Accumulated Wisdom for BG2 Solo No Reload Games
Jaheiras_Witness
Member Posts: 614
It seems to me from reading the threads on these forums that solo no-reload play (aka hardcore) is an increasingly popular occupation for many players. There are many threads where people ask for advice on some aspect or another, as well as many stories (including the no-reload thread) chronicling people’s attempts to succeed.
I thought it might be worthwhile to start a thread for people to chip in with their tips, tricks and strategies for this style of play, so we can accumulate our collective wisdom in one place and help each other as well as people who are thinking of trying this for the first time.
I’ll kick off with a few (primarily focused on SCS games).
1) Defence >>>> Offence. Throughout the game you face hundreds, if not thousands, of opponents that you have to kill. And they are all trying to kill you. The one constant in that? You. You have to stay alive throughout all those fights, so the most important thing you have to focus on is your defence, i.e. making sure your character does not die. Therefore making sure your defence is up to scratch is way more important than maximising how much damage you do.
Consider this: let’s say you cast a Finger of Death at an opponent (let’s say it is a yuan-ti mage). How important is it that the Finger of Death succeeds? I would say “Not very.” Sure, it would be nice if it did and you could move on to the next fight, but even if it doesn’t, the yuan-ti mage represents one out of hundreds of enemies you have to kill, and you probably have numerous other ways of killing him even if this spell does not succeed.
Now let’s switch it around and say the yuan-ti mage casts the Finger of Death at you. Now how important is it whether the spell succeeds? Pretty flipping crucial.
2) Saving throws are vital. No matter how much you prep, it is a cast iron certainty that you will have to make crucial saving throws along the way. So if and when you do, make sure you have done everything you can to boost your saves as much as possible.
The most important save is vs spells (most common), followed by vs death (also common). The other saving throws are tested only occasionally.
There are broadly speaking 3 types of saving throws:
i) Save or die (unsurprisingly you have to make these)
ii) Save or nasty effect (operate on the assumption that you almost certainly have to make these as well)
iii) Save or suffer extra damage (while it is still better to make these rather than fail them, and over the course of the game they add up to a lot of saved damage, in isolation these are not that important and you can get away with failing some of these)
3) Certain races and classes are more suited to solo no reload play than others. I won’t go through them all but here are a few pointers.
Races
i) Human: Unless you a) plan to dual class or b) want to play a class that is human only, you should never choose human (zero advantages).
ii) Dwarf and Elf: these are the top races. Dwarves have superb saving throw bonuses and are your go-to choice for any fighter, thief or cleric type builds that don’t involve dual classing. Elves have 90% resistance to charm and are the top dog for mage builds or for triple multiclasses.
iii) Half Orc and Half Elf: bad choices as Dwarf and Elf respectively are superior in the vast majority of cases.
iv) Gnome: only if you want a Fighter/Illusionist or Thief/Illusionist. Save bonuses vs wand and spell but not vs death.
v) Halfling: Dwarf is nearly always superior since -1 STR is very hard to stomach.
Classes
i) Kensai are usually a bad choice. You might have grand visions of a Kensai (13)/ Mage but the reality of achieving that is something else because of the sheer lack of survivability of a low to mid level Kensai (no armour, no helmets is asking for serious trouble in the early game). Try taking your level 8 Kensai with AC 4 through the duergar in Irenicus’ Dungeon and you’ll quickly get a feel for what you’re up against when those lowly level 5 fighters cut you into ribbons.
ii) Berserkers are conversely very good (the rage is the best single defensive resource in the game).
iii) Pure warriors (with no thief or spellcasting capability) will have a very hard time in the mid to end game.
iv) Spellcasters will ultimately have more power at their disposal (particularly arcane casters) but survivability can be an issue – if something goes wrong and your defences fail, low HPs do not provide much of a buffer to rectify things before it is too late.
v) Some form of fighter/mage is probably the best overall combination to maximise survival chances.
4) The following spells are notorious solo-killers. Make sure you are protected against these whenever facing an opponent capable of casting them.
i) Charm Person / Dire Charm / Domination: these are all save-or-die spells for solo play and SCS mages love casting these at you (sometimes in sequencers!) if you’re not protected against them.
ii) Power Word Stun: this is a death sentence and there is no saving throw. Keep your HPs above 90 or have free action in place.
iii) Maze: another death sentence and this one is pretty hard to defend against. There is no saving throw, the only defences are magic resistance, SI Conjuration (? Can’t remember if this is a Conjuration or Enchantment spell), Spell Deflection/Spell Turning/Spell Trap (note the minor versions won’t help you), Chaotic Commands or Enrage.
That’s enough for now, I will add more later
.
I thought it might be worthwhile to start a thread for people to chip in with their tips, tricks and strategies for this style of play, so we can accumulate our collective wisdom in one place and help each other as well as people who are thinking of trying this for the first time.
I’ll kick off with a few (primarily focused on SCS games).
1) Defence >>>> Offence. Throughout the game you face hundreds, if not thousands, of opponents that you have to kill. And they are all trying to kill you. The one constant in that? You. You have to stay alive throughout all those fights, so the most important thing you have to focus on is your defence, i.e. making sure your character does not die. Therefore making sure your defence is up to scratch is way more important than maximising how much damage you do.
Consider this: let’s say you cast a Finger of Death at an opponent (let’s say it is a yuan-ti mage). How important is it that the Finger of Death succeeds? I would say “Not very.” Sure, it would be nice if it did and you could move on to the next fight, but even if it doesn’t, the yuan-ti mage represents one out of hundreds of enemies you have to kill, and you probably have numerous other ways of killing him even if this spell does not succeed.
Now let’s switch it around and say the yuan-ti mage casts the Finger of Death at you. Now how important is it whether the spell succeeds? Pretty flipping crucial.
2) Saving throws are vital. No matter how much you prep, it is a cast iron certainty that you will have to make crucial saving throws along the way. So if and when you do, make sure you have done everything you can to boost your saves as much as possible.
The most important save is vs spells (most common), followed by vs death (also common). The other saving throws are tested only occasionally.
There are broadly speaking 3 types of saving throws:
i) Save or die (unsurprisingly you have to make these)
ii) Save or nasty effect (operate on the assumption that you almost certainly have to make these as well)
iii) Save or suffer extra damage (while it is still better to make these rather than fail them, and over the course of the game they add up to a lot of saved damage, in isolation these are not that important and you can get away with failing some of these)
3) Certain races and classes are more suited to solo no reload play than others. I won’t go through them all but here are a few pointers.
