Redmine for this event was a bit of a trial run. We need to look at it a bit after, but I've been reasonably happy with how it's worked for this event.
And I say again, the fact that modders can change the UI layout is not meant as a cop to "if you don't like it, tough noogies". If you don't like it, we definitely want to know why so that we can look at ways to make it better. But if you're feeling ambitious and you just want the old layout back, the new UI system does allow for that. When we get closer I'll put together a guide (maybe with the help of a programmer...) on how to make changes. Familiarity with some programming languages like Lua will be a help, but it really is straight-forward. I was able to fix the Strength display on the Record screen by myself using a trio of if/then statements. Me. I was able to do that.
That sounds awesome. I'm really looking forward to checking out the UI modding options after the update.
My pet peeve is the inventory slowdowns caused by the equipment comparison in the v2.0 UI. Do you know whether it's possible to mod that out and get rid of the lag?
Redmine for this event was a bit of a trial run. We need to look at it a bit after, but I've been reasonably happy with how it's worked for this event.
It needs a more intuitive method of editing your original submission text and a dark theme like these forums use!
Redmine for this event was a bit of a trial run. We need to look at it a bit after, but I've been reasonably happy with how it's worked for this event.
It needs a more intuitive method of editing your original submission text and a dark theme like these forums use!
I agree with both of these statements, but especially the first one.
You keep saying no one asked for this and that was done "without consent or desire." But you're wrong, you didn't ask for this. I did. I wanted a better UI for baldurs gate for a long time. I'm glad to see it happening.
So you get what you want, and fun everyone else and a system that has been established and present for years on end? Sounds fair and legit. Glad everyone is happy with this outcome and all opinions were considered. Oh wait.
And I say again, the fact that modders can change the UI layout is not meant as a cop to "if you don't like it, tough noogies". If you don't like it, we definitely want to know why so that we can look at ways to make it better. But if you're feeling ambitious and you just want the old layout back, the new UI system does allow for that. When we get closer I'll put together a guide (maybe with the help of a programmer...) on how to make changes. Familiarity with some programming languages like Lua will be a help, but it really is straight-forward. I was able to fix the Strength display on the Record screen by myself using a trio of if/then statements. Me. I was able to do that.
Still sounds to me like tough noogies. "If you don't like it we'll put together a guide on how to make changes, you'll need to have programming language". -_- My point is that this is a wholly unnecessary step and hoop that I the player shouldn't have to be forced to jump through because of some change that I don't even want in the first place. I don't have any programming language experience at all, which is why it seems odd for the actual programmers and devs here to whisk this away and make it harder than it needs to be to rectify back to the desired default post-release, and why it stands to reason that a 'standby' of the classic should be offered for D-day as it were - if this really is as easy as all these claims are insinuating then it should be a snap to provide to us, right?
Man, steam workshop support and a day 1 patch/mod to revert this would be an ideal albeit sloppy workaround.
@Stoibs Keep an eye on the profanity. This site has rules about staying PG-13.
I'm not going to engage any further on this topic, though. I've explained what I meant in the FAQ, and you've clearly decided how you want to interpret it despite my clarification.
I like many stuff about new one, there are some stuff that might be bad but they can change it later. If you absolutely hate it you have mods to go back.
I wasn't given a choice in 1998 how the ui should be, the blob and hard to compare weapons and all the other things were just given to me by bioware over my head and despite my dislike ... I wasn't even given a chance to change anything about that and they never changed it themselves before abandoning the game. But luckily some of us who speak for the silent majority obviously felt all was perfect, so why change it now?
I've explained what I meant in the FAQ, and you've clearly decided how you want to interpret it despite my clarification.
I'm reading that Clarification about the FAQ and not interpreting it any other way though..
FAQ: "Can I disable the UI changes?
The design of the various UI screens is set; there's no way to revert them in-game to what they were before. However, the new UI system makes it a much easier proposition to change the way screens are laid out and designed; if you liked the old Character Record, there's a good change you or someone from the modding community can recreate that layout here."
