Regarding Safana, maybe Beamdog should have stated that they decided to simply flesh out Safana rather than "correct" anything about her given how she was such a flat character in BG1 with hardly any personality to begin with.
A wrong choice of words. Thats all.
I personally like how Safana was handled in SoD though
What a silly and unwise move! Asking people to post postive reviews just to outnumber the few negative reviews? It backfires. More trolls pop up like mushrooms and seemingly enjoy (or take strength from) upvoting the negative reviews and posting their own brief negative reviews now, which don't tell anything new. It is a war you cannot win. There is so much hatred on the Internet. A new dimension of hyperbole. I had hoped something like the Pillars of Eternity Firedorn Lightbringer incident would not repeat, but yes, such crusaders are out there, and they love fighting outside of the role-playing world.
Beamdog better puts energy into fixing the embarrassing, game-breaking bugs, or else more trolls will pop up and find other reasons to criticise this game.
Edit: Steam forum is flooded with crap posts. A major uproar. I will avoid it like the plague for some time.
Its one thing to send a political message by creating new content that fits the original feel and tone, and its completely something different when you take original content and start changing it to better represent your own political agenda. I mean, what is next? Will they make Minsc gay to push forward gay rights? Jesus... i better not give Beamdog any ideas. Yikes.
The problem with that argument is that anyone involved with the original content, on any level, is either working for Beamdog and had an active hand in shaping those changes, or is working for Wizards of the Coast, who signed off on every single thing in SoD. If this is what they want that content to be now, who are you to say differently? Your choice is still the same: buy it, or don't. That's the extent of your ability to influence what Beamdog does.
This is sad but they need a pr person to avoid interview blunders and secure more critic reviews on or near release day. Actual critic reviews would drown out these manipulators.
The simple fact of the matter is that BG1 is almost 20 years old. It's going to have some stuff in it that we might find a bit uncool these days. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that as long as we remember that it doesn't automatically make the game itself bad.
@Belfaldurnik it makes ABSOLUTE sense. I never make reviews out of lazyness, but the ones I've read are just too exagerated. 0 points? Zero bloody points for SoD? That is in NO way a normal review.
Trent Oster said:
"If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review"
Didn't say put a "10". It's a simple call to lazy people like me that like/love the game but never put reviews online. This time, we should - for the sake of any future IE games that we want to have! (I sure do, and I want them to follow and improve upon their SoD approach!)
Bottom line: I do not want my medieval fantasy RPG to ever mention transgender, or gamergate, or Donald Trump, or Feel the Bern, or Kim Kardashian, or Taytay's girl squad, or DC or Marvel superheroes, or the hook-up culture on Tinder, or Fifty Shades of Gay, or modern social justice politics, or anything that is so completely out of place in a medieval fantasy setting. It is not funny or endearing. It is breaking immersion, contrived and annyong.
This is absolutely fine and makes perfect sense, but dude, the whole series is full of playful jabs and references to pop culture. Out of curiosity, what do you feel about World of Warcraft? That game is also completely riddled with references to pop culture.
I can absolutely respect the fact that you feel this breaks the immersion and that you want your epic hardcore fantasy genre to be completely free from all these references, but I really don't think this game is for you then.
So we're just dealing with flat-out lies now? Is that where we're at? Because those GOG and Steam reviews, and the forum threads here, are time-stamped. There's a very clear chain of events, and no amount of tin foil theory is going to change how it actually went down.
That was unnecessarily aggressive and personal about what is potentially a valid point. The majority of reviews ON STEAM before this fiasco were about the poor performance, not the issues being made in this thread. Trent's post has caused far more negativity about the LGBT stuff than existed before it.
They should have avoided criticising BG and made clear they were deepening all the characters. BG1 was filled with quirky one line trope npcs and that was justification enough to improve things. However noway does this excuse these gg people that are posting fake reviews.
So we're just dealing with flat-out lies now? Is that where we're at? Because those GOG and Steam reviews, and the forum threads here, are time-stamped. There's a very clear chain of events, and no amount of tin foil theory is going to change how it actually went down.
That was unnecessarily aggressive and personal about what is potentially a valid point. The majority of reviews ON STEAM before this fiasco were about the poor performance, not the issues being made in this thread. Trent's post has caused far more negativity about the LGBT stuff than existed before it.
Not that I am calling you a liar, but some connective proof would serve you well.
Shawne has a... crass way of dealing with people, from what I've seen, which is unfortunate, but I think he means well enough...