Races
i) Human: Unless you a) plan to dual class or b) want to play a class that is human only, you should never choose human (zero advantages).
ii) Dwarf and Elf: these are the top races. Dwarves have superb saving throw bonuses and are your go-to choice for any fighter, thief or cleric type builds that don’t involve dual classing. Elves have 90% resistance to charm and are the top dog for mage builds or for triple multiclasses.
iii) Half Orc and Half Elf: bad choices as Dwarf and Elf respectively are superior in the vast majority of cases.
iv) Gnome: only if you want a Fighter/Illusionist or Thief/Illusionist. Save bonuses vs wand and spell but not vs death.
v) Halfling: Dwarf is nearly always superior since -1 STR is very hard to stomach.
Classes
i) Kensai are usually a bad choice. You might have grand visions of a Kensai (13)/ Mage but the reality of achieving that is something else because of the sheer lack of survivability of a low to mid level Kensai (no armour, no helmets is asking for serious trouble in the early game). Try taking your level 8 Kensai with AC 4 through the duergar in Irenicus’ Dungeon and you’ll quickly get a feel for what you’re up against when those lowly level 5 fighters cut you into ribbons.
ii) Berserkers are conversely very good (the rage is the best single defensive resource in the game).
iii) Pure warriors (with no thief or spellcasting capability) will have a very hard time in the mid to end game.
iv) Spellcasters will ultimately have more power at their disposal (particularly arcane casters) but survivability can be an issue – if something goes wrong and your defences fail, low HPs do not provide much of a buffer to rectify things before it is too late.
v) Some form of fighter/mage is probably the best overall combination to maximise survival chances.
4) The following spells are notorious solo-killers. Make sure you are protected against these whenever facing an opponent capable of casting them.
i) Charm Person / Dire Charm / Domination: these are all save-or-die spells for solo play and SCS mages love casting these at you (sometimes in sequencers!) if you’re not protected against them.
ii) Power Word Stun: this is a death sentence and there is no saving throw. Keep your HPs above 90 or have free action in place.
iii) Maze: another death sentence and this one is pretty hard to defend against. There is no saving throw, the only defences are magic resistance, SI Conjuration (? Can’t remember if this is a Conjuration or Enchantment spell), Spell Deflection/Spell Turning/Spell Trap (note the minor versions won’t help you), Chaotic Commands or Enrage.
That’s enough for now, I will add more later
. 12
Comments
That's a good metaphor for fights under no-reload conditions. The most important fight is not against Firkraag, or Kangaxx, or Bodhi, or Irenicus or whoever. The most important fight is the one you are in right now, whether that's against a group of orcs, yuan-ti, vampires, or whatever. Because if you do not survive this current fight, you won't be facing anybody else.
Therefore use your consumables as much as you need and do not think you need to store them for some big fight down the line. For starters, there are more than enough consumables to get you through the game. Secondly, when you fight you often gain more through your dead opponents' loot. And thirdly, if something goes wrong in this fight, all those amazing scrolls and potions you are hoarding will just be loot for your victorious opponent!
6) Invisibility: is your best friend and sometimes the best escape route if things go pear-shaped. Sometimes you need to wait out certain spells, or get a few rounds of respite to heal, or just to stop a fight that is going badly and where you need to reconsider your strategy. In these circumstances, while there might be "gamey" options such as retreating to a different area or running up and down stairs, the fairest way that still gives you respite is to drink an Invisibility potion. I highly recommend you buy every Invisibility potion you can get your hands on and use them whenever you are in a tight spot.
7) Two Handed Swords rule the early game: ok, so you've done the maths and you've worked out that your ideal combination is to dual wield Crom Faeyr with Belm, so you put 5* in hammers and 2* in two weapon style. Great. Except it will be Chapter 6 before you can make that happen, there are no good hammers that you can get your hands on early doors, and to be perfectly honest, by Chapter 6 you will be level 32 and Crom will barely make a difference to how quickly you can beat up your opponents until ToB.
Two handed swords on the other hand are superb in the early game. You get the Sword of Chaos in Irenicus' Dungeon, Lilarcor right at the start of chapter 2 (a +3 sword that makes you immune to Charm and Confusion right at the start of Chapter 2? This is one of the most underrated weapons in the game! It's worth 900gp to sell. All I can say is that if it was worth 90,000gp, I still wouldn't sell it) and there are other great two handed swords available later (Silver Sword, Unholy Reaver, not to mention Carsomyr if you have a way of using it).
This is not to say that your main weapon focus should not be on Celestial Fury, Flail of Ages or Crom Faeyr down the road; but 2* in two handed swords and 1* in two handed weapon style will sure make the early game a lot easier.
Make sure you know every single trap in the game.
Flexibility is more important than raw strength. You need to be able to bounce back when things go wrong. It's better to barely survive 100 encounters than to completely trounce 99, but die on the 100th. Hold onto items with unique abilities, and memorize spells that can accomplish things other spells can't. The closest calls in a no-reload run are the ones in which your normal tactics fail. Don't be caught without multiple contingency plans.
Prepare escape options in advance. Potions of Invisibility and Potions of Magic Shielding are marvelous multi-purpose rescue items that can bail you out of bad situations. Potions of Invulnerability, Clarity, Freedom, and Magic Protection can also be drunk in an instant, and protect you from an incoming spell. On multiple occasions, I have survived only because I drank a potion right before getting hit with a potentially fatal spell. And on multiple occasions, I have died because I wanted to save that potion for a bigger fight.
Don't get boxed in. SCS enemies are very good at cornering you. Teleport Field will scatter enemies, clearing the way for your escape. If you have Spell Revisions or a similar mod installed, you can also use Dimension Door to escape.
Micromanage. You can squeeze a lot more out of your character if you pause very frequently and issue multiple commands per round. There are tons of tiny optimizations you can do to improve your chances.
Pay close attention to your aura. When you start casting a spell, drink a potion, or use an item, your aura gets clouded up, and you can't do any of those things again for 6 seconds. Make sure that your character's aura is clear whenever it needs to be. Having to wait a single second to drink a potion or cast a spell can be fatal.
