Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

I do not like the simplification of character details in Inventory UI

12346

Comments

  • Nothing_to_see_hereNothing_to_see_here Member Posts: 31
    There are quite a lot of posts asking for APR to be shown, and while I fully support the idea that it's a very important figure, I'm going the other route. Don't show it. Incorporate it in the damage box instead. So if Damage should show 5-12, and APR should show 2, show Damage 10-24 instead. Just show damage/round instead since that's the important stat. With all the rest as tooltip.

    On that note I would like to say that I'm far from a fan of "my" game on my 24" monitor being streamlined for use on a 8" screen, but I guess that's a battle that is already lost... But if that is something that could be easily modded now, then I'm not complaining. A proper inventory screen made to fill my whole screen with a lot of useless numbers is the dream. :)

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,824

    So if Damage should show 5-12, and APR should show 2, show Damage 10-24 instead.

    I don't agree.

    The worst I can imagine is when the game shows something wrong. Damage 5-12 and 2 APR is completely different from Damage 10-24 and 1 APR.

    AdulDurenasXKalHurricane
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    APR also tells me how many different targets I might engage in a single round, which is probably more relevant for missile weapons than melee - although certainly can be useful for both.

  • Nothing_to_see_hereNothing_to_see_here Member Posts: 31
    bengoshi said:


    I don't agree.

    The worst I can imagine is when the game shows something wrong. Damage 5-12 and 2 APR is completely different from Damage 10-24 and 1 APR.

    But it's not wrong. It's damage/round and not damage/hit, and damage/round is the more important quick info.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,376
    But what about resistances and what not? Or a backstab multiplier.

    Not to mention that APR has additional advantages, such as more chance to interrupt.

    I don't mind adding a total DPS value somewhere in the tooltip, but APR and Damage are two separate things.

    XKal
  • XKalXKal Member Posts: 58

    There are quite a lot of posts asking for APR to be shown, and while I fully support the idea that it's a very important figure, I'm going the other route. Don't show it. Incorporate it in the damage box instead. So if Damage should show 5-12, and APR should show 2, show Damage 10-24 instead. Just show damage/round instead since that's the important stat. With all the rest as tooltip.

    On that note I would like to say that I'm far from a fan of "my" game on my 24" monitor being streamlined for use on a 8" screen, but I guess that's a battle that is already lost... But if that is something that could be easily modded now, then I'm not complaining. A proper inventory screen made to fill my whole screen with a lot of useless numbers is the dream. :)

    No thank you. That would be so utterly confusing for the new players this UI is ostensibly supposed to be helping.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,376
    mlnevese said:

    The problem with adding DPS and other modern concepts to BG and BG II is that they simply do not apply.

    If you have 2 attacks per round you can:

    1) hit both
    2) miss both
    3) hit one

    So the information that you do 5-12 points of damage and have two attacks per round in no way translates as you doing 10-24 damage per round unless situation number 1 happens.

    And that is not even counting things like damage resistance, immunity or vulnerability.

    Exactly why I wouldn't want DPS (which is what Nothing_to_see_here's suggestion practically came down to), as the lead number, the number you see up front.

    That said, a DPS calculation wouldn't hurt to have somewhere in the notes. If I have a weapon that deals, say, 4-10 damage at 5 attacks per 2 rounds, and another weapon that deals 4-12 damage at 2 attacks per round, it's still hard on a glance to see which weapon would deal more damage.

    Saying that DPS in general cannot be applied to Baldur's Gate is ignorant. It can very well be. DPS can easily be calculated.

    First option is to simply calculate the DPS you would do on Hits. Forget for a moment that attacks can miss, and check the raw damage assuming all attacks would hit. If both weapons lead to the same THAC0, then it's still an effective comparison between the two weapons. Say your THAC0 should allow you to only hit 60% of the time against a specific target, that would then apply with both weapons, so both weapons would have their effective DPS reduced by 40%, ergo, their ratios would remain the same.

    Second option would be to calculate the DPS against a specific target AC, for example, AC0. Again take the DPS by multiplying Damage against APR, then calculate the hit chance against AC0, and multiply that with the DPS to get the effective DPS. Of course, that would skewer the results a bit against opponents with much higher or much lower AC, but you could always adjust the target AC.