Your Post here: "If you don't like it, we definitely want to know why so that we can look at ways to make it better. But if you're feeling ambitious and you just want the old layout back, the new UI system does allow for that. When we get closer I'll put together a guide (maybe with the help of a programmer...) on how to make changes. Familiarity with some programming languages like Lua will be a help, but it really is straight-forward. I was able to fix the Strength display on the Record screen by myself using a trio of if/then statements. Me. I was able to do that."
I'm sorry I can't read between whatever apparent lines you were trying to imply to me..? It really sounds to me like "No we aren't changing back, if you know coding then you or the community can probably fix it back though". Keep hearing about how 'easy' it should be to mod and rectify, well if that's the case then it should be no dilemma for Beamdog to whip one up and have it prepared for the launch for us to use. Yes..? No..? Yes..? I even suggested how much easier and intuitive it would be via workshop support and have been offering other suggestions in various other threads.
Clearly I'm missing something here if this isn't actually the case however.
Doing such a mod officially means to support it officially too, making that two uis to maintain, test, expand and so on. It would doubling all ui related work. You'd be the first to complain if something was not to your liking of if a new feature you still may like would not equally be integrated in the old ui like the new one (I hear "second class users" quite clear already. Having that done as a mod (and I have no doubt there will be one) means beamdog does not have to guarantee it's functional in all aspects now and with future features. So yes, it is sane for them to say clear they are not going to do that (not to disrespect old players but to keep the development in one trunk, not branching), but giving the tools to do it at least (something we didn't have back in ye Goode olde days).
Doing such a mod officially means to support it officially too, making that two uis to maintain, test, expand and so on. It would doubling all ui related work. You'd be the first to complain if something was not to your liking of if a new feature you still may like would not equally be integrated in the old ui like the new one (I hear "second class users" quite clear already. Having that done as a mod (and I have no doubt there will be one) means beamdog does not have to guarantee it's functional in all aspects now and with future features. So yes, it is sane for them to say clear they are not going to do that (not to disrespect old players but to keep the development in one trunk, not branching), but giving the tools to do it at least (something we didn't have back in ye Goode olde days).
Not only that, there's budget issues to deal with as well. Making two versions would double the man hours needed to do this feature. That could mean some bugs go unfixed, new content goes added, etc. Game development is often a zero sum game.
Are there any comparison shots of the old and new GUI?
Here are comparison screenshots of v1.3 Enhanced Edition and the 2.0 Enhanced Edition beta, there are images of the original Inventory UI in the Inventory UI topic somewhere.
Good joke. I welcome UI improvements, but the current beta UI is not "better."
The functionality as such is obviously better in its current implementation, and regarding options for future improvements / for mod improvements. There are many things that can be done now that were unthinkable before (not even dared to ask for them, but not because they were not wanted but because an implementation was out of question until now).
The current implementation of the new functionality is rather typical for a beta or even a #.0 release ... there's room for optimization in all corners in layout, behaviour, bugs and style, but one can see where this can go when streamlined with feedback and time to optimize in 2.1 and further.
Functionally and usability-wise I find the current UI lacking compared to the v1.3 one, but to be fair, that is to be expected after a huge update that replaces the code behind all the screens. The v2.0 UI should obviously be improved in numerous areas. Unfortunately, all the issues are not going to be solved by release.
As for modding possibilities, the new UI is said to be improved. I haven't yet seen what this means exactly (I might have missed it), though at this point I'm fairly hopeful that great things could be done with the new UI system.
As for modding possibilities, the new UI is said to be improved. I haven't yet seen what this means exactly (I might have missed it), though at this point I'm fairly hopeful that great things could be done with the new UI system.
I believe they've better separated the display elements in to their own files and have made it easier to access and derive information from internal values so you can more easily and more likely display the information that you want to display, in the location that you want it to appear in.
Are there any comparison shots of the old and new GUI?
Here are comparison screenshots of v1.3 Enhanced Edition and the 2.0 Enhanced Edition beta, there are images of the original Inventory UI in the Inventory UI topic somewhere.
While I somehow can live with the new character sheet, I have to say that the new inventory screen looks really really bad. I don't want a Microsoft Open Office Table in my inventory, but nice little graphics and detailled information as we had with Vanilla and EE.
I think if some cool details were added to make it look more high fantasy, older, more appropriate for the setting, it would work. It's a bit bland right now.