Beware of Power Word: Stun.
Mencar & Gang (Den of 7 Vales)
Key Dangers
> Mencar hits hard, easily and often.
> Brennan Risling can do some nasty backstabs (x4 & STR 19!)
> Amon and Pooky can debuff and use many disabling spells.
Recommendations
> You get first strike in this fight as long as you tell Mencar you are leaving after the initial conversation.
> You can therefore prebuff, summon and lay traps if you want. My recommendation, to avoid cheesing, is that you prebuff and summon in the antechamber (i.e. not in view of the gang) and that you can lay traps in the antechamber but not in the main room.
> I highly recommend taking out Amon as your first strike using a Potion of Firebreath (you get 1 in Irenicus' Dungeon and you can buy 2 more cheaply from Ribald). You can try backstab if you want but his buffs (like Stoneskin) might trigger before the backstab lands. In which case he will likely Remove Magic your butt.
> If you're quick, you might be able to catch Pooky in the Firebreath too (you have to get behind him while he's still blue-circled).
> Use summons to distract the fighters and thief while you deal with the spellcasters.
> If you don't manage to kill Amon and Pooky early, be ready for Remove Magic followed by all kinds of disablers (Emotion, Confusion, Hold Person, Charm etc).
> Surprisingly for a dwarf, Mencar's save vs spell is rather weak but pay attention to whatever potions he prebuffs with. If he drinks Magic Shielding you ain't gonna be able to disable him, but if he drinks Freedom, you can take him out of the fight with either Charm or Blindness.
> Brennan Risling will try to flee if he becomes badly injured. Since he has a Ring of Invisibility at least (and possibly more randomised treasure if you play with Item Randomiser) it's a good idea to prevent his escape by blocking the entrance or laying some traps near the stairs. If he gets to the stairs (and he usually drinks Oil of Speed so he gets there fast) he'll be gone forever.
> Recommended kill order (but will vary depending on how the fight develops) is 1) Amon 2) Pooky 3) Smaulev 4) Brennan Risling 5) Mencar.
Slaver Ship: Fighter Group
Key Dangers
> The priest is dangerous if left to go to work. As well as buffing and healing the entire group, he can unleash Hold Person, Poison, Greater Command etc.
> Lots of fighters, some of whom will prebuff with giant strength potions, and can therefore rack up the physical damage.
Recommendations
> Taking the priest out first is imperative. He is prime candidate for an opening backstab. Even if you can't backstab, focus on him first and take him out with physical attacks or high damage spells, he has no defences vs damage and not too many HPs.
> Physical defences (Stoneskin, Mirror Image or even better Protection from Normal Weapons) make the fighters trivial.
> Use Invisibility to repair if you take a lot of damage / physical defences are removed. If you try to heal without invisibility, you may find you take more damage per round than you can heal.
Slaver Ship: Mage Group
Key Dangers
> 2 mages that use a mixture of disabling and damage spells.
Recommendations
> This is not a particularly difficult fight if you can get your save vs spell safe (i.e. negative).
> If not, send some summons in first to trigger the prebuffs and absorb some of the early spells.
> You can expect spells like Remove Magic, low level disablers (Horror, Charm, Hold Person, Confusion, Ray of Enfeeblement) and damage spells like Skull Trap, Melf's Acid Arrow and Magic Missile.
> Ignore the fighters and take out the mages first. They are not high level so even a simple Remove Magic can strip away most of their defences.
Crypt King
Key Dangers
> None really, assuming you can survive a single Horror and some physical attacks.
> He is immune to missile damage and possibly magic (?) - at least I think he is, not 100% sure about this, been a long time since I played a full spellcaster since I usually just take him out with physical damage.
Recommendations
> Main reason he is here is that you can take him out very early in the game to get either Namarra (vanilla) or a Tier 4 treasure with Item Randomiser. I highly recommend doing this fight right at the start of Chapter 2 if you are playing with Item Randomiser since there are some really good Tier 4 treasures you can get that make the early game much easier (e.g. in various run throughs I have got Sentinel +4(!), Book of Infinite Spells, and Staff of Earth from him).
> He starts with a Horror - make sure you can defend against it as you don't want to be running around in fear in such a small space where he can easily strike you.
> After that it's just physical attacks which you can tank either with AC and HPs or with spell defences like Stoneskin and Mirror Image.
> Not sure how many HPs he has but it's around 100 which you can whittle away in a few blows. He has no weapon defences (not even to normal weapons) so you can melee, backstab or whatever (but not missiles).
Rakshasa (Temple Sewers)
Key Dangers
> Lots of cloud and damaging spells.
> Immune to level 1-8 spells so debuffing is difficult.
> Kobold casters can be annoying if not dispatched.
Recommendations
> Take out the kobolds first with a Fireball or two (or similar fodder killing tactics).
> Minor Globe of Invulnerability will protect you from most of the Rakshasa's repertoire (Stinking Cloud, Web, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Melf's Acid Arrow, Magic Missile), but won't protect against Cloudkill.
> Debuffing the Rakshasa is difficult because while Breach works, you have to get through spell defences (e.g. Minor Spell Turning) first and you won't yet be able to do that (unless you are way overleveled and have level 9 spells!).
> You can still get rid of the Rakshasa's illusions with Oracle / True Sight.
> The Rakshasa does not hit particularly hard (<10 damage per hit) but does hit regularly and often (particularly while hasted).
> Best bet is to grind through attrition (you can heal while he cannot). The only danger in this fight is if you get disabled by Stinking Cloud / Web; as long as you can defend against those this fight is slow but straightforward.
Tarnor & Crew (Temple Sewers)
Key Dangers
> Powerful, high-level party with a mix of melee and ranged damage, cleric spells and mage spells.
> Any significant mistake = death in this fight.
Recommendations
> Pre-buff to the max and put spell defences in place. SI Abjuration is more-or-less mandatory if you are relying on temporary buffs from potions and spells, you probably also want Spell Shield in place.
> Use summons to distract attention in the early fight until you have taken out some of the opponents, but don't go overboard as a Death Spell will likely be forthcoming.
> The only weak link in this group that you can ignore at the start is Gallchobair. The fighters (Tarnor and Draug Fea) are dangerous as they hit regularly and hard (Tarnor is a danger even from ranged because of his magical throwing axe). The clerics can be dangerous if not taken out early (can cast up to level 6 spells) and Gaius is the most dangerous of all (can cast up to level 8 spells).
