The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Subracting a point or two from your review for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair, and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a whopping 0 because it has a trans character.
What Trent is asking isn't outrageous or uncalled for. Some politically/religiously motivated people who dislike the LGBT community are bashing the game because Glint is a trans character. These unfair criticisms of the game are of course also mixed with fair criticism of the game. But it is not the fair criticisms of the game he is concerned about.
Trent is encouraging those of us who have positive opinions of the game to take the time to post our opinions offset the unfair political/religious criticisms. Some who have positive opinions of the game may not post such opinions were they not encouraged to.
So yes, he is trying to encourage those who like the game to post positive reviews to offset unfair religious/politically motivated reviews. Fair enough in my opinion.
1) That's demonstrably not all of the criticism and not even the most popular one, the main complain being completely unrelated which is technical issues and the second one being only a related tangent: poor writing.
2) Where is religion ever mentioned? Produce ONE popular review where it is mentioned.
3) While you're entitled to your opinion, Steam has Terms of Service developers must abide to and this is borderline if not explicitly against said terms and conditions for a development to encourage politically motivated upvoting, no matter how much you agree with the politics, when it comes to Steam it's their house, their rules frankly.
If you would read my post, you will see that I clearly stated "These unfair criticisms of the game are of course also mixed with fair criticism of the game." There are many fair criticisms of the game.
But most of the reviews go out of their way to mention that they dislike the LBGT content. The left generally supports the LBGT agenda. The religiously conservative right does not support the LBGT agenda. It is not liberals (for the most part) complaining about LBGT content. It is mostly those of a religious right disposition that are writing such reviews.
I love getting accused of stuff like this indirectly because of my religion and political views! I don't really want to turn this thread into a discussion of both mine and the Church's beliefs on the LGBTQ etc. community, but you really should try to learn something, at least about Catholics.
Actually, many Catholics do vote Democrat. It's the evagelical protestant Christians that vote almost exclusively Republican and are mostly against the LBGT agenda.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political beliefs (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons and are strongly offended by the content).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yup, that's my quasi-religion: excluding entire groups of people from our culture just because of who they are is morally wrong, and we shouldn't need an explicit reason to include them. I go to quasi-church on Sunday mornings where I eat eggs Benedict, sip coffee, and quasi-pray about this.
The fact that this thread even exists honestly reaffirms my belief that people will create an outrage over absolutely nothing, just so they can create a s**t storm. You people are acting like Beamdog slapped rainbows on the cover art, had said NPC tell you about all of her sexual experiences with women and then tried to romance CHARNAME if you were a female character. THAT would be forcing it down your throat, not adding one line to an NPC that divulges a back story which you HAVE TO INQUIRE ABOUT to have her explain. So no, she doesn't explain it for no reason-you ask her about her name and she offers context as to why she gave it to herself. Was it well written dialogue? Not necessarily. Is it forced on you? Absolutely not. If you truly feel that way, you're just as sensitive as all the SJWs you claim to hate so much. I'll be the first to say that SJWs tend to annoy me, but this is clearly a non-issue. If whatever kid decided he wanted to make a s**t post didn't stir the pot, 90% of you wouldn't be on here arguing about this. You're simply trying to put your two cents in about some bs "political agenda" that doesn't exist just so you can feel good for standing up for your beliefs and it's honestly childish. And to say that the negative reviews of the game all being the "most helpful" reviews is asinine, especially given that every single positive review has been vehemently downvoted, even the ones that offer more context than "game is good." There is no reliable data to compare how helpful they actually are. There is a clear bias in ensuring which reviews seem helpful. This entire argument is absolutely stupid.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political reviews (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
1) Actually is not most: it's some but among the most popular reviews, specially on steam, only some even mention it or mention it only to point out that they do not care about it or have issues with it.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
The fact that this thread even exists honestly reaffirms my belief that people will create an outrage over absolutely nothing, just so they can create a s**t storm. You people are acting like Beamdog slapped rainbows on the cover art, had said NPC tell you about all of her sexual experiences with women and then tried to romance CHARNAME if you were a female character. THAT would be forcing it down your throat, not adding one line to an NPC that divulges a back story which you HAVE TO INQUIRE ABOUT to have her explain. So no, she doesn't explain it for no reason-you ask her about her name and she offers context as to why she gave it to herself. Was it well written dialogue? Not necessarily. Is it forced on you? Absolutely not. If you truly feel that way, you're just as sensitive as all the SJWs you claim to hate so much. I'll be the first to say that SJWs tend to annoy me, but this is clearly a non-issue. If whatever kid decided he wanted to make a s**t post didn't stir the pot, 90% of you wouldn't be on here arguing about this. You're simply trying to put your two cents in about some bs "political agenda" that doesn't exist just so you can feel good for standing up for your beliefs and it's honestly childish. And to say that the negative reviews of the game all being the "most helpful" reviews is asinine, especially given that every single positive review has been vehemently downvoted, even the ones that offer more context than "game is good." There is no reliable data to compare how helpful they actually are. There is a clear bias in ensuring which reviews seem helpful. This entire argument is absolutely stupid.
