@Xavioria Maybe they could add an extra sliding scale in the game play options screen for various sexual preferences: from "all," hetero-, homo-, and bi-sexual, to "off." That would make everyone happy--well, except for the people who want to control others' choices.
Only problem with that is that so far... If you play a woman character, if you select the option lesbian... well you jsut turned off the rommance entirelly because there is no lesbian relationship in the game at the moment
@Talvrae I guess I should have been more specific. The toggle would be for what types of romances you want to be available in the game, not the player's own sexual orientation.
But even more than that... as many people have said before, Sexuality is part of what makes someone who they are, which I believe up to a certain extent. Many believe things are as clear cut as "straight" or "gay" or Bisexual" which i DON'T believe from personal experience, but again, I'm deviating...
To the point @Mortianna has said, it's a good idea on paper, but in depth, a character such as Rasaad for instance being turned from bisexual to straight just from a slider in game is silly and IMO should change the character in question, even if it's only slightly. Lastly, this idea WOULD actually make a few people happy, and a few angry (can't please them all) but this is a RIDICULOUS waste of time where I would prefer the efforts that Beamdog are putting into the game is more for content, bug fixing, and packaging, as opposed to shifting around a few commas.
@Mortianna Oh i understood well no worry on that, it's simply that slider idea is a good one, but to work it should have to satisfy all the option in it and it this case, if someone who don,t know there is no lesbian option select that his character is lesbian just shot themselves a bit in the foot and completely cut the rommance option, it give an illusion that that content exist while it don't
@Xavioria Agreed. Although I wasn't implying that the romances themselves would be altered to fit the sexual preference one's chooses. The non-hetero romances just wouldn't be available if you pick "hetero" or "off." I see sexuality as a sliding scale and not as a three distinct categories (or four, if you count asexual).
@Xavioria Human sexuality is a continuum for most people, running from 0 (the most heterosexual of heterosexual people) to 6 (the most homosexual of homosexuals). I.e. only attracted to opposite sex/same sex. And then every number in between, as well as outliers like asexuals. Most people would consider anything between 2 and 4 to be "Bisexual", as some bisexuals are attracted more to one sex than another, but not enough to consider themselves Hetero or Homosexual and different flavors like multiple marriage to either sex, Polyamory and so on. And when I say multiple marriage, I am not talking about the "1 man, multiple women" or vice versa, but a marriage where you might have four women and five men all married to each other. (only in speculative fiction, but hey, we can dream).
Even people who are otherwise straight can have small inclinations or be attracted to someone of the same sex. When I was younger, I watched a movie with an older actress with a large pair of breasts, and I thought to myself. "Wow, I'd like to rest my head there." And aside from that one time, I have never had another thought like that. On the spectrum, I'm a 1.
Well, I'm feminine (as you can see by my picture right here) and have been hit on by guys claiming to be straight, and have actually backed off once they knew I was male. Frankly, it makes me wonder if sexuality has more grey in it than many think.
It comes to question of what attracts people. Is it just "women" that men are attracted to, or is it "femininity?" The same question can be put to females as well... but for some reason, male homosexuality is more in line with the back and fourth as opposed to female homosexuality. Although purists will argue that both is wrong, so I think that both belong here.
EDIT: @LadyRhian well there is also the "polysexuals" and "pansexuals" to think about as well. Would either of them fit on your scale? Also there's the wonder of the alternate genders (such as shemales or transgendered) that you have to add to the mix as well. Suddenly that scale becomes more of a web, and things get ridiculous and confusing. I remember FFTA2 where there was this gender confused Bangaa. It really put a feather in my cap to see that in a video game
@Xavioria, About the fact you raised it before i truly didn't found any reference to this issue but maybe i just didn't look well on the previous posts, but i didn't found any discussion on this issue.
Arguments aren't offensive the intentions behind them that are, i stated it explicity form a neutral position, the offense is in your eyes and if you say that i can't speak of something because it can be offensive, well sorry but with all due respect, that's your problem.
What i raised is an valid thematic, you and others position in gay relations as equal to straight relations, i will not enter the merit of this affirmative but would be stupid to not recognize that other people think different, otherwise all the prejudice existence disussion falls on the ground.
I will not enter the merit here of their reasons to think that a homo relation is sinful, wrong, disease, abohent... i will not evaluate those ways of think as right or wrong in the same way that i don't evaluate the equality of gay and straight as right or wrong.
