Huh? What gives her the right to slut shame Safana? I guess Salvanas is going to be the next character censored from the game for being a sexist stereotype? What absurd logic.
This is much more annoying that any of the things people are complaining about here. Safana isn't even an original character.
"Slut shaming?" wtf are you talking about? A "character" whose sole personality in BG1 was a handful of suggestive voice lines is kind of a sex object yes in the sense that she had no personality outside of it.
Safana is still as flirty in SOD as she was in BG1, there's just substance behind it now since she actually has character and her "sultriness" is properly characterized.
No need to be angry, friend.
As I said, I have not gotten far enough to see anything new about Safana in Siege of Dragonspear, but I disagree with the characterization of her as a symbol of sexism. Being a flirtatious tease isn't a bad thing to have in a fictional character, and is great for comedic effect. Salvanas was one in Baldur's Gate, albeit a minor character. Yet similar characters appear in many other fictional stories. From the blonde guy in that terrible How I Met Your Mother show to Felicity's mom on Arrow to Brock in Pokemon, it has been an entertaining trope, and to treat it as sexist on its face is silly.
I'm glad they didn't change her completely though.
Faerun isn't always a nice place, just like our world. Undoubtedly there's racism, sexism, and I'm sure there is some measure of transphobia as well. I'd imagine Mizrena, were she a well written character, would want to play her cards closer to her chest, in case the MC and party are a malevolent crew.
You know there's such a thing as pride pins, right? You say it's poor, unrealistic writing for someone to wear this kind of thing on their sleeve, but some people literally wear it on their sleeve, or at least their lapel. A character being vocal about their identity is not, in itself, bad writing. It just says something about their outlook.
Also, still not clear on why dragons and magic are acceptable departures from reality, but "too many LGBTs" is not.
Sure, some people do, but those are usually associated with some sort of rally, at least in my limited experience. I personally can't imagine a Faerunian Cleric guard-whatever she is having a pride pin on her armor though lol.
As to why dragons and magic are acceptable? Well, I'm playing D&D, am I not? I'm rather conditioned to expect dragons, it's in the name! And where thar be dragons, magic seems to follow. I generally expect the humans of the setting to be fairly similar to the humans of our medieval ages, just with magic and monsters and all sorts of zany shit going on. /shrug. To be blunt, it isn't Dungeons and LGBTs, my friend.
Do you guys remember back in 1997 when Final Fantasy 7 came out? It was considered one of the greatest RPG's of the time. It was the first 3D RPG and was the first game to use CG cinematics. Baldur's Gate was released around the same time. To console users Baldur's Gate was unheard of and Final Fantasy was king. Now you may be asking why I mention this...Well the game is being remade for PS4 at the moment and....
There is a scene where the main character cloud wakes up in a little spot known as wall market adult club and you have to collect a wig and a dress and other items to make him a proper lady boy. He goes into the rape room and passes out from a mental episode and it is implied when he wakes up that he may have been raped by another man. It was a joke and most people thought it was weird or funny but no crap storm followed it. That's right. Console gamers with a younger demographic nearly 20 years ago handled this content in a more sensible manor than we are now. You had to do things in the correct way and it was a bit of an Easter egg but it was more bold than anything I have seen in SOD. Back then teenagers played the game and handled it without issue. Just sayin. Here is a link for those of you who may have forgotten the past due to the current brain washing of society or those of you that have a sense of humor and want a good laugh.
Faerun isn't always a nice place, just like our world. Undoubtedly there's racism, sexism, and I'm sure there is some measure of transphobia as well. I'd imagine Mizrena, were she a well written character, would want to play her cards closer to her chest, in case the MC and party are a malevolent crew.
You know there's such a thing as pride pins, right? You say it's poor, unrealistic writing for someone to wear this kind of thing on their sleeve, but some people literally wear it on their sleeve, or at least their lapel. A character being vocal about their identity is not, in itself, bad writing. It just says something about their outlook.
Also, still not clear on why dragons and magic are acceptable departures from reality, but "too many LGBTs" is not.
I have entire D&D books dedicated to Dragons, explaining their origins, their biology. Many stories with Dragons as the main antagonists presenting their back stories, their motivations, etc.