Yes, the poeple making these unfair and dishonest reviews for political or religious reasons are cry-babies that will get offended over anything.
But because of their reviews, I now feel legitimate outrage because unfairly criticizing a game in such as way may effect the bottom-line for the company that may one day create BG3!!! I think Beamdog is doing a great job, and if these bigots prevent BG3 from happening by hurting the sales of SOD too much then I will be outraged!!
Such unfair and dishonest reviews of the game for political or religious reasons may hurt sales of the game enough to legitimatlely jeopardize the possibility of BG3.
So you cry-babies out there making these fake reviews for bigoted religious/political reasons, PLEASE CUT IT OUT!!!
I do welcome fair criticisms of the game, but giving the ENTIRE GAME a zero or one because of a trans character?!?!?! Get over yourself's you f*cking cry-babies...
Well the "social justice warriors" strike again!!! I got to say Beamdog, do any of your fans really care about transgendered characters and LBGTQ's in gaming...far too much of that today all around us, that's why we play games You were asking for it with you're politically correct additions to the game now you get to feel the "politically correct" backlash... my two cents. Great game by the way, love playing it and looking forward to more.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political reviews (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
1) Actually is not most: it's some but among the most popular reviews, specially on steam, only some even mention it or mention it only to point out that they do not care about it or have issues with it.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
Just give it up already. It's already obvious what the bigoted trolls are doing. Your paper-thin arguments trying to support such bigotry are a joke.
Let's hope these bigoted trolls don't ruin BG3 for us. Bunch of f*cking cry-babies, I swear...
Well the "social justice warriors" strike again!!! I got to say Beamdog, do any of your fans really care about transgendered characters and LBGTQ's in gaming...far too much of that today all around us, that's why we play games
I personally play games because they're fun, not as a temporary reprieve from the gay plague.
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason.
The problem people have is that LGBT characters need a "reason" to be present in the first place. How come you don't need a reason to be straight?
Because, at least in the United States, roughly 3.8% of Americans self-identify as LGBT. 3.8%. Think on that number. Now, when you think about developers adding new party members, characters, etc, being like "Yeah! We have a transgender character and 2 gays, 3 bisexuals, and a lesbian!) I'm thinking... wow. Diversity quotas are so high that we're massively over-representing LGBT, here.
According to the 2015 Gallup poll that measured the amount of population that identify as LGBT, Americans *think* that 23% of the population is LGBT. Again, massive disparity from the 3.8% reality. Could this be from the massive diversity push in media? Ensuring that LGBT characters are present in nearly every game/movie/tv show/book? Possibly!
So this brings me back to the point of "why do LGBT characters need a reason to be present?", and "why don't you need a reason to be straight?". So, why? Because statistics! Statistically, if you have 20 available party members in a video game, if we're going by IRL numbers, approximately 0-1 of them would be LGBT.
So, to answer the first question of why they need a reason, it's because they statistically wouldn't likely be present. So if you're going to add an LGBT character, give them a heck of a reason to be there! Write them well, and for the love of Tempus, don't make the entire party herosexual like Dragon Age 2 did, because it's jarring and out of place.