But the question still persist, exist people that think that way, some of they have childrens and they're entitled to raise their childrens by whichever moral standart rules their lifes. So my statement as you quoted is:
"No one can force his/her opinion on another in how to raise the childrens."
As many people said before, that we can't compare pedophilia with gay relations in reason of a underage don't have all his mental capacities evolved to truly choose something, i raise that same points then and i ask:
1 -Can we say to a children if you don't want don't use, or avoid the NPC, or choose to refuse the romance when asked?
2 - To whom falls the duty of restrict the content for the children?
2.1. To the family only, so it's the parents duty to avoid his/her children to access gay content if they don't want? By the way, if not announced how can the family know the existence of gay content to make a control over it?
2.2. To the company, that should have a parentage control in the option screen of the game, be it made by whichever way they prefer most?
2.3. To both?
"MY" issues about gay romances are "only" related of "natural/unnatural" concept. They already ended. As @LadyRhian stated, when i raised this issue, i was arguing for the sake of argue only, but as you raised in quote my previous post and pointed it as
"I would just like to say that this argument is silly and also a small bit offensive... "
i only ask for answers to those questions above. I don't want agreement cos it's impossible to agree with me atm, as i'm in a neutral positios making only questions, and my only statement was that we can't force someone to raise a children by our standarts (and this is an absolute truth). As Ravel says in PS:T i want your answer, not a "right" answer.
@Xavioria I can only say for myself, but I am attracted to a spectrum of guys as well, everything from prettyboys to very masculine men. (I'd call young Brad Pitt a prettyboy. I am not attracted to the ultra-young guys, I prefer my men to be wine, not freshly-stomped grape juice. middle to late 20's at the very least.)
Yeah, and I consider those, and the other poly I mentioned "Polyamorous" to be outliers. Do they go after only other men, or both other men and women. For Asexuals, they are really off the scale, because as far as I understand it, they have no sexual feelings on their own. They feel love, but not lust. And sometimes, if they love someone enough, they will be willing to "do" sex, but it's an extremely occasional thing even if it does happen. Not being asexual myself, I don't completely get it, but I understand enough to not consider them part of the normal continuum. Shemales and transgendered is more about biology and what gender you consider or feel yourself to be rather than who you are attracted to. I know someone who is a post-operative male to female transsexual. She spent over half a million dollars in the quest to change her body from what she was to who she felt herself to be. But she's still attracted to women. And to people who see her the way she is now, that makes her a lesbian. And how do you classify such a thing? Do you call her a male because her body still has XY Chromosomes instead of XX, or do you rely on outward appearance and say she's just a lesbian? (And if anyone thinks she got that money easily, no. She saved for over 10 years to get the money needed to fly to Holland and have the surgery. Not to mention the Electrolysis, Psychiatric Therapy (five years of it before they would give her leave to have the surgery), and the stigma from people who didn't understand what she was going through. She's an incredibly brave woman, and I am proud to know her.
I agree with you. and yes there is, but i have no idea where to find it. But i can give you another witness that it was said that one of the npc's will be romanced by both sex's and then in the reddit interview it was revealed that it would NOT be Neera, so one of the two male npc's is Bi, but they refuse to say which one.
Ok, thanks ^_^ Really glad they said it wasn't Neera. No offense to any real lesbians out there but I get kinda sick of "gay" romances that are really just two girls getting it on for the straight guy players.
And maybe I was a bit wrong lumping this topic in with all the other ones I've seen. I went back and read some of it (originally just skipped it when it turned into a debate) and for the most part people have been mature about it. Some opinions that I, um, disagree with but mostly politeish, so congratulations on that b^_^ It's gonna be sad if this forum turns to crap after the game is released like a lot of other forums tend to do.
@Kamuizin I am not saying I am offended, I just wanted to let you know that your question can be seen that way. I am not offended personally, I understood your question, because I know that people think that it can somehow corrupt their children. However, perhaps my post was useless if your stance at the moment is, in actuality, just neutral curiosity.
However, it seems that you did not fully understand my post, or just chose not to read it. I shall elaborate, please let me know if you are confused.
Firstly: THE GAME in and of itself is rated T FOR TEEN! This shows the parents what types of categories their children will be playing. It is also noted in these ratings, the type of content that is within the game. I cannot be sure on the top of my head, but I believe it says Fantasy violence, and Adult situations, or something of that nature.