Can I envision a character that's upfront about their sexual orientation in Forgotten Realms? Surely. But not without proper context that works within the setting. Saying "there's magical creatures you can't bring up logic" is not an argument that works for such a rich and vast setting as Forgotten Realms.
Is it asking too much out of a piece of DLC? That I can concede, however I did not make the creative decision of including a character without having a proper chance to do it justice within the game.
I generally expect the humans of the setting to be fairly similar to the humans of our medieval ages, just with magic and monsters and all sorts of zany shit going on.
So again, it'd be fine as long as all the LGBTs are non-human races, right?
Can I envision a character that's upfront about their sexual orientation in Forgotten Realms? Surely. But not without proper context that works within the setting. Saying "there's magical creatures you can't bring up logic" is not an argument that works for such a rich and vast setting as Forgotten Realms.
I'm not saying "There's magical creatures you can't bring up logic." I'm saying you can't argue against an "overabundance" of gay people on the basis that it wouldn't accurately reflect the real world, then turn around and say dragons are fine.
Do you guys remember back in 1997 when Final Fantasy 7 came out? It was considered one of the greatest RPG's of the time. It was the first 3D RPG and was the first game to use CG cinematics. Baldur's Gate was released around the same time. To console users Baldur's Gate was unheard of and Final Fantasy was king. Now you may be asking why I mention this...Well the game is being remade for PS4 at the moment and....
There is a scene where the main character cloud wakes up in a little spot known as wall market adult club and you have to collect a wig and a dress and other items to make him a proper lady boy. He goes into the rape room and passes out from a mental episode and it is implied when he wakes up that he may have been raped by another man. It was a joke and most people thought it was weird or funny but no crap storm followed it. That's right. Console gamers with a younger demographic nearly 20 years ago handled this content in a more sensible manor than we are now. You had to do things in the correct way and it was a bit of an Easter egg but it was more bold than anything I have seen in SOD. Back then teenagers played the game and handled it without issue. Just sayin. Here is a link for those of you who may have forgotten the past due to the current brain washing of society or those of you that have a sense of humor and want a good laugh.
That scene today might offend people on the so-called "sjw" demographic and probably won't carry over into the remake. Japan is apparently beginning to even worry about how their games are going to appear to the West. But yeah, back then very, very few people were offended by that scene that I can recall. On the other hand, FFVII also offered very inclusive themes such as giving Cloud the ability to date Barrett. All these issues were handled better and without the 'snark factor' that seems to come out of so many games today.
I don't understand how Jaheira being strong is sexiest, I thought the opposite was sexiest?
Not started SoD yet so can't say if the characters have changed or not
I think it is more of her being "overbearing". Then again, I don't see how that in and of itself is sexist.
It kind of puts people in a weird situation where if you show 1. traditional gender roles: you're sexist 2. the opposite extreme: you're sexist
So what does that allow an artist to depict? A female character that falls within the average personality type you'd see in real life. Problem: where is the fun in that?
That just suppresses a whole host of colorful characters. People kinda want to see extremes depicted in some way in a work of fantasy. Normal people can be very boring in a world full of liches, dragons and demonic dogs named Rufie.
If you are going to have such stringent standards then a whole host of characters can be seen as offensive stereotypes. -You could say Minsc is just a dimwitted bro, and thus plays into male testosterone-driven, jock-type stereotypes.. or even worse, offensive to the mentally disabled, with his head injury and all. -You could say Khalid is offensive to shy, introverted men. -You could say Tiax's Napoleon complex is offensive to people with dwarfism -You could say Xzar's comedically sinister split personality is offensive to schizophrenics -Heck, you might find Alora offensive to kleptomaniacs!
What does this leave you? Colorless, bland characters. There is no fun if you can't depict all shades of characters from the fringes of recognizable personality types without fear of feeling as though you are singling out this group or that. Saying "I will depict this type of character because I like it, but actively change this other type because its not one that I care for" is the opposite of being inclusive.
There is a line where mischievous fun crosses over into being genuinely offensive, but I think people are too quick to draw that line these days.
Just to point out. I'm not reviewing a game I hadn't played yet.
