@TrentOster "I do apologize for the lateness of the push back as we needed to get both Wizards and Atari approval and had to at least get verbal approval on the contractual changes required."
You get approval to change some of the original content!!!??? Well that's an awersome new (if i get it right). I would truly like to know what changes are possible now, if what i presume really happend, this delay, from my point of view, start to become more acceptable. Yet something must be done for the negative publicity derived from the delay.
Our goal with the delay was to go back to basics and ensure we can deliver a better quality product. The end of November gives us a high confidence we can deliver the the quality of product we have in mind. I do apologize for the lateness of the push back as we needed to get both Wizards and Atari approval and had to at least get verbal approval on the contractual changes required. We made the decision late in the game and we underestimated the pushback and contract changes timeline. In my 17 years of software development I've gone through shipping numerous times. As you close in on ship, the fix rate takes off on a nearly exponential rate. We were optimistic (perhaps overly so) that this would occur in our original timeline. This did not happen as planned and there were still too many open and outstanding issues to ship the game and feel we had done the right thing.
-Trent
I think even just a little more depth explaining"fix rate takes off on a nearly exponential rate" and the process of needing to get approval from both WotC and Atari would go a long way in satisfying those of us who were really bummed but can maintain a rational perspective on all of this. We want to understand what happened, not rage against Overhaul.
Heck, my system won't even install the 4-in-1 set. BG:EE is my one and only hope. GoG has it tweaked, too, but then I'll be lacking the improvements. If I didn't know about BG:EE, I would have chugged happily along, playing (and losing) Sword of the Stars, the odd RPG and some strategy stuff. I'll keep doing that until this comes out. Then I'll play this and woefully underoptimize my class and never be called a power gamer.
We're going to further fix the major outstanding bugs between now and release. In our overhaul of the codebase we've introduced many new bugs which we've been fixing as we go, but more continue to crop up all the time. Every time you touch code, you add bugs. The contractual changes were required for us to push the date back, not to make any additional changes to the game. The plan from here out is to fix bugs, polish the game to the level of quality expected of a major release and then ship the game on all platforms.
We're going to further fix the major outstanding bugs between now and release. In our overhaul of the codebase we've introduced many new bugs which we've been fixing as we go, but more continue to crop up all the time. Every time you touch code, you add bugs. The contractual changes were required for us to push the date back, not to make any additional changes to the game. The plan from here out is to fix bugs, polish the game to the level of quality expected of a major release and then ship the game on all platforms.
-Trent
Awesome. We can wait for a quality product. Does this mean that all platforms will be available November 30th now or will there still be a staggered release? Any chance that "little something extra" for the wait will pertain to us iPad users as well? We can't preorder or you would already have my money in wait:). I am really looking forward to this game because I was a huge d&d fan in the 80s and I missed the original release of this game.
I have thought about this and @TrentOster beat me to the punch. What I was going to say was I am sure Overhaul had to answer to much larger entities than you and me. I've been in those shoes and it just ain't fun.
Yes, I am still greatly disappointed. I had plans to play, and for reasons I won't go into it meant a lot to me to be able to do so in the near future. But I guess it gives an old Paladin something to look foreward to.
@TrentOster: No apologies needed. I can wait. I'll happily support you guys in the meantime. I know the finished product will be worth it. Make sure to get some rest too, Mr Oster.
Ditto. Especially the last one point, which applies to all the guys working on this project.
You guys can breathe a sigh of relief once this project is finished.
