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Why did Beamdog refrain from creating banters between joinable NPCs in BG/2EE?

AKrugBierAKrugBier Member Posts: 110
edited March 2016 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
It just feels weird that they revised the whole game but completely forgot about the silent NPCs.

Is there any official reason why they thought it was not necessary to update the NPCs in BGEE?
Post edited by AKrugBier on

Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Contract Limitations

    They couldn't add anything new to old characters unless it revolved around new content.
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    AKrugBier said:

    It just feels weird that they revised the whole game but completely forgot about the silent NPCs.

    Is there any official reason why they thought it was not necessary to update the NPCs in BGEE?

    What I was really hoping for was the Enhanced Edition NPCs to have all of the same sorts of banters that the original game NPCs have. Like when you get a reputation change for example, the Enhanced Edition NPCs say nothing while the original game NPCs comment on it. Stuff like that.

    It would have been cool to get Jim Cummings and Jason Marsden back to voice Minsc and Ajantis for their lines in relation to the new content in the game, such as in the tutorial Beamdog added or with the different interactions they have with the new NPCs. Minsc I've had interact with Neera a few times while I talked to her, and Ajantis doesn't get along with Dorn (as well as Shar-Teel from what I've heard).
  • AKrugBierAKrugBier Member Posts: 110
    mashedtaters said:

    The BGNPC project adds banter to your npcs in baldurs gate ee, as well as a few romances. I don't play without it. I consider it an essential mod. It is really wonderfully done.

    http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg1npc/

    I am aware of this mod, just asking why they did not create something on their own or even integrated this mod into the EE version (because the BG1NPC project is an extremely well done mod), but if it's true what
    deltago said:

    Contract Limitations

    They couldn't add anything new to old characters unless it revolved around new content.

    said, then I got my answer.

    Very sad.
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266
    Unfortunately, I don't think that there would be any legal way to integrate any fa made mod into any game for sale. The purchase of baldurs gate from Atari was pretty difficult to work out. Not sure about all the details, but Atari declaring bankruptcy and going out of business played a role in the legalities as well.
  • CaradocCaradoc Member Posts: 92
    edited March 2016
    It would be awesome if Beamdog could update that contract now that they've shown that they can deliver. There are so many possibilities to expand the orginal game. The plot is great, but npcs need more dialog and banter.

    Which is why the npc mod is just an essential component for me. I just could not play the game without it anymore. Would be awesome to have something like that to become an official content.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    mashedtaters said:

    Unfortunately, I don't think that there would be any legal way to integrate any fa made mod into any game for sale.

    Actually, there is. To be able to incorporate mods in the official EEs, Beamdog just needs permission from the author(s). Considering how many mod authors now work for them, this shouldn't be a problem in most cases.

    As a matter of fact, the EEs already have some mods in them, like (part of) BG2 Fixpack, (part of) 1PP, (part of) TobEX, IWD-in-BG2, Unfinished Business for Icewind Dale, etc.

    However, that doesn't mean that incorporating mods is a good idea.

    Quite the opposite, it is a terrible idea IMO, because it takes away choices from the players and make the games less customisable.

    For example, when installing mods like BG1 NPC Project, the player can choose among several optional components and customise settings like the frequency of the banters, etc. This kind of flexibility is simply not possible if a mod is incorporated with default choices, like they did for 1PP.

    Some things are better left to mods, so different players can make different choices, or the same player can make different choices in different playthroughs keeping the game fresh and interesting for a longer time.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    deltago said:

    Contract Limitations

    They couldn't add anything new to old characters unless it revolved around new content.

    That explains why there are some weird behaviors by old NPCs with regards to Dorn in particular. If you are ambushed by hobgoblins just North of the Nashkel Mines and Yeslick and Dorn are in your party, Yeslick will make you choose (guess he's too dumb to remember that I changed Dorn's alignment to Lawful Good!) between his non-wand wielding arse or Dorn's slaughtering expertise.

