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Lord-slayers' Shrine (Dark Souls 3)

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    Despite the fact that I've read much about it, until today, I've never actually BEEN to the Painted World of Ariamis. But with the DLC dropping this month, now seemed like the time. First off, the central idea of the Painted World, a painting that actually exists as a prison or sanctuary (or both) and functions as it's own realm is probably the most inspired one in all the series. It's creepy, and it plays on fairy tale like fears. I remember watching the movie "The Witches" when I was younger, and by far the most unnerving part to me was the story told about a girl who got kidnapped by witches and appeared in a painting, and the painting kept changing over time. It's one of THE most unsettling ideas in gothic horror (Stephen King wrote a whole book about it) and I can see why they would want to revisit it.

    Secondly, based on the audio and visual aesthetics of the original, I feel like we can gather two things. #1, though it is a different painted world in Dark Souls 3 DLC, the idea clearly seems to be that you are going to explore the wooded areas that only exist on the edges of your screen as landscape in Dark Souls 1. And #2, the ambient wolf howls that clearly come from these woods suggest to me that the large wolf boss/mini-boss fight in the DLC doesn't necessarily (and I would say likely doesn't) have to have anything to do with Sif at all. The idea of wolfs roaming the woods of this world was already established here, and I don't see any reason to think that just because you are getting a large wolf theme in the expansion that it has anything to do with the beloved Great Wolf. We really already dealt with this in Farron Keep, and I can't see any logical reason why Sif would be tied to a new painted world.

    Lastly, I will continue to hold the opinion that I would easily rate Dark Souls as the best game of all-time if but for the atrocious, crippling optimization issues. Here is another area where simple enemies (the gorge zombies) cause massive frame-rate drops that really upset the flow of the game. There isn't a single particle effect in the game that doesn't tank the frame-rate. Seath's crystals, any type of fire whatsoever, just being near oversized bosses like Sif and the Taurus Demon (hell, even the giant rat in The Depths). The Helllkite Drake's breath attack on the bridge drops it to near zero. There is no way this game should have shipped like this. I would kill for a remaster of this game (though it's never likely going to happen). It's really as poor of a console optimization job as I've ever seen for such a legendary title, and it's why I simply don't enjoy playing it and Demon's Souls as much as Scholar, Bloodborne, and Dark Souls 3. Those games are as smooth as silk, this one often feels broken. Even on a dsfix enabled PC version, it requires a substantial rig to avoid the FPS issues this game has. It's an eternal shame in my estimation.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    I have no earthly idea why Dark Souls hasn't been remastered for this generation, but if it hasn't happened yet, it likely won't. That said, I installed my PC version on my new laptop with some hi-res textures and not only does it look great, but it's stable at 30 except for very rare cases. I even hopped down to Blighttown for a second and while very specific angles would cause it to drop, normal play kept steady. I even picked up Scholar for my PC as well as it is only $10 on Steam until the 10th of October (Prepare to Die Edition of the original is only $5 as well, $15 dollars for these two games is a absolute steal).
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I've been playing more with the PC version, testing the frame-rate in various places. It seems no matter what, certain boss or enemy attacks cause things to tank. It has nothing to do with hardware, it's the game. This includes any time a boss or mini-boss explodes in a flash of light, certainly and fire breath attack (Gargoyles, Hellkite Drake) and also the Gaping Dragon's crawl attack. It's pretty consistent with how it drops. These specific enemy particle effects seem to automatically drop the FPS from 30 down to 15.

    As for Blighttown, while there are certain pockets (most of them around the lit torches) that bring it to 20 at certain angles for a split second, 85% of the upper-level runs at a solid 30.

    Based on this, I'm guessing I can still expect big drops on crystal effects, and possibly Sif, but the actual game areas like New Londo and Blighttown seem to stay far more smooth. I'm sure with a real powerhouse rig you can just muscle your way through all of these issues, but at the very least, the PC version is far, far better than the console. Though the fact that you need a state of the art gaming PC to overcome technical issues in a last generation console game just shows that From really had no clue what they were doing in terms of optimization when this game came out.
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 486
    @jjstraka34
    I'jm not sure if a high end or even a future PC can play those scenes without a frame drop.
    The Baldurs Gate engine had certain limits too, especially when it came to drake fights.
    This game is from the Pentium 2/3 era, modern PCs still can't do it :wink:

  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 486
    edited October 2016
    A new patch (1.08) before the DLC, which overhauls the POISE system from DS3. Coming on 21st !