Thanks, though it's not exactly hell getting a chance to enhance this of all the games out there- just a hell of a lot of work. For some reason devoting nearly every waking moment possible to this for free isn't causing me to wonder at my sanity. lol Perfectly natural. It is BG after all. *crazed grin*
Anyone really wondering about the scope of the bugfixing work we've been doing- devs and Betazoids alike- go check out the Fixed forum- and not just the threads that are easy and juicy to read but the others, the technical ones talking about distributor caps and timing belts that you'd rather not hear about when they say it's going to take some extra time to fix your engine (bad example since I'm not an auto mechanic myself)- all the complex fixes that have drawn on many collective years of modder experience and delvings into the technical issues of the game. Try to imagine a release of BG that takes all that into account, implements it, and then requires extensive testing on a constant basis to make sure every scripted CultWizard has its extra space removed, every spell malfunction resolved, every trap reworked that used to kill your thief on disarm, every container in the game checked for accessibility, every quest combed through and restructured that used to run poorly, every sloppy cutscene redesigned, every loophole and glitch and awkwardness of the original game poured over to make more a interesting and intuitive and polished version for the EE player... And then multiply that work by 3 to account for the new content as well as the challenge of integrating what is like an entirely new game and certainly completely new to BG: the improved GUI and a whole new and improved integration of the latest Infinity Engine with our beloved, antiquated, and buggy ol' game... the difficulties and foibles of which you never see as we hammer away at the engine in the garage at all hours of the day and night... But if you could imagine that, then maybe you'd understand why more time was needed... And why this smallish team of devs might've been overoptimistic on the timeline required to achieve it... And why, of course, the delay was really a conspiracy to give their company a bad name. It was an inside job- yeah, that's it.
That a project like this is happening at all is downright phenomenal. I mean, professional game developers getting ahold of BG and not making some DAO wannabe version but actually trying to revamp the original isometric? And that they want to release it as a fully and thoroughly rennaissanced BG supported on several platforms and already in many different languages at release rather than just a patch-em-up of an obscure game with a few extras? Is Trent nuts? (You don't have to answer that, Trent.)
I have thought about this and @TrentOster beat me to the punch. What I was going to say was I am sure Overhaul had to answer to much larger entities than you and me. I've been in those shoes and it just ain't fun.
Yes, I am still greatly disappointed. I had plans to play, and for reasons I won't go into it meant a lot to me to be able to do so in the near future. But I guess it gives an old Paladin something to look foreward to.
I wish Overhaul success on this project.
I`ve been following your posts and I really liked this last one you made. I like how even hitting strong points you still remain open-minded. Just wanted to point that out.
And of course, looking forward to BG:EE. November cant come fast enough.
I can't wait to play BGEE. I have alot of respect for your team taking on the job of rehauling this classic. But reading about having to continually go back to wizards and atari for approval... dang.
I hope you guys consider doing a kickstart for future projects. Create your own unique IP. Project Eternity seems to be off to a fantastic start at only three day mark.
Not happy about the late release at all. This was my birthday gift, and the release was supposed to be on my birthday. I'm sad because I could have got borderlands 2 instead and be playing it right now. Wish i would have gotten an e-mail about the delay rather than trying to download it and fail then come here to see a last min announcement. Feels like someone dropped the ball.
@Velius: Sorry to hear that. But also, things like these happen. As I said, it's not the end of the world. There's plenty of other things you can ask for gifts for your birthday too, no?
I was kind of expecting this to happen, and I'm totally fine with it. If this mean that it'll be a better product when shipped, then I'm happy to wait a while for it to be finished.
This does suck as I was excited to start my epic adventure! But you know what.. I don't mind, i've got a ton of other games still to finish plus I know these guys will provide us all with something amazing and the game will come out polished and bug free. It is annoying but imagine if people like EA did this, postpone a game for 2months rather than release it with a ton of bugs and have to release hotfix after hotfix. My dissapointment is eliminated by excitement of what will now be an even better release!
but for the love of everything don't delay it further than the 30th!
I was planning to buy this in time for my biz trip to China next week, so I was a bit disappointed at the delayed ship date. But my trip has now been postponed by at least a month, so its all good. :-)
@kitteh, It's not about asking for gifts, this was my gift to myself. I budgeted enough money to get borderlands 2 then seen this was releasing on the same day and memories of my childhood flooded in and I decided with much deliberation that I'd go with this. The fact that they couldn't e-mail us with a heads up is rather disheartening. If I'd have had some heads up maybe I'd have went with a game I could have actually played on the day it was supposed to be released. Instead I'm left wanting till November 30th. I hope they publish a change log of all the work they had to do since the original promised sale date and the New release date. As for the "something extra" for the preorder people, that isn't what I care for; what I wanted was the game as promised on the day promised.
