well, i'm somewhat glad that community at large seems to be taking this so well and being supportive.
i understand if you need extra time to make the better end product and if it's not ready now then there is no helping it. but i'm pissed off at a surprise announcement TWO AND A HALF months delay THREE day before the scheduled release. that would explain the suspicious three day silence i guess. great work on preparing us. very smooth.
of course, i still wish this to be great game and i trust developers will put the best of efforts into it. i hope this means we get highly polished game with no need for post release patching. not that it matters, but i think i will take a break from following news and a forum for the time being.
Somewhere deep inside, I guess you could tell. Barely any previews, with things feeling a little rushed (the UI-design betas), and nothing really solid for us customers to hold onto this close to release. Beamdog delaying things not only for one month, but two - that tells me some bigger adjustments were needed, and I wonder why no one realized it until now - or had the guts to bring the matter up earlier..
Hopefully nothing will be rushed now - I'm glad for the dev team, hopefully being able to sit calmly around the table for the first time in weeks to discuss new possibilities of improvements. Had it not been for looking forward to the game so much, I'd be fine with it. At the moment though, my concern goes to the ones taking time off work to play.
Communication really is the issue at hand. But bear in mind the situation these guys are in. I'm sure there are multiple iron clad NDAs involved between all of the parties. There are a lot of cooks in this kitchen when it comes to official press releases. This is one of the reasons why remakes like this don't happen all the time. I think it just comes with the territory. If you want to work with someone else's IP you have to make concessions regarding transparency. I have to believe that they would have been more upfront if it were possible.
I'd rather have the game and deal with a veil of silence than have them say them say the project isn't worth the effort. I'm sure they're doing their best and will ship something very nice when it's ready.
I just wanted to pop back in to address one point.
You have every right as a customer to express your anger, your frustration, your disappointment. But to the folks insinuating (or outright saying) that the Sept. 18 date was never a real goal--as a beta tester I took it very seriously, as did the other beta testers, and we're really frustrated and disappointed we didn't make the date. The only people more frustrated than us are the devs themselves. No one is happy with this, and the anger and frustration in this thread is shared.
By all means, express your rights as a customer, but let's all at least try to keep the tone civil.
I'm all for a civil tone, but saying beta testers and devs are more frustrated then the rest of us who only have a couple of screenshots from the game - yeah that makes no sense.
Why doesn't it? I'm confident they are more emotionally invested than most of us, you included.
I am so mad though! Because I know that they saw this coming. Anyway, I'll get over it. Gods help the first kobold I see, though, as that guy is going to pay!
This is a good example of whats wrong with the gaming industry today. People who blindly support bad business practices. People said this kind of thing in the past, excusing anti consumer behavior, and we got EA, Acitivision etc all because of apologists.
History has proved many, many times before delays do NOT make a better game. Bad communication does not either. They made it seem like Sept 18th was set in stone with the big marketing campaign to bring in more money, and to come three days before and say, sorry, we are delaying feels like a scam.
I understand the frustration but I do not think is an example of anti-consumer behavior and blindly supporting bad business practices. It's never bad business practice to give customers information, especially if it's negative. I also don't think anyone can say for certain that this was done at the last minute. The legal relationships between business entities are complex. It's quite possible that the realization that there needed to be a delayed release date took place quite some time ago and it finally was cleared through the proper channels to make an announcement today. Certifications for platforms can take a hell of a long time as well. It's inconvenient that the announcement came so late, but it makes absolutely no sense that Beamdog would be sitting on this information for any longer than absolutely necessary.
This does not mean that I think people don't have the right to be upset and frustrated with this event, just that I can't see how any of this was done intentionally, with malice, or without as much consideration for customers as possible.
It's just one of those things and I blame George Bush.
I'm all for a civil tone, but saying beta testers and devs are more frustrated then the rest of us who only have a couple of screenshots from the game - yeah that makes no sense.
Why doesn't it? I'm confident they are more emotionally invested than most of us, you included.
I'm not sure I like where this is going, as a contest about who cares more will not end well. Since I'm the one who started it, I apologize, as it was not my intent to dismiss the concerns of anyone.
The broader point I was trying to make is simply that the beta testers and the devs both have personal investments in the success of the game, that we're also really frustrated, and that this was not a decision that came lightly. I believe it was the right decision, or I wouldn't be spending my time in the thread.
Speaking personally, I've spent over a decade now with the Infinity Engine (not always on the best of terms!) and I really, really want BGEE to be done well, as so much rides on its success.
I have to say, beamdog has a very prompt customer service, at least.
I got a refund very quickly and was able to go right over to GOG.com and purchase BG and other games in their sale, download a couple mods get back to faerun long before November 30th (if then..).
I'll buy the EE still, thats for sure, but now I want to see a finished product before Beamdog sees any money. A three month delay a couple days before release is not only bad communication but very unprofessional, so my trust in them to deliver a product is shaken, I feel like they took advantage of people with the big September push to get more money before they dropped this on us. The least they could have done was offer a open beta.
