"There are absolutely nothing supporting that GamerGate has done any of the death/rape threats or any of all the bad things they've been accused of doing"
*Continues off to write lengthy negative reviews of how a horrible piece of shit the game is because of a transgender person and one easter egg line Minsc has*
YEAAAAAAAAH about that...
I think you have a very grave misunderstanding of what is happening here, and would do well to read the rather long post I made a page back or so about why the backlash is happening.
I think you have a very grave misunderstanding of what is happening here, and would do well to read the rather long post I made a page back or so about why the backlash is happening.
I think you're operating under the misconception that you are on some intellectual high ground, or that is to say that you are 'more correct' than another in this rather subjective matter. As far as facts go, people have wasted more time, effort and emotional distress over two small issues than is truly sensible, based on any sort of math you could do to try and quantify worth of time spent over the time it takes to read, be distraught over, and subsequently lament any of the issues in question.
"There are absolutely nothing supporting that GamerGate has done any of the death/rape threats or any of all the bad things they've been accused of doing"
*Continues off to write lengthy negative reviews of how a horrible piece of shit the game is because of a transgender person and one easter egg line Minsc has*
YEAAAAAAAAH about that...
There are more examples of that like a scene which is textbook mansplaining. Or the stuff in which another character gets called out racist in a very strange manner. The Minsc part is stupid and breaking the 4th wall like that is pretty bad. It just enforces the argument of how badly written these parts are.
And again it is not that there is a transgender character in there but rather how this character is implemented. Again integrate these kind of characters but not to set a political message in it. Again make it believable, and not as a token character.
This: "Hello I am a merchant and by the way here is my life story because I am trans and I need to explain it to every one" is not only bad writing but also disrespectful. Further more this character is protected by the game. Your answers are:
Oh that is an interesting story tell me more Oh that is an interesting story let my buy something Oh that is an interesting story goodbye.
If you can normally threaten NPC you should be able to do it here too. Again Trans people do not need to be protected they need to be treated like everyone else.
How to do it right? There is a cross dresser in Witcher 3 which is really good written and also a merchant. You should take a look here for example.
Breaking the forth wall/immersion was bad storytelling back then. It is even worse storytelling now because storytelling in games has improved and progressed quite a bit since the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Breaking the forth wall/immersion was bad storytelling back then. It is even worse storytelling now because storytelling in games has improved and progressed quite a bit since the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Now that is really just your opinion, but I do have to ask why you were interested in Baldur's Gate games, since they seem to commit this great story-telling sin. There are plenty of other games that play it straight all the way through, if that's what you prefer. For me, the edge of humour in things like this has always been part of the appeal of the game and I'd be more disappointed if it had been dropped in SoD.
Also, just seen on Reddit how determined some people are to hurt Beamdog over being "SJWs" and it's really upset me. Beamdog have done a great job on upgrading and expanding the games, and they don't deserve to be the victims of a witch-hunt like this.
It would also be consistent for new Star Trek movies to use outdated special effects to match up with the old movies. I'd rather have improvements over consistency. Storytelling in games back in the 1990s/early 2000s was fairly rudimentary. It has improved and progressed a lot since then. Let's not go back to that just to be "consistent".
But what about people who want fourth-wall breaking humour in their games? Are we out of luck, since times have changed and we know better than to do that these days?
Frankly, when I look for a medieval fantasy RPG, I am not looking for "forth-wall breaking humor." On the other hand, I think what a lot of people want from an RPG is "immersion". That is a main selling point of "role-playing". I have always looked at breaking the forth wall as the annoyance that took me out of an immersion in video games, which (thankfully) has been mostly eliminated from most major releases over the past decade.
But my point is that some people *do* want that. Not everyone, but more than just a few weirdos. I don't think I could play through a game the length of Baldur's Gate if it didn't take the piss out of itself a few times. My point is that you have a personal preference for being completely serious in your games, I do not. Your preference is not better than mine, nor is mine better than yours, there are games that play it completely straight and games that are full of jokes, so we should both be OK.