I think if some cool details were added to make it look more high fantasy, older, more appropriate for the setting, it would work. It's a bit bland right now.
After beating the main campaign in Ice Wind Dale I've come to the conclusion that I really dislike the Inventory UI having information in tooltips instead of it always being visible. The current implementation just seems incredibly underwhelming compared to what we had and now I have to mouse over multiple things and wait a period of time each time to get bits of information instead of having most info available from the get go and scrolling to get more info if it was ever necessary.
The new UI is sure is something to get use to, I'm not so sure if I like it or not, but it does seem like a lot of effort and thinking gone into it, it need a lot more improving which I believe Beamdog will keep putting into it. One of the think I don't like is that I don't know where thing are, I mean it take time to find out under what label they put stuff like reputation, lore et cetera, while in the old UI I knew were to find them instantly but like I said at the beginning this is one of those thing one need to get use to. I agree with the comments that it doesn't have the BG feel to it but I hope it will change with the improvements.
One of the think I don't like is that I don't know where thing are, I mean it take time to find out under what label they put stuff like reputation, lore et cetera, while in the old UI I knew were to find them instantly
Pretty much yeah. It's why I just keep shaking my head at all these other posters who are stating their subjective opinions as though it were gospel or objective fact . ("Obviously the beta one's layout is functionally better, yadda yadda yadda").
When something that I originally beelined toward and was able to get information from within seconds now took me several minutes to find out where they've decided to jam (and to be honest here - was the catalyst for me creating an account here on these Beamdog forums in the first place and seek out to see if anyone else was as pissed off at the changes as me and if there was an option to opt-out) then yeah, I tend to consider that a bit of a step backward and change for the sake of arbitrary change, not for the better since it takes a very special type of unwanted change for me to take drastic steps such as that as opposed to gritting my teeth and rolling with the punches.
Hence my ongoing annoyance at the situation and the dev's nonchalant lack of caring or respect, plus that handwaving post in the FAQ and here which is even more infuriating (Which they haven't clarified or responded to my most recent post here of, so I can only assume what I posted here seeking clarification was indeed actually correct).
Doing such a mod officially means to support it officially too, making that two uis to maintain, test, expand and so on. It would doubling all ui related work. You'd be the first to complain if something was not to your liking of if a new feature you still may like would not equally be integrated in the old ui like the new one (I hear "second class users" quite clear already. Having that done as a mod (and I have no doubt there will be one) means beamdog does not have to guarantee it's functional in all aspects now and with future features. So yes, it is sane for them to say clear they are not going to do that (not to disrespect old players but to keep the development in one trunk, not branching), but giving the tools to do it at least (something we didn't have back in ye Goode olde days).
So they're willing to arbitrarily take something away from us that I and many people were fine with for close to two decades, but aren't willing to give a suitable replacement or compromise for the affected parties despite going on about how easy it is to mod and stating 'Ya'll should be able to fix it back up' as a selling point and method used to try and alleviate the ongoing problem and divide this has clearly created. You've pretty much re-iterated and hit the nail on the head regarding my ongoing annoyance, feeling of dismay and betrayal, and the reason why I kind of lost a chunk of respect for these guys and why I consider this random out-of-the-blue change confusing and causing more problems than it is solving in a nice summery. And I doubt there would be anything to complain about since I haven't over the last ~17 years now - Assuming ofcourse it retained 1:1 functionality.
I like how I've been offering solutions and compromises and workarounds in every one of these threads like alternate .exe launchers, official workshop support, toggle options, pre-made mods such as the one the Devs alluded to in the FAQ (With the understanding that little or no support would need to be dedicated to this) etc. etc. yet people and mostly the devs keep shooting me down as though I'm just some ranting 'bad guy' here, which comes across as being completely unsympathetic to the plight of the the affected party. Just 'Nope', 'Nope', 'No that won't work', 'Nah the devs would have to do this then', 'Nah the Devs aren't willing to do that either'... Jesus christ.. That in itself is half the frustration I'm feeling and why it comes across as stubbornness and unwillingness to even consider us who are being affected from my point of view to be honest. Like, why am I even bothering leaving feedback and offering ideas on the *feedback* forum. Just trying to get a fix and solution and *OPTIONS* to this while it's still in Beta before all the inundation of complaints come in about the non-consensual and forced change once it goes live. Sorry for trying to help. F*** me right?