    And Kivan straight up leaves out of disgust if he is in the party while Dorn tells the final chapter of his gory story.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    i read somewhere they wanted to put the npc project mod into the game but could never get in contact with the people that made it.
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    I thought Beamdog eventually came in to possession of full control of the game and its assets and can now do whatever the heck they want with it. I mean, at some point after they released BG1 and 2 Enhanced Editions.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Franpa , No. Wizards of the Coast holds those rights, and everything Beamdog does with a D&D game has to be approved by them.
  • CaradocCaradoc Member Posts: 92
    edited March 2016
    Wizzards of the sword coast aren't known of always making the most sensible decisions... I mean just look at the situation with Sword coast legends. The game was hyped as a real D&D game which would be part of the same tradition as baldur's gate or neverwinter nights... However in reality it turned out to be a simplified casual action game with a d&d stamp put on top of it.

    I mean it is downright criminal to have a right to use one of the most iconic rpg lisences and then not use it to it's full potential. The developer however paid the ultimate price as N-Space is now closing it's doors which is quite sad for the people working there. I don't have enough information about Wizzards role in this whole mess, but maybe this kind of disaster could have been avoided if Wotsc had pushed the devs to be more faithfull to d&d. Then again at the end of day it was N-space who made all those decisions to streamline rulesset and ignore what fans actually desired.

    The whole mess is quite a bummer, because Sword coast legends had much potential.
  • AutocratAutocrat Member Posts: 68
    Sword Coast Legends wasn't that bad, nor was its combat very streamlined. It felt a lot like the combat found in Dragon Age: Origins. A disappointment for people who were expecting literal 5e rules, but not really earnestly bad.

    The campaign was fun, as well. Sad to hear about n-Space, although hopefully this means Wizards will look for new CRPG partners for 5e (Beamdog, cough cough).
  • CaradocCaradoc Member Posts: 92
    edited March 2016
    I agree. The game wasn't what I hoped it to be, but I got some enjoyment of it. It is a fun little thing to play with friends. That was a great idea, but the way they streamlined combat was quite dissapointing. And many people were expecting similar modding/multiplayer experience like with nwn 1...
  • Rover_27Rover_27 Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2016
    Hi guys. Any feedback on how BGNPC works in BG:EE after SoD is installed?
    Looks like my party is going crazy initiating some delirious dialogues, speaking about Dragonspear castle all of a sudden or even leaving the party because of some crusades that I have no idea about yet. Could it be connected with the new expansion?
    The mod worked very well until today and I actually reinstalled all of its components after I installed SoD.
    Any ideas? Thank you.
    P.S. I cannot imagine playing BG:EE without this mod
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    @Rover_27 - Did you install SoD on an already-modded BGEE install? If so, SoD would overwrite the modded dialog.tlk file with the SoD one. So, all the BG1NPC dialog references now point to SoD text.

    You need to start with a clean install of BGEEv2, then add SoD, then install mods on that.

    If you do that, it works so far. I've found a problem with Coran's wyvern quest and BG1NPC. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

    image
  • Rover_27Rover_27 Member Posts: 10

    @AstroBryGuy, thank you. Just deleted everything and reinstalled in suggested order but it didn't help. I'm travelling with a party of lunatics again speaking to invisible NPCs about things that do not make sense to me. Well, it's fun sometimes.
    Maybe I should uninstall SoD for a while

  • Rover_27Rover_27 Member Posts: 10
    Ok, as I said, I've tried to reinstall everything with a clean slate to make the NPC mod work and it seems that it is extrememly SoD-incompatible. Just have a look and some fun at these screenshots:
    1. I initiated this with Kagain
    2. I initiated this with Imoen
    3. Kagain started this dialogue himself

    Such fun)) I guess, this is it for the mod. This is rather sad, I should say...



  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    Let me guess, you got the game from Steam?

    Steam downloads all the SoD files into a zip file in a dlc folder. It doesn't replace the original dialog.tlk file in the lang folder. WeiDU sees the original dialog.tlk file and patches that. Then your game uses the SoD dialog.tlk file in the zip file from the dlc folder. Hilarity ensues.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49877/bgee-sod-directory-structure#latest

    BG1NPC should work ok (minor bug with Coran's wyvern quest) with BGEEv2 without SoD. But, until there is a workaround for this dlc zip file stuff, it won't work on SoD.
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