    Not that I expect something like that to happen. That would then require explanation on how that DPS is calculated, which would probably make things more confusing than less. A simple "Damage per Round" under the assumption that all attacks would hit is not that problematic.

    Also, you're misinterpreting "modern concepts" if you think that the DPS for such games is exact. For the vast majority of games, it also assumes certain values, or omits certain factors, exactly like how that would apply to BG. The main difference is that BG ain't about the raw damage output so much as in most of these more modern games.

    Regardless, APR itself is a major factor in the effectiveness of a weapon, and something you need to actually base decisions on, so it would be nice if it was elsewhere than under the tooltip of a different value.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    I find speed factor hard to factor in when comparing weapons potential damage output against each other.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    @Dee It's awesome that you guys took the idea to have both interfaces accessible, thanks for listening!

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Much like the Character Record screen, we have ideas for how to improve the Inventory screen on a more permanent basis, but the current version gives you the original behavior with a layer of "new" on top.

    mf2112
  • cesil123cesil123 Member Posts: 3


    1.Please remove inventory highlight. It cause lag everytime when I move items.
    2.Please put Number of attacks on inventory pages.

    thanks

    brad
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    edited April 2016
    I think it might be better to cache the highlights, the inventory does lag due to this(it doesn't lag with items that aren't compared) but it shouldn't lag that much every time and at the time of writing my SoD client uses 210Mb of ram so it should be doable to cache it if it's not already done(and it would be something else posing problem).

    Edit : Actually, 210 Mb sounds terribly low compared to what I had seen before so it may be more like 1gb on modded BG2EE but saving values for each item in the inventory still shouldn't take too much place.

  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 451
    Caching likely means to put this out of the UI script code to the game internals code (it's an assumption by me) ... this may be faster then but is not moddable anymore, so has a major disadvantage.
    Maybe there is potential to optimize the UI scripting code though.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637

    I think it might be better to cache the highlights, the inventory does lag due to this(it doesn't lag with items that aren't compared) but it shouldn't lag that much every time and at the time of writing my SoD client uses 210Mb of ram so it should be doable to cache it if it's not already done(and it would be something else posing problem).

    Edit : Actually, 210 Mb sounds terribly low compared to what I had seen before so it may be more like 1gb on modded BG2EE but saving values for each item in the inventory still shouldn't take too much place.

    The volatility of the inventory contents (It often changes) likely makes a caching mechanism unfeasible. Perhaps if they got rid of the "compare against unselected companions" aspect of it it would alleviate enough of the burden for the lag to be largely imperceptible. Alternatively perform the comparison in a separate thread and display the comparison once it has finished calculating, this will keep the UI feeling responsive.

    Adul
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    The usability tag don't often change though so you could realistically cache up to (6x41) compatibility tables which would be 6x41x6 values which is basically nothing and then retrieve these values instead of recalculating them, you would then calculate the compatibility table of an item upon adding it to anyone's inventory instead of upon selecting the item.

    Even if there was different compatibility values to track for each character, it would multiply the memory used a bit. It could start being a problem if we kept the insides of containers in the cache too but first this isn't required and second, there is much margin to be gained by grouping items with identical usability tags( eg, spell scrolls of the same school, non restricted items, all but X items).

    This could still be an issue if you access the ground from the inventory but those could just be put in a more temporary cache that's cleared upon leaving the inventory page. Currently it seems like if I select/deselect/select an item, it will calculate the usability twice.

    I do not claim to know the details of the feasibility of this or not as I have never worked with the infinity engine and am still learning programmation but that seems plausible enough to be discussed as a solution to the observed problem.

  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605

    The usability tag don't often change though so you could realistically cache up to (6x41) compatibility tables which would be 6x41x6 values which is basically nothing and then retrieve these values instead of recalculating them, you would then calculate the compatibility table of an item upon adding it to anyone's inventory instead of upon selecting the item.