And to answer the second question of "How come you don't need a reason to be straight?" Again, statistics. If 96.2% of people are statistically straight, it's very likely that, when you walk into the local tavern searching for some extra muscle to bring along on your journey, a vast, vast majority of those adventurers would, in fact, be straight.
Pull up a seat, everyone - this is going to be a good show.
Been watching the thread for a couple hours. I wouldn't say it's a good show, but it is strangely captivating. I guess maybe it's like how some people have to stop to look at the site of an accident?
Because, at least in the United States, roughly 3.8% of Americans self-identify as LGBT. 3.8%. Think on that number. Now, when you think about developers adding new party members, characters, etc, being like "Yeah! We have a transgender character and 2 gays, 3 bisexuals, and a lesbian!) I'm thinking... wow. Diversity quotas are so high that we're massively over-representing LGBT, here.
If you want to quote real-world statistics, how many people in the US are dragons? 0%. Dragons are vastly over-represented in Baldur's Gate, and indeed all Forgotten Realms lore.
Well the "social justice warriors" strike again!!! I got to say Beamdog, do any of your fans really care about transgendered characters and LBGTQ's in gaming...far too much of that today all around us, that's why we play games
I personally play games because they're fun, not as a temporary reprieve from the gay plague.
As much as I share your sentiment of playing games for fun, I feel we're an eloquent enough bunch to refrain from statements such as the one past that comma, don't we now?
Frankly, all this outrage is just going to draw more attention to the game and cause it to sell more copies. So uhh... good job trying to create a controversy that will only result on more attention being paid to the product and probably more sales in general!
Because, at least in the United States, roughly 3.8% of Americans self-identify as LGBT. 3.8%. Think on that number. Now, when you think about developers adding new party members, characters, etc, being like "Yeah! We have a transgender character and 2 gays, 3 bisexuals, and a lesbian!) I'm thinking... wow. Diversity quotas are so high that we're massively over-representing LGBT, here.
If you want to quote real-world statistics, how many people in the US are dragons? 0%. Dragons are vastly over-represented in Baldur's Gate, and indeed all Forgotten Realms lore.
That's a pretty silly way to think about it. Because I was referring solely to humans, not dragons, not rakshasa, not forest trolls, and not djinn. Now, if you want to actually take a step back and think about it as opposed to using a flippant remark that has nothing to do with the argument at hand, please go ahead and do so.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political reviews (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
1) Actually is not most: it's some but among the most popular reviews, specially on steam, only some even mention it or mention it only to point out that they do not care about it or have issues with it.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
Just give it up already. It's already obvious what the bigoted trolls are doing. Your paper-thin arguments trying to support such bigotry are a joke.
Let's hope these bigoted trolls don't ruin BG3 for us. Bunch of f*cking cry-babies, I swear...
I do not subscribe to "listen and believe" tactics. I am also mostly unfaced by pointless name calling as it serves only to deflate your own arguments.
So, care to explain how people are bigoted trolls because they mostly state "This game has tons of bugs, multiplayer barely works, and the shoe-horn an agenda with poor writing that doesn't lands in the context of the game"
Assuming most people mention all 3 things, how do you go from "The political statement seems like it cause of bad writing" to "I am a Christian/Muslim biggot who thinks transexuals are evil sinners henceforth I am downvoting"
Do you answer all questions on views you don't agree with simply by saying "These bigoted trolls are harassing me" without actually addressing any of their points all of the time? Do you really have so little confidence in the strength of your position that you can't even coherently explain why this people, who NEVER MENTION RELIGION AT ALL are religious bigots and conservatives and whatever other term you want to unfairly and baselessly throw around?
If anything, you're showing how you're willing to shoe horn the arguments to be only about politics (as much as the developers are doing so) instead of actually addressing honest criticism like this game it's just overall shitty, buggy, poorly written.
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political reviews (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
1) Actually is not most: it's some but among the most popular reviews, specially on steam, only some even mention it or mention it only to point out that they do not care about it or have issues with it.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
Just give it up already. It's already obvious what the bigoted trolls are doing. Your paper-thin arguments trying to support such bigotry are a joke.