Just to make sure, installing the 2.0 patch (when it is released) will require a button to be pressed? Like if someone weren't happy with something in the new updates, they could continue to play BG:EE and BG2:EE 1.3 to their heart's content? There is no beamdog auto-update option? Thanks!
Well it would be utterly silly for them to scrap all the work now just before the launch. I bet it would be impossible unless they're willing to postpone 2.0 launch and postponing it at this point would be a pr nightmare. It would do no good to anyone.
The new UI is not *that* bad. It just needs more work. I really prefer the current UI we have now (1.3). There are intresting ideas behind this new ui design, but imo the big issue for me is that it is sort of hiding plenty of intresting information from the player. At the end of day the player needs to know and understand the details to have most fun playing. Sooner or later he wants to understand how AC or ThaCo is calculated and then he would rather have this information visible all the time. Or atleast I would.
One of the think I don't like is that I don't know where thing are, I mean it take time to find out under what label they put stuff like reputation, lore et cetera, while in the old UI I knew were to find them instantly
Pretty much yeah. It's why I just keep shaking my head at all these other posters who are stating their subjective opinions as though it were gospel or objective fact . ("Obviously the beta one's layout is functionally better, yadda yadda yadda").
When something that I originally beelined toward and was able to get information from within seconds now took me several minutes to find out where they've decided to jam (and to be honest here - was the catalyst for me creating an account here on these Beamdog forums in the first place and seek out to see if anyone else was as pissed off at the changes as me and if there was an option to opt-out) then yeah, I tend to consider that a bit of a step backward and change for the sake of arbitrary change, not for the better since it takes a very special type of unwanted change for me to take drastic steps such as that as opposed to gritting my teeth and rolling with the punches.
Hence my ongoing annoyance at the situation and the dev's nonchalant lack of caring or respect, plus that handwaving post in the FAQ and here which is even more infuriating (Which they haven't clarified or responded to my most recent post here of, so I can only assume what I posted here seeking clarification was indeed actually correct).
Doing such a mod officially means to support it officially too, making that two uis to maintain, test, expand and so on. It would doubling all ui related work. You'd be the first to complain if something was not to your liking of if a new feature you still may like would not equally be integrated in the old ui like the new one (I hear "second class users" quite clear already. Having that done as a mod (and I have no doubt there will be one) means beamdog does not have to guarantee it's functional in all aspects now and with future features. So yes, it is sane for them to say clear they are not going to do that (not to disrespect old players but to keep the development in one trunk, not branching), but giving the tools to do it at least (something we didn't have back in ye Goode olde days).
So they're willing to arbitrarily take something away from us that I and many people were fine with for close to two decades, but aren't willing to give a suitable replacement or compromise for the affected parties despite going on about how easy it is to mod and stating 'Ya'll should be able to fix it back up' as a selling point and method used to try and alleviate the ongoing problem and divide this has clearly created. You've pretty much re-iterated and hit the nail on the head regarding my ongoing annoyance, feeling of dismay and betrayal, and the reason why I kind of lost a chunk of respect for these guys and why I consider this random out-of-the-blue change confusing and causing more problems than it is solving in a nice summery. And I doubt there would be anything to complain about since I haven't over the last ~17 years now - Assuming ofcourse it retained 1:1 functionality.
I like how I've been offering solutions and compromises and workarounds in every one of these threads like alternate .exe launchers, official workshop support, toggle options, pre-made mods such as the one the Devs alluded to in the FAQ (With the understanding that little or no support would need to be dedicated to this) etc. etc. yet people and mostly the devs keep shooting me down as though I'm just some ranting 'bad guy' here, which comes across as being completely unsympathetic to the plight of the the affected party. Just 'Nope', 'Nope', 'No that won't work', 'Nah the devs would have to do this then', 'Nah the Devs aren't willing to do that either'... Jesus christ.. That in itself is half the frustration I'm feeling and why it comes across as stubbornness and unwillingness to even consider us who are being affected from my point of view to be honest. Like, why am I even bothering leaving feedback and offering ideas on the *feedback* forum. Just trying to get a fix and solution and *OPTIONS* to this while it's still in Beta before all the inundation of complaints come in about the non-consensual and forced change once it goes live. Sorry for trying to help. F*** me right?