I hadn't played SoD, but I had bought it. The reason why I'm not playing until now, is because I detested the UI changes and couldn't leave the first room of the game because of that.
Also, I hated even more the patch 2.0, wich completely overrode the excelent and definitive version of 1.3 for BG 1 and BG 2. I'm really disappointed and pissed off with beamdog for this patch, and I'm waiting for a retroaction to version 1.3 for BG 1 and BG 2. Also, I'd like more classic UI for Siege of Dragonspear... I really need those old scrolls sounds to mood me in the game.
I don't care one bit about how you may portray characters sexuality, what do matters to me is whether the game works as intended once launched for sale.
My experience so far have been one full with bugs, and I won't give that a positive review just cause you ask nicely.
Dabus, that may be true but I remember in high school a kid that sat next to me in study hall who was gay was very excited just to see something like that displayed in any kind of game. The game developers did what they wanted as it should be and society handled much better than they do now. I don't doubt one bit that it won't make it into the remake after seeing the reaction to SOD but that's my point.
Final Fantasy 7 was a great game and so was Baldur's gate. They both started around the same time and they are both being remade today to a different more touchy audience that likes to start flames on the net. I think it's a huge step backwards personally. I think people are just more rude and non accepting of others differences. I think the mainstream media is fueling the hate by forcing it on people all the time. If it wasn't plastered on every magazine and news site I think people would not get so wound up all the time. The media stirs the pot on purpose to get people riled up so they will click on the next article. Final Fantasy 7 did handle the issue with class and it never took itself too seriously. That is certainly something to consider.
I think it is more of her being "overbearing". Then again, I don't see how that in and of itself is sexist.
It kind of puts people in a weird situation where if you show 1. traditional gender roles: you're sexist 2. the opposite extreme: you're sexist
So what does that allow an artist to depict? A female character that falls within the average personality type you'd see in real life. Problem: where is the fun in that?
That just suppresses a whole host of colorful characters. People kinda want to see extremes depicted in some way in a work of fantasy. Normal people can be very boring in a world full of liches, dragons and demonic dogs named Rufie.
If you are going to have such stringent standards then a whole host of characters can be seen as offensive stereotypes. -You could say Minsc is just a dimwitted bro, and thus plays into male testosterone-driven, jock-type stereotypes.. or even worse, offensive to the mentally disabled, with his head injury and all. -You could say Khalid is offensive to shy, introverted men. -You could say Tiax's Napoleon complex is offensive to people with dwarfism -You could say Xzar's comedically sinister split personality is offensive to schizophrenics -Heck, you might find Alora offensive to kleptomaniacs!
What does this leave you? Colorless, bland characters. There is no fun if you can't depict all shades of characters from the fringes of recognizable personality types without fear of feeling as though you are singling out this group or that. Saying "I will depict this type of character because I like it, but actively change this other type because its not one that I care for" is the opposite of being inclusive.
There is a line where mischievous fun crosses over into being genuinely offensive, but I think people are too quick to draw that line these days.
I had some rant in response to this, but upon reflection I deleted the first third of it so as to not get myself flamed and despised, forgot the second bit and I'll just make an exasperrated summary of the final chunk:
The drow society in the Underdark is incredibly sexist. Viconia, still carrying a fair bit of that culture around with her, is incredibly sexist. But I highly doubt the people who took offense to the horrible old sexist BG raises an eyebrow at those things...
So again, it'd be fine as long as all the LGBTs are non-human races, right?
Where did I say that? I didn't say that 0% of humans are LGBT. If you want to have gay humans, fine. If you want to have a gay dwarf, fine! Just ensure that it's setting appropriate. Do you think that the drow elves would tolerate a flamboyant male Drow who was big into fashion and not thrilled with the Drow matriarchy? I doubt it, but with as tolerant as the Battlehammer dwarves are, I bet they'd be fine with a couple of dwarven miners getting frisky after their shift. I mean, as long as they still have glorious beards, drink ale, and hate the fuck out of some orcs and goblins, after all!
So, when I say setting appropriate, I mean that the aforementioned Drow would almost certainly be a Drizzt-esque outcast from his race, this is assuming he even survived to maturity. The dwarf, you'd have a likelier chance of meeting him if you journeyed to Mithral Hall. A human? Could be anywhere, could be from anywhere! It all depends on the writer, and how skilled they are with exposition.