Let's hope these bigoted trolls don't ruin BG3 for us. Bunch of f*cking cry-babies, I swear...
And to answer the second question of "How come you don't need a reason to be straight?" Again, statistics. If 96.2% of people are statistically straight, it's very likely that, when you walk into the local tavern searching for some extra muscle to bring along on your journey, a vast, vast majority of those adventurers would, in fact, be straight.
Yeah, but its not there have been a ton of gay NPCs in the games. Can you really say that more than 3.8% of the characters have been gay or transgendered in Baldur's Gate? Its been 3 total from what I can tell (Edwina doesn't count!).
Also, from my experience on this forum and with various mods, it does seem like the most avid Baldur's Gate aficionados may be disproportionately gay or trans, making the representation much more sensible.
Whether the presentation of the one character in question was ham-fisted or not is a fair discussion, but I don't think there is much of an argument for over-representation.
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason.
The problem people have is that LGBT characters need a "reason" to be present in the first place. How come you don't need a reason to be straight?
Wrong. The problem is when a character shouts "I'M LGBT+!" without it having any affect on the plot. None of the other characters say "I'M STRAIGHT!" at any point, you're just assuming that they're straight / gay / whatever orientation you assume. As has been stated many, many times, people aren't upset by the characters existence, but by the horrible way it was put in the game.
That's a pretty silly way to think about it. Because I was referring solely to humans
Oh. So as long as all the gay NPCs are elves or dwarves, it's cool, yeah?
Speaking of taking a step back and thinking, my point is that yes, it is unrealistic for a large percentage of characters to be gay. It's also unrealistic for there to be dragons. So maybe realism isn't actually that important.
As much as I share your sentiment of playing games for fun, I feel we're an eloquent enough bunch to refrain from statements such as the one past that comma, don't we now?
I was being facetious because that was a ludicrous thing to say.
Pull up a seat, everyone - this is going to be a good show.
Been watching the thread for a couple hours. I wouldn't say it's a good show, but it is strangely captivating. I guess maybe it's like how some people have to stop to look at the site of an accident?
This is like a special, obscene slice of the "culture war" playing out before our very eyes... I find it both sad and captivating myself haha
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason.
The problem people have is that LGBT characters need a "reason" to be present in the first place. How come you don't need a reason to be straight?
Because, at least in the United States, roughly 3.8% of Americans self-identify as LGBT. 3.8%. Think on that number. Now, when you think about developers adding new party members, characters, etc, being like "Yeah! We have a transgender character and 2 gays, 3 bisexuals, and a lesbian!) I'm thinking... wow. Diversity quotas are so high that we're massively over-representing LGBT, here.
According to the 2015 Gallup poll that measured the amount of population that identify as LGBT, Americans *think* that 23% of the population is LGBT. Again, massive disparity from the 3.8% reality. Could this be from the massive diversity push in media? Ensuring that LGBT characters are present in nearly every game/movie/tv show/book? Possibly!
So this brings me back to the point of "why do LGBT characters need a reason to be present?", and "why don't you need a reason to be straight?". So, why? Because statistics! Statistically, if you have 20 available party members in a video game, if we're going by IRL numbers, approximately 0-1 of them would be LGBT.
So, to answer the first question of why they need a reason, it's because they statistically wouldn't likely be present. So if you're going to add an LGBT character, give them a heck of a reason to be there! Write them well, and for the love of Tempus, don't make the entire party herosexual like Dragon Age 2 did, because it's jarring and out of place.
And to answer the second question of "How come you don't need a reason to be straight?" Again, statistics. If 96.2% of people are statistically straight, it's very likely that, when you walk into the local tavern searching for some extra muscle to bring along on your journey, a vast, vast majority of those adventurers would, in fact, be straight.
Conceded. Say someone disagrees with you. Does he not has the right to state "I don't think a classic game is the proper medium to encourage that argument"? Bear in mind I am not saying you have to agree or in any way be persuaded by said argument or to even address it. The question remains, why doesn't said people have the right to state their opinion on the matter?