That a project like this is happening at all is downright phenomenal. I mean, professional game developers getting ahold of BG and notu making some DAO wannabe version but actually trying to revamp the original isometric? And that they want to release it as a fully and thoroughly rennaissanced BG supported on several platforms and already in many different languages at release rather than just a patch-em-up of an obscure game with a few extras? Is Trent nuts? (You don't have to answer that, Trent.)
Who cares about that? I want MY game now! All you're doing is fixing some bugs so we suckers can pay for this game a second time! So what it's got bugfixes and the BG2 engine? Don't you guys know there are mods that'll do that for free? I bet this game will become vaporware. NO WAY it's coming out on 11/30. I will only be convinced if Trent Oster takes the time to phone my place and explain the situation. And a little something extra, you say? I want a playable demo and a brand new NPC with a romance and maybe a Jon Irenicus cameo and a pony. You owe us that! You are bad people and you are terrible at business and I bet you don't even like Baldur's Gate. BTW I didn't pre order.
Not happy about the late release at all. This was my birthday gift, and the release was supposed to be on my birthday. I'm sad because I could have got borderlands 2 instead and be playing it right now. Wish i would have gotten an e-mail about the delay rather than trying to download it and fail then come here to see a last min announcement. Feels like someone dropped the ball.
Is Borderlands2 not for sale? I'm a bit confused on how this kept you from playing it.
Well whatever. At least this will be a good exercise in patience for the crybabies who are creating a drama out of this delay. Just know that real quality is rare nowadays. -_-
This isn't stopping me from promoting the game to more people, I want the classic games like this to be revisited and game developers to go back and make more remakes, and sequels to amazing games like these instead of some of the horrible stuff I have touched since then.
I don't know if I'm happy that I got to play in what I consider the golden age of gaming or sad that I now have such high standards that I can't enjoy almost anything that comes out these days. When you would rather play an old game over and over and over than play most new games even once all the way through you know something is wrong.
I am in the category of waiting patiently. The delay doesn't bother me 1 bit, but I also don't think anyone who is dissapointed is just a griefer. I just wish game companies would stop trying to push technology, graphics, and whatever and just focus on what company can form the best team and create the best game with what is already available. The story department for rpg's or gameplay department for action games should be put far away and ahead of any graphics department. If anything has been proven in the realm of gaming it's that the best games don't need the best graphics. Gameplay is what truly matters in the end, and in an RPG it's all about how immersive the story can be followed very closely by intrigueing gameplay. Graphics pretty much comes last on the list. I hope their comes a time when games are touted for their amazing story and gameplay and not so much for their amazing new graphics which pushes technology and requires you to buy new video cards, ram, processors, and whatever else.
Let the age of remakes and sequels begin, let the innovation be focused on the depth of story/gameplay, and damn the technology race.
I don't know if I'm happy that I got to play in what I consider the golden age of gaming or sad that I now have such high standards that I can't enjoy almost anything that comes out these days.
That happens to me too! I enjoy more the old games and the only new games that I enjoy are indie, remakes or revisiting the old gameplay of the series, like Rayman Origins (the original is very difficult but I love it) or the old RPGs coming back anew like BGEE (although I obviously haven't played it xD).
Comments
@TrentOster
"I do apologize for the lateness of the push back as we needed to get both Wizards and Atari approval and had to at least get verbal approval on the contractual changes required."
You get approval to change some of the original content!!!??? Well that's an awersome new (if i get it right). I would truly like to know what changes are possible now, if what i presume really happend, this delay, from my point of view, start to become more acceptable. Yet something must be done for the negative publicity derived from the delay.
We want to understand what happened, not rage against Overhaul.
But I'll have fun.
The contractual changes were required for us to push the date back, not to make any additional changes to the game.
The plan from here out is to fix bugs, polish the game to the level of quality expected of a major release and then ship the game on all platforms.
-Trent
Yes, I am still greatly disappointed. I had plans to play, and for reasons I won't go into it meant a lot to me to be able to do so in the near future. But I guess it gives an old Paladin something to look foreward to.
I wish Overhaul success on this project.