Its one thing to send a political message by creating new content that fits the original feel and tone, and its completely something different when you take original content and start changing it to better represent your own political agenda. I mean, what is next? Will they make Minsc gay to push forward gay rights? Jesus... i better not give Beamdog any ideas. Yikes.
The problem with that argument is that anyone involved with the original content, on any level, is either working for Beamdog and had an active hand in shaping those changes, or is working for Wizards of the Coast, who signed off on every single thing in SoD. If this is what they want that content to be now, who are you to say differently? Your choice is still the same: buy it, or don't. That's the extent of your ability to influence what Beamdog does.
Do excuse my bluntness, but I do believe I have the right to express my worry regarding the changes to already established characters, especially since the writer is an open SJW who considers original content to be "problematic". I dont believe I am overstepping any boundaries here.
That was unnecessarily aggressive and personal about what is potentially a valid point. The majority of reviews ON STEAM before this fiasco were about the poor performance, not the issues being made in this thread. Trent's post has caused far more negativity about the LGBT stuff than existed before it.
"Potentially" a valid point? You were wrong. You're still wrong, because if you actually bothered to get your facts straight instead of spreading bald-faced lies and disinformation, you'd see that the first reviews on GOG were about Mizhena. Trent didn't start this thread until after the Gamergaters started crawling out of their slime pits to howl about SJWs again. Times, dates, it's all there. You just have to look. Or be ignorant, but don't complain about aggression afterwards.
@koteko I can read, but that is not how the haters understood Trent's call for action. They turn it into headlines, such as "Beamdog begging for positive reviews", which is pathetic, but aids them on their crusade. Now would be the entirely wrong time to post a postive review, since the war has begun. You would all too easily face trolls downvoting your review just to fight it, or ignoring it and eventually it will not be displayed as "recent" anymore and get buried beneath the newer negative reviews. Potential buyers either display the "most helpful" reviews or visit the discussion forum to ask for an opinion.
I find it extremely disturbting that such an influential writer on this game directly bashes it in an interview and then goes on to say "too bad", and directly admits to not give a damn what people think (ie: fans of the series, made by the company that employs her) and just stating that she hopes to do even more of this in the future.
I am so sick and tired of this constant extremist feminazi shit everywhere; "Jaheira was the nagging wife?" As someone else already mentioned, then Khalid was the stuttering idiot, but then again, he was a man, so Amber does not give a damn. Because only women are mistreated and everyone should know about it, so it is vital to let one's personal political world views into a nearly 20 year old beloved RPG franchise. What. The. Fuck. She has single handedly done so much damage to this launch, it is beyond me how she is still employed (and even defended). That interview is so disturbing and speaks for itself.
Do not hire someone who could give a shit about the game's history and fans, and would prioritize stuffing these political views into the game over actual writing that fits.
As for the transgender character, as so many has already stated; no one cares that there is a transgendered character, that's totally cool. It is the implementation and the fact that there is NO personality what so ever to it; I know two transgendered people in real life, and believe me, their personality is not just defined by that fact. Far, far from it. This is really being PC just to be PC. Amber even admits that she very conciously writes stuff to cover diversity. That shouldn't be a goal in itself; that is literally being diverse just to be diverse. That is shitty writing, and that is what you are seeing in the reviews, Trent.
And that brings me to the saddest of it all... That Trent, a guy I admired and looked up to, sits here and calls people who gives negative reviews because of shitty, shallow writing (which it is) "small minded". Wow. I am at a loss of words. Maybe you should realize that your writer has failed, instead of lashing out at your own fanbase. This will only make things sooo, sooo much worse.
I went from being so super excited about this release, to all these things combined, instead just leaving me this grim feeling in my stomach and shitty taste in my mouth. Bad writing is one thing, but calling reviewers small minded and not owing up to having made mistakes, wow... I would never have expected this kind of behavior from someone like Trent. Learn to take criticism, instead of just lashing back.
I hope that the Baldur's Gate IP gets handed over to someone else. Mind you, I was a big defender of the Enhanced Editions, and loved what you guys did with them, and I am a long time fan of Baldur's Gate (have the original cardboard box from 1998 on my shelf to this day), so I really, really wanted to root for you guys so bad. It gives me no joy to actually be able to word such a negative post as this is. I really wish things weren't so.
I... I don't really know what to say. I am a bit bewildered by all of this.