If the developers didn't want the discussion to be about it (which I will continue to maintain is mostly not) why did they made those statements in an interview? Why put it into the game at all?
Freedom of speech goes both ways: If you want to make these points in the game, in the PR and press, you're welcome to. You also must accept there will be resistance, dissent and different opinions. You don't get to present this arguments uncontested, a reasonable person would address the arguments something I see you're attempting to do. Yet look at how many people are telling me to "give up" and calling dissent "religious bigots" because they cannot concede someone might disagree.
And to answer the second question of "How come you don't need a reason to be straight?" Again, statistics. If 96.2% of people are statistically straight, it's very likely that, when you walk into the local tavern searching for some extra muscle to bring along on your journey, a vast, vast majority of those adventurers would, in fact, be straight.
Yeah, but its not there have been a ton of gay NPCs in the games. Can you really say that more than 3.8% of the characters have been gay or transgendered in Baldur's Gate? Its been 3 total from what I can tell (Edwina doesn't count!).
Also, from my experience on this forum and with various mods, it does seem like the most avid Baldur's Gate aficionados may be disproportionately gay or trans, making the representation much more sensible.
Whether the presentation of the one character in question was ham-fisted or not is a fair discussion, but I don't think there is much of an argument for over-representation.
Do I think LGBT is over-represented in BG? No, not at all. In fact, it could be argued that Beamdog has done a pretty solid job in bringing a more sexually diverse cast to a much older game, and I applaud that. I just wanted to answer the other guy why LGBT characters need a reason to be there, and that's because they make up such a statistically small portion of a population.
I don't think they did a good job on Mizrena though.
As for over-representation: Not in BG, as I outlined above, but my dispute is with a current trend in games like my example of Dragon Age 2, where David Gaider (a new employee of Beamdog, actually) made every single romanceable party member in the game (sans DLC Sebastian) LGBT. *That's* the kind of over-representation that jars immersion, for me, and it's not something I'd like to see in an upcoming BG3, see what I'm saying?
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason.
The problem people have is that LGBT characters need a "reason" to be present in the first place. How come you don't need a reason to be straight?
Wrong. The problem is when a character shouts "I'M LGBT+!" without it having any affect on the plot. None of the other characters say "I'M STRAIGHT!" at any point, you're just assuming that they're straight / gay / whatever orientation you assume. As has been stated many, many times, people aren't upset by the characters existence, but by the horrible way it was put in the game.
Uh, no. It's not wrong. The person I was responding to (and others) literally just said that LGBT characters need a reason to exist. Just because you're not saying it doesn't mean nobody else is.
And again, how would you know the character is trans if they didn't mention it?
The liberal left is generally open to the LBGT community and most liberals are agnostic or atheist (though there are religious liberals as well).
People you are arguing with are mostly liberals as well. They don't care about LGBT, they just dislike methods used to promote it. Like forcing LGBT characters into everything for no good reason. Thanks to quasi-religious people who think it is a "moral imperative" to do so.
Yes, there may be many liberal who also hate how the LBGT material was presented. And they might doc the game a point or two in their review for that.
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Minusing a point or two for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a 0 because it has a trans character.
How? I already showed you people have other reasons for the low rating, mostly technical issues and bad writing. You're just begging the question using ridiculous stereotypes when again, I haven't seen a SINGLE review even mentioning religion when we know religious fundamentalists have no problem in constantly mentioning it. Please stop engaging in baseless character assassination.
Most reviews I've seen giving the game a 1 or a 0 mention the LBGT content. Most liberals aren't so offended by LBGT content to give the ENTIRE GAME a 0. If a liberal found the content presented poorly, they might minus a point or two from their review.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political reviews (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
1) Actually is not most: it's some but among the most popular reviews, specially on steam, only some even mention it or mention it only to point out that they do not care about it or have issues with it.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
Just give it up already. It's already obvious what the bigoted trolls are doing. Your paper-thin arguments trying to support such bigotry are a joke.
Let's hope these bigoted trolls don't ruin BG3 for us. Bunch of f*cking cry-babies, I swear...