Jaheira's characterization in BG1 was almost entirely overbearing "naggy" wife which is a sexist trope (a minor one imo but there reverse trope doesn't exist for men so by default it is sexist).
BG2 they developed her into a more thoughtful character and one of the strongest female characters portrayed in a video game.
SOD follows the BG2 characterization for Jaheira. If you liked her in BG2, you're not going to find anything to complain about with her characterization in SOD.
The "old and venerated" IP was filled with cultural stuff from its own day.
You can't divorce a work from the period it was written from. SOD is a modern day game, even if it is an expansion for an older one. You can't go and pluck writers from 1998 to write your game for you in 2016. And why you'd even want to is beyond me. The writing of games these days is as a whole better than it ever was in 1998 outside of a few notable exceptions.
Jaheira's characterization in BG1 was almost entirely overbearing "naggy" wife which is a sexist trope (a minor one imo but there reverse trope doesn't exist for men so by default it is sexist).
Overbearing husbands are often depicted, and usually in a less favorable light (many times abusive). The horrendous Baldur's Gate novel trilogy depicted Khalid in that very way.
Jaheira is the same in both games for me. All NPCs were very basic personalities in BG1 and got expanded in BG2 but didn't change personality She is one of my favourite characters and as I haven't played SoD yet it sounds worrying when you hear their personality is getting changed
Jaheira's characterization in BG1 was almost entirely overbearing "naggy" wife which is a sexist trope (a minor one imo but there reverse trope doesn't exist for men so by default it is sexist).
Overbearing husbands are often depicted, and usually in a less favorable light (many times abusive). The horrendous Baldur's Gate novel trilogy depicted Khalid in that very way.
Heck, what do you think Eldoth is?
What? There's a huge difference between "overbearing and naggy" and a guy who beats his wife. Those aren't comparable in the slightest.
And I'm not sure what Eldoth has to do with anything? He's a scumbag golddigger? That's not comparable to Jaheira's portrayal and furthermore if Eldoth was a larger role in SOD, I'm pretty sure he'd be expanded from the cardboard cutout he is in BG1 as well.
Regardless, what are you even arguing? You were making a big deal about being concerned that the npc portrayals in SOD were different than the characters they are in BG1. They're not. They're the same character archetypes but expanded. SOD Jaheira is the same character as she was in BG2 and Safana in SOD is the "sexy manipulative" archetype expanded to a more complete character.
The current answers for Mizhena's story are: -Thank you for sharing your story with me... -An interesting past... -Goodbye
None of this would have happened if they gave you options other than being super nice to her. "The gods must have cursed you" or "Talos take you, abomination", anything. You can be a dick to most NPCs and it also helps with the choice of illusion, something this expansion needs since it's pretty railroading.
Regardless, an old and venerated IP shouldn't be injected with modern-day cultural stuff.
It breaks immersion, especially when done in a non-subtle way.
Like Larry, Daryl and Daryl or Happy Happy Joy Joy or mouse magic or th' th' that's all folks?
I think he meant "culture" in the more traditional sense, and the way it is ingrained into the world, rather than simply "pop culture" references.
Regardless, I'd agree that general changes are fine, but I don't like to see characters depicted in ways almost wholly inconsistent with what we've seen before. That doesn't appear to be the case from what Tilly tells me.
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Thank you. -Trent
I brought the original BG games, played them, enjoyed them and brought the EE versions so I could play them again on newer systems. For that I'm thankful for your hard work.
However the reason you are perhaps seeing such poor reviews is because you are adding onto a classic game using a by all accounts extremely poor writer, one who apparently is proud to publically state the following.
"I consciously add as much diversity as I can to my writing and I don't care if people think that's "forced" or fake. I'm happy to be an SJW and I hope to write many Social Justice Games in the future"
I run a publishing company, we write short fiction, adult comics and mature graphic novels. If a writer came to me and that was their stated goal I wouldn't let them touch any of my content, let alone go near a beloved classic like the Baldurs gate series.
TL;DR While you can dismiss some of the reviews as angry mob, perhaps you should take a moment to consider that there are some which are genuine and well deserved.