Something else to consider: Baldur's Gate is not a perfect, flawless game delivered to us from on high by flights of cherubim. I feel like some of you might have mistakenly thought it was.
Almost every review I've seen giving the game a 1 or 0 cite the LBGT content. They are giving it a 1 or 0 because they don't agree with the LBGT agenda. This is obvious for all to see.
There are also legitimate reviews out there that are not positive about the game, but the VAST majority are trolls attacking the game because they don't support the LBGT community. This is obvious. Quit pretending this isn't the case - you are not convincing anyone (not even yourself).
Just because people are opposed to politics being awkwardly crammed into a 20 year old game does not make them troll. That just makes them someone who wants a consistent experience without having unnecessary political bullshit put in just so that some jackass at the developer can feel "special".
If they are giving the entire game a 1 or 0 online simply because they don't like the LBGT content, they are trolls. Plain and simple.
Trent is asking us to review the game on metacritic because he wants the game to be represented as a game, not a political statement. In this, I don't think he is being desperate or unfair. He wants us to review the game on its merits as a GAME, not as fodder in some bullshit culture war. He is completely justified in this.
Do excuse my bluntness, but I do believe I have the right to express my worry regarding the changes to already established characters, especially since the writer is an open SJW who considers original content to be "problematic". I dont believe I am overstepping any boundaries here.
Overstepping? Not at all. But you're doing what GamerGaters do, which is go after the easy target rather than confront the real source of your problem. Amber Scott is a writer. Her scripts, her content, was produced by Beamdog. But the people in power, the ones who determine what is and is not to be done with this license, are Wizards of the Coast. And they approve.
Your issue isn't with one SJW writer. It's with a company that has made decisions about its own properties that you don't like. And you're SOL on that front, because WotC isn't going to turn on their people and the values they clearly share with Beamdog because a bunch of reactionaries played the game for nine minutes, heard the word "SJW agenda" and ran for the hills.
It is pretty obvious that the two of you are not going to convince each other one way or the other. The past four pages of this thread have essentially been the two of you saying the same things again and again. Maybe its better to just call it off?
Fortunately Screech was banned (good riddance), so our argument is over.
But my point remains!! Those who give the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 simply because it has some LBGT content are trolls. And bigoted trolls at that.
I find it extremely disturbting that such an influential writer on this game directly bashes it in an interview and then goes on to say "too bad", and directly admits to not give a damn what people think (ie: fans of the series, made by the company that employs her) and just stating that she hopes to do even more of this in the future.
I am so sick and tired of this constant extremist feminazi shit everywhere; "Jaheira was the nagging wife?" As someone else already mentioned, then Khalid was the stuttering idiot, but then again, he was a man, so Amber does not give a damn. Because only women are mistreated and everyone should know about it, so it is vital to let one's personal political world views into a nearly 20 year old beloved RPG franchise. What. The. Fuck. She has single handedly done so much damage to this launch, it is beyond me how she is still employed (and even defended). That interview is so disturbing and speaks for itself.
Do not hire someone who could give a shit about the game's history and fans, and would prioritize stuffing these political views into the game over actual writing that fits.
As for the transgender character, as so many has already stated; no one cares that there is a transgendered character, that's totally cool. It is the implementation and the fact that there is NO personality what so ever to it; I know two transgendered people in real life, and believe me, their personality is not just defined by that fact. Far, far from it. This is really being PC just to be PC. Amber even admits that she very conciously writes stuff to cover diversity. That shouldn't be a goal in itself; that is literally being diverse just to be diverse. That is shitty writing, and that is what you are seeing in the reviews, Trent.
And that brings me to the saddest of it all... That Trent, a guy I admired and looked up to, sits here and calls people who gives negative reviews because of shitty, shallow writing (which it is) "small minded". Wow. I am at a loss of words. Maybe you should realize that your writer has failed, instead of lashing out at your own fanbase. This will only make things sooo, sooo much worse.
I went from being so super excited about this release, to all these things combined, instead just leaving me this grim feeling in my stomach and shitty taste in my mouth. Bad writing is one thing, but calling reviewers small minded and not owing up to having made mistakes, wow... I would never have expected this kind of behavior from someone like Trent. Learn to take criticism, instead of just lashing back.
I hope that the Baldur's Gate IP gets handed over to someone else. Mind you, I was a big defender of the Enhanced Editions, and loved what you guys did with them, and I am a long time fan of Baldur's Gate (have the original cardboard box from 1998 on my shelf to this day), so I really, really wanted to root for you guys so bad. It gives me no joy to actually be able to word such a negative post as this is. I really wish things weren't so.