I do not subscribe to "listen and believe" tactics. I am also mostly unfaced by pointless name calling as it serves only to deflate your own arguments.
So, care to explain how people are bigoted trolls because they mostly state "This game has tons of bugs, multiplayer barely works, and the shoe-horn an agenda with poor writing that doesn't lands in the context of the game"
Assuming most people mention all 3 things, how do you go from "The political statement seems like it cause of bad writing" to "I am a Christian/Muslim biggot who thinks transexuals are evil sinners henceforth I am downvoting"
Do you answer all questions on views you don't agree with simply by saying "These bigoted trolls are harassing me" without actually addressing any of their points all of the time? Do you really have so little confidence in the strength of your position that you can't even coherently explain why this people, who NEVER MENTION RELIGION AT ALL are religious bigots and conservatives and whatever other term you want to unfairly and baselessly throw around?
If anything, you're showing how you're willing to shoe horn the arguments to be only about politics (as much as the developers are doing so) instead of actually addressing honest criticism like this game it's just overall shitty, buggy, poorly written.
Almost every review I've seen giving the game a 1 or 0 cite the LBGT content. They are giving it a 1 or 0 because they don't agree with the LBGT agenda. This is obvious for all to see.
There are also legitimate reviews out there that are not positive about the game, but the VAST majority are trolls attacking the game because they don't support the LBGT community. This is obvious. Quit pretending this isn't the case - you are not convincing anyone (not even yourself).
Comments
I doubt it is liberals giving the game 0's or 1's in huge numbers because of the LBGT content. Subracting a point or two from your review for the presentation of the LBGT content is fair, and many liberals may do just that.
Giving the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 because it has LBGT content shows that you are most likely against the LBGT community for religious or political reasons. Most likely you are a conservative Christian Republican voter if you give the game a whopping 0 because it has a trans character.
But people against the LBGT agenda for religious or political reasons are giving the ENTIRE GAME a 1 or 0 because of their religious or political beliefs (they are against the LBGT agenda for either political or religious reasons and are strongly offended by the content).
As I've already stated multiple times, there are MANY fair criticisms of the game.
But 90% of the reviews with a 1 or 0 SPECIFICALLY mention the trans character or LBGT content because they are OFFENDED by that content for religious or political reasons.
2) Those who DO specifically mention it is usually very clearly as it pertains to poor writing and characterization that feels overall out of place in the context of this game. You can disagree with their view surely, but most people make it clear that they have no problem with the LGBT community and some of us are critical while being part of said "community" by virtue of sexual orientation or identity
3) 95% of statistics are usually made up on the spot. So I am afraid that I must see your empirical data which you either created fantastically fast or I must take your 90% estimation with a grain of salt, after all I previously conceded that I haven't read or counted all reviews (just what I considered significative, feel free to disagree) and you likely haven't either.
4) Disregard 1, 2 and 3. You're still presenting a false equivalency here: just because some people might not like LGBT content does not automatically or remotely make them conservative or religious or even political.
Nobody is offended at the character itself. You simply cannot offer evidence to the contrary and since you're making the extraordinary claim that you know they're offended and not only that but specifically because of religious of political reasons, you really have to do better than stating it without evidence, otherwise you're just as lacking in logical reasoning as the religious people you seem to have such a distaste for with your empty claims that replace "God exists because I say so" with "Bigots exist because I say so" with nothing to back such a claim at all.
But because of their reviews, I now feel legitimate outrage because unfairly criticizing a game in such as way may effect the bottom-line for the company that may one day create BG3!!! I think Beamdog is doing a great job, and if these bigots prevent BG3 from happening by hurting the sales of SOD too much then I will be outraged!!
Such unfair and dishonest reviews of the game for political or religious reasons may hurt sales of the game enough to legitimatlely jeopardize the possibility of BG3.
So you cry-babies out there making these fake reviews for bigoted religious/political reasons, PLEASE CUT IT OUT!!!
I do welcome fair criticisms of the game, but giving the ENTIRE GAME a zero or one because of a trans character?!?!?! Get over yourself's you f*cking cry-babies...
We need BG3.
