Some banters from Jaheira, Aerie, Viconia and Anomen are both romance banters and common banters.
If you romance one of those characters some of their comments and quests are delayed and fixed on the romances. Anomen's quest last longer to start for example.
Why not just leave it at: Mature content: Suggestive Themes? I mean, if you think gay sex is bad in a video game- then any sex should be just as warned for. Everybody knows you are doing it with Aerie... you even have a kid with her. As far as I know, you aren't married at the time, either.
I agree but if that's in reason of the underage issue, as i said i think nothing about it in fact, just raised the issue cos no one did before (apparently Xarovia touched the issue, but i didn't locate his post previous to me).
@sarevok57 you can CLUAConsole the Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity and then use it on you or Jaheira... or in Anomen, that would be hilarious (if at least he aknowledge the curse...).
You can then activate the romance via console with
i was heavily against the implementation of gay romances first because of my views on how the society in the medieval period of time saw sexuality in general and everything not in harmony with the religious powers perspectives. I was a bit narrowminded with that deep relationship to a sword and sorcery game like BG and our own history. But i think i got your peoples desire for it and that a game should be more open as we as a society in real life.
@NWN_babaYaga Exactly! It is very gratifying to see that although these threads can get quite tricky at times, people like you can keep an open enough mind to see why this so important. It is also worth noting that homosexuality existed throughout the Medieval period. A great many historians now accept Richard The Lionheart was most likely predominately homosexual, and whilst of course the church was against it. Recent medieval scholarship, has sought to play down the issue to say nothing of literary interpretations.
I have a friend whose gay. We sometimes have a Lan party just the two of us. Sometimes I play Charname sometimes she does. She has always wished there had been gay romances in BG, she hates that the game forces her to have a romance with a male character. When she herself doesn't like men in that way.
well, the problem continues for her, as only one of the male characters are bi, so no lesbian romance for her (unfortunally). She can play a male main char and date a female yet or CLUAConsole the girdle of masculinity/femininity to put in Anomen and get a romance and some laughts as a plus.
The devs probally gonna add a lesbian romance for BG II, to put things even.
I thought it was self explanatory, there is objection to same sex relationship of which you have brought up objections citing a morality element to the discussion. I was merely commenting that you're playing a game that allows murder, theft, deception, pre-marital sex, and further enquiring why a problem with one and not the others? My contention is if you can let all the others slide why not this?
I also note you didn't raise objections of relevancy at the time I initially posted a reply, but waited until now when you evidentially want to duck the question on grounds of relevancy. I am afraid my friend I am more than aware of what this discussion, both in terms of what has been said and also what has not.
If you don't want to engage any further in this debate you are more than welcome to say this is making you uncomfortable, saying how you feel is a perfectly valid response, this IS a tough topic for a great many people and I am sensitive to that, but please don't insult my intelligence by trying to avoid the point on relevancy grounds, and also don't insult your own by thinking it would work.
As I mentioned before, my not replying is due to having a life outside of these forums. When I am discussing something on a thread and someone doesn't not reply for a day, I assume that they are too busy to have checked recently. It would be nice if you did the same. You know what they say about people who assume... and you're assuming a lot right now.
It is also a typical tactic of people who are arguing about a specific thing to attempt to change the direction of a conversation, which is what you are actually attempting to do. Now, if you want to discuss those other issues you mentioned, go ahead and make some new threads.
This incendiary topic really needs to die....honestly. I like a good debate as much as anyone, but this topic has degenerated into something else. Agree to disagree and move along please.
I have a friend whose gay. We sometimes have a Lan party just the two of us. Sometimes I play Charname sometimes she does. She has always wished there had been gay romances in BG, she hates that the game forces her to have a romance with a male character. When she herself doesn't like men in that way.
I'd suggest to use a mod npc. Having become curious for gay romances because of this topic, I found Nathaniel as well as Faren. For lesbians, there's Sarah. Actually, it was quite difficult to find, as 'Baldur's Gate Gay Romance mod' as search-words, lead Google to display the various topics on this board for the first 5 or so pages.
