I rarely post on boards but with all this negativity I felt compelled to say something.
Well I like the game, I'm happy with the writing, the UI is far better than the original 1998 game, the odd bug does not bother me, and political gender issues are everywhere these days in TV/films so it does not bother me.
Great game, very enjoyable, and good job to Beamdog.
For someone relatively unfamiliar with the whole Gamergate controversy, what exactly are you all fans of? From what I've read, most of their "work" seems to be harassment, including death and rape threats. Am I missing something here?
I would highly suggest looking into whether or not those claims were substantiated, and also whether or not any work was done to connect said harassment to actual supporters of GG. To date, neither the police nor FBI have established any link between them. It should come off as very suspicious that when a group says they are going after the media, that the same media never substantiates it's claims against said group and uses them as the villain for absolutely anything they can think of.
Thing is, we can point to examples backed by proof of the media being corrupt, as that has been our focus and goal from the start. We have even created a database specifically for this, at deepfreeze.it which keeps track of many of the issues. To date, I don't believe I have seen a single news site offer any proof to back their claims against us. Nor will they take interviews or stories from our side, ever. Do the math.
Minsc's line may be a joke, but the joke is that you'd have to be brain damaged to support gamergate (and even then you should sound unconvinced). The base assumption is insulting, it's sincerely insulting and it's deliberately insulting. This isn't meant to make the player laugh, it's meant to make the player feel smug (if he supports your identity politics) or unwelcome (if he supports gamergate). It's not about comedy, it's about exclusion.
This is particularly unforgivable because gamergate was about defending gamers from a press that said that gaming was devoid of all cultural value, and that gamers (not gamergaters, but gamers as a whole) were like something scraped off the bottom of a petri dish. Baldur's Gate would stand to me as one of the examples of how worthwhile this hobby can be, and it's a game I grew up playing; So seeing a company use one of its most beloved characters a vehicle to tell me that I'm dumb for not believing that liking Baldur's Gate makes me a bad person is just extremely disappointing.
It also seems to be consistent with the rest of the game's content, which is riddled with identity politics that I find quite distasteful.
The leader of BeamDog begging forum-members for positive reviews LMAO Never seen such a thing before. shame on you!
Please re-read the post. It was far from begging, it was suggesting that IF people enjoy the game then they should share that opinion because trolls are purposely tanking review scores without even having played the game.
Honest reviews about the game are important to a lot of people and seeing them flooded with trollish crybaby nonsense has to be disheartening. It certainly is to me.
The community should be celebrating this achievement instead everyone is fending off trolls and fighting amongst ourselves over the smallest thing that really has no effect on the actual game or storyline in any way. As I've said before, I'm very sad it has come to this... I was hoping for good times and fun as we all delved into this new adventure together, but alas, we get this...
I completely agree about too few dialogue options. Just add more, where the transgender character can be killed. It's a comic relief, since I've grown to support LGBT movement over the years, becoming more tolerant. Just add us some more dialogue branches, where the anti-LGBT ("gamergaters") can try and explore on their worldviews; if nothing will change their mind, give an option to kill the NPC. Maybe that will make them feel ashamed. Or wont.
Additional dialog braches are always good (if you bring senstive topics on the table, you must allow certain kind of debate about them). However an option to kill the said npc because the player doesn't like that character's sexuality? How about not providing such an hatefull solution. I think such option (kill npc) would only offer these kind of people the easy way out of the uncomfortable situation.
Perhaps if people had been civil and rational since the day 1, something like that could have been suggested with good intentions, but now after seeing all this hate and vitriol? I truly hope that Beamdog does not back down.
I completely agree about too few dialogue options. Just add more, where the transgender character can be killed. It's a comic relief, since I've grown to support LGBT movement over the years, becoming more tolerant. Just add us some more dialogue branches, where the anti-LGBT ("gamergaters") can try and explore on their worldviews; if nothing will change their mind, give an option to kill the NPC. Maybe that will make them feel ashamed. Or wont.
Additional dialog braches are always good, but an option to kill the said npc because the player doesn't like that character's sexuality? How about not providing such an hatefull solution.