    System updates for DLC "ASHES OF ARIANDEL".
    Adjusted poise values across the board. Poise is now more effective for heavier weapons and armor.
    Improved regular attack animations of hammer category weapons.
    Improved regular attack animations of greatsword category weapons.
    Improved regular attack animations of axe category weapons.
    Improved regular attack animations of fist category weapons.
    Improved the "Neck Swipe" weapon skill animation of scythe category weapons.
    Fixed a bug where strong attacks performed using whips would not deal additional damage when fully charged.
    Fixed a bug where strong attacks performed using the Pickaxe would consume stamina multiple times per attack.
    Adjusted the "Onislayer" weapon skill hitbox timings for Onikiri and Ubadachi.
    Adjusted the hitbox timings of the claw category weapon skill "Leaping Slash".
    Fixed a bug where rolling attacks on Astora's Greatsword could not be parried.
    Improved the "Wrath of the Gods" weapon skill animation for Wornir's Holy Sword.
    Improved the "Blind Spot" weapon skill animation for Corvian Greatknife and Handmaiden's Dagger.
    Improved the "Shield Splitter" weapon skill animation for Mail Breaker and Irithyll Rapier.
    Improved the "Wolf Leap" weapon skill animation for Old Wolf Curved Sword.
    The weapon skill of Old King's Great Hammer "Molten Perseverence" will now release lava on both hits.
    Improved the "Darkdrift" weapon skill animation for Darkdrift.
    Reduced effectiveness of rolling attack animations on Gotthard Twinswords while dual wielding.Increased effectiveness of the sorcery "Pestilent Mercury".
    Improved the cast animation of miracle "Lifehunt Scythe".
    Increased poison and toxic buildup of the pyromancies "Poison Mist" and "Toxis Mist", respectively.
    Increased durability damage buildup of the pyromancy "Acid Surge".
    Increased duration of the "Warcry" weapon skill.
    Fixed a bug where the player's lock-on target would automatically change even if "Toggle auto lock-on" was set to "OFF".
    Fixed a bug where the leader board for Darkmoon Knights would display incorrect statistics.
    Fixed a bug where the fog wall near Holy Knight Hodrick would sometimes not disappear during multiplayer even after defeating him.
    Fixed a bug where Orbeck of Vinheim would sometimes die before the player purchased all his spells.
    Fixed a bug where Patches and Greirat would never return if sent to steal after defeating all bosses.
    Fixed a bug where female characters were subject to counter damage during certain movement animations.
    Fixed a bug where equipping Vordt's Great Hammer or Irithyll Straight Sword in the left hand would cause enchantments to disappear from weapons in the right hand.
    Fixed a bug where two-handing certain weapons would cause the stealth effect on Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring to not work correctly.
    Fixed a bug where Hornet Ring was not working for claw category weapons.
    Fixed a bug where dash attacks could not be performed using Farron Greatsword.
    Fixed a bug where strong attacks using Lothric Knight Sword were not dealing thrust type damage.
    Fixed a bug where dash attacks using Onikiri and Ubadachi were not dealing thrust type damage.
    Addressed other game balance issues and fixed other flaws.



    Time to start anew. But which character and spec...

    Had a dual dagger - mage, spear + tower shield cleric, no armor/shield Katana fighterm whip wielding pyromancer (this gal was weak, but a fun weapon nonetheless ).

    Never tried the really big weapons, but I'm not really a fan of those.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Yamcha Sounds great.
  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    now that's a trailer that's so not spoilery that I thought it was fan made until right at the end
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    We've seen both bosses as far as I can tell (the wolf and it has been speculated that the Scythe Maiden is simply stage one of the fight against the bird-like abomination with the Lord Vessel). I have heard that the expansion content is about 10-15 hours long, which seems reasonable. Remains to be seen whether this PvP arena will catch on or suffer the same fate as the areas in Oolacile (which are the biggest ghost towns in the entire series). If anything, this new arena seems more specifically "game-ish" than anything they've done before, not much different than queing for a BG in an MMO or FPS game. That seems antithetical to the organic nature of Dark Souls PvP, but I've participated in so little of it I can't say with any authority. From what I can tell Dark Souls 3 hasn't received very high marks for it's PvP.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited October 2016
    @jjstraka34 They invited some youtubers over to play the new arena if you're interested. They seemed to enjoy it. DS1 had a PvP arena as well didn't it.
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    Yes, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition does have a PvP Arena.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    First reviews are in. What's in the DLC is being praised, but the nearly universal consensus seems to be it seems lacking in length. The big boss fight is in fact a two phase showcase, and the big creature is in fact who it was speculated to be (going so far as to be named outright), but is not actually the boss, but more of a added mechanic. The wolf is apparently technically optional, but required to access the PvP arena. The new weapons and spells seem to be getting universal praise. Also, it's apparently hard as hell, and tuned for at least SL80 in normal. All in all, it seems to be getting less enthusiastic reviews than previous DLC installments, but we'll have to see.