I understand Sir_Carnifex for having a life beside the board, though I differ in opinion with him on gay romances. I myself feel more like playing BG right now, than discussing romances in it. And once I've completed some of the ongoing campaigns, I wanna experience what a gay romance is like and will try out Faren in a new campaign (for BGEE, I intend to romance Neera).
I thought it was self explanatory, there is objection to same sex relationship of which you have brought up objections citing a morality element to the discussion. I was merely commenting that you're playing a game that allows murder, theft, deception, pre-marital sex, and further enquiring why a problem with one and not the others? My contention is if you can let all the others slide why not this?
I also note you didn't raise objections of relevancy at the time I initially posted a reply, but waited until now when you evidentially want to duck the question on grounds of relevancy. I am afraid my friend I am more than aware of what this discussion, both in terms of what has been said and also what has not.
If you don't want to engage any further in this debate you are more than welcome to say this is making you uncomfortable, saying how you feel is a perfectly valid response, this IS a tough topic for a great many people and I am sensitive to that, but please don't insult my intelligence by trying to avoid the point on relevancy grounds, and also don't insult your own by thinking it would work.
As I mentioned before, my not replying is due to having a life outside of these forums. When I am discussing something on a thread and someone doesn't not reply for a day, I assume that they are too busy to have checked recently. It would be nice if you did the same. You know what they say about people who assume... and you're assuming a lot right now.
It is also a typical tactic of people who are arguing about a specific thing to attempt to change the direction of a conversation, which is what you are actually attempting to do. Now, if you want to discuss those other issues you mentioned, go ahead and make some new threads.
I have at no point had a problem with the time it takes for you to reply, I have only commented on your attempts to "dodge" answering my question. I'm afraid it is you making assumptions, I suspect in another attempt to avoid addressing my point.
Getting back to that point you object to homosexuality appearing in the game on moral grounds, I am merely pointing out the double standard here by referencing other immoral acts a player can embark on during the course of the game, and I am not attempting to get into an involved debate about the whys and wherefores of those acts, I am merely asking the question as to why they get a free pass to inclusion in the game, and why homosexuality does not?
Well, I really hate to see that people are still arguing about gay romances in games after all this time. I said my piece about my own opinion early in this thread.
It seems as though we gay people and gay sympathizers ought to learn not to start these kinds of threads in gaming forums, because they always turn into, at best, discussions about homosexuality in general, and, at worst, horrible flame wars, fights, and vitriolic arguments.
Also, passionate back-and-forth "discussions" (really, they're usually fights) about homosexuality, do not belong in gaming forums. People come here to talk about games, not to fight about what is, at its base, both a religious and a political discussion (really, fight).
I have found several very easy solutions for gay me to enjoy romances with male npc's in games. One, I can play female. I can just pretend that, in whatever gaming fantasy world I have been transported to, that I have found myself involuntarily or otherwise transformed into a female; which, wouldn't be such a terrible thing for me, since I like men as potential mating partners. And then, I can be either a drag-queenesque type she-male, or, I can be a mannish woman (examples abound - Amy Farah Fowler on Big Bang Theory comes first to mind).
In my core psyche, in my soul, in my very being, I am a male who likes men. I can't help this or do anything about it to change it. I can be a gay Christian male, who either finds an expression of Christianity that accepts gay men, or, who embraces repression of my gayness and accepts celibacy, because homosexual sex is a sin in all its forms, according to many or even most forms of institutional Christianity. Or, I can become an atheist, denying the existence of any gods whatsoever due to lack of evidence. Or, I can convert to some eastern, "New Age" religious belief that embraces all forms of human sexuality. Or, I can become a miserable liar about myself to all the world, pretending to either be attracted to women or to have been "changed" by one of the many bogus religious "gay cures", and then marry an equally deluded woman and have a painful and miserable life, making her just as miserable I would be. Sigh, such emotional pain and suffering are caused by religious people upon gay people.
However, none of this has one iota of any relevance whatsoever to computer video games! I mean, come on, why in the world are we discussing this on a freaking Baldur's Gate forum?