Look, you, and several others, liked the old version better. Me, and several others, like the new version better. You'll never be able to please everyone. The question is how you can please the largest amount of people. If they stayed with the old version, I'd never be happy because no amount of modding could fix my subjective issues with it. However, the new version can be modded to fit your subjective views on what's best.
So if we kept the old version you'd be pleased and I would not be, but if we use the new version I'd be pleased and you would not be. The difference, however, is that in the second scenario you have the chance of actually being pleased as well once the old version is modded back in; in the first scenario I would not have that chance. QED it's better for Beamdog to keep the current version as it is likely to make the largest amount of people happy.
Just to make sure, installing the 2.0 patch (when it is released) will require a button to be pressed? Like if someone weren't happy with something in the new updates, they could continue to play BG:EE and BG2:EE 1.3 to their heart's content? There is no beamdog auto-update option? Thanks!
Yes, you don't have to install a patch with BeamDog client. In fact, you can copy-paste your game and have the original updated to v2.0 (to play SoD), while keeping the old (kopied) v1.3 intact.
@Stoibs Dee has clearly stated in previous posts that the dev team are collecting feedback to make the new UI more usable for all players. If you have any specific suggestions beyond "just go back to the old one" please post them, that way the dev team can work towards a UI everyone finds functional. Giving constructive feedback helps everyone.
After seeing @00zim00suggestion of improving the UI I really think that give it more of a BG feel and improve the data visibility and make more sense then in the way they are separated in the new UI as it is now. I also like the look of it better then the paper like view.
Hence my ongoing annoyance at the situation and the dev's nonchalant lack of caring or respect, plus that handwaving post in the FAQ and here which is even more infuriating (Which they haven't clarified or responded to my most recent post here of, so I can only assume what I posted here seeking clarification was indeed actually correct).
......I like how I've been offering solutions and compromises and workarounds in every one of these threads like alternate .exe launchers, official workshop support, toggle options, pre-made mods such as the one the Devs alluded to in the FAQ (With the understanding that little or no support would need to be dedicated to this) etc. etc. yet people and mostly the devs keep shooting me down as though I'm just some ranting 'bad guy' here, which comes across as being completely unsympathetic to the plight of the the affected party. Just 'Nope', 'Nope', 'No that won't work', 'Nah the devs would have to do this then', 'Nah the Devs aren't willing to do that either'... Jesus christ.. That in itself is half the frustration I'm feeling and why it comes across as stubbornness and unwillingness to even consider us who are being affected from my point of view to be honest. Like, why am I even bothering leaving feedback and offering ideas on the *feedback* forum. Just trying to get a fix and solution and *OPTIONS* to this while it's still in Beta before all the inundation of complaints come in about the non-consensual and forced change once it goes live. Sorry for trying to help. F*** me right?
@Stoibs I don't think @Dee or anyone of the dev's is lack of caring or respect for you or anyone else for that matter, they just answer for the best of there ability for your writing which from what I see is repeating what you don't like which is ok I agree to some extend (as I said before I don't like the way the data is present in the new UI ) tho I do see the potential in it, What me or the other can't see from your writing is what else are you suggesting beside going back to the old UI which in all honesty I don't think it possible at this point, so please if you have any idea of how to improve the new UI do share.
What me or the other can't see from your writing is what else are you suggesting beside going back to the old UI which in all honesty I don't think it possible at this point, so please if you have any idea of how to improve the new UI do share.
You actually already covered and said it in the beginning of your post coincidently enough. Man I can't actually remember which thread it was in now or if it was even this one (There's so damn many of these topics pertaining to the UI changes and controversy about it - which in its own right should be telling Beamdog something..but I digress..) but yeah I also said and suggested to just go with @00zim00's mockup design as the best solution and compromise a while ago. Aesthetically it feels like Baldur's Gate, and functionally it is the best of both worlds of keeping the text wall while still having the ability to see Class/stats/etc. on the other side, while still optionally having the specific category subheading along the top. Win-Win.