Secondly: I was TRYING to point out the hypocricy and silliness of your comment, BECAUSE of the fact there are more violent themes within this game, which parents are warned about. IF there are parents that are ONLY worried about slight homosexual themes, and NOT the large amount of VIOLENCE, and MURDER, and THEIVERY that is EVER present within this game, then please point them out, as I do not see how a parent doesn't care about those things, and is only worried about seeing text that can be deciphered as being homosexual
Thirdly: I was also loosley trying to show how a parent might buy something for a child who does not match the ESRB rating or go above it, yet complains about what their child is playing. It is part of the JOB of a parent to monitor their children if there are things that they don't think their child is ready to be influenced by. To place blame on the game makers is just irresponisible, because basically what they are implying is that they use such games and sitcoms as babysitters.
SO, here is your answer to the "underage" question. If this does not satisfy, please, instead of ignoring half the comment, please let me know what I said that you did not understand.
@Shandyr Well, to be anecdotal. I've been (physically) attracted to girls I don't like, something I think of a programmed desire to reproduce even if it doesn't feel like that and can easily be circumvented!
I can certainly see advantages in being gay; I'm sure we've all heard "bro's before ho's," call it misogyny, call it a preference for male company. What could anyone have against both intellectual and physical fulfilment?
edit- I'm not saying that males give intellectual fulfilment! just that there are a lot of "straight" guys who prefer male company. I'd say that was individual taste.
(disclaimer - I'm not an arsehole, I love my girlfriend and she comes before any "bro"
@Xavioria don't believe for a moment that i ignored your comments, i read all of them, the fact i disagree with something doesn't mean lack of knowledge of what you have stated, means only that i personally don't agree only.
I do not question your answer, after all in the end of my post i asked for your answer, not a right/wrong answer. I have my personal opinions but i want to explore what other people think on this.
So about the parents issue from your answer i see you position yourself in the 2.2 possibility i made, that the content control falls both on the parents and the company shouder. But specific you put that the game classify is more than enough to resume the content control for the company.
So as you didn't answered my first question and as you opened this possibility to me when you told:
"SO, here is your answer to the "underage" question. If this does not satisfy, please, instead of ignoring half the comment, please let me know what I said that you did not understand. "
i ask again:
1 -Can we say to a children if you don't want don't use, or avoid the NPC, or choose to refuse the romance when asked?
And to understand better the answer that you already gave, among violence, murder and thievery that are normally annouced on the game cover, shoud homossexuality be announced on the game cover or not? (example: straight and gay romances as optional content)
Well you left that feeling added by the next post comment but whatever. Be free to answer my quotes, i can't forbid neither i would anyone of post to express themselfs. Maybe i prejudiced your last post as a joke where existed none, it's possible.
By the way if that was a question to me, yes, in my personal feelings a game shoud annouce romance content in the game if they exist, and straight, gay, bi (and/or) could be a more specific description. I see no problem in this.
You don't think that has the added effect of segregating "alternate sexuality" games from "straight-only" games?
If I write a book, I shouldn't have to put on the cover, "Warning: the main character happens to be bisexual, even though that's not what the book is about." Just like if I write a book I shouldn't have to put on the cover, "Warning: the main character happens to have brown hair."
If a game has sexual content, the rating will show that. Same thing with "Suggestive themes". If that's not enough for a parent to make the decision about whether the game is appropriate for their child--and if the parents don't read the reviews (which usually make at least some remarks pertaining to this exact thing if it's present in the game)--then maybe the parent shouldn't be letting their child play any games.
@GueulEclator actually makes an excellent point, though. @Tanthalas, can we move this thread to Off Topic? Maybe with an amended title: "Gay Romance Options in Video Games"?
The game contains romance; I doubt most families would read romantic fiction to one another regardless of where it lay on on the fruitometer. It's still a great story, and a great game!
@Shandyr if it's not about video games anymore, then it's definitely off topic. Other threads can be merged over there if they appear, but if we're not talking about video games, it really doesn't belong in General.
@Jalily The standard course of action is to link to the proper thread, and then call @Tanthalas to merge or delete them (usually merge).
The "game contain romance relations" isn't something so hard to exist, an specific description doesn't appear problematic either, well whatever... the discussion now appears to be to turn this thread off topic or no, just gonna observe this one.
i think my character is having a romance with jaheria and my character is a female, although i've been playing with no sounds so i cant tell if the romance music is on, but jaheria is usually a tricky character because she has tons of harper quest dealio, and i think gay romances would be allright, although it would be quite odd how the aerie romance would work out myes?