Perhaps if people had been civil and rational since the day 1, something like that could have been suggested with good intentions, but now after seeing all this hate and vitriol? I truly hope that Beamdog does not back down.
Have you learned nothing from Bioware history with Priestly, Hepler and that volus who banned everyone(forgot his name)? Have you forgot that GG forced Ellen Pao to abdicate, paved the way for Hulk against Gawker victory and working on bringing Trump into office? Are you sure Beamdog can afford to have such enemies? I say Beamdog needs to start talking with its right-wing customers soon, and desist on presenting liberal values as the only acceptable norm.
I completely agree about too few dialogue options. Just add more, where the transgender character can be killed. It's a comic relief, since I've grown to support LGBT movement over the years, becoming more tolerant. Just add us some more dialogue branches, where the anti-LGBT ("gamergaters") can try and explore on their worldviews; if nothing will change their mind, give an option to kill the NPC. Maybe that will make them feel ashamed. Or wont.
Additional dialog braches are always good (if you bring senstive topics on the table, you must allow certain kind of debate about them). However an option to kill the said npc because the player doesn't like that character's sexuality? How about not providing such an hatefull solution. I think it would offer these kind of people only the easy way out of uncomfortable situation.
Perhaps if people had been civil and rational since the day 1, something like that could have been suggested with good intentions, but now after seeing all this hate and vitriol? I truly hope that Beamdog does not back down.
Okay, backing this down a bit: how about adding this "kill the NPC for difference of opinion"-option _only_ if the character is Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil? We already have slavery and a myriad of other sinful topics in the game, why not throw killing a new gender in? We have no problem with males, females and the like (did everyone forget the race war, where gnomes insult humans, and vice versa, and so on and so on?).
Okay, backing this down a bit: how about adding this "kill the NPC for difference of opinion"-option _only_ if the character is Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil? We already have slavery and a myriad of other sinful topics in the game, why not throw killing a new gender in? We have no problem with males, females and the like (did everyone forget the race war, where gnomes insult humans, and vice versa, and so on and so on?).
You know what? I've got it. I've got the solution that will prove, once and for all, where people really stand on this.
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
Okay, backing this down a bit: how about adding this "kill the NPC for difference of opinion"-option _only_ if the character is Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil? We already have slavery and a myriad of other sinful topics in the game, why not throw killing a new gender in? We have no problem with males, females and the like (did everyone forget the race war, where gnomes insult humans, and vice versa, and so on and so on?).
You know what? I've got it. I've got the solution that will prove, once and for all, where people really stand on this.
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
In this case we'd need to provide everyone who is killable through dialogue in both games with these powers, otherwise why the special treatment for Mizhena? Are you arguing that all trans characters and Mizhena in particular are good and no violence against them should ever be possible? What if Mizhena is in fact Irenicus spy?
I completely agree about too few dialogue options. Just add more, where the transgender character can be killed. It's a comic relief, since I've grown to support LGBT movement over the years, becoming more tolerant. Just add us some more dialogue branches, where the anti-LGBT ("gamergaters") can try and explore on their worldviews; if nothing will change their mind, give an option to kill the NPC. Maybe that will make them feel ashamed. Or wont.
Additional dialog braches are always good, but an option to kill the said npc because the player doesn't like that character's sexuality? How about not providing such an hatefull solution.
Perhaps if people had been civil and rational since the day 1, something like that could have been suggested with good intentions, but now after seeing all this hate and vitriol? I truly hope that Beamdog does not back down.
Have you learned nothing from Bioware history with Priestly, Hepler and that volus who banned everyone(forgot his name)? Have you forgot that GG forced Ellen Pao to abdicate, paved the way for Hulk against Gawker victory and working on bringing Trump into office? Are you sure Beamdog can afford to have such enemies? I say Beamdog needs to start talking with its right-wing customers soon, and desist on presenting liberal values as the only acceptable norm.