I just wanted to pop back in to address one point.
You have every right as a customer to express your anger, your frustration, your disappointment. But to the folks insinuating (or outright saying) that the Sept. 18 date was never a real goal--as a beta tester I took it very seriously, as did the other beta testers, and we're really frustrated and disappointed we didn't make the date. The only people more frustrated than us are the devs themselves. No one is happy with this, and the anger and frustration in this thread is shared.
By all means, express your rights as a customer, but let's all at least try to keep the tone civil.
I'm all for a civil tone, but saying beta testers and devs are more frustrated then the rest of us who only have a couple of screenshots from the game - yeah that makes no sense.
Why doesn't it? I'm confident they are more emotionally invested than most of us, you included.
You do realize they have the game, right? Let me shed a tear for the emotionally stressed beta testers who are playing the game as we speak [/sarcasm] Personally, I'm fine with the delay, but the level of fanboism on this thread is repulsive. Judging by this thread, the devs should announce the release date in November and delay it again, a couple of days before the release. It seems the community likes it that way. I'm sure there will be a lot of people whose schedule is busy till February anyway, and also a lot of people who will have other games to finish, not to mention that the game will be much more polished if it came out in February. Go delays !
Why can't we have the current version now? I don't care if I have to retstart a character 2.5 months from now. I'll probably be back anyway since you're doing so many changes.
Personally, I'm fine with the delay, but the level of fanboism on this thread is repulsive. Judging by this thread, the devs should announce the release date in November and delay it again, a couple of days before the release. It seems the community likes it that way. I'm sure there will be a lot of people whose schedule is busy till February anyway, and also a lot of people who will have other games to finish, not to mention that the game will be much more polished if it came out in February. Go delays !
The degree of anger over a delayed released date for a $17.99 game is repulsive and the accusations of rampant fanboism is childish. If you're not a fan of the game, you don't belong here. Raging at an unexpected and unavoidable delay is the sign of an unreasonable mind, in my opinion. Get a refund if you want use of your money until the game comes out. Then Beamdog won't owe anyone anything.
Disappointment is one thing; hurling insults is quite another.
Why can't we have the current version now? I don't care if I have to retstart a character 2.5 months from now. I'll probably be back anyway since you're doing so many changes.
Beamdog has to much integrity to ship an unfinished product. To many other companies do not have the courage to do the same and they eventually develop a bad reputation.
BG isn't a random game being made by a random company. This is a 13 years legend that has a lot of fans being made by some of the original devs, with a lot of modders helping on the make (i believe).
The "status quo" here, unlike other companies is to support the devs. If someone come and officialy explain the reason of this delay, 80% or more of the community will probally support the devs option. i give some credit to some conspiracy theories but no matter what if Team BG share the problem with us i truly believe the community will be a lot supportive.
This forum and this project is maked by an unique issue, the devs are among us, they're not someone untouchable, that we can treat as a machine that must be perfect. An sincere explanation will render an almost total support from this community, the true fans understand the delay we're not asking for the impossible we're asking for you devs to share the weight of this responsability.
Trend told that "...thousands of you posted suggestions and requests on our forums...", because of it we feel part of this project, exploit this point when officialy explain the delay and believe me that all the true BG fans will be at the devs side.
BG is the spearhead of many Enhancement projects, it's more than just belief in the devs as we wish to belief and we wish to see this project being succeful.
So again, in game terms, take all the time needed to produce the better game, i will not complain. But in public relations issue, don't let us in the dark, share the problem with the community and the community will feel part of the project instead of encumbrancer of a product.
I have to agree, the beta testers arent more invested then customers, they are more bias. They've been playing the game and will continue to play till whenever it gets released. Offering them sympathy is the same as offering sympathy to a Billionaire that has had his taxes increased.
In other words, this doesnt bother them much, they have the game already. Beamdog really should have offered a Closed Beta program everyone could sign up for so long as they signed a NDA.
In other words, this doesnt bother them much, they have the game already. Beamdog really should have offered a Closed Beta program everyone could sign up for so long as they signed a NDA.
While I see your point, closed beta programs usually don't require NDAs and it would be extremely hard to manage with a large number of people participating, not to mention introducing a legal NDA requirement could potentially increase costs if people violate it (which they're guaranteed to do). I think a closed beta is a good idea though.
In other words, this doesnt bother them much, they have the game already. Beamdog really should have offered a Closed Beta program everyone could sign up for so long as they signed a NDA.
While I see your point, closed beta programs usually don't require NDAs and it would be extremely hard to manage with a large number of people participating, not to mention introducing a legal NDA requirement could potentially increase costs if people violate it (which they're guaranteed to do). I think a closed beta is a good idea though.
I've actually participated in alot of closed betas that involved a NDA actually, some run by smaller companies, so its more common then you might think. Im a Semi Pro beta tester you can say, since I havent steped up to doing full on QA.
Yes, because if you are not a fanboy, you insult people. There is simply no middle ground here. Pick a side and let either nerdrage or overly attached fanboism fly. Got it.