> Gaius will be untouchable at the start because of his pre-buffs and his first spell will be PfMW. So next best thing is to take out the clerics first.
> You may want to throw out some early crowd control spells (e.g. Emotion or Chaos, possibly preceded by Greater Malison) but bear in mind that the clerics will cast counters to those if not dispatched quickly.
> Once the clerics are dispatched you should decide based on what is happening in the fight / the state of your defences whether to go after Gaius next or the fighters (e.g. if you have strong weapon defences but weak spell defences you should go after Gaius, or vice versa).
> You can take out Gaius in a number of ways. Once PfMW wears off, a couple of Arrows of Dispelling will remove all his protections as well as Contingency: Stoneskin leaving him wide open to be dispatched. Otherwise you can remove his spell defences to hit him with magic damage, or take him out with mid-level area-damage spells (Sunfire, Cloudkill etc, lower-level area-damage spells will be blocked by his globe).
> The fighters can be dealt with however you wish, whether that is disabling spells, magical damage or physical damage.
> If at any point during this fight your defences are breached or you start taking heavy damage, use a Potion of Invisibility to get out of there and regroup. Do not try to fix your defences while in combat, that is inviting disaster as spells can be dirsupted or you can be hit by something you are not protected against (e.g. PW Stun). Instead, run away while invisible, heal, repair your defences, re-summon and then re-engage.
> You can also divide and conquer quite easily in this fight if you so wish. Clear out the rest of the sewers first; then let your summons engage some of the opponents while you lure the rest away to a different part of the sewers. Finish off those you lure away and then go after the rest.
Key Dangers
> 3 Yuan-ti mages who can each cast up to level 7 spells.
> Supported by 2 Yuan-ti fighters and 1 Greater Yuan-ti (these guys are trivial but clog up the area).
> I believe mage specialisation can vary based on random factors in SCS installs. Well in mine the Yuan-ti mages must be Necromancers as they summon an army of skeletons to help them.
> Very tight space means there is hardly any room to manouver and you may have to clear out the army of summons just to reach the real dangers (the mages).
> Almost no chance of avoiding being debuffed since there are 3 mages casting spells at you.
> Sequencers are nasty. 3 mages with identical code launching sequencers at you almost simultaneously are lethal.
> Love casting direct damage spells (e.g. Flame Arrow sequencers) followed by PW Stun before you can heal.
> Also love PW Silence.
Recommendations
> Multiple Invisibility potions as well as multiple Improved Invisibility spells and scrolls are highly recommended.
> Minor Globe of Invulnerability will protect you from most sequencer combinations.
> If you are targetable (i.e. not Improved Invisible) make sure you have Free Action in place (e.g. Potion of Freedom). Otherwise, as soon as your HPs fall below 90, you will be hit by PW Stun before you can blink.
> Get your save vs spell safely negative or make sure you are protected against disabling effects like Confusion.
> If you get hit by PW Silence you can still use potions and scrolls.
> You can delay getting debuffed with SI Abjuration and Spell Shield but with 3 mages who can cast Secret Word at you, your defences will crumble and you will then be open to Remove Magic.
> If (when) that happens swig Invisibility to rebuff. If they cast Oracle, let the spell finish and then go invisible again. Mercifully SCS Yuan-ti mages are not as high on True Sight as vanilla Yuan-ti mages.
> Don't bother trying to debuff 3 mages. Instead, let their initial PfMW expire and hit them with Arrows of Dispelling. You need 3 Arrows of Dispelling per mage (pre-buff defences, Contingency Stoneskin, then will recast Stoneskin).
> You can also take them out with mid-level area damage spells but they have some MR which can annoyingly block some damage.
> Sunfire works wonders if you have that spell (bypasses MR in original BG2), 2 of those will finish off the mages easily as well as their summons.
> Ignore the summons as much as possible and go after the mages. Fight the summons only if they block your path to the mages, and use AoE damage to clear them out quickly (fire spells are best against skeletons).
There are plenty of people who can offer you advice on here and lots of threads where you can pick up tricks and tips that will enhance your play
Splendid thread, I know most of these from bioware noreload forums and my own experiences, but superb tactical anectodes nevertheless.
Key Dangers
> High level mage who can cast up to level 8 spells.
Recommendations
> This is an assassination mission so you might as well be sneaky. Unlike vanilla, SCS Rayic is not auto-buffed with Stoneskin so there is a window to try backstabbing if you want (though his buffs might trigger before you manage to strike).
> You get first strike since he starts neutral and will only go hostile if you attack him, say you're going to attack him, or linger in the room.
> Potion of Firebreath works well and has a reasonable chance of killing him outright in 2 rounds (his saves are pretty good though so it is not certain he will die if he succeeds in his saving throws in both rounds that the Firebreath is active).
> You can also use Firebreath and then launch a mid to high level AoE damaging spell in the second round to make sure you kill him (pay attention to his buffs though - he might have a Protection from x spell which defends against the spell you want to cast).
> Usual anti-mage defences and tactics will apply, this is not a massively difficult fight since it is against a single opponent.
> If you want to be cheap / cheesy you can avoid his spells by running down the stairs whenever he starts to cast (personally I frown on this).
> He often casts Sphere of Chaos; unless your save vs spell is totally safe, don't linger in this as some of the effects are fatal.
> There is a scroll of Mislead and a Wand of Fire in this room - grab them and use them if you need help.
Mae'Var
Key Dangers
> 5 opponents who can (and will attempt to) backstab you.
> Initial buffs from both Mae'Var and the priest make the assassins dangerous to begin with (hasted, blessed, immunities etc).
Recommendations
> Weapon defences (Stoneskin, Mirror Image etc) mitigate the majority of the danger in this fight.
> Mae'Var is a mid-level mage/thief and he will try to debuff you before attempting disabling spells.
> He will also cast numerous invisibility type spells along with combat enhancements to try to backstab you.
> Be careful throwing AoE damage spells around - there is an innocent prisoner in this room and you can lose a lot of reputation by accidentally killing him.
> The start of this fight is the hardest because of the buffs that the assassins get (especially Haste). So by all means swig Invisibility and wait a turn or so before starting the real fight to let some of their buffs expire (you can tell when Haste expires because of the distinctive whooshing sound).