Bioware forums are a really nasty place and I don't visit there. Too many loyal biodrones for my liking if i put it kindly and not much freedom of speech . I've heard those stories ofcourse and I don't think banning people just because of a different opinion is a right way to go.
I don't really agree all what Bioware does. Last game I really enjoyed was dragon age orgins. DA2 was god awfull and DA:i left me just cold. Mass effects were fun though. Writing in Mass effect series was generally quite good. The ending of me3 had some issues ofcourse
I don't know much about those bioware scandalds you speak of. I do remember Hepler's interview being quite weird. I understand people getting upset when a game writer says of not liking videogames, but then people overreacted quite much. Ofcourse Hepler trolled a bit too as I recall, but again it was basicly a storm in a waterglass.
I agree that when presenting senstive social issues, there has to be right ammount of balance so that player doesn't feel like he is force fed some political agenda, but aren't we talking about just one npc here and one line of dialog. But maybe they could add more dialog options there. I'm not dead against that if it really upsets people so much.
Okay, backing this down a bit: how about adding this "kill the NPC for difference of opinion"-option _only_ if the character is Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil? We already have slavery and a myriad of other sinful topics in the game, why not throw killing a new gender in? We have no problem with males, females and the like (did everyone forget the race war, where gnomes insult humans, and vice versa, and so on and so on?).
You know what? I've got it. I've got the solution that will prove, once and for all, where people really stand on this.
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
You've gone full idiot, sorry. By your logic, no Evil can be commited without Arkanis showing up. I feel sad about your feverish and vehement defense of a "delicate flower of the day" which is a LGBT-character; defense so absurd, you wont let ANY character kill it for ANY reason.
I'm done with this topic, the amount of crazy here is disgusting.
In this case we'd need to provide everyone who is killable through dialogue in both games with these powers, otherwise why the special treatment for Mizhena? Are you arguing that all trans characters and Mizhena in particular are good and no violence against them should ever be possible? What if Mizhena is in fact Irenicus spy?
If you're going around killing every single NPC in the game, then sure, you don't need justification to attack any particular character (and, as has already been demonstrated, you can kill Mizhena if you choose to).
But if you agree with what @lazutu seems to be saying, that you should be able to kill Mizhena specifically but not have that "Evil" logic apply to anyone else in the game... well. I'm sure you can see how that would support the view that you're complaining about the game not giving you a reason to single out the only transgender character in the franchise as a target for violence.
“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. Even if there hadn't been LGBT content in SOD, this statement is reason not to buy SoD. Many social justice wariors are trying to fix problems which never existed and Amber Scott is one of them. Only mentally ill person can label original Baldur's Gate as sexist. And even if original Baldur's Gate had been a little sexis millions of people loved the game. Baldur's Gate is something like Holly Grail of RPG for many people including me. You should treat such franchise with great respect. Abusing Baldur's Gate to push SJW agenda is sacrilege. Reviews of SoD should be warning example for all social justic wariors trying push their agenda into RPGs. Many RPG players including me hate social justice wariors and if writers start their social justice war it can have tragic consequences for the whole franchise.
And meanwhile, bugs stay unfixed, and bad reviews BECAUSE OF BUGS, broken multi and other "placeholder" still add to the sites...
Uh... isn't that the fault of the people who are flooding Steam, GOG and this forum with complaint threads about two lines of dialogue rather than talk about bugs, broken multi and placeholders?
Uh... isn't that the fault of the people who are flooding Steam, GOG and this forum with complaints about two lines of dialogue rather than talk about bugs, broken multi and placeholders?
Even if that's true, the above poster is complaining that that's not the focus of discussion right now - to which I say, take it up with the people who are prioritizing those two lines of dialogue instead, since they're the ones diverting attention from the aforementioned bugs.
Even if that's true, the above poster is complaining that that's not the focus of discussion right now - to which I say, take it up with the people who are prioritizing those two lines of dialogue instead, since they're the ones diverting attention from the aforementioned bugs.
The most helpful upvoted reviews on Steam which are negative point out the technical flaws in the game and/or non-functioning multiplayer as a big reason they don't recommend it. People are giving exposure to reviews highlighting the game's flaws.