    Access seems to be what was predicted, via NPC at the initial chapel in the Cathedral of the Deep. So, much like The Old Hunters, it seems accessible by defeating as few as 2 or 3 bosses, though as anyone who has gone to the Hunter's Nightmare as soon as it's accessible knows, you probably won't accomplish much unless you are an elite player. I highly doubt the "stuck til you get to Priscilla" aspect of the first Painted World will carry over to this one.

    Additionally, reading through the item descriptions, there do seem to be connections to things in the base game (including the third sister of the Sable Church), but I can't for the life of me figure out how or why anything connects or ended up in this world. There are a few things to piece together (namely in regards to the main boss battle) but it's looking like we are only getting half of the story, much like if you'd beaten Maria in the first part of the Bloodborne DLC and had to wait 3 or 4 months to access the Fishing Hamlet and put the story together. There is a BIG lore tidbit about one of the major antagonists of the main game that certainly explains alot about Irithyll, but flies completely in the face of the generally accepted narrative that has formed around the character online.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    Somehow the DLC became available for download his evening for some people, and I watched a streamer on Twitch doing the first part, which is a large wilderness area. Disorienting with many, many enemies to worry about, and some very interesting creature design from what I've seen so far. A mixture of Gaelic and Norse themed enemies in a snowy wood. Lots of gank-type situations and very few one on one battles unless you are very careful with pulls, and even then, not so much. The combat and move-sets seem to have been taken about as far as they can possibly go, from both a player and enemy perspective.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 Damn I wish I had it
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    How would you map DS3 attributes to BG2?

    Here's my idea

    Average of Vitality & Strength -> Strength
    Dexterity -> Dexterity
    Average of Vigor & Endurance -> Constitution
    Average of Attunement & Intelligence -> Intelligence
    Average of Attunement & Faith -> Wisdom
    Luck -> Charisma
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016

    How would you map DS3 attributes to BG2?

    Here's my idea

    Average of Vitality & Strength -> Strength
    Dexterity -> Dexterity
    Average of Vigor & Endurance -> Constitution
    Average of Attunement & Intelligence -> Intelligence
    Average of Attunement & Faith -> Wisdom
    Luck -> Charisma

    That seems about correct. As for parallels to Baldur's Gate, I feel like it follows the same path thematically. The first games are very focused on one area (Lordran/Sword Coast) and the story rarely goes off the rails despite side-quests. The games are very large but tightly focused. BG2 and Dark Souls 2 are even more analogous. They take the basic theme of the first, improve the UI and aesthetics, and present you with a massive world separated like chapters in a book rather than interconnectivity. BG2 is just as all over the place and random in certain places. But both games make up for any shortcomings due to the shear amount of content and options. Throne of Bhaal and Dark Souls 3 are all about epic showdowns. There isn't a single boss battle in Dark Souls 3 that isn't a huge, operatic set-piece (even if some of the fights are gimmicks) and Throne of Bhaal is similar in that it reaches that high-level that most D&D campaigns rarely reach.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    It's actually fairly crazy just how in-sync all the reviews about the DLC are. I've probably read six or seven separate ones and they all essentially say the exact same thing. Good, not great. Some quality stuff, but short and underwhelming. Watching the stream of most of the area and the boss fights, I have to concur that they are mostly accurate. One boss who clearly falls prey to the worst criticisms of some bosses in Dark Souls 2, and another who will certainly go down as a top 10 contender for the entire series of games.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 I see. I wonder if the next DLC will make both better.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    People say that the previous DLCs for these games didn't wrap up story-lines from the main game, but I disagree. Artorias and the 3 Knights of Gwyn besides Ornstein were a huge open-ended mystery, and they dealt with it totally. Dark Souls 2 was about going to Drangleic to find a cure for the curse, and while that didn't exist, the 3 Crowns did provide an immunity or workaround to it. The Old Hunters was possibly the most fluid of all. It fleshed out everything about Gherman and made sense of Micolash's entire pre-fight dialogue, as well as Laurence and Ludwig, and showing not just the depths of depravity of the Healing Church, but also Byrgenworth under Wilhem was well. This one?? I guess there are ties to stuff I was interested in finding out in the item descriptions, and it is I suppose technically tied to the Sable Church, but unless the next DLC builds upon whatever is going on here, it doesn't make a lick of sense. Myabe Vaati or other lore-centric Youtubers will piece things together.