> If you move around and lose line of sight on any of the assassins or Mae'Var, they will automatically hide in shadows and you will not be able to see them until they attack again.
Fallen Paladins
> Straight up melee but hit hard and very easily.
Recommendations
> Weapon defences make this fight trivial.
> For some reason the Fallen Paladins will not prebuff with the potions they begin with (SCS Potions component bug?).
> Hit and run and backstab/hide tactics work very well as the Paladins are pure melee fighters.
> Meleeing without weapon defences is risky - they all have excellent THAC0 and do plenty of damage. If you must do it this way (e.g. if you're playing a fighter yourself) then I recommend the Oil of Speed and Potion of Regeneration combo (gives you double regeneration).
Valeria & Gang
Key Dangers
> Small but dangerous group of opponents with melee and missile damage backed by cleric and mage spells.
> Can become a very difficult fight if you do not take out the mage and cleric early.
Recommendations
> If you enter this room invisible the spellcaster pre-buffs will not fire and you get first strike.
> The mage often starts casting an Oracle spell if this is the case which can work to your advantage (you can cause the spell to fail by striking him before his pre-buffs have fired and his aura is clouded so he cannot cast another spell immediately).
> Highly recommend taking out the mage first, using the usual backstab or Firebreath style tactics.
> If your initial attack does not kill the mage, go all-out to finish him off with AoE damage (even if you have to suck some up yourself). If you let him get away with all his pre-buffs active along with PfMW and he then drinks a healing potion, you're in for a tough fight.
> Cleric is next priority after the mage. After that you can kill the melee fighter and Valeria much more comfortably.
Captain Dennis & Company
Key Dangers
> Very dangerous group in melee and missile combat (the fighters all have full plate, melee weapon and crossbow and know how to use them).
> Magic users are rather weak but still need to be taken out quickly.
Recommendations
> Quite a few tips from other group fights already outlined apply. Weapon defences mitigate a lot of the threat, the mage and cleric and first targets respectively.
> Similar to the Mencar fight, you get first strike if you say you'll leave and can therefore pre-buff, summon and trap to your heart's content.
> You will take a lot of damage very quickly if your weapon defences fail, so swig Invisibility and repair if that transpires.
Rune Assassins
Key Dangers
> Rune Assassins are very dangerous with their potion pre-buffs - their backstabs do a lot of damage and they can see through invisibility so you cannot hide from them!
> Ghasts can paralyse you if they hit and you fail save vs death.
> Bone Golem adds to the menace but is not particularly dangerous for an 18k XP opponent (that's more than double Stone Golem value and unlike other golems, the Bone Golem has no "special" attack like Golem Slow or Poisonous Breath).
Recommendations
> Weapon defences are highly desirable.
> Rune Assassins need to be killed as quickly as possible to give you the option of an Invisibility time-out if required.
> Make sure your save vs death is 1 or below or you have Free Action. Getting paralysed by a lowly Ghast is an embarrassing way to lose.
> Recommended kill order: Ghast x 2 (only 30 HPs each and clears space); Rune Assassin x 2; save Bone Golem for last.
> Offensive spells are not that useful in this fight as the Rune Assassins usually drink Magic Shielding and the Bone Golem is immune to magic.
> Mustard Jelly form (Polymorph Self) can work very well as Ghasts and Rune Assassins cannot hurt you (100% immunity to Piercing). Not sure which category the Bone Golem attacks fall into.
Rayic Gethras deserves special mention as he has finished quite a number of no reload attempts. He is surprisingly deadly, if you can not take him out at the start of the combat by surprise (backstab/fire breath/power word stun etc) while he is still neutral. RUN!!! Run unless you are massivly overlevelled for the quest. Serious. Run and live another day. He has quite a body count.
Rayic Gethras is a funny one. I used to have some trouble with him (he has ended at least 2 of my no-reload attempts) and I agree he can be problematic. In the last few runs though I've had little problem with him.
I usually start with Potion of Firebreath, which does damage over 2 rounds (and the damage still happens in the 2nd round even after his buffs pop). On top of that, you can sometimes hit him with a weapon as well before his buffs pop (if you have a low speed factor or are hasted). The Firebreath and 1 hit alone tend to kill him c75% of the time.
If he doesn't die and his buffs pop, you have to pay attention to what exactly he has. For example, if he doesn't have Protection from Fire and is "Near Death", you might be able to finish him with a Potion of Explosions (which I believe works as spell level 0 and is therefore not affected by a GoI). Or if you have a Sunfire scroll or a Cloudkill, dropping that on him might finish him off too as they are not blocked by GoI (but might be blocked by some of his other buffs, which is why you need to check to see what he is protected against).
In my latest runthrough with an Elf F/M (which sadly failed but hey-ho!) I wasn't able to kill Rayic quickly and I still managed to suck up everything he could throw at me until enough of his buffs expired to let me damage him. It cost a lot in resources (scrolls and potions) but it wasn't that difficult. I ensured my save vs spell was negative with Potion of Invulnerability and used Invisibility to rebuff when he cast Remove Magic. I used some minor summons to get him to waste some spells and made use of Improved Invisibility too to avoid any particularly nasty targeted spells. In the end, even after he had used 3 lots of buffs and cast assorted nasties at me such as Sphere of Chaos + Teleport Field, I was able to survive easily (I'm not sure I lost a single HP). So it's definitely doable even at low to mid levels by ensuring your defences are robust and making good use of Improved Invisibility to avoid targeted spells (bearing in mind Improved Invisibility scrolls cost about 600gp each and you can buy maybe 15 of them in Athkatla alone, that's a pretty good deal).
The tactics you've outlined above will work if you're a fighter/mage, but most solo characters are not. For those without stoneskins, summons etc there are still viable options:
- invisible / stealthed travel will allow a spot of buffing for the encounter.
- Bhaal horror is incredibly useful for most solo characters as it can be cast out of sight of opponents (usually allowing you to rest and try again if they save against it). For the ambushes horror is likely to allow you to kill a couple of the opposition without alerting the others (as they will not call for help while scared).
- as suggested above passive defences against disabling spells are a must.