It's not uncommon for a new release to be buggy, and it does take time to get a patch out. I think people are aware of the game's buggy state and I don't think it's necessary to talk about that and only that until the patch is delivered. You can't blame people who want to discuss the game's content and tone for its technical imperfections.
@shawne this discussion went wrong just from the beginning from the topic starter. Trent Oster showed himself nothing better thn the trolls, asking for spaming psitive reviews.
First off let me say that I am probably the stereotypical BG player. I'm a 37 year old male, have been playing this game since the day it was released in 1998, and it remains (and likely always will remain) my favorite game, of any genre, of all time.
I don't own SoD yet ONLY because I don't have any characters ready for the new content. I plan on purchasing it the day I have a playthrough ready for the new campaign. What I'm reading here however, is disconcerting to say the least...
What makes Baldur's Gate stand the test of time for me (and I'm sure many others) is the great characters and the superb writing. Some of the best examples I can think of are as follows: (I may paraphrase slightly, and minor non-plot relevant spoilers follow)
1. One of the player responses to the nobleman at the Arm who gives you the golden pantaloons is as follows:
"Stow your laundry fool! I am neither maid nor mother to any fop such as you!"
2. A player response to Officer Vai in the Jovial Juggler is as follows:
"I care not a wit for you're name or title Officer Vai, the Flaming Fist may be the law in these parts, but the extent of that law ends within reach of my blade."
These are two of my favorite lines of the entire series, and a perfect example of how important diverse and well written dialogue choices are for immersion in not only the game world, but in your character concept as well. Almost every review or comment I have seen on SoD so far is ripping it a new one for the poor writing. Please...say it isn't so.
On to the idea that BG was/is a sexist game...sigh.
I mean are you serious? Really? BG has some very strong and independent female characters.
1. Branwen: A warrior-priest of Tempus who was ostracized by the people of her home community for wanting to be a priest. Instead of conforming like a "good little girl" she strikes out on her own to further the agenda of her god, even though this was obviously not the path of least resistance. Not only that, but she takes a stand against Tranzig when she finds him to be a villain, even though it ends up with her being turned to stone.
2. Shar-Teel: She takes crap from absolutely no one, backs down from nothing, and shows no fear. As a side note some of the banter between her and Branwen is very, very good, and further goes to dispel the idiotic notion that BG was/is a sexist game.
3. Jaheria: Another poster in this thread has already eloquently extolled the virtues of this strong female character so I need not bother.
These are just three examples. I'm of the opinion that this writer at Beamdog, Amber (I only just now know of her from reading this thread) is seeing what she wants to see instead of what really is. Then again, as I stated, I'm a 37 year old man, so what the hell do I know about the women's lib agenda or the sexism women face in the world on a daily basis?
All that being said, IT'S A FRIGGIN VIDEO GAME, and an almost 20 year old one at that. In a hostile world full of evil magic and daily strife for the common person I doubt anyone gave a wet shite about things like sexism and gender politics. As other posters have already stated, make your own game and write your characters anyway you want (which apparently you have for the new NPC's and I have no issue with that). Please, leave our beloved BG female characters and their personalities alone.
I did notice something odd when I rolled a new character the other day. It meant nothing at the time, but after reading this thread it makes sense. When selecting gender in vanilla it would show a description of each. Male would read: "Males of the realms can advance in any profession they chose, wizardry, thievery, or the arts of war." Female would read: "Females of the realms can excel in any profession they chose, and are easily the equal of their male counterparts in every skill or respect." Now both genders have the same description. This on it's own is nothing, and doesn't bother me in the least, but it sure lends credence to the notion that there is some fem/lib agenda being "pushed down our throats" from the folks at Beamdog.
In closing I will say that after further thought maybe I was wrong and there is some sexism at play in Baldur's Gate. Shar-Teel, whilst in the party will say a certain line over and over and over again... "Sometimes the smell of a man makes me sick to my stomach." Funny how it cuts both ways hu? Double standards are quite the bitch...