    Dark Souls 3 is weird anyway. It's trying to be a finale to the series while also trying to keep a foot firmly planted in the horror of Bloodborne. Aside from the callbacks to Dark Souls 1, it's really just about Sulyvahn and Aldritch ruling this transient, broken, decayed world, with a late-game focus on a twisted Royal family. There is actually some really sick and disturbing audio that is in the game files that was cut from the Oceiros fight. In the released game, he appears to be delusional while pretending to clutch Ocelotte in his hand. However, the original intent was that he actually DID have Ocelotte in his hands (just invisible, as we know cross-breeds can be). When he goes mad in the second phase, you don't just hear the baby crying. Every time he swings, there is a sickening splatting sound, implying that he is swinging Ocelotte into the ground as a weapon and unknowingly viciously beating his infant child to death. Apparently even From has limits, though I can't see why they didn't just go through with it after Bloodborne.
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    Artorias was the best DLC for me personally. Ariandel DLC is dissapointing a bit. It's well made in terms of quality but:
    1. it's too short knowing that this is first part of the closure of Souls.
    2. I believe they wanted this to be part of main game but then cut it because didn't have time to finish it.
    3. overall, doesn't have the exposition and gravitas as Artorias had (and Manus).
    4. I have to see what final DLC will bring but this would leave me with unsatisfaction as closure of Souls franchise.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    I shall reserve judgment
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    brus said:

    Artorias was the best DLC for me personally. Ariandel DLC is dissapointing a bit. It's well made in terms of quality but:

    1. it's too short knowing that this is first part of the closure of Souls.
    2. I believe they wanted this to be part of main game but then cut it because didn't have time to finish it.
    3. overall, doesn't have the exposition and gravitas as Artorias had (and Manus).
    4. I have to see what final DLC will bring but this would leave me with unsatisfaction as closure of Souls franchise.
    In addition, the Dark Souls 2 DLC was also universally viewed as far superior to anything in the main game (this inevitably due to it's well-known development problems), and The Old Hunters was SUPPOSED to be two DLC packs, but they combined them. Ashes of Ariandel is the result of them actually splitting that content up. In the end, if the the 2nd one wraps things up and is a knock-out, it won't matter much at all. But in the present, it leaves everyone hanging until the spring. You're right about the gravitas, because, again, it doesn't really make any sense aside from a stand-alone story. Yes, it has ties to things in the main game, but they (at the moment) seem tacked-on and out of the blue.

    However, to be fair, this DLC has a hell of a legacy to live up to, and even a mediocre Dark Souls DLC is far better than 90% of other game additions. Return of the Jedi isn't Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't make it "bad", just disappointing a bit.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    Been thinking lately about how I would rank all 5 games, and I think I probably have some minority opinions:

    #5 Demon's Souls- I understand it was first, and maybe coming to it after having played 3 of the other titles spoils things, but Demon's Souls really shows it age, and I can't help but feel like everything was done much better in every other game on this list. The combat is so light it feels like floating on air. Magic is absurdly overpowered. Most of all though, I can't really stand the lore and story. It's weak. Boletaria (even the name) is a totally generic fantasy kingdom, and the idea that every boss is a "demon" is just silly. I also find Tower of Latria to be a bit overrated. It may make you feel one way if you've never seen a D&D Mindflayer before, but I'm actually of the opinion that the homage to it in Dark Souls 3 (Irithyll Dungeon) is far more effective, and those Jailers far better design-wise.