Game developers are never going to make profits based on pandering in any way to minority groups, as compassionate and enlightened as they might be to do so. All "gay" romances in games have only been included up to now in service to political correctness as relevant to our times, and whatever ones have been written, have only been written as very, very subtle ways for gay or bisexual gamers to feel like they can play the romances in those games while being true to themselves.
I mean, really, just give me well-written romances with male npc's. I will do what I need to enjoy them, or some modder will do something to make it easier for me to enjoy them. I've always been very fond of Anomen. He probably appeals more as a romance interest for gay men than to straight women anyway.
And as for discussions of homosexuality in gaming forums, please, could we just stop? It's not the place for it.
"...Please, people, can't we all just get along?..." Rodney King, minority victim of hate crime inflicted by police officers, 1990's California riots
@Shandyr, wow, I hardly know what to say. The world needs more of such insightful and compassionate people as you. Whether threads like this one can actually make the world better for future generations of young gay people, I'm not sure, but the examples you cite of the handful of posters who have admitted that they changed their attitudes toward gay gamers, however slightly that might have been, and however few in number they may be, are certainly evidence that hope for a better humanity of the future may be warranted.
I am so glad that there are people like you in the world, my friend. Without such people, I don't know if I would have ever survived my fundamentalist Christian youth. I certainly went crazy enough times (mental illness), and certainly have wished for death enough times. I actually tried to commit suicide once, about twenty years ago, by taking a whole bottle of muscle relaxers. Turns out, that doesn't work well for a suicide attempt, (I just woke up the next morning, none the worse for wear after 20 pills), but then, I don't think I really wanted to do it. The emotional pain was quite real, however. Not because I was gay, but just because of the pain I was made to feel by Christian people, and also, and surprisingly, by other gay people.
Kinda late to this discussion, but I am all for gay romances being added!
Your name reminds me of a biology quiz I wrote many years in highschool (well, not that long ago). I totally wrote down Medusa Oblongata in answering one of the questions. I look back at my answer fondly, and the best part is I think my teacher still gave me 1/2 a mark for it.
I have nothing to say about the substance of this discussion, only wanted to share an irrelevant story.
I have nothing against gay romances, as long as they're subtle and not handled like in Dragon Age 2, where all of the characters where magically made bisexual.
@State_Lemming: Do you mean the elven characters in both Origins and DA 2? If so, when taken the DLCs out of consideration (I don't think Velanna in Awkaenings would be a bisexual character, but I can't be sure), you are indeed right. But then ALL companions in DA 2 were bisexual, not just the elves.
I have nothing against gay romances, as long as they're subtle and not handled like in Dragon Age 2, where all of the characters where magically made bisexual.
Why do you assume everyone to be "magically" heterosexual? I would have some understanding for this argument had the game taken place in our world, but it does not.
It seems as though we gay people and gay sympathizers ought to learn not to start these kinds of threads in gaming forums, because they always turn into, at best, discussions about homosexuality in general, and, at worst, horrible flame wars, fights, and vitriolic arguments.
Also, passionate back-and-forth "discussions" (really, they're usually fights) about homosexuality, do not belong in gaming forums. People come here to talk about games, not to fight about what is, at its base, both a religious and a political discussion (really, fight).
Game developers are never going to make profits based on pandering in any way to minority groups, as compassionate and enlightened as they might be to do so.
I'm very surprised to hear you say this Belgar.
Discussions of homosexuality DO belong in game forums... and discussion boards and chat rooms and anywhere else people are. Do you know why? Because some people are gay and people should be able to discuss themselves. Should we never talk about women, because some don't like them? Should we never discuss Muslims, or atheists, or Jews, or blacks, or Mexicans, or whomever because some people don't like them?? If people don't like a subject, nothing is making them participate. If people don't like others, nothing is stopping them from leaving.
It's a simple matter Belgar. If A doesn't like B, it's not up to be B to leave, B to remain silent, or B to watch what they say. B is not the problem, A is. It's up to A to remain silent, prepare for an argument, or leave.
I understand that the anger, vitriol and venom with which people speak on this subject is distressing and can hurt. I know that VERY well. That doesn't mean the discussions shouldn't be had. No war is without injury, and it's a war that needs to be fought. People won't stop oppressing others until those people rise up to stop the oppression. If they meekly remain silent and take their abuse, things will never change. Things MUST change. Things are better now for minorities in the US than they were before, and that's because of people fighting back, including discussions of "sensitive" topics.