The most helpful upvoted reviews on Steam which are negative point out the technical flaws in the game and/or non-functioning multiplayer as a big reason they don't recommend it. People are giving exposure to reviews highlighting the game's flaws.
This is true. But it is also disingenuous to act as if a large quantity of those reviews aren't specifically talking about Mizhena, LGBT content, SJWs, Amber Scott, etc. (GOG being the perfect demonstration of this, since on that site you don't even have to own the game.) If the problem here is that criticisms of the game's technical state are being drowned out... well, they are. But not by Beamdog. They're not the ones screaming about two lines of dialogue. And those reviews, in turn, make it seem like any complaint about the game, however valid or based on gameplay quality, is sourced in kneejerk transphobia. (Again, that is how it appears, because of the rhetoric being used.)
So if you want there to be an honest discussion about bugs, multiplayer and other functions of SoD that aren't working right, shouldn't you be taking the Mizhena complaints to task for shifting attention away from the "real" problems?
this discussion went wrong just from the beginning from the topic starter. Trent Oster showed himself nothing better thn the trolls, asking for spaming psitive reviews.
Like I said on page 1, I don't think Trent should have done this. But at the very least, he's asking for people to review the entire game and no two lines of dialogue. Which any reviewer with the slightest sense of responsibility (or, dare I say it, "ethics in game journalism") should do. If someone gives SoD a 0 because of Mizhena, thus arguing that there is absolutely nothing good about the game in any way, shape or form, then at minimum Trent has the right to ask others to present their own counterpoints.
Okay, backing this down a bit: how about adding this "kill the NPC for difference of opinion"-option _only_ if the character is Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil? We already have slavery and a myriad of other sinful topics in the game, why not throw killing a new gender in? We have no problem with males, females and the like (did everyone forget the race war, where gnomes insult humans, and vice versa, and so on and so on?).
You know what? I've got it. I've got the solution that will prove, once and for all, where people really stand on this.
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
Now that is funny I don't really have strong feelings about this issue even though I may be defending Beamdog a bit here. As far as I'm concerned people can kill women, men, children, animals, monsters and even Gorion in their own game if they so desire
What really bothers me is how people demand that Beamdog should not write certain kind of content. And next they demand that Beamdog should modify the said content because they find it offensive. Its a slipperly slope argument. For instance Obsdian Software was forced to modify their game because of a similar outcry. I find it somewhat funny how its the tradional value people who're just demanding the same thing here
And I think it is silly to give a game bad rating simply because of one scene or some random thing Minsc says. But enogh about that. Lets hope that Beamdog fixes the UI and BUGS soon.
"There are absolutely nothing supporting that GamerGate has done any of the death/rape threats or any of all the bad things they've been accused of doing"
*Continues off to write lengthy negative reviews of how a horrible piece of shit the game is because of a transgender person and one easter egg line Minsc has*
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
Well, actually, that would be a huge improvement compared to how it is currently handled, where you have hamfistedly written token character just itching to spout the contentious trans-activist party line at you and all you can do in reponse is essentially saying "How nice".
Comments
Well I like the game, I'm happy with the writing, the UI is far better than the original 1998 game, the odd bug does not bother me, and political gender issues are everywhere these days in TV/films so it does not bother me.
Great game, very enjoyable, and good job to Beamdog.
Thing is, we can point to examples backed by proof of the media being corrupt, as that has been our focus and goal from the start. We have even created a database specifically for this, at deepfreeze.it which keeps track of many of the issues. To date, I don't believe I have seen a single news site offer any proof to back their claims against us. Nor will they take interviews or stories from our side, ever. Do the math.
Never seen such a thing before.
shame on you!
This is particularly unforgivable because gamergate was about defending gamers from a press that said that gaming was devoid of all cultural value, and that gamers (not gamergaters, but gamers as a whole) were like something scraped off the bottom of a petri dish. Baldur's Gate would stand to me as one of the examples of how worthwhile this hobby can be, and it's a game I grew up playing; So seeing a company use one of its most beloved characters a vehicle to tell me that I'm dumb for not believing that liking Baldur's Gate makes me a bad person is just extremely disappointing.