Keep in mind this thread and poll was asking if *we* were beamdog what *we* would do. *I* answered unflinchingly that *I* would change it back, or at the very least provide options to my fanbase and players rather than unceremoniously yank something away to the annoyance of ~17 year veterans. Being that *they* aren't going to do that however, what *they* should do is the aforementioned fan design mockup that blows their current beta UI out of the water to appease all parties. I'm sure I've already said this, and this whole thing just snowballed out of proportion once again.
Comments
My pet peeve is the inventory slowdowns caused by the equipment comparison in the v2.0 UI. Do you know whether it's possible to mod that out and get rid of the lag?
Sounds fair and legit. Glad everyone is happy with this outcome and all opinions were considered.
Oh wait.
Still sounds to me like tough noogies. "If you don't like it we'll put together a guide on how to make changes, you'll need to have programming language".
-_-
My point is that this is a wholly unnecessary step and hoop that I the player shouldn't have to be forced to jump through because of some change that I don't even want in the first place.
I don't have any programming language experience at all, which is why it seems odd for the actual programmers and devs here to whisk this away and make it harder than it needs to be to rectify back to the desired default post-release, and why it stands to reason that a 'standby' of the classic should be offered for D-day as it were - if this really is as easy as all these claims are insinuating then it should be a snap to provide to us, right?
Man, steam workshop support and a day 1 patch/mod to revert this would be an ideal albeit sloppy workaround.
I'm not going to engage any further on this topic, though. I've explained what I meant in the FAQ, and you've clearly decided how you want to interpret it despite my clarification.
FAQ:
"Can I disable the UI changes?
The design of the various UI screens is set; there's no way to revert them in-game to what they were before. However, the new UI system makes it a much easier proposition to change the way screens are laid out and designed; if you liked the old Character Record, there's a good change you or someone from the modding community can recreate that layout here."
Your Post here:
"If you don't like it, we definitely want to know why so that we can look at ways to make it better. But if you're feeling ambitious and you just want the old layout back, the new UI system does allow for that. When we get closer I'll put together a guide (maybe with the help of a programmer...) on how to make changes. Familiarity with some programming languages like Lua will be a help, but it really is straight-forward. I was able to fix the Strength display on the Record screen by myself using a trio of if/then statements. Me. I was able to do that."
I'm sorry I can't read between whatever apparent lines you were trying to imply to me..?
It really sounds to me like "No we aren't changing back, if you know coding then you or the community can probably fix it back though".
Keep hearing about how 'easy' it should be to mod and rectify, well if that's the case then it should be no dilemma for Beamdog to whip one up and have it prepared for the launch for us to use. Yes..? No..? Yes..?
I even suggested how much easier and intuitive it would be via workshop support and have been offering other suggestions in various other threads.
Clearly I'm missing something here if this isn't actually the case however.
Having that done as a mod (and I have no doubt there will be one) means beamdog does not have to guarantee it's functional in all aspects now and with future features. So yes, it is sane for them to say clear they are not going to do that (not to disrespect old players but to keep the development in one trunk, not branching), but giving the tools to do it at least (something we didn't have back in ye Goode olde days).
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48463/character-record-sheet-ui-feedback
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48317/i-do-not-like-the-simplification-of-character-details-in-inventory-ui
I welcome UI improvements, but the current beta UI is not "better."
The current implementation of the new functionality is rather typical for a beta or even a #.0 release ... there's room for optimization in all corners in layout, behaviour, bugs and style, but one can see where this can go when streamlined with feedback and time to optimize in 2.1 and further.
As for modding possibilities, the new UI is said to be improved. I haven't yet seen what this means exactly (I might have missed it), though at this point I'm fairly hopeful that great things could be done with the new UI system.
One of the think I don't like is that I don't know where thing are, I mean it take time to find out under what label they put stuff like reputation, lore et cetera, while in the old UI I knew were to find them instantly but like I said at the beginning this is one of those thing one need to get use to.
I agree with the comments that it doesn't have the BG feel to it but I hope it will change with the improvements.
It's why I just keep shaking my head at all these other posters who are stating their subjective opinions as though it were gospel or objective fact .
