : sorry, but it sucks... I'm not agree with the majority of the people here, but ok, that's my opinion afterall... When I learned that the game was in preordered state, I bought him, immediatly, even if I had just bought all the whole BG serie on gog just a few days ago.
If the game is not finished, ok, it must finished, but I have the disheartened feeling that the delay is to end the others versions than the PC one...
And that, I don't like... And clearly, postponning the game for more than 2 monthes just a few days before the promised release, it's very upsetting, at least, for me, because I preordered it.
I REALLY want to know what EXACTLY need to be finished during more than 2 monthes on the PC version...
Because, on some french gaming magazine, there is some informations about the tablet version of the game, and that : IDC, personally...
JPR out!
Fortunately, if my patience wains, I can always break out my orignal copy of Baldur's Gate and go to town...
Now that's out of the way lets get real.
Yes, the announcement sucks.
Yes, they handled it VERY poorly.
Yes, there needs to be a better explanation.
Yes, there needs to be an apology.
Yes, there needs to be much greater transparency in the future.
Yes, some reputational damage has occurred because of the poor handling of the delay.
I would like a proper explanation as to what happened. I am also glad that they would rather delay the release to ensure its quality than release a buggy/unfinished/unpolished product simply to hit a deadline that ultimately was unrealistic for whatever reason.
Announcing 4 days before release is unacceptable, but it happened now deal with it. Gnashing teeth and crying about it helps no one, and achieves nothing.
I want to know WHY the delay : if it's for a real problem on the game, ok, I can wait, if it's just to wait for the mac and tablet version then NO. I will claim my money back, and see in december if the game is finally released...
JPR out!
I was so sad during the times when 3rd was cancelled :´( All these years so what's a one month added to that, nothing!!!
Just get us the Enhanced of the second too and finally the ultimate Final of the series, years after, The Baldur's Gate 3!!
Baldur's Gate is the Mother and the Father of all RPGs in my heart!!
Cheers,
Lady Nerd
JPR out!
I am not saying people should sit back and accept it. I am saying that we require a reason and an apology, but acting like children about it is idiotic. Gnashing teeth and crying is a childish and pointless exercise, and should be ignored as the immature garbage that it is (and something forums are filled with). Asking questions, and being vocal about it is another matter entirely.
Act like adults not immature children is all I am saying. I am not suggesting just sitting back and keeping your mouth shut.
Some things are harder to predict than others.
Peace
Look, dude, no one is saying you're supposed to be okay with this. Complain if you must. Cancel your order if you feel they don't deserve your money. But don't go spewing terms like "gaming apologists" and fanboys at people just because they are rolling with the new release date.
Game companies get away with things regular companies never could because not every business is the same. There is a major difference between, say, a food company or a medical services company screwing up, and a gaming company making a mistake. I wish I didn't have to use such a cliché argument, but hey, it's just a game after all. There is no real harm being done here except that maybe people will feel ripped off of their money. And in that case they have the option of getting it back. If you're gonna hate them forever for the inconvenience caused, oh well. And that goes back to the whole common sense thing, so I guess I made my point.
...
...
At the moment I have a +2 bonus to hit and damage, a 15 HP boost and a -2 bonus to AC. I'm also immune to charm, hold, fear, maze, imprisonment, stun, confusion, feeblemind, level drain and sleep.
Note: I won't become winded any time soon...
Gaming doesnt get taken seriously is why this happens, its a well known fact most gamers act like sheep which is why gaming companies are allowed to proceed with anti consumer behavior.
also: "@TrentOster
I'm going home and to bed. Made the mistake of reading some negative feedback. Killed my motivation to work past 10:30 pm on a Friday night"
I don't care about the delay at all but geez, what on earth did you expect to happen? Ridiculous attitude.
You claim that delays are always severely punished in all other industries, and that games arent taken seriously because gamers don't get mad enough about sticking to release dates. Then you call gamers sheep. More sheep-like than consumers of other entertainment that does get taken seriously, like TV and movies?
Small budget software gets pushed back all the time. Not just in games.
And for the sake of argument, what should these devs have done? Do you think they've been slacking? Hoarding their gold instead of spending it on getting work done? Too many coke and hooker parties? If you have some evidence, please share. Otherwise, it just seems you are mad that the estimated date was wrong. There was no contract signed.
I sure would hate to work for you were my kid to break his arm or my car to die or something.
Christ... get a life dudes. Its a game, not a f***** trial of a life sentence !
The delay in communication can be explained by the many rightholders that may have a veto.
This isn't an original game, it's a remake.
That means the whole point of it is that's a polished version of it.
If it's not completely polished then people will come back saying they just released the old game without doing anything.
So they probably need to make sure it's almost sparkling when it comes out.