Comments
To the point @Mortianna has said, it's a good idea on paper, but in depth, a character such as Rasaad for instance being turned from bisexual to straight just from a slider in game is silly and IMO should change the character in question, even if it's only slightly. Lastly, this idea WOULD actually make a few people happy, and a few angry (can't please them all) but this is a RIDICULOUS waste of time where I would prefer the efforts that Beamdog are putting into the game is more for content, bug fixing, and packaging, as opposed to shifting around a few commas.
Even people who are otherwise straight can have small inclinations or be attracted to someone of the same sex. When I was younger, I watched a movie with an older actress with a large pair of breasts, and I thought to myself. "Wow, I'd like to rest my head there." And aside from that one time, I have never had another thought like that. On the spectrum, I'm a 1.
It comes to question of what attracts people. Is it just "women" that men are attracted to, or is it "femininity?" The same question can be put to females as well... but for some reason, male homosexuality is more in line with the back and fourth as opposed to female homosexuality. Although purists will argue that both is wrong, so I think that both belong here.
EDIT: @LadyRhian well there is also the "polysexuals" and "pansexuals" to think about as well. Would either of them fit on your scale? Also there's the wonder of the alternate genders (such as shemales or transgendered) that you have to add to the mix as well. Suddenly that scale becomes more of a web, and things get ridiculous and confusing. I remember FFTA2 where there was this gender confused Bangaa. It really put a feather in my cap to see that in a video game
Arguments aren't offensive the intentions behind them that are, i stated it explicity form a neutral position, the offense is in your eyes and if you say that i can't speak of something because it can be offensive, well sorry but with all due respect, that's your problem.
What i raised is an valid thematic, you and others position in gay relations as equal to straight relations, i will not enter the merit of this affirmative but would be stupid to not recognize that other people think different, otherwise all the prejudice existence disussion falls on the ground.
I will not enter the merit here of their reasons to think that a homo relation is sinful, wrong, disease, abohent... i will not evaluate those ways of think as right or wrong in the same way that i don't evaluate the equality of gay and straight as right or wrong.
But the question still persist, exist people that think that way, some of they have childrens and they're entitled to raise their childrens by whichever moral standart rules their lifes. So my statement as you quoted is:
"No one can force his/her opinion on another in how to raise the childrens."
As many people said before, that we can't compare pedophilia with gay relations in reason of a underage don't have all his mental capacities evolved to truly choose something, i raise that same points then and i ask:
1 -Can we say to a children if you don't want don't use, or avoid the NPC, or choose to refuse the romance when asked?
2 - To whom falls the duty of restrict the content for the children?
2.1. To the family only, so it's the parents duty to avoid his/her children to access gay content if they don't want? By the way, if not announced how can the family know the existence of gay content to make a control over it?
2.2. To the company, that should have a parentage control in the option screen of the game, be it made by whichever way they prefer most?
2.3. To both?
"MY" issues about gay romances are "only" related of "natural/unnatural" concept. They already ended. As @LadyRhian stated, when i raised this issue, i was arguing for the sake of argue only, but as you raised in quote my previous post and pointed it as
"I would just like to say that this argument is silly and also a small bit offensive... "
i only ask for answers to those questions above. I don't want agreement cos it's impossible to agree with me atm, as i'm in a neutral positios making only questions, and my only statement was that we can't force someone to raise a children by our standarts (and this is an absolute truth). As Ravel says in PS:T i want your answer, not a "right" answer.
Yeah, and I consider those, and the other poly I mentioned "Polyamorous" to be outliers. Do they go after only other men, or both other men and women. For Asexuals, they are really off the scale, because as far as I understand it, they have no sexual feelings on their own. They feel love, but not lust. And sometimes, if they love someone enough, they will be willing to "do" sex, but it's an extremely occasional thing even if it does happen. Not being asexual myself, I don't completely get it, but I understand enough to not consider them part of the normal continuum. Shemales and transgendered is more about biology and what gender you consider or feel yourself to be rather than who you are attracted to. I know someone who is a post-operative male to female transsexual. She spent over half a million dollars in the quest to change her body from what she was to who she felt herself to be. But she's still attracted to women. And to people who see her the way she is now, that makes her a lesbian. And how do you classify such a thing? Do you call her a male because her body still has XY Chromosomes instead of XX, or do you rely on outward appearance and say she's just a lesbian? (And if anyone thinks she got that money easily, no. She saved for over 10 years to get the money needed to fly to Holland and have the surgery. Not to mention the Electrolysis, Psychiatric Therapy (five years of it before they would give her leave to have the surgery), and the stigma from people who didn't understand what she was going through. She's an incredibly brave woman, and I am proud to know her.