What I don't understand is that if you prefer your games to be totally serious, why would you get the new entry in a series that has always used a portion of humour, and then complain when it continues that trend?
Then video game developers like Beamdog would have to decide if they want to market their games for the masses who want to enjoy immersion and escapism, versus a few "weirdos" who want social justice issues that do not fit into the background, stories nor time period in their video games.
What I don't understand is that if you prefer your games to be totally serious, why would you get the new entry in a series that has always used a portion of humour, and then complain when it continues that trend?
Back in the 1990s/early 2000s, I had to tolerate it because that was how video games were. The forth-wall breaking was an annoyance, but it was minor and subtle enough for me to tolerate it. We have moved beyond it because storytelling in video games has advanced, improved and progresssed during the past decade. Frankly, I do not want to go back to that... I would rather avoid a video game that has "forth-wall breaking" unless it is titled "Deadpool".
I think you've misunderstood me. I do not care particularly about "social justice issues", and my viewpoint isn't particularly weird. I want fun games that don't take themselves too seriously all the time. I know I'm not alone in that. Why do you think so many games employ humour? People like it.
Social justice or not, I do not like video games that break immersion and the forth wall, (with very few exceptions.) Let's agree to disagree: we do not like the same thing.
BTW, you were drawing a strawman by equating humor with breaking the forth wall.
Social justice or not, I do not like video games that break immersion and the forth wall, (with very few exceptions.) Let's agree to disagree: we do not like the same thing.
BTW, you were drawing a strawman by equating humor with breaking the forth wall.
Sort of like how you can get a grenade launcher in ToB?
If you don't like videogames that break the immersion or the forth wall then you must hate BG1/2
They were not my "top favorite games". They were okay. Honestly though, I do not remember too many forth-wall breaking moments in BG1/2. Examples?
BTW, there are ambiguous, elegant, subtle ways to break the forth wall, and then there are awkward, clumsy ways. Based on what I've read about how Siege of Dragonspear broke the forth wall, it seemed to have done it in a fairly awkward, clumsy and intrusive in-your-face manner.
BTW, there are ambiguous, elegant, subtle ways to break the forth wall, and then there are awkward, clumsy ways. Based on what I've read about how Siege of Dragonspear broke the forth wall, it seemed to have done it in a fairly awkward, clumsy and intrusive in-your-face manner.
Sort of like how you can get a grenade launcher in ToB?
I did not know there were grenades in ToB. Nevertheless, medieval grenades and launchers are not far fetch - maybe because I know grenades and explosive launchers existed in ancient China:
I have also never personally experienced slavery, communism, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, World War II, or the Vietnam Conflict. That does not mean I do not know anything about them and am not quaified to talk about them.
I want fun games that don't take themselves too seriously all the time. I know I'm not alone in that. Why do you think so many games employ humour? People like it.
I do not know if Beamdog was trying to be funny. If they were, then apparently they have just learned that many people find those particular issues (transgender and gamergate) to be divisive and offensive instead of funny. So they have failed at the attempt to employ humor.
I have also never personally experienced slavery, communism, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, World War II, or the Vietnam Conflict. That does not mean I do not know anything about them and am not quaified to talk about them.
We're talking about whether breaking the fourth wall ruins the experience of the game. You can talk about anything you want, but in this case, if you haven't actually experienced it, how do you know it ruins the game? Otherwise it looks like you're hating on the game reflexively.
We're talking about whether breaking the fourth wall ruins the experience of the game. You can talk about anything you want, but in this case, if you haven't actually experienced it, how do you know it ruins the game? Otherwise it looks like you're hating on the game reflexively.
Back in the 1990s/early 2000s, I had to tolerate it because that was how video games were. The forth-wall breaking was an annoyance, but it was minor and subtle enough for me to tolerate it. We have moved beyond it because storytelling in video games has advanced, improved and progresssed during the past decade. Frankly, I do not want to go back to that... I would rather avoid a video game that has "forth-wall breaking" unless it is titled "Deadpool".
Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Just keep improving the game. It will silence the unsatisfied customers. Keep in mind unsatisfied customers are always louder than satisfied.
I would rather avoid a video game that has "forth-wall breaking" unless it is titled "Deadpool".
So why are you on the Siege of Dragonspear forum arguing about it instead of avoiding it? I don't like driving games, but you don't find me on the Burnout message boards asking why they haven't made a tactical RPG with fourth-wall breaking humour because that's what I think people really want... If Baldur's Gate isn't the right game for you, that's cool man - it's a shame because it's an awesome series and I'd love more people to enjoy it, but please don't get mad because other people like it when you don't.
"I find the controversy ridiculous. Yes, we have a transgendered character. I know a number of transgendered people and they are genuine, wonderful humans. Yes, we also have a character who cracks a joke about ethics. The original Baldur’s Gate had a whole sequence about the Bob Newhart show. If this generates controversy it makes a sad statement about the world we live in. As for my post on the forums, I merely asked people who were enjoying the game to share their positive feedback. I know our fans can become engrossed in their enjoyment and I really don’t want potential fans to miss out on the series because of protest reviews by small minded individuals.
As for Amber’s interview, I also believe in strong female characters and I feel she did an excellent job bringing dimension and interest to Safana with her writing in Siege of Dragonspear. Her “Too bad” comment, I chalk up to a long day of interviews, having personally done such interviews."
Comments
And again it is not that there is a transgender character in there but rather how this character is implemented. Again integrate these kind of characters but not to set a political message in it. Again make it believable, and not as a token character.
This: "Hello I am a merchant and by the way here is my life story because I am trans and I need to explain it to every one" is not only bad writing but also disrespectful. Further more this character is protected by the game. Your answers are:
Oh that is an interesting story tell me more
Oh that is an interesting story let my buy something
Oh that is an interesting story goodbye.
If you can normally threaten NPC you should be able to do it here too. Again Trans people do not need to be protected they need to be treated like everyone else.
How to do it right? There is a cross dresser in Witcher 3 which is really good written and also a merchant. You should take a look here for example.
Also, just seen on Reddit how determined some people are to hurt Beamdog over being "SJWs" and it's really upset me. Beamdog have done a great job on upgrading and expanding the games, and they don't deserve to be the victims of a witch-hunt like this.
What I don't understand is that if you prefer your games to be totally serious, why would you get the new entry in a series that has always used a portion of humour, and then complain when it continues that trend?
BTW, you were drawing a strawman by equating humor with breaking the forth wall.
BTW, there are ambiguous, elegant, subtle ways to break the forth wall, and then there are awkward, clumsy ways. Based on what I've read about how Siege of Dragonspear broke the forth wall, it seemed to have done it in a fairly awkward, clumsy and intrusive in-your-face manner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade#History
Google "medieval grenades" or "ancient grenades". I have also never personally experienced slavery, communism, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, World War II, or the Vietnam Conflict. That does not mean I do not know anything about them and am not quaified to talk about them.
I do not know if Beamdog was trying to be funny. If they were, then apparently they have just learned that many people find those particular issues (transgender and gamergate) to be divisive and offensive instead of funny. So they have failed at the attempt to employ humor.
As for my post on the forums, I merely asked people who were enjoying the game to share their positive feedback. I know our fans can become engrossed in their enjoyment and I really don’t want potential fans to miss out on the series because of protest reviews by small minded individuals.
As for Amber’s interview, I also believe in strong female characters and I feel she did an excellent job bringing dimension and interest to Safana with her writing in Siege of Dragonspear. Her “Too bad” comment, I chalk up to a long day of interviews, having personally done such interviews."
Regards,
-Trent
http://techraptor.net/content/baldurs-gate-siege-dragonspear-launches-controversy
So I know what your talking about?
gamersgate is?
SJW?
Then they picked a side and fired shots. With that Minsc line especially.
This is just the reaction.
I just wish they had left it alone and made a game. None of this would be happening.