Beamdog is censoring people on Steam for something even as simple as saying that bad writing is a valid reason to give a game a bad review. The desperation is real.
Jaheira's characterization in BG1 was almost entirely overbearing "naggy" wife which is a sexist trope (a minor one imo but there reverse trope doesn't exist for men so by default it is sexist).
Overbearing husbands are often depicted, and usually in a less favorable light (many times abusive). The horrendous Baldur's Gate novel trilogy depicted Khalid in that very way.
Heck, what do you think Eldoth is?
What? There's a huge difference between "overbearing and naggy" and a guy who beats his wife. Those aren't comparable in the slightest.
And I'm not sure what Eldoth has to do with anything? He's a scumbag golddigger? That's not comparable to Jaheira's portrayal and furthermore if Eldoth was a larger role in SOD, I'm pretty sure he'd be expanded from the cardboard cutout he is in BG1 as well.
Regardless, what are you even arguing? You were making a big deal about being concerned that the npc portrayals in SOD were different than the characters they are in BG1. They're not. They're the same character archetypes but expanded. SOD Jaheira is the same character as she was in BG2 and Safana in SOD is the "sexy manipulative" archetype expanded to a more complete character.
I doubt you've had Eldoth in your party. He is incredibly overbearing and abusive (NOT in the physical sense, but very much in the emotionally controlling sense) to Skie.
Also, I don't think you've actually read most of my posts here (it is a large thread with multiple conversations going on), but if you do you'll see that I said I hadn't yet seen Safana, but I was concerned about the quote I heard from one of the writers about her and Jaheira. I decided to see for myself, and Tilly reassured me that they didn't completely change the character.
If you reread my post that you responded to, I never said anything about "beating wives", I meant overbearing in the way that Jaheira was. The difference is, for obvious reasons, that is usually laughed off when women are in that role (and indeed, I find Jaheira and Khalid's relationship amusing), it is considered very serious when men are like that due to cultural history and physical disparity (though I'm pretty sure Jaheira could take Khalid as soon as she learns Ironskins!). Also, Eldoth being "Neutral Evil" also affects my characterization of it.
Do you guys remember back in 1997 when Final Fantasy 7 came out? It was considered one of the greatest RPG's of the time. It was the first 3D RPG and was the first game to use CG cinematics. Baldur's Gate was released around the same time. To console users Baldur's Gate was unheard of and Final Fantasy was king. Now you may be asking why I mention this...Well the game is being remade for PS4 at the moment and....
There is a scene where the main character cloud wakes up in a little spot known as wall market adult club and you have to collect a wig and a dress and other items to make him a proper lady boy. He goes into the rape room and passes out from a mental episode and it is implied when he wakes up that he may have been raped by another man. It was a joke and most people thought it was weird or funny but no crap storm followed it. That's right. Console gamers with a younger demographic nearly 20 years ago handled this content in a more sensible manor than we are now. You had to do things in the correct way and it was a bit of an Easter egg but it was more bold than anything I have seen in SOD. Back then teenagers played the game and handled it without issue. Just sayin. Here is a link for those of you who may have forgotten the past due to the current brain washing of society or those of you that have a sense of humor and want a good laugh.
Regardless, an old and venerated IP shouldn't be injected with modern-day cultural stuff.
It breaks immersion, especially when done in a non-subtle way.
Like Larry, Daryl and Daryl or Happy Happy Joy Joy or mouse magic or th' th' that's all folks?
Having an extremely favored NPC be injected with a phrase that hearkens back to a fairly 'fresh' polarizing cultural event in video-game community, coupled with some tie to transgender issue is about as un-subtle as you could be.
The fact that people make a big deal about this proves it really did break immersion for alot of people.
It's a very fine line though. My point is that games and movies have never been bound to follow one or the other. One character on the streets that spills a story about their sexual orientation seems rather tame in comparison to the many different people that FF7 could have offended for it's time. BTW, I am not the most educated of people but I'm not a total idiot Either. I don't claim to be a source of knowledge about politics or sexual minorities. If I offend, I don't mean too in this case. I am just trying to offer an alternative angle on the subject. Don't take anything I say too seriously people. We are all here because we like the same games.
