I do not like the simplification of character details in Inventory UI

Franpa

Please only provide feedback for the Inventory UI in this discussion topic, for other aspects of the UI please make a new discussion topic.

v1.3 Enhanced Edition BG1: http://i.imgur.com/MSZNOJ9.png
v1.3 Enhanced Edition BG2: http://i.imgur.com/ayhTrsS.jpg
v2.0 Beta Enhanced Edition BG1: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=638827191
v2.0 Beta Enhanced Edition BG2: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639924788

v2.0 beta UI tooltip demonstration: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639924838
Changing gear in v2.0 beta UI: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639931878

I do not like having to mouse over the information of my character to view the details, I greatly prefer being able to see all of the details. I also do not like that I can only view the details of one element of my character at any one time in the Inventory (I can mouse over hitpoints to see details about it but I can't mouse over hitpoints and THAC0 simultaneously to see info about them both at the same time for example).

I also assume it still doesn't separately list elemental damage in the Damage box because "There aren't many things in the game that produce elemental damage so why bother?" which is annoying, disappointing and makes the Damage information and "stat changes/comparison" display inaccurate when elemental damage is involved.

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Xendhaius

pointfiveo said:

Wait, what? Is that thing going to also replace the current BG2EE inventory UI?

Technically, it already has as patch 2.0 is in public beta.

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Dee

The layout in BGII:EE is the same as in BG:EE. (That isn't to say someone shouldn't post a screenshot, of course.)

Keep the feedback coming, folks. Good or bad, it's all helpful.

Xendhaius

pointfiveo said:

Does anyone have screenshots of the inventory UI in BG2EE 2.0? I understand the screenshot in the original post is from the first game?

Here you go:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/315621401163594247/19FC7A2CB2674F6B7B3A915BE8C98F1DAD1AC415/

Tresset

@Dee The one thing I have noticed that is sorely missing from the inventory page is a place that lists APR. I think I will make an issue ticket for that now should there not already be one.

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Xendhaius

pointfiveo said:

Okay, sorry I have to say this but here goes... Where did the ornaments and filigree go? Where's the AC escutcheon? Baldur's Gate 2 UI is brown — not dark bluish grey.

I thought the upcoming patch was about fixing existing bugs and introducing some new functionality. What we have here instead is an utter rape of the classic inventory UI.

edit: The screenshot provided by Xendhaius still shows a brown UI with some ornaments in BG2EE. Which one is it going to be?

The UI layouts are the same for BG:EE, Siege of Dragonspear, and BG2:EE, however they each have their own visual flair. BG:EE has that bland blue, SoD has that sexy black, and BG2:EE has the highly stylized brown.

I'll admit I would like to see BG:EE and SoD UIs to be more stylized akin to how they handled BG2:EEs. Though I'd rather have them tweak it to be more functional as the OP suggested before prettying them up visually. Function should always be prioritized over style.

Tresset said:

@Dee The one thing I have noticed that is sorely missing from the inventory page is a place that lists APR. I think I will make an issue ticket for that now should there not already be one.

APR is shown when you hover over Damage. Basically, everything that was original shown to the right of each stat is now displayed when you hover over the statistic.

Franpa

A suggestion would be to use a tabbed view for the Character information panel within the Inventory display, one Tab shows all the details like the old UI and the other tab will change it to how it is currently displayed in v2.0? Or an option to change the view via some options menu.

It's the best of both worlds with minimal clutter.

Xendhaius

Franpa said:

A suggestion would be to use a tabbed view for the Character information panel within the Inventory display, one Tab shows all the details like the old UI and the other tab will change it to how it is currently displayed in v2.0? Or an option to change the view via some options menu.

It's the best of both worlds with minimal clutter.

Though I have no knowledge of the difficulty in implementing this, I fully agree that this is how it should be handled. I personally love the new layout, though still appreciate the original and see how people prefer it, we've been looking at it for 18 years after all.

Franpa

I added some more images to the original post to better showcase the new UI functionality, I also included a picture of the new UI for BG2.

megamike15

removed and moved

Tresset

Xendhaius said:

APR is shown when you hover over Damage. Basically, everything that was original shown to the right of each stat is now displayed when you hover over the statistic.

Just noticed that. I still made a report, because I think APR is important enough to be made available at a glance.