    #4 Dark Souls- This is weird, because if you were asking me which game deserves the highest spot on "best of all-time" list, I'd pick Dark Souls without hesitation. The Undead Asylum to Anor Londo is one of the great journeys in all of gaming. It is, conceptually, perfect. So why the hell is it at #4?? A couple reasons. It has major technical issues that can't be overlooked. The second half of the game is far, far weaker, and I find both the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith to be genuinely terrible. I think the number of actually good boss fights is far less than people remember. The Covenant system and PvP is too restricted to compare to later titles. If Dark Souls ever gets the remaster for the current-gen it so richly deserves, it might vault to my top spot, but as the game sits right now on PS3 and PC, I simply can't make a case for it being any higher.

    #3 Dark Souls 3- Dark Souls 3 has weaknesses. It's enemies move at the pace of Bloodborne's enemies while keeping the player-character stuck in essentially the same methodical, slower paradigm of the previous games, and it doesn't always gel correctly. It relies way too much on callbacks to the first game. That said, it is a well-crafted story that has very few technical problems, and it's boss fights are ALL amazing set-pieces. The areas, while not interlocking, are all fantastic stand-alone video game levels (with, again, the possible exception of the Demon Ruins, which they've struck out on twice). Overall, it takes the dark fantasy the series is known for and mixes it with the straight horror of Bloodborne to create a pretty potent mix of atmosphere.

    #2 Bloodborne- No game From has made has been as fully-realized, from the opening to the end of the DLC, as Bloodborne. It isn't just a great Souls game, it's possibly THE best expression of both Lovecraftian and Gothic horror ever established in a video game medium. It manages to make you think you are going to be hunting werewolves and beasts, and after Old Yharnam completely flips the script on you going full on Eldritch horror without so much as a warning. The way Insight works, the trick weapons, the frenetic pace. And the bosses, my goodness, the bosses have never been done any better. Bloodborne is enthralling, grotesque, obscene, and probably the most perfect expression of what the team at From has been trying to accomplish.

    #1 Dark Souls 2- This title gets alot of hate, mostly because it's world (and to some extent, the levels) aren't interconnected. The thing I love about Dark Souls 2 is that it tries so many things and gives the player nearly unlimited options. Bonfire Aesthetics, despawning enemies, the return to the HP penalty of Demon Souls, a truly innovative PvP system. Then there is simply the AMOUNT of places to go. Dark Souls 2 is a vast, sprawling mess of a game. It's not connected because it couldn't be. In Dark Souls you were simply exploring the area above and below Anor Londo. It doesn't really take place in a kingdom, it's basically one large city and what surrounds it. Dark Souls 2 takes you across an entire kingdom. The build options are endless, NG+ actually changes things. There are a metric ton of NPC invaders, summons, and things to see. I love the way it looks. But mostly, I could never not make it #1 because of Majula, possibly my favorite place in all of video games. The blinding sun when you walk out of Things Betwixt, the absolutely haunting, beautiful music. The ocean sweeping against the cliffs. I've literally spent hours in Majula doing basically nothing just basking in the atmosphere. It's really quite a magical place, and is something I didn't feel from either Firelink Shrine, the Hunter's Dream, or (certainly) the Nexus.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 Great post. I don't agree, though. To me DS2 is the least favourite (of the 3).
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    For the record, I am referring to the Scholar of the First Sin version, as I've never played the original. I don't doubt the initial release disappointed many people. I know alot of people had problems with the lighting/darkness torch elements in the initial release after being led to believe something much more dynamic was coming in the trailer. Scholar also fixes that problem, as at least every other area has a section where a torch is, if not a necessity, certainly very useful.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 Good point, but SotFS is what I am referring to as well.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2016
    After watching a much more detailed Let's Play and scrolling through the comment section and meshing them with my own thoughts, I think I have a much better understanding of what's going on, though I honestly hope that From's promise that the DLCs are connected is true. Because, in a way, this absolutely IS the Londor/Sable Church DLC most had wanted/predicted, it's just taking the absolute most unorthodox route to get there imaginable. In fact, after getting some of this straight in my head, the whole thing seems much more impressive. I personally just wish they'd waited a few more months and released the whole thing together like they did with the Old Hunters. I'm eagerly anticipating the lore theory videos on this one.

    As speculated before, the PvP arena is literally using the same kind of match-making functions you would see in an FPS, albeit there is only one arena. It actually has options to disable Estus flasks in the match. It's just very odd to essentially see a organized deathmatch mode in Dark Souls.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 Sounds pretty good. Can't wait to play... on Friday *sigh*

    As for the PvP arena I agree but I'm glad it's there for those who want it
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