("Obviously the beta one's layout is functionally better, yadda yadda yadda").
When something that I originally beelined toward and was able to get information from within seconds now took me several minutes to find out where they've decided to jam (and to be honest here - was the catalyst for me creating an account here on these Beamdog forums in the first place and seek out to see if anyone else was as pissed off at the changes as me and if there was an option to opt-out) then yeah, I tend to consider that a bit of a step backward and change for the sake of arbitrary change, not for the better since it takes a very special type of unwanted change for me to take drastic steps such as that as opposed to gritting my teeth and rolling with the punches.
Hence my ongoing annoyance at the situation and the dev's nonchalant lack of caring or respect, plus that handwaving post in the FAQ and here which is even more infuriating (Which they haven't clarified or responded to my most recent post here of, so I can only assume what I posted here seeking clarification was indeed actually correct). So they're willing to arbitrarily take something away from us that I and many people were fine with for close to two decades, but aren't willing to give a suitable replacement or compromise for the affected parties despite going on about how easy it is to mod and stating 'Ya'll should be able to fix it back up' as a selling point and method used to try and alleviate the ongoing problem and divide this has clearly created.
You've pretty much re-iterated and hit the nail on the head regarding my ongoing annoyance, feeling of dismay and betrayal, and the reason why I kind of lost a chunk of respect for these guys and why I consider this random out-of-the-blue change confusing and causing more problems than it is solving in a nice summery.
And I doubt there would be anything to complain about since I haven't over the last ~17 years now - Assuming ofcourse it retained 1:1 functionality.
I like how I've been offering solutions and compromises and workarounds in every one of these threads like alternate .exe launchers, official workshop support, toggle options, pre-made mods such as the one the Devs alluded to in the FAQ (With the understanding that little or no support would need to be dedicated to this) etc. etc. yet people and mostly the devs keep shooting me down as though I'm just some ranting 'bad guy' here, which comes across as being completely unsympathetic to the plight of the the affected party.
Just 'Nope', 'Nope', 'No that won't work', 'Nah the devs would have to do this then', 'Nah the Devs aren't willing to do that either'...
Jesus christ.. That in itself is half the frustration I'm feeling and why it comes across as stubbornness and unwillingness to even consider us who are being affected from my point of view to be honest.
Like, why am I even bothering leaving feedback and offering ideas on the *feedback* forum.
Just trying to get a fix and solution and *OPTIONS* to this while it's still in Beta before all the inundation of complaints come in about the non-consensual and forced change once it goes live. Sorry for trying to help. F*** me right?
The new UI is not *that* bad. It just needs more work. I really prefer the current UI we have now (1.3). There are intresting ideas behind this new ui design, but imo the big issue for me is that it is sort of hiding plenty of intresting information from the player. At the end of day the player needs to know and understand the details to have most fun playing. Sooner or later he wants to understand how AC or ThaCo is calculated and then he would rather have this information visible all the time. Or atleast I would.
So if we kept the old version you'd be pleased and I would not be, but if we use the new version I'd be pleased and you would not be. The difference, however, is that in the second scenario you have the chance of actually being pleased as well once the old version is modded back in; in the first scenario I would not have that chance. QED it's better for Beamdog to keep the current version as it is likely to make the largest amount of people happy.
Man I can't actually remember which thread it was in now or if it was even this one (There's so damn many of these topics pertaining to the UI changes and controversy about it - which in its own right should be telling Beamdog something..but I digress..) but yeah I also said and suggested to just go with @00zim00's mockup design as the best solution and compromise a while ago.
Aesthetically it feels like Baldur's Gate, and functionally it is the best of both worlds of keeping the text wall while still having the ability to see Class/stats/etc. on the other side, while still optionally having the specific category subheading along the top. Win-Win.
Keep in mind this thread and poll was asking if *we* were beamdog what *we* would do. *I* answered unflinchingly that *I* would change it back, or at the very least provide options to my fanbase and players rather than unceremoniously yank something away to the annoyance of ~17 year veterans.
Being that *they* aren't going to do that however, what *they* should do is the aforementioned fan design mockup that blows their current beta UI out of the water to appease all parties.
I'm sure I've already said this, and this whole thing just snowballed out of proportion once again.