I've actually participated in alot of closed betas that involved a NDA actually, some run by smaller companies, so its more common then you might think. Im a Semi Pro beta tester you can say, since I havent steped up to doing full on QA.
On a serious note; Shame, but im 100% sure its for the best. And i do like the sound of the "extra" thing for the people who preorderd. I also get to focus on Borderlands 2 while i wait :>
So 4 days to go then... 2 and a half month delay? Really? ...Really?
What happened during the final touches and tweaks (which I HAVE to assume was all that was being done this close to release date) that broke the game so much as to push it back TWO AND A HALF MONTHS?! ...4 days left then the wheels fall off (apparently) and now we're set back 2.5 months? REALLY?
Comments
i understand if you need extra time to make the better end product and if it's not ready now then there is no helping it. but i'm pissed off at a surprise announcement TWO AND A HALF months delay THREE day before the scheduled release. that would explain the suspicious three day silence i guess. great work on preparing us. very smooth.
of course, i still wish this to be great game and i trust developers will put the best of efforts into it. i hope this means we get highly polished game with no need for post release patching.
not that it matters, but i think i will take a break from following news and a forum for the time being.
Hopefully nothing will be rushed now - I'm glad for the dev team, hopefully being able to sit calmly around the table for the first time in weeks to discuss new possibilities of improvements. Had it not been for looking forward to the game so much, I'd be fine with it. At the moment though, my concern goes to the ones taking time off work to play.
I'd rather have the game and deal with a veil of silence than have them say them say the project isn't worth the effort. I'm sure they're doing their best and will ship something very nice when it's ready.
Sword, meet evil. Evil, meet sword!!!
Options for "Does not agree" and "Does not like" have to be made =/
RAGE
This does not mean that I think people don't have the right to be upset and frustrated with this event, just that I can't see how any of this was done intentionally, with malice, or without as much consideration for customers as possible.
It's just one of those things and I blame George Bush.
The broader point I was trying to make is simply that the beta testers and the devs both have personal investments in the success of the game, that we're also really frustrated, and that this was not a decision that came lightly. I believe it was the right decision, or I wouldn't be spending my time in the thread.
Speaking personally, I've spent over a decade now with the Infinity Engine (not always on the best of terms!) and I really, really want BGEE to be done well, as so much rides on its success.
I got a refund very quickly and was able to go right over to GOG.com and purchase BG and other games in their sale, download a couple mods get back to faerun long before November 30th (if then..).
I'll buy the EE still, thats for sure, but now I want to see a finished product before Beamdog sees any money. A three month delay a couple days before release is not only bad communication but very unprofessional, so my trust in them to deliver a product is shaken, I feel like they took advantage of people with the big September push to get more money before they dropped this on us. The least they could have done was offer a open beta.
Let me shed a tear for the emotionally stressed beta testers who are playing the game as we speak [/sarcasm]
Personally, I'm fine with the delay, but the level of fanboism on this thread is repulsive. Judging by this thread, the devs should announce the release date in November and delay it again, a couple of days before the release. It seems the community likes it that way. I'm sure there will be a lot of people whose schedule is busy till February anyway, and also a lot of people who will have other games to finish, not to mention that the game will be much more polished if it came out in February. Go delays !
Disappointment is one thing; hurling insults is quite another.
The "status quo" here, unlike other companies is to support the devs. If someone come and officialy explain the reason of this delay, 80% or more of the community will probally support the devs option. i give some credit to some conspiracy theories but no matter what if Team BG share the problem with us i truly believe the community will be a lot supportive.
This forum and this project is maked by an unique issue, the devs are among us, they're not someone untouchable, that we can treat as a machine that must be perfect. An sincere explanation will render an almost total support from this community, the true fans understand the delay we're not asking for the impossible we're asking for you devs to share the weight of this responsability.
Trend told that "...thousands of you posted suggestions and requests on our forums...", because of it we feel part of this project, exploit this point when officialy explain the delay and believe me that all the true BG fans will be at the devs side.
BG is the spearhead of many Enhancement projects, it's more than just belief in the devs as we wish to belief and we wish to see this project being succeful.
So again, in game terms, take all the time needed to produce the better game, i will not complain. But in public relations issue, don't let us in the dark, share the problem with the community and the community will feel part of the project instead of encumbrancer of a product.
2 months and a half to wait.
Disappointed.
In other words, this doesnt bother them much, they have the game already. Beamdog really should have offered a Closed Beta program everyone could sign up for so long as they signed a NDA.
There is simply no middle ground here.
Pick a side and let either nerdrage or overly attached fanboism fly.
Got it.
On a serious note; Shame, but im 100% sure its for the best. And i do like the sound of the "extra" thing for the people who preorderd. I also get to focus on Borderlands 2 while i wait :>
What happened during the final touches and tweaks (which I HAVE to assume was all that was being done this close to release date) that broke the game so much as to push it back TWO AND A HALF MONTHS?! ...4 days left then the wheels fall off (apparently) and now we're set back 2.5 months? REALLY?
This doesn't smell right at all...