Franpa

I added an image that specifically showcases the tooltip that includes APR, I also just now included one final image to showcase the New UI when changing gear. This should be enough images for non-beta testers to formulate an opinion.

AstroBryGuy

@pointfiveo - The screenshot posted by franpa is the BG:EE inventory screen, not BG2:EE. The color for the BG:EE screens has been consistently the bluish-grey. BG2:EE is brown, consistent with BG2. SoD will use a black theme.

IMHO, the current AC/HP/THAC0/Damage display is info overload. As illustrated by franpa's BG2:EE screenshot, there's usually so much information, it can't fit into the little windows (e.g., Base THAC0, racial bonus, ability bonus, proficiency bonus, weapon bonus, spell bonuses, etc..). So, you have to scroll to read it all. Much easier to just mouse over (or single tap on a tablet) and bring up a "tooltip" than to fiddle with the scroll bars on those little info windows.

Of course, if you prefer the original EE-screen, the new UI is supposed to be extremely moddable, so you can probably make a UI mod to recreate it - or even to recreate the original BG2 inventory screen.

Xendhaius

Franpa said:

I added some more images to the original post to better showcase the new UI functionality, I also included a picture of the new UI for BG2.

Your screenshot for the Old BG1 is actually BG2's old UI.

This is BG1's old UI, featuring the same blue as the new one:
https://lh6.ggpht.com/Jx1jVJTjXaFXDnh7HUqYMUH5iiuShABwDLJqkL7sTdS2xRlZGezjeDIAUW9-dZhG2cU=h900

Franpa

Xendhaius said:

Franpa said:

I added some more images to the original post to better showcase the new UI functionality, I also included a picture of the new UI for BG2.

Your screenshot for the Old BG1 is actually BG2's old UI.

This is BG1's old UI, featuring the same blue as the new one:
https://lh6.ggpht.com/Jx1jVJTjXaFXDnh7HUqYMUH5iiuShABwDLJqkL7sTdS2xRlZGezjeDIAUW9-dZhG2cU=h900

Okay, my mistake. I've relabeled it as the Original BG2 UI. I've added Xendhaius's image to the first post.

Franpa

Alternative suggestion would be to just combine the 2 systems: http://i.imgur.com/7D9Y1b7.jpg (This is a mockup, I know the values don't match each other)

Natreg

Or maybe just a key button that will show the information that is accessed through tooltip.

So, you get the usual info there as it is right now, then you press a key and it shows the other information.

Another thing is that I don't see why you are using a table now. Why not use the old graphics like the shield for THAC0 and just duplicate it once it's necessary. So you get it mostly as it was before, and when selecting a weapon, the second column fills with the same graphics as the first one but with the new info.

If this new UI is as editable as it is it should be possible to do it.


Also, I got a question here, if we add new UI layouts does it mean that we have to overwrite the old one or can we select a layout from a list of installed ones? My personal opinion is that we should get somekind of list on the options and also if possible have a "classic" layout and a "new" layout (the default one). That will make everyone happy.

Flashburn

Agreed, OP. There was no reason for the inventory UI to be redesigned in the first place. It is just fine the way it is now in v1.3. All the information is right there in front of you.

In an effort to further streamline BG's UI, it seems that multiple steps back have been taken instead, which is why I also think that the new Character Record screen is total garbage.

cmk24

Flashburn said:

Agreed, OP. There was no reason for the inventory UI to be redesigned in the first place. It is just fine the way it is now in v1.3. All the information is right there in front of you.

In an effort to further streamline BG's UI, it seems that multiple steps back have been taken instead, which is why I also think that the new Character Record screen is total garbage.

For the most part these changes make using the inventory much easier on phones/tablets where scroll boxes are a pain to deal with. Also this new UI works much better with larger font sizes.

GreenWarlock

I like the cleanliness of the new UI, but fear it is losing a little flavor. D&D is more than just a series of numbers, but when we do get overloaded with numbers, it is nice to get the flavor of what each one means, The noisy break-out box given all the info about how a given number is calculated includes a sufficient flavor in the text, even if it seems an arbitrary game-specific bonus, to keep me engaged with the character. When I am simply looking at bland totals, there is nothing cool or special about how I am achieving blank numbers, and some of the flavor drains out of the game.

I believe one of the secrets of BG's longevity has been the flavor in an increasingly bland mass-market games industry.