It also seems to be consistent with the rest of the game's content, which is riddled with identity politics that I find quite distasteful.
Honest reviews about the game are important to a lot of people and seeing them flooded with trollish crybaby nonsense has to be disheartening. It certainly is to me.
The community should be celebrating this achievement instead everyone is fending off trolls and fighting amongst ourselves over the smallest thing that really has no effect on the actual game or storyline in any way. As I've said before, I'm very sad it has come to this... I was hoping for good times and fun as we all delved into this new adventure together, but alas, we get this...
Perhaps if people had been civil and rational since the day 1, something like that could have been suggested with good intentions, but now after seeing all this hate and vitriol? I truly hope that Beamdog does not back down.
So sure, Beamdog adds a dialogue option for Evil characters to attack Mizhena. She then promptly calls upon the power of Lathander and incinerates you in an insta-kill cutscene. Same as Arkanis Gath or Malchor Harpell in BG2. There's your agency, and its outcome. If this isn't actually about having the "freedom" to commit violence against a trans character with no real-life consequences, you should be satisfied with that scenario, no?
I don't really agree all what Bioware does. Last game I really enjoyed was dragon age orgins. DA2 was god awfull and DA:i left me just cold. Mass effects were fun though. Writing in Mass effect series was generally quite good. The ending of me3 had some issues ofcourse
I don't know much about those bioware scandalds you speak of. I do remember Hepler's interview being quite weird. I understand people getting upset when a game writer says of not liking videogames, but then people overreacted quite much. Ofcourse Hepler trolled a bit too as I recall, but again it was basicly a storm in a waterglass.
I agree that when presenting senstive social issues, there has to be right ammount of balance so that player doesn't feel like he is force fed some political agenda, but aren't we talking about just one npc here and one line of dialog. But maybe they could add more dialog options there. I'm not dead against that if it really upsets people so much.
I'm done with this topic, the amount of crazy here is disgusting.
But if you agree with what @lazutu seems to be saying, that you should be able to kill Mizhena specifically but not have that "Evil" logic apply to anyone else in the game... well. I'm sure you can see how that would support the view that you're complaining about the game not giving you a reason to single out the only transgender character in the franchise as a target for violence.
Oh forget it.
I was going to compose a post about all this, but on reflection I have better things to do.
Suffice to say that even after all these years of the internet I can still be surprised and apalled by the opinions and attitudes of some.
Even if there hadn't been LGBT content in SOD, this statement is reason not to buy SoD.
Many social justice wariors are trying to fix problems which never existed and Amber Scott is one of them.
Only mentally ill person can label original Baldur's Gate as sexist.
And even if original Baldur's Gate had been a little sexis millions of people loved the game.
Baldur's Gate is something like Holly Grail of RPG for many people including me. You should treat such franchise with great respect. Abusing Baldur's Gate to push SJW agenda is sacrilege.
Reviews of SoD should be warning example for all social justic wariors trying push their agenda into RPGs. Many RPG players including me hate social justice wariors and if writers start their social justice war it can have tragic consequences for the whole franchise.
this discussion went wrong just from the beginning from the topic starter.
Trent Oster showed himself nothing better thn the trolls, asking for spaming psitive reviews.
First off let me say that I am probably the stereotypical BG player. I'm a 37 year old male, have been playing this game since the day it was released in 1998, and it remains (and likely always will remain) my favorite game, of any genre, of all time.
I don't own SoD yet ONLY because I don't have any characters ready for the new content. I plan on purchasing it the day I have a playthrough ready for the new campaign. What I'm reading here however, is disconcerting to say the least...
What makes Baldur's Gate stand the test of time for me (and I'm sure many others) is the great characters and the superb writing. Some of the best examples I can think of are as follows: (I may paraphrase slightly, and minor non-plot relevant spoilers follow)
1. One of the player responses to the nobleman at the Arm who gives you the golden pantaloons is as follows:
"Stow your laundry fool! I am neither maid nor mother to any fop such as you!"