You ask why we discuss homosexuality in a game? Why do we have heterosexuality in a game? Why the hell is one okay and one verboten? Where are the countless threads of people complaining about the hetero content? Why aren't heteros yelling at the devs to remove the hetero content because it "doesn't belong in a game"? Sex is part of life, it exists. Some people are hetero, some are bi, some are gay. If some have a problem with that, they're the ones who need to deal with it. It's not up to everybody else to pander and cater to the biases and prejudices of some.
As for companies making money on minorities, I'm guessing you don't know much about business or marketing. Businesses need to know what their market is, to advertise successfully. The better they can advertise their product to appeal to more consumers, the bigger their profits.
1) Know your market 2) Broaden your market 3) Profit
Businesses profit by inclusion, not exclusion. It's very, very hard to get people to like you; it's very, very easy to get people to dislike you. Bad reviews spread much faster and much farther, and are remembered much longer, than good reviews.
I understand it's painful for you... none of us are without scars. But problems won't go away by meekly sitting on the sidelines, remaining silent.
Comments
If you romance one of those characters some of their comments and quests are delayed and fixed on the romances. Anomen's quest last longer to start for example.
@sarevok57 you can CLUAConsole the Girdle of Masculinity/Feminity and then use it on you or Jaheira... or in Anomen, that would be hilarious (if at least he aknowledge the curse...).
You can then activate the romance via console with
CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("JaheiraRomanceActive","Global",1)
But probally you gonna get more fun by put the girdle in Anomen.
The devs probally gonna add a lesbian romance for BG II, to put things even.
It is also a typical tactic of people who are arguing about a specific thing to attempt to change the direction of a conversation, which is what you are actually attempting to do. Now, if you want to discuss those other issues you mentioned, go ahead and make some new threads.
Here they're to be found:
for the gals:
http://www.gibberlings3.net/sarah/
for the guys:
http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/nathaniel
http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/faren
I understand Sir_Carnifex for having a life beside the board, though I differ in opinion with him on gay romances. I myself feel more like playing BG right now, than discussing romances in it. And once I've completed some of the ongoing campaigns, I wanna experience what a gay romance is like and will try out Faren in a new campaign (for BGEE, I intend to romance Neera).
Getting back to that point you object to homosexuality appearing in the game on moral grounds, I am merely pointing out the double standard here by referencing other immoral acts a player can embark on during the course of the game, and I am not attempting to get into an involved debate about the whys and wherefores of those acts, I am merely asking the question as to why they get a free pass to inclusion in the game, and why homosexuality does not?
It seems as though we gay people and gay sympathizers ought to learn not to start these kinds of threads in gaming forums, because they always turn into, at best, discussions about homosexuality in general, and, at worst, horrible flame wars, fights, and vitriolic arguments.
Also, passionate back-and-forth "discussions" (really, they're usually fights) about homosexuality, do not belong in gaming forums. People come here to talk about games, not to fight about what is, at its base, both a religious and a political discussion (really, fight).
I have found several very easy solutions for gay me to enjoy romances with male npc's in games. One, I can play female. I can just pretend that, in whatever gaming fantasy world I have been transported to, that I have found myself involuntarily or otherwise transformed into a female; which, wouldn't be such a terrible thing for me, since I like men as potential mating partners. And then, I can be either a drag-queenesque type she-male, or, I can be a mannish woman (examples abound - Amy Farah Fowler on Big Bang Theory comes first to mind).
In my core psyche, in my soul, in my very being, I am a male who likes men. I can't help this or do anything about it to change it. I can be a gay Christian male, who either finds an expression of Christianity that accepts gay men, or, who embraces repression of my gayness and accepts celibacy, because homosexual sex is a sin in all its forms, according to many or even most forms of institutional Christianity. Or, I can become an atheist, denying the existence of any gods whatsoever due to lack of evidence. Or, I can convert to some eastern, "New Age" religious belief that embraces all forms of human sexuality. Or, I can become a miserable liar about myself to all the world, pretending to either be attracted to women or to have been "changed" by one of the many bogus religious "gay cures", and then marry an equally deluded woman and have a painful and miserable life, making her just as miserable I would be. Sigh, such emotional pain and suffering are caused by religious people upon gay people.