And maybe I was a bit wrong lumping this topic in with all the other ones I've seen. I went back and read some of it (originally just skipped it when it turned into a debate) and for the most part people have been mature about it. Some opinions that I, um, disagree with but mostly politeish, so congratulations on that b^_^ It's gonna be sad if this forum turns to crap after the game is released like a lot of other forums tend to do.
However, it seems that you did not fully understand my post, or just chose not to read it. I shall elaborate, please let me know if you are confused.
Firstly: THE GAME in and of itself is rated T FOR TEEN! This shows the parents what types of categories their children will be playing. It is also noted in these ratings, the type of content that is within the game. I cannot be sure on the top of my head, but I believe it says Fantasy violence, and Adult situations, or something of that nature.
Secondly: I was TRYING to point out the hypocricy and silliness of your comment, BECAUSE of the fact there are more violent themes within this game, which parents are warned about. IF there are parents that are ONLY worried about slight homosexual themes, and NOT the large amount of VIOLENCE, and MURDER, and THEIVERY that is EVER present within this game, then please point them out, as I do not see how a parent doesn't care about those things, and is only worried about seeing text that can be deciphered as being homosexual
Thirdly: I was also loosley trying to show how a parent might buy something for a child who does not match the ESRB rating or go above it, yet complains about what their child is playing. It is part of the JOB of a parent to monitor their children if there are things that they don't think their child is ready to be influenced by. To place blame on the game makers is just irresponisible, because basically what they are implying is that they use such games and sitcoms as babysitters.
SO, here is your answer to the "underage" question. If this does not satisfy, please, instead of ignoring half the comment, please let me know what I said that you did not understand.
I can certainly see advantages in being gay; I'm sure we've all heard "bro's before ho's," call it misogyny, call it a preference for male company. What could anyone have against both intellectual and physical fulfilment?
edit- I'm not saying that males give intellectual fulfilment! just that there are a lot of "straight" guys who prefer male company. I'd say that was individual taste.
(disclaimer - I'm not an arsehole, I love my girlfriend and she comes before any "bro"
I do not question your answer, after all in the end of my post i asked for your answer, not a right/wrong answer. I have my personal opinions but i want to explore what other people think on this.
So about the parents issue from your answer i see you position yourself in the 2.2 possibility i made, that the content control falls both on the parents and the company shouder. But specific you put that the game classify is more than enough to resume the content control for the company.
So as you didn't answered my first question and as you opened this possibility to me when you told:
"SO, here is your answer to the "underage" question. If this does not satisfy, please, instead of ignoring half the comment, please let me know what I said that you did not understand. "
i ask again:
1 -Can we say to a children if you don't want don't use, or avoid the NPC, or choose to refuse the romance when asked?
And to understand better the answer that you already gave, among violence, murder and thievery that are normally annouced on the game cover, shoud homossexuality be announced on the game cover or not? (example: straight and gay romances as optional content)
Can you remind me why you are playing BG? For the action/intense story/exploration/strategic challenge Or for a sex reference in a dialogue box?
By the way if that was a question to me, yes, in my personal feelings a game shoud annouce romance content in the game if they exist, and straight, gay, bi (and/or) could be a more specific description. I see no problem in this.
If I write a book, I shouldn't have to put on the cover, "Warning: the main character happens to be bisexual, even though that's not what the book is about." Just like if I write a book I shouldn't have to put on the cover, "Warning: the main character happens to have brown hair."
If a game has sexual content, the rating will show that. Same thing with "Suggestive themes". If that's not enough for a parent to make the decision about whether the game is appropriate for their child--and if the parents don't read the reviews (which usually make at least some remarks pertaining to this exact thing if it's present in the game)--then maybe the parent shouldn't be letting their child play any games.
@GueulEclator actually makes an excellent point, though. @Tanthalas, can we move this thread to Off Topic? Maybe with an amended title: "Gay Romance Options in Video Games"?
@Jalily The standard course of action is to link to the proper thread, and then call @Tanthalas to merge or delete them (usually merge).