Anyone really wondering about the scope of the bugfixing work we've been doing- devs and Betazoids alike- go check out the Fixed forum- and not just the threads that are easy and juicy to read but the others, the technical ones talking about distributor caps and timing belts that you'd rather not hear about when they say it's going to take some extra time to fix your engine (bad example since I'm not an auto mechanic myself)- all the complex fixes that have drawn on many collective years of modder experience and delvings into the technical issues of the game. Try to imagine a release of BG that takes all that into account, implements it, and then requires extensive testing on a constant basis to make sure every scripted CultWizard has its extra space removed, every spell malfunction resolved, every trap reworked that used to kill your thief on disarm, every container in the game checked for accessibility, every quest combed through and restructured that used to run poorly, every sloppy cutscene redesigned, every loophole and glitch and awkwardness of the original game poured over to make more a interesting and intuitive and polished version for the EE player... And then multiply that work by 3 to account for the new content as well as the challenge of integrating what is like an entirely new game and certainly completely new to BG: the improved GUI and a whole new and improved integration of the latest Infinity Engine with our beloved, antiquated, and buggy ol' game... the difficulties and foibles of which you never see as we hammer away at the engine in the garage at all hours of the day and night... But if you could imagine that, then maybe you'd understand why more time was needed... And why this smallish team of devs might've been overoptimistic on the timeline required to achieve it... And why, of course, the delay was really a conspiracy to give their company a bad name. It was an inside job- yeah, that's it.
That a project like this is happening at all is downright phenomenal. I mean, professional game developers getting ahold of BG and not making some DAO wannabe version but actually trying to revamp the original isometric? And that they want to release it as a fully and thoroughly rennaissanced BG supported on several platforms and already in many different languages at release rather than just a patch-em-up of an obscure game with a few extras? Is Trent nuts? (You don't have to answer that, Trent.)
Or they can chart their New Bugs Made Vs. Bugs Fixed on a bar graph that they can add to as the months go by.
Developers 0, Infinity Engine 1!
And of course, looking forward to BG:EE. November cant come fast enough.
I hope you guys consider doing a kickstart for future projects. Create your own unique IP. Project Eternity seems to be off to a fantastic start at only three day mark.
...
Oh noes, therz no DL link on mah inbox! Wut gives? Imposibal hax!
but for the love of everything don't delay it further than the 30th!
It's not about asking for gifts, this was my gift to myself.
I budgeted enough money to get borderlands 2 then seen this was releasing on the same day and memories of my childhood flooded in and I decided with much deliberation that I'd go with this. The fact that they couldn't e-mail us with a heads up is rather disheartening. If I'd have had some heads up maybe I'd have went with a game I could have actually played on the day it was supposed to be released. Instead I'm left wanting till November 30th. I hope they publish a change log of all the work they had to do since the original promised sale date and the New release date. As for the "something extra" for the preorder people, that isn't what I care for; what I wanted was the game as promised on the day promised.
(sarcasm mode off)
My generation sucks. That's all I can say.
Well, that sounds reasonable. ;-) Will you be wanting a striped pony or a spotted one?
e-mails were sent to people who pre-purchased the game.
Just kidding
I don't know if I'm happy that I got to play in what I consider the golden age of gaming or sad that I now have such high standards that I can't enjoy almost anything that comes out these days. When you would rather play an old game over and over and over than play most new games even once all the way through you know something is wrong.
I am in the category of waiting patiently. The delay doesn't bother me 1 bit, but I also don't think anyone who is dissapointed is just a griefer. I just wish game companies would stop trying to push technology, graphics, and whatever and just focus on what company can form the best team and create the best game with what is already available. The story department for rpg's or gameplay department for action games should be put far away and ahead of any graphics department. If anything has been proven in the realm of gaming it's that the best games don't need the best graphics. Gameplay is what truly matters in the end, and in an RPG it's all about how immersive the story can be followed very closely by intrigueing gameplay. Graphics pretty much comes last on the list. I hope their comes a time when games are touted for their amazing story and gameplay and not so much for their amazing new graphics which pushes technology and requires you to buy new video cards, ram, processors, and whatever else.
Let the age of remakes and sequels begin, let the innovation be focused on the depth of story/gameplay, and damn the technology race.