2. A player response to Officer Vai in the Jovial Juggler is as follows:
"I care not a wit for you're name or title Officer Vai, the Flaming Fist may be the law in these parts, but the extent of that law ends within reach of my blade."
These are two of my favorite lines of the entire series, and a perfect example of how important diverse and well written dialogue choices are for immersion in not only the game world, but in your character concept as well. Almost every review or comment I have seen on SoD so far is ripping it a new one for the poor writing. Please...say it isn't so.
On to the idea that BG was/is a sexist game...sigh.
I mean are you serious? Really? BG has some very strong and independent female characters.
1. Branwen: A warrior-priest of Tempus who was ostracized by the people of her home community for wanting to be a priest. Instead of conforming like a "good little girl" she strikes out on her own to further the agenda of her god, even though this was obviously not the path of least resistance. Not only that, but she takes a stand against Tranzig when she finds him to be a villain, even though it ends up with her being turned to stone.
2. Shar-Teel: She takes crap from absolutely no one, backs down from nothing, and shows no fear. As a side note some of the banter between her and Branwen is very, very good, and further goes to dispel the idiotic notion that BG was/is a sexist game.
3. Jaheria: Another poster in this thread has already eloquently extolled the virtues of this strong female character so I need not bother.
These are just three examples. I'm of the opinion that this writer at Beamdog, Amber (I only just now know of her from reading this thread) is seeing what she wants to see instead of what really is. Then again, as I stated, I'm a 37 year old man, so what the hell do I know about the women's lib agenda or the sexism women face in the world on a daily basis?
All that being said, IT'S A FRIGGIN VIDEO GAME, and an almost 20 year old one at that. In a hostile world full of evil magic and daily strife for the common person I doubt anyone gave a wet shite about things like sexism and gender politics. As other posters have already stated, make your own game and write your characters anyway you want (which apparently you have for the new NPC's and I have no issue with that). Please, leave our beloved BG female characters and their personalities alone.
I did notice something odd when I rolled a new character the other day. It meant nothing at the time, but after reading this thread it makes sense. When selecting gender in vanilla it would show a description of each. Male would read: "Males of the realms can advance in any profession they chose, wizardry, thievery, or the arts of war." Female would read: "Females of the realms can excel in any profession they chose, and are easily the equal of their male counterparts in every skill or respect." Now both genders have the same description. This on it's own is nothing, and doesn't bother me in the least, but it sure lends credence to the notion that there is some fem/lib agenda being "pushed down our throats" from the folks at Beamdog.
In closing I will say that after further thought maybe I was wrong and there is some sexism at play in Baldur's Gate. Shar-Teel, whilst in the party will say a certain line over and over and over again... "Sometimes the smell of a man makes me sick to my stomach." Funny how it cuts both ways hu? Double standards are quite the bitch...
So if you want there to be an honest discussion about bugs, multiplayer and other functions of SoD that aren't working right, shouldn't you be taking the Mizhena complaints to task for shifting attention away from the "real" problems? Like I said on page 1, I don't think Trent should have done this. But at the very least, he's asking for people to review the entire game and no two lines of dialogue. Which any reviewer with the slightest sense of responsibility (or, dare I say it, "ethics in game journalism") should do. If someone gives SoD a 0 because of Mizhena, thus arguing that there is absolutely nothing good about the game in any way, shape or form, then at minimum Trent has the right to ask others to present their own counterpoints.
What really bothers me is how people demand that Beamdog should not write certain kind of content. And next they demand that Beamdog should modify the said content because they find it offensive. Its a slipperly slope argument. For instance Obsdian Software was forced to modify their game because of a similar outcry. I find it somewhat funny how its the tradional value people who're just demanding the same thing here
And I think it is silly to give a game bad rating simply because of one scene or some random thing Minsc says. But enogh about that. Lets hope that Beamdog fixes the UI and BUGS soon.
*Continues off to write lengthy negative reviews of how a horrible piece of shit the game is because of a transgender person and one easter egg line Minsc has*
YEAAAAAAAAH about that...
So yeah, please patch this in.