- at some stage you are likely to have to do some fighting and that is probably best done on the run. Even quite high HP fighters can be brought down by a couple of simultaneous backstabs, so don't give the invisible thieves a stationary target to aim at. If you have stealth ability then this can be useful to allow you to disappear while running around obstacles.
After that the encounters are randomised and some can be difficult (particularly the one with the 2 mages among the bandit group). I didn't give specific advice on those because the sequence and which ones you get will vary, but some of the tips for fighting groups of opponents still apply. My personal approach is to focus on defence - my first action when unexpectedly ambushed is often to drink a Potion of Invulnerability. I also use Invisibility potions extensively if injured or if my buffs are dispelled.
You are quite right regarding tactics for other classes. I tend to play combinations and variations of fighters, mages and thieves so I have very little cleric advice (as you may have noticed, I don't believe I've mentioned a single divine spell!). Pure fighter type characters cannot use the spells I have recommended but are also less fragile as they will usually have very good AC and HPs. They need to rely extensively on potions (Speed, Invulnerability, Invisibility and Freedom are all vital resources). Their biggest problem is that they have no way of avoiding being debuffed - often you have to suck up the fact you have lost all your defences and then rebuff again with more potions (under invisibility). Thankfully most SCS opponents will only cast Remove Magic at you once, but groups of mages (e.g. Yuan-ti) can be very annoying if the different mages cast Remove Magic at you at different times. Thieves also rely more on potions (until UAI) but they have way more flexibility and can often one-shot some opponents with backstabs and use traps.
The great thing about solo is the sheer variety of tactics you can employ, and you have alluded to some good ones. I am not a fan of cast / rest cycles so I don't attach much value to Horror, which gives +2 to saves, but you have demonstrated ways that you can use it to divide and conquer
It's probably worth adding another point to my advice about movement above in relation to thieves. Keeping on the move, other than very short pauses to attack, not only prevents enemies ganging up on you, but gives you a decent chance of avoiding a backstab. Starting an attack move cancels invisibility, not the attack itself, and it's therefore possible by moving away at the right time to avoid a backstab entirely. Obviously when faced by an invisible attacker it's hard to judge what the right time is, but if you've already killed all other enemies and are able to keep moving you've got a pretty good chance of avoiding an attack. SCS thieves of course usually have a number of potions of invisibility, so you are likely to have to avoid not just one, but multiple attacks before finally getting a chance to kill them ...
Nice thread by the way!
> Potions of Fire Protection are available in Renal Bloodscalp's chamber and for sale from Gorch at Mae'Vars hall. They provide 100% fire protection, which eliminates 90 percent of the damage by the mephits on the bottom floor, and shields you from a very important trap...
> The container in the centre of Rayic Gethras' room is a fireball trap, repeating. It does not disarm when triggered. Rayic is not protected from AoE or Fire. His own trap will kill him in 3-4 blasts, which can be triggered quickly by constantly rummaging through the container.
Basically a lvl1 character with 2 potions of fire protection and no weapons could kill Rayic in a fraction of a round.
I suppose it depends on your character and equipment and whether you have one-off items you are willing to consume.
For a fighter/mage type character, I guess the theory to defeating that lich is that you need to survive long enough to be able to get through the lich's defences and be able to hurt it. Since you cannot run or hide and there is no room to manouver, you have to have infallible defences and survive everything the lich can throw at you in the meantime.
If we think about how that might play out, the options are:
1) You ignore the lich's spell defences and wait for it to run out of weapon defences. This takes longer and you will have to survive more spells but you can focus entirely on defence.
2) Alternatively you can try to dispel its spell defences and breach its weapon defences. This is quicker than waiting out the weapon defences and means you don't have to face as much of the lich's arsenal. But it means you have to focus on debuffing rather than purely on defence (which may conflict).
If we then factor in what you have to survive, that partly depends on your SCS settings and whether this lich gets HLAs or not. You will likely face:
Time Stop (possibly multiple)
High level summons: Pit Fiends, Genies, Mordy's Sword, possibly Fallen Planetar if HLAs enabled
Lots of debuffing spells: Remove Magic, Spellstrike, Ruby Ray, Secret Word etc. Possibly Wish-Breach.
Damage spells: Abi-Dalzim's, DB Fireball, Dragon's Breath / Comet (if HLAs enabled)
Sequencers / Triggers
Disabling spells (depends on your immunities)
How do you survive all that? If I am correct in assuming you don't have Cloak of Mirroring or Staff of the Magi, you need to consider the following defences:
> Stoneskin (multiple, always active in case of Time Stop mischief)
> Mirror Image (if facing summons)
> PfMW (probably multiple, cast when facing dangerous summons like Planetars)
> Protection from Fire (always needs to be active, duration is very long anyway if not dispelled)
> Infallible saving throws (Potion of Magic Shielding needed probably)
> Depending on your HPs, possibly Protection from Magic Energy (Potion of Magic Shielding and successful saving throws should counter vast proportion of magical damage anyway)
> Improved Invisibility (probably x2)
> MGoI (probably x2)
> SI Abjuration (+ another SI available if this expires)
> SI Divination
> Spell Shield + multiple further Spell Shields available (you probably want at least 2 more)
Note that since you won't have enough spell slots available to cast all these, you will want scrolls for some of these spells (e.g. Improved Invisibility, MGoI and some SIs).
The above defences should let you survive whatever the lich can throw at you for quite some time (20-30 rounds).
If you want to break through the lich's defences as well, you will likely need the following:
> Breach (to get rid of Spell Shield)
> Ruby Ray (for Spell Trap)
> 3 x Pierce Magic or Warding Whip (to get rid of assorted defences like Spell Immunities)
> True Sight (to get rid of illusions once SI Divination is removed)
> Multiple Breaches to remove weapon defences
> Possibly more of the above if the lich throws up further defences
Again, it is very hard to see how you can have all those spells available, especially when combined with the defensive spells you need (especially level 5, you have nowhere near enough spell slots at this level to cover your SI, Spell Shield and Breach requirements). Scrolls are a possibility; alternatively a quick trip to Watcher's Keep to get your hands on a Wand of Spell Striking will cover a lot of your debuffing requirements.
Once you are through the lich's weapon defences (one way or the other), a few hits with a nice weapon while hasted with Oil of Speed will finally finish it off!
PS: I mentioned at the start that one-off items, if you are willing to use them, can make this fight easier. Candidates include scroll of Protection from Magic and Limited Wish one-off wishes (Time Stop and Shapechange can help).