Comments
As I said, I have not gotten far enough to see anything new about Safana in Siege of Dragonspear, but I disagree with the characterization of her as a symbol of sexism. Being a flirtatious tease isn't a bad thing to have in a fictional character, and is great for comedic effect. Salvanas was one in Baldur's Gate, albeit a minor character. Yet similar characters appear in many other fictional stories. From the blonde guy in that terrible How I Met Your Mother show to Felicity's mom on Arrow to Brock in Pokemon, it has been an entertaining trope, and to treat it as sexist on its face is silly.
I'm glad they didn't change her completely though.
Not started SoD yet so can't say if the characters have changed or not
As to why dragons and magic are acceptable? Well, I'm playing D&D, am I not? I'm rather conditioned to expect dragons, it's in the name! And where thar be dragons, magic seems to follow. I generally expect the humans of the setting to be fairly similar to the humans of our medieval ages, just with magic and monsters and all sorts of zany shit going on. /shrug. To be blunt, it isn't Dungeons and LGBTs, my friend.
There is a scene where the main character cloud wakes up in a little spot known as wall market adult club and you have to collect a wig and a dress and other items to make him a proper lady boy. He goes into the rape room and passes out from a mental episode and it is implied when he wakes up that he may have been raped by another man. It was a joke and most people thought it was weird or funny but no crap storm followed it. That's right. Console gamers with a younger demographic nearly 20 years ago handled this content in a more sensible manor than we are now. You had to do things in the correct way and it was a bit of an Easter egg but it was more bold than anything I have seen in SOD. Back then teenagers played the game and handled it without issue. Just sayin. Here is a link for those of you who may have forgotten the past due to the current brain washing of society or those of you that have a sense of humor and want a good laugh.
Can I envision a character that's upfront about their sexual orientation in Forgotten Realms? Surely. But not without proper context that works within the setting. Saying "there's magical creatures you can't bring up logic" is not an argument that works for such a rich and vast setting as Forgotten Realms.
Is it asking too much out of a piece of DLC? That I can concede, however I did not make the creative decision of including a character without having a proper chance to do it justice within the game.
It kind of puts people in a weird situation where if you show
1. traditional gender roles: you're sexist
2. the opposite extreme: you're sexist
So what does that allow an artist to depict? A female character that falls within the average personality type you'd see in real life. Problem: where is the fun in that?
That just suppresses a whole host of colorful characters. People kinda want to see extremes depicted in some way in a work of fantasy. Normal people can be very boring in a world full of liches, dragons and demonic dogs named Rufie.
If you are going to have such stringent standards then a whole host of characters can be seen as offensive stereotypes.
-You could say Minsc is just a dimwitted bro, and thus plays into male testosterone-driven, jock-type stereotypes.. or even worse, offensive to the mentally disabled, with his head injury and all.
-You could say Khalid is offensive to shy, introverted men.
-You could say Tiax's Napoleon complex is offensive to people with dwarfism
-You could say Xzar's comedically sinister split personality is offensive to schizophrenics
-Heck, you might find Alora offensive to kleptomaniacs!
What does this leave you? Colorless, bland characters. There is no fun if you can't depict all shades of characters from the fringes of recognizable personality types without fear of feeling as though you are singling out this group or that. Saying "I will depict this type of character because I like it, but actively change this other type because its not one that I care for" is the opposite of being inclusive.
There is a line where mischievous fun crosses over into being genuinely offensive, but I think people are too quick to draw that line these days.
I hadn't played SoD, but I had bought it. The reason why I'm not playing until now, is because I detested the UI changes and couldn't leave the first room of the game because of that.
Also, I hated even more the patch 2.0, wich completely overrode the excelent and definitive version of 1.3 for BG 1 and BG 2. I'm really disappointed and pissed off with beamdog for this patch, and I'm waiting for a retroaction to version 1.3 for BG 1 and BG 2. Also, I'd like more classic UI for Siege of Dragonspear... I really need those old scrolls sounds to mood me in the game.
My experience so far have been one full with bugs, and I won't give that a positive review just cause you ask nicely.