    Even if there was different compatibility values to track for each character, it would multiply the memory used a bit. It could start being a problem if we kept the insides of containers in the cache too but first this isn't required and second, there is much margin to be gained by grouping items with identical usability tags( eg, spell scrolls of the same school, non restricted items, all but X items).

    This could still be an issue if you access the ground from the inventory but those could just be put in a more temporary cache that's cleared upon leaving the inventory page. Currently it seems like if I select/deselect/select an item, it will calculate the usability twice.

    I do not claim to know the details of the feasibility of this or not as I have never worked with the infinity engine and am still learning programmation but that seems plausible enough to be discussed as a solution to the observed problem.

    There would need to be many more values than that considering how many items can fit in containers you carry (bag of holding, amo case, scroll case, gem bag, etc...)

  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    I talked about that in my post though. Since the containers aren't on the same screen as the inventory, they don't use the highlights function so you don't have to calculate the tables for items that are inside the containers, you only have to calculate them for items that go from containers to inventory.

    But even if you wanted to cache the compatibility tables of containers, it would be possible to find ways to group similar items together.

  • illathidillathid Member Posts: 320
    I've not experienced any inventory lag at all. Is that true of anyone else?

    cmk24
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    illathid said:

    I've not experienced any inventory lag at all. Is that true of anyone else?

    I have not seen any lags either, but seeing as I am playing on a gaming PC I don't expect to regardless of how (un)optimized the code is. I am actually wondering what the system specs are for the people that see a lag.

    illathid
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    I have an I5 2500k 3.3GHz that can handle recent games like The Witcher 3 fine along my GTX 960 so it shouldn't be a problem.

    The lag is a slight lag for me though. To notice it, spam clic on an unidentified item(calculations for usability aren't made) and see how it is selected and deselected without any lag at all.

    Now try to do the same with an identified equippable item and you'll see how it isn't as fast as before, I suppose because of the calculations being remade every single time.

  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605

    I have an I5 2500k 3.3GHz that can handle recent games like The Witcher 3 fine along my GTX 960 so it shouldn't be a problem.

    The lag is a slight lag for me though. To notice it, spam clic on an unidentified item(calculations for usability aren't made) and see how it is selected and deselected without any lag at all.

    Now try to do the same with an identified equippable item and you'll see how it isn't as fast as before, I suppose because of the calculations being remade every single time.

    Did exactly that and don't see any noticeable lag on my PC. Also your specs are higher than mine, so not sure why you are seeing this lag. FYI my specs are AMD FX-8350 CPU with at GX 760 GPU.

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    I get the equipment comparison lag, and I have an AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.39 GHz CPU and a GeForce GTX 970 4GB GPU.

    Beamdog, please allow us to disable equipment comparison and portrait highlighting. These features are not worth the lag that some of us are experiencing.

    Ardul
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    @cmk24 try doing it with a comparaison heavy item, like a dagger that anyone can equip maybe? It's also noticeable when quickly changing an item in the inventory.

  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 267
    edited April 2016

    @cmk24 try doing it with a comparaison heavy item, like a dagger that anyone can equip maybe? It's also noticeable when quickly changing an item in the inventory.

    Yeah I tried swapping repeatedly and quickly a dagger with a sling that everyone could use. Half the time the click didn't register. There was a clear half a second or so delay before i could swap the items again. Trying it with an item that only one character could use was way less noticeable.

    I have a very decent gaming pc if that is a factor.

  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 505
    I just want to chime in that the equipment comparison highlight lags me as well. Is it possible to turn it off?

  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,279
    Amberion said:

    I just want to chime in that the equipment comparison highlight lags me as well. Is it possible to turn it off?

    Not yet I believe, but as more people have posted about this perhaps it is something the devs will pick up and put in the upcoming patch.

  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605

    @cmk24 try doing it with a comparaison heavy item, like a dagger that anyone can equip maybe? It's also noticeable when quickly changing an item in the inventory.

    Tried this with a full party of 6 and still see no lag on my PC.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,327
    Does not matter that it does not happen on your side. If it happens with other pcs that meet the requirements it is an issue.

    cmk24
Sign In or Register to comment.