I got to say Beamdog, do any of your fans really care about transgendered characters and LBGTQ's in gaming...far too much of that today all around us, that's why we play games
You were asking for it with you're politically correct additions to the game now you get to feel the "politically correct" backlash... my two cents. Great game by the way, love playing it and looking forward to more.
Let's hope these bigoted trolls don't ruin BG3 for us. Bunch of f*cking cry-babies, I swear...
According to the 2015 Gallup poll that measured the amount of population that identify as LGBT, Americans *think* that 23% of the population is LGBT. Again, massive disparity from the 3.8% reality. Could this be from the massive diversity push in media? Ensuring that LGBT characters are present in nearly every game/movie/tv show/book? Possibly!
So this brings me back to the point of "why do LGBT characters need a reason to be present?", and "why don't you need a reason to be straight?". So, why? Because statistics! Statistically, if you have 20 available party members in a video game, if we're going by IRL numbers, approximately 0-1 of them would be LGBT.
So, to answer the first question of why they need a reason, it's because they statistically wouldn't likely be present. So if you're going to add an LGBT character, give them a heck of a reason to be there! Write them well, and for the love of Tempus, don't make the entire party herosexual like Dragon Age 2 did, because it's jarring and out of place.
And to answer the second question of "How come you don't need a reason to be straight?" Again, statistics. If 96.2% of people are statistically straight, it's very likely that, when you walk into the local tavern searching for some extra muscle to bring along on your journey, a vast, vast majority of those adventurers would, in fact, be straight.
So, care to explain how people are bigoted trolls because they mostly state "This game has tons of bugs, multiplayer barely works, and the shoe-horn an agenda with poor writing that doesn't lands in the context of the game"
Assuming most people mention all 3 things, how do you go from "The political statement seems like it cause of bad writing" to "I am a Christian/Muslim biggot who thinks transexuals are evil sinners henceforth I am downvoting"
Do you answer all questions on views you don't agree with simply by saying "These bigoted trolls are harassing me" without actually addressing any of their points all of the time? Do you really have so little confidence in the strength of your position that you can't even coherently explain why this people, who NEVER MENTION RELIGION AT ALL are religious bigots and conservatives and whatever other term you want to unfairly and baselessly throw around?
If anything, you're showing how you're willing to shoe horn the arguments to be only about politics (as much as the developers are doing so) instead of actually addressing honest criticism like this game it's just overall shitty, buggy, poorly written.
Also, from my experience on this forum and with various mods, it does seem like the most avid Baldur's Gate aficionados may be disproportionately gay or trans, making the representation much more sensible.
Whether the presentation of the one character in question was ham-fisted or not is a fair discussion, but I don't think there is much of an argument for over-representation.
Speaking of taking a step back and thinking, my point is that yes, it is unrealistic for a large percentage of characters to be gay. It's also unrealistic for there to be dragons. So maybe realism isn't actually that important. I was being facetious because that was a ludicrous thing to say.
If the developers didn't want the discussion to be about it (which I will continue to maintain is mostly not) why did they made those statements in an interview? Why put it into the game at all?
Freedom of speech goes both ways: If you want to make these points in the game, in the PR and press, you're welcome to. You also must accept there will be resistance, dissent and different opinions. You don't get to present this arguments uncontested, a reasonable person would address the arguments something I see you're attempting to do. Yet look at how many people are telling me to "give up" and calling dissent "religious bigots" because they cannot concede someone might disagree.
I don't think they did a good job on Mizrena though.
As for over-representation: Not in BG, as I outlined above, but my dispute is with a current trend in games like my example of Dragon Age 2, where David Gaider (a new employee of Beamdog, actually) made every single romanceable party member in the game (sans DLC Sebastian) LGBT. *That's* the kind of over-representation that jars immersion, for me, and it's not something I'd like to see in an upcoming BG3, see what I'm saying?
And again, how would you know the character is trans if they didn't mention it?
There are also legitimate reviews out there that are not positive about the game, but the VAST majority are trolls attacking the game because they don't support the LBGT community. This is obvious. Quit pretending this isn't the case - you are not convincing anyone (not even yourself).