This is why I try to skip this fight till returning from the Underdark with HLAs.
To make things worse, this lich summons a Simmy, who has own spells. If I remember correctly, this lich can cast Time Stop at least thrice.
It's also worth noting that probably facing this lich with a party is harder because it's harder to protect more than 1 party member against all that hell the lich brings. Not only there is no room to manouver, there's no way to retreat from the fight, as the exit is closed till the battle is won.
The simmy is not that big a deal because it won't have so many higher level spells or defences. You might be able to kill it or you can wait it out (only lasts 20 rounds) if you have enough spare Spell Shields.
I don't think the odds are that low - it's either 0% or 100%! If your defences are not up to scratch and the lich or its summons break through, then you will fail. But if you get the defences right you will be untouchable and can then take it out easily once its PfMWs run out.
So it's all about the preparation and ensuring you have the spells and scrolls available that you need.
Everyone without SI: abjuration is imho just a waste of space for lich fights.
My tactic was charname (1 zerker/mage and 2 FMTs) is buffed with impr haste and packing Belm plus a good MH, Aerie and Jan uses every round to debuff, charname buffs his defences or debuffs the lich depending on the situation. Key abilities for me was detect illusion from Jan and wand of spell striking from Neeras quest. Of course everyone is protected from death/fear/magic energy/SI: abj as a bare minimum.
I allow selected casters to get HLAs and he has yet to summon a dark planetar on me. If he would have summoned it I think my runs would have been over since only my zerker/mage could even cast prot from magic weapons at the time.
Maybe just luck on my part...
I don't think I could bring him down solo, I need to cast more spells than him per round to stand a chance. And his free prot from magic weapons when his old one expires/is taken down is just heartbreaking enough as it is.
If @Jaheiras_Witness says it's easier to solo with 100% chance of success I will bow to his/her wisdom ofc.
But defending more characters is very difficult. You need everyone (assuming you care about their survival) to be running a ton of buffs. Take the Potion of Magic Shielding for instance: are you going to get all 3 characters to drink one? In that case you've just used maybe 20% of your full game stock on this one fight. The same may apply to scrolls too, which are more plentiful but still limited.
In your example Aerie and Jan are also arcane casters. Normally when talking about a party you will usually have non-arcane NPCs - how will they defend themselves? That's why general advice for this type of fight is that solo is easier
> Stoneskin
> Oil of Speed
> Protection from Fire
> Potion of Magic Shielding
> Spell Shield
> Improved Invisibility
> MGoI
> SI Abjuration
> SI Divination
These are the additional defences you should have available during the fight to replenish your defences and avoid being debuffed:
> Stoneskin x 2
> Mirror Image x 2
> PfMW x 3
> Spell Shield x 2
> Improved Invisibility
> MGoI
> Spell Immunity
> Arrows of Dispelling x 3 (to fully debuff the lich once it runs out of PfMW)
By spell level, these are the number of spells from each level you need (use scrolls to make up any deficit).
Level 1: 0
Level 2: 2
Level 3: 1
Level 4: 7
Level 5: 6
Level 6: 3
So other than the slight stretch at levels 4 and 5, a mid-level fighter/mage should be able to accomplish this.
If you can't use bows then you'll have to work your way through the Stoneskins. Or you can use a weapon with elemental damage or an anti-undead weapon such as MoD or Azuredge.
If you don't have Magic Shielding then go buy one from Roger! Fallen Paladins often have these as well. Or you can use Invulnerability or 2 x Magic Protection potions instead.
If you're not an arcane caster then this is very difficult and your best bet is probably to skip it (Daystar is not that great anyway). Or come back with HLAs / better equipment. A good melee character with great saving throws and Cloak of Mirroring should be able to do it almost without buffs (do liches use Impisonment on PC in current SCS?).
Key Dangers
> Yuan-ti mage is untouchable at the start and can quickly ruin your day.
> You can take a lot of damage very quickly in this fight if not properly prepared.
> Any significant mistake = death.
Recommendations
> Yuan-ti mage gets lots of prebuffs and casts PfMW or Mantle immediately. You therefore have 4 rounds to survive before you can take him out.
> Options are to use the 4 rounds to take out some of the rest of the group, or swig Invisibility to let the PfMW/Mantle expire and target the mage first.
> Defence is crucial in this fight - you need weapon defences to tank the fighter, thief and 2 archers; infallible saving throws to protect you from whatever the mage and cleric cast at you; SI Abjuration to protect your buffs from Remove Magic; and Improved Invisibility or Minor Globe to protect you from sequencers.
> If you go after the rest of the group first, the first target is the cleric (who usually starts by casting Flamestrike).
> The mage (once his PfMW/Mantle wears off) is best attacked with Arrows of Dispelling followed by all out offence.
> Once stripped of magical support, the rest of the bounty hunters are fairly easy.
> A lot of the Thralls in the Planar Prison walk around due to SCS behaviour (this is very bad for this area IMO, because some of them end up being petrified by the trap to the west of the Warden - in my last runthrough the Wyvern even ended up there and killed Haer'Dalis!). This means you may end up fighting some of the Thralls in this fight as well as the bounty hunters.
> If for any reason you leave the Yuan-ti mage to last and kill the other bounty hunters first, beware - he becomes more dangerous! Since he has no allies around he is more disposed to launching AoE spells at you. I once got hit by a triple Skull Trap sequencer which almost ended my run (I had literally 1HP left!).
Planar Prison Master of Thralls
Key Dangers
> Remove Magic + Death Gaze every few rounds is not remotely funny.
> Hits hard and fast and Air Elemental companions can also do significant damage.
> Not fooled by Invisibility (need to check, I think that's right) and Death Gaze is a ranged attack, so if you get in trouble you need to run away FAST.
Recommendations
> This is a very tough fight with SCS. SI Abjuration makes it a lot easier (protects against Remove Magic). Without that, and given the likely disparity in levels, his Remove Magic will blow away all your buffs.
> The Remove Magic is immediately followed by Death Gaze every few rounds. The Death Gaze can paralyse you (save vs death or game over) and even if it doesn't, it acts as a ranged Vampiric Touch (you lose HPs, the demon gains HPs).