Final Fantasy 7 was a great game and so was Baldur's gate. They both started around the same time and they are both being remade today to a different more touchy audience that likes to start flames on the net. I think it's a huge step backwards personally. I think people are just more rude and non accepting of others differences. I think the mainstream media is fueling the hate by forcing it on people all the time. If it wasn't plastered on every magazine and news site I think people would not get so wound up all the time. The media stirs the pot on purpose to get people riled up so they will click on the next article. Final Fantasy 7 did handle the issue with class and it never took itself too seriously. That is certainly something to consider.
The drow society in the Underdark is incredibly sexist. Viconia, still carrying a fair bit of that culture around with her, is incredibly sexist. But I highly doubt the people who took offense to the horrible old sexist BG raises an eyebrow at those things...
So, when I say setting appropriate, I mean that the aforementioned Drow would almost certainly be a Drizzt-esque outcast from his race, this is assuming he even survived to maturity. The dwarf, you'd have a likelier chance of meeting him if you journeyed to Mithral Hall. A human? Could be anywhere, could be from anywhere! It all depends on the writer, and how skilled they are with exposition.
BG2 they developed her into a more thoughtful character and one of the strongest female characters portrayed in a video game.
SOD follows the BG2 characterization for Jaheira. If you liked her in BG2, you're not going to find anything to complain about with her characterization in SOD.
It breaks immersion, especially when done in a non-subtle way.
You can't divorce a work from the period it was written from. SOD is a modern day game, even if it is an expansion for an older one. You can't go and pluck writers from 1998 to write your game for you in 2016. And why you'd even want to is beyond me. The writing of games these days is as a whole better than it ever was in 1998 outside of a few notable exceptions.
Heck, what do you think Eldoth is?
And I'm not sure what Eldoth has to do with anything? He's a scumbag golddigger? That's not comparable to Jaheira's portrayal and furthermore if Eldoth was a larger role in SOD, I'm pretty sure he'd be expanded from the cardboard cutout he is in BG1 as well.
Regardless, what are you even arguing? You were making a big deal about being concerned that the npc portrayals in SOD were different than the characters they are in BG1. They're not. They're the same character archetypes but expanded. SOD Jaheira is the same character as she was in BG2 and Safana in SOD is the "sexy manipulative" archetype expanded to a more complete character.
-Thank you for sharing your story with me...
-An interesting past...
-Goodbye
None of this would have happened if they gave you options other than being super nice to her. "The gods must have cursed you" or "Talos take you, abomination", anything. You can be a dick to most NPCs and it also helps with the choice of illusion, something this expansion needs since it's pretty railroading.
Regardless, I'd agree that general changes are fine, but I don't like to see characters depicted in ways almost wholly inconsistent with what we've seen before. That doesn't appear to be the case from what Tilly tells me.
However the reason you are perhaps seeing such poor reviews is because you are adding onto a classic game using a by all accounts extremely poor writer, one who apparently is proud to publically state the following. I run a publishing company, we write short fiction, adult comics and mature graphic novels. If a writer came to me and that was their stated goal I wouldn't let them touch any of my content, let alone go near a beloved classic like the Baldurs gate series.
TL;DR
While you can dismiss some of the reviews as angry mob, perhaps you should take a moment to consider that there are some which are genuine and well deserved.
Beamdog is censoring people on Steam for something even as simple as saying that bad writing is a valid reason to give a game a bad review. The desperation is real.
Also, I don't think you've actually read most of my posts here (it is a large thread with multiple conversations going on), but if you do you'll see that I said I hadn't yet seen Safana, but I was concerned about the quote I heard from one of the writers about her and Jaheira. I decided to see for myself, and Tilly reassured me that they didn't completely change the character.
If you reread my post that you responded to, I never said anything about "beating wives", I meant overbearing in the way that Jaheira was. The difference is, for obvious reasons, that is usually laughed off when women are in that role (and indeed, I find Jaheira and Khalid's relationship amusing), it is considered very serious when men are like that due to cultural history and physical disparity (though I'm pretty sure Jaheira could take Khalid as soon as she learns Ironskins!). Also, Eldoth being "Neutral Evil" also affects my characterization of it.
The fact that people make a big deal about this proves it really did break immersion for alot of people.