BelegCuthalion

I see the problem of the 1.3 display, as these small windows are always overloaded and all the numbers are not "just there", they are in a pile of text, puctuation, scrolling, etc. In UI design, working with fixed size boxes never is a good idea if content is flexible.

But i fully agree to GreenWarlock, saying that the flavour is lost in the current display ... i don't want to see obvious tables in a fantasy role playing setting ...

Pecca

Flashburn said:

Agreed, OP. There was no reason for the inventory UI to be redesigned in the first place. It is just fine the way it is now in v1.3. All the information is right there in front of you.

cmk24 said:

For the most part these changes make using the inventory much easier on phones/tablets where scroll boxes are a pain to deal with. Also this new UI works much better with larger font sizes.

If I had to guess the reason why it has been redesigned, it's this. Many changes were done with tablets in mind (leaving us, PC geeks, frustrated of course).

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AstroBryGuy

pointfiveo said:

GreenWarlock said:

I like the cleanliness of the new UI, but fear it is losing a little flavor.

That's the thing! This is supposed to be D&D — not freaking Halo or EVE Online; Filigree and ornaments instead of modern, clean lines.

It's not like they've made a "metal" or abstract interface. It still has the "dungeon" look. They've just made it cleaner and easier to read, especially on smaller screens like tablets.

Graphical elements like the "AC shield" are fine when you support any screen size as long as it's 640x480 . But, when you have variable font sizes and variable amounts of information, fixed graphical blocks are bad for the UI. The screenshots previously posted show what happens when you have more than 3 modifiers to a score (scrollbars on mini-windows), or you adaptively shrink the text to the point of being unreadable to get it into the fixed UI element. Either way

So, the new UI uses big blocks to accommodate large font sizes for elements with fixed amounts of information (e.g., AC, THAC0, HP). Variable-size information (e.g., breakdowns) gets displayed in a adaptable tooltip element.

pointfiveo said:

Even the new tooltips are flat. Not only was there nothing wrong with the scroll tooltips, they were simply better.

Actually, there were problems with the scroll tooltips. As noted in the first link below, the scroll was of a fixed height, so text would resize to fit into the scroll, which could be unreadably small - a problem of interface elements designed for a limited screen size.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34109/tooltip-barely-changes-when-increasing-font-size

There were also issues with high-res displays.



https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34621/16058-all-tooltip-font-size-too-small-to-read-on-mac-retina-displays-high-resolution-monitors

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antimatter3009

No offense meant to anyone, but I have to say I think people pining for the old interface are maybe being a bit nostalgic. That thing is a mess to navigate on my 27" PC monitor with a mouse, let alone on my 8" touchscreen tablet I also play on. The text overflowed weirdly onto multiple lines, the scrolling was wonky, it was not very "glanceable" anyway, etc. That said, I also agree the new one is a bit bland. I think it would be better to keep the new interface, but add some flavor back into it. It could be something as simple as changing the borders of the table or something like that, just to make it fit in better than what currently looks roughly like a spreadsheet.

Adul

I'm hoping for a tooltip design improvement. I don't think they have to be animated like the original was, but some texture and a sound would be nice. Maybe a very short fade time. You know. Make it seem like it fits into the game a little.

As for the inventory, yes, I have to agree. The detailed breakdowns were immensely more useful than the stat comparison is. If I want to compare the stats, I can just go ahead and swap the items in my equip slot repeatedly. It's easy. The breakdowns, however, were very helpful not only to veterans, but also to new players by showing to them how their stats are calculated. Removing the breakdowns from the screen in favor of the comparison is a bad choice, in my opinion.

Another problem with the item comparison thing, and this includes the portrait highlights, too: they make the inventory sluggish. The algorithms that fire every time you pick up or handle a piece of equipment cause noticeable lag. The BG inventory was simple and snappy, now it's slow and painful to use. Please provide the option to turn off both item comparisons and portrait highlights, but to be honest, I think these features actually cause more harm than good and I would advise removing them altogether or having them turned off by default.

Flashburn

@Adul
I have noticed this lag too. It feels more like an FPS slowdown to me, though, since moving an item with the mouse feels jagged and labored instead of smooth and snappy as it does right now in v1.3.

The inventory highlighting is more of an irritation than a help, too. An option to turn that off would be nice.