> Relying on potions (or temporary effects) such as Invulnerability or Freedom to protect you from Death Gaze is not reliable unless you have SI Abjuration in place. If you do not, you really need to make sure your save vs death is safe through items.
> SI Necromancy should (need to check) protect you from Death Gaze.
> Try to take down the demon as fast as possible. Remember he gains HPs every few rounds through Death Gaze (unless blocked) so trying to chip away at him slowly is not advisable. You want to be dealing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.
> Boots of Speed are a lifesaver in this fight in case you need to run away. In a non-randomised game you will definitely have them since they are found earlier in the Planar Prison.
> If you need to run away, get as far away from the demon as possible before you stop to heal. Do not linger in his sight while badly wounded as he can still hit you with Death Gaze.
> Ignore the Air Elementals and focus on the demon first as he is the real danger. The Air Elementals can do some damage and you should ensure your save vs spell is safe to protect you from their whirlwind effect, but they are trivial once you get rid of the demon.
> You need a +2 or better weapon for this fight.
Planar Prison Warden
Key Dangers
> An epic level demonic fighter/mage with Level 9 spells and fighter HLAs. What could possibly go wrong?
> The full gamut of abilities you would expect from a high level fighter/mage. Chain contingencies, sequencers, triggers, Time Stop, Black Blade of Disaster, Whirlwind, Critical Strike, Simulacrum, Mislead, Improved Haste, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Maze, multiple PfMW / Mantle, multiple Remove Magic etc.
> Accompanied by a Yuan-ti group (3 mages, 2 fighters, 1 Greater).
Recommendations
> Good luck.
> No seriously, unless you 1) are of comparative high level, 2) cheese it with summons (see more below) or 3) run around long enough to get the Warden to waste all his best abilities, you haven't got a prayer.
> To be perfectly honest, I cannot remember the last time I beat the Warden fair and square. I usually have c2m XP at this point and that is not a high enough level to face this guy straight up. The Warden has so many abilities that there is simply no way to defend against everything he can do. His prebuffs are astonishing, his Chain Contingency can include a Simulacrum, Mordy's Sword and Abi-Dalzim's, his magical defences require several rounds to penetrate and that is time you do not have, he is a lethal fighter while buffed and can demolish you in a couple of rounds, he can use ridiculous trigger/sequencer combinations, he has a ton of weapon defences, he can see through invisibility, he is fast moving, and if you get caught in a Time Stop or Whirlwind, you've had it.
> The Yuan-ti group he is surrounded by are a danger in themselves (I have covered fighting Yuan-ti groups already).
> If you were going to fight the Warden straight up, I would imagine you would need to factor in the following defences (and this is assuming you split him up from the Yuan-ti mages): weapon defences including multiple PfMW, Protection from Magic Energy, Protection from Fire, Improved Invisibility, Spell Deflection, SI Abjuration, SI Divination, mutiple Spell Shields, and some way to protect yourself from dying in a Time Stop (e.g. Contingency PfMW if Helpless? Will only work if you do not have a PfMW active when the Contingency activates).
> Debuffing the Warden will likely require True Sight, Spell Thrust, Secret Word/Ruby Ray/Pierce Magic and multiple Breaches.
> If you cannot manage all that (!) you can still defeat the Warden through kiting or summoning. Both approaches require you to get rid of his ensemble first; you can accomplish this by moving into view and then luring the Yuan-ti away - the Warden usually fires spells first rather than attacking immediately, so if you can get the Yuan-ti to attack / target you, you can lure them to a different part of the Prison (might take multiple attempts to get all the Yuan-ti and as I mentioned previously, the mages are difficult opponents in their own right).
> Once the Warden is alone you can grind him down through kiting or use summons. If you choose to kite, your goal is to get the Warden to use as many of his spells as possible (particularly his Time Stop and weapon defence spells) while you keep a safe distance from him. Boots / Oil of Speed (or both) are highly recommended. The way to do this is to move into view, feint to attack (or actually attack) the Warden, let him start casting and then run away as far as possible. In this way you can eventually get him to waste all his PfMW / Mantle spells and possibly some of his best mage spells and HLAs.
> If you try this, you still have to be able to survive the spells the Warden casts at you or get away from him if he chases you. Remember that with SCS code, the Warden will only cast things at you that you are not directly protected against. So while you don't want to leave your defences wide open (particularly to nasty effects), you may want to let him waste some damaging spells at you that you can heal.
> I once got Mazed trying this
> Eventually, once you feel the Warden has wasted his best spells and is starting to cast lesser spells, put up all your remaining buffs and go at him as hard as you can.
> Summons cheese (SCS bug alert): there is a bug in the coding of the Warden that causes him to ignore summons if he cannot see the PC and is not already in attack mode. His contingencies can still fire (and these are sometimes enough to kill summons in their own right) and naturally this only works if the Yuan-ti are already gone.
> If that is the case, any decent summon that lasts for a while can kill the Warden without riposte if sent to face him without the PC. It will take the summon some time to work through the Warden's Stoneskins; but otherwise, the Warden will just stand there and do nothing while the summon tears him apart.
> The Air Elemental (from the Staff of Air) is a good summon to do this.
For protection I go with Spell Deflection - Spell Shield - Spell Immunity:Abjuration - Protection from Energy
Failing that, some rapid-fire and sustained debuffers could keep his defenses down. A Pierce Shield+Khelben's Warding Whip+Pierce Shield Chain Contingency, followed by Pierce Magic or Warding Whip spells and Breaches, would remove PFMW faster than Kangaxx could restore it, provided you had multiple mages in the party and were still fully buffed against Trap the Soul (which Kangaxx can use in the same round as a spell) by the time Kangaxx left his lich form.
For me, this is one of my cop-out Protection from Magic scrolls fights. There are 2 demiliches and 2 scrolls, so that's where I use them (I don't have the Spellstrike can dispel it component installed).
In theory you should be able to tank it with enough protections. The revised Trap the Soul has a save vs death at -6 (and you need protection from level drain) so definitely doable with a Potion of Magic Shielding + Amulet of Power. But I'll have to defer to those that have done it.
Actually I have a feeling there's a Youtube video out there where someone takes on the WK demilich with a solo sorcerer which you might want to check out. Basically uses a ton of Spell Shields to avoid getting debuffed and Imprisonment to get rid of the summons quickly and just waits out the demiliches protections.