However, none of this has one iota of any relevance whatsoever to computer video games! I mean, come on, why in the world are we discussing this on a freaking Baldur's Gate forum?
Game developers are never going to make profits based on pandering in any way to minority groups, as compassionate and enlightened as they might be to do so. All "gay" romances in games have only been included up to now in service to political correctness as relevant to our times, and whatever ones have been written, have only been written as very, very subtle ways for gay or bisexual gamers to feel like they can play the romances in those games while being true to themselves.
I mean, really, just give me well-written romances with male npc's. I will do what I need to enjoy them, or some modder will do something to make it easier for me to enjoy them. I've always been very fond of Anomen. He probably appeals more as a romance interest for gay men than to straight women anyway.
And as for discussions of homosexuality in gaming forums, please, could we just stop? It's not the place for it.
"...Please, people, can't we all just get along?..." Rodney King, minority victim of hate crime inflicted by police officers, 1990's California riots
I am so glad that there are people like you in the world, my friend. Without such people, I don't know if I would have ever survived my fundamentalist Christian youth. I certainly went crazy enough times (mental illness), and certainly have wished for death enough times. I actually tried to commit suicide once, about twenty years ago, by taking a whole bottle of muscle relaxers. Turns out, that doesn't work well for a suicide attempt, (I just woke up the next morning, none the worse for wear after 20 pills), but then, I don't think I really wanted to do it. The emotional pain was quite real, however. Not because I was gay, but just because of the pain I was made to feel by Christian people, and also, and surprisingly, by other gay people.
I have nothing to say about the substance of this discussion, only wanted to share an irrelevant story.
Now that you mention it every elf so far has been bisexual.
I didn't think of Velanna though, but since she isn't a love interest I won't count her.
(danish saying)
Your post is heteronormative and not thought through.
Discussions of homosexuality DO belong in game forums... and discussion boards and chat rooms and anywhere else people are. Do you know why? Because some people are gay and people should be able to discuss themselves. Should we never talk about women, because some don't like them? Should we never discuss Muslims, or atheists, or Jews, or blacks, or Mexicans, or whomever because some people don't like them?? If people don't like a subject, nothing is making them participate. If people don't like others, nothing is stopping them from leaving.
It's a simple matter Belgar. If A doesn't like B, it's not up to be B to leave, B to remain silent, or B to watch what they say. B is not the problem, A is. It's up to A to remain silent, prepare for an argument, or leave.
I understand that the anger, vitriol and venom with which people speak on this subject is distressing and can hurt. I know that VERY well. That doesn't mean the discussions shouldn't be had. No war is without injury, and it's a war that needs to be fought. People won't stop oppressing others until those people rise up to stop the oppression. If they meekly remain silent and take their abuse, things will never change. Things MUST change. Things are better now for minorities in the US than they were before, and that's because of people fighting back, including discussions of "sensitive" topics.
You ask why we discuss homosexuality in a game? Why do we have heterosexuality in a game? Why the hell is one okay and one verboten? Where are the countless threads of people complaining about the hetero content? Why aren't heteros yelling at the devs to remove the hetero content because it "doesn't belong in a game"? Sex is part of life, it exists. Some people are hetero, some are bi, some are gay. If some have a problem with that, they're the ones who need to deal with it. It's not up to everybody else to pander and cater to the biases and prejudices of some.
As for companies making money on minorities, I'm guessing you don't know much about business or marketing. Businesses need to know what their market is, to advertise successfully. The better they can advertise their product to appeal to more consumers, the bigger their profits.
1) Know your market
2) Broaden your market
3) Profit
Businesses profit by inclusion, not exclusion. It's very, very hard to get people to like you; it's very, very easy to get people to dislike you. Bad reviews spread much faster and much farther, and are remembered much longer, than good reviews.
I understand it's painful for you... none of us are without scars. But problems won't go away by meekly sitting on the sidelines, remaining silent.