I... I don't really know what to say. I am a bit bewildered by all of this.
This is a prime example of someone without the guts to admit that they're a bigot, hiding behind 'but it's bad wriiiiitiiiiiing. You can't call us small minded wah wah!'. It isn't about writing. These idiots aren't deconstructing the narrative, or the technical aspects of the prose. They're making a reactionary score based on their own goddamn political ideologies. Fine, let them have those ideologies, who cares; but this NOT judging the game by its merits as a piece of entertainment. It is like giving War and goddamn Peace a 0 star review because you hate Russians.
I think this thread has done about as much good as it's ever going to.
If you haven't posted a review and you enjoyed the game enough to tell people about it, please do. You can also post a review if you didn't like the game, although obviously we would rather you enjoyed the game than not. All other discussion about the issue is moot.
Comments
A wrong choice of words. Thats all.
I personally like how Safana was handled in SoD though
What a silly and unwise move! Asking people to post postive reviews just to outnumber the few negative reviews? It backfires. More trolls pop up like mushrooms and seemingly enjoy (or take strength from) upvoting the negative reviews and posting their own brief negative reviews now, which don't tell anything new. It is a war you cannot win. There is so much hatred on the Internet. A new dimension of hyperbole. I had hoped something like the Pillars of Eternity Firedorn Lightbringer incident would not repeat, but yes, such crusaders are out there, and they love fighting outside of the role-playing world.
Beamdog better puts energy into fixing the embarrassing, game-breaking bugs, or else more trolls will pop up and find other reasons to criticise this game.
Edit: Steam forum is flooded with crap posts. A major uproar. I will avoid it like the plague for some time.
Trent Oster said:
"If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review"
Didn't say put a "10". It's a simple call to lazy people like me that like/love the game but never put reviews online. This time, we should - for the sake of any future IE games that we want to have! (I sure do, and I want them to follow and improve upon their SoD approach!)
I can absolutely respect the fact that you feel this breaks the immersion and that you want your epic hardcore fantasy genre to be completely free from all these references, but I really don't think this game is for you then.
Trent's post has caused far more negativity about the LGBT stuff than existed before it.
Shawne has a... crass way of dealing with people, from what I've seen, which is unfortunate, but I think he means well enough...
I am so sick and tired of this constant extremist feminazi shit everywhere; "Jaheira was the nagging wife?" As someone else already mentioned, then Khalid was the stuttering idiot, but then again, he was a man, so Amber does not give a damn. Because only women are mistreated and everyone should know about it, so it is vital to let one's personal political world views into a nearly 20 year old beloved RPG franchise. What. The. Fuck. She has single handedly done so much damage to this launch, it is beyond me how she is still employed (and even defended). That interview is so disturbing and speaks for itself.
Do not hire someone who could give a shit about the game's history and fans, and would prioritize stuffing these political views into the game over actual writing that fits.
As for the transgender character, as so many has already stated; no one cares that there is a transgendered character, that's totally cool. It is the implementation and the fact that there is NO personality what so ever to it; I know two transgendered people in real life, and believe me, their personality is not just defined by that fact. Far, far from it. This is really being PC just to be PC. Amber even admits that she very conciously writes stuff to cover diversity. That shouldn't be a goal in itself; that is literally being diverse just to be diverse. That is shitty writing, and that is what you are seeing in the reviews, Trent.
And that brings me to the saddest of it all... That Trent, a guy I admired and looked up to, sits here and calls people who gives negative reviews because of shitty, shallow writing (which it is) "small minded". Wow. I am at a loss of words. Maybe you should realize that your writer has failed, instead of lashing out at your own fanbase. This will only make things sooo, sooo much worse.
I went from being so super excited about this release, to all these things combined, instead just leaving me this grim feeling in my stomach and shitty taste in my mouth. Bad writing is one thing, but calling reviewers small minded and not owing up to having made mistakes, wow... I would never have expected this kind of behavior from someone like Trent. Learn to take criticism, instead of just lashing back.
I hope that the Baldur's Gate IP gets handed over to someone else. Mind you, I was a big defender of the Enhanced Editions, and loved what you guys did with them, and I am a long time fan of Baldur's Gate (have the original cardboard box from 1998 on my shelf to this day), so I really, really wanted to root for you guys so bad. It gives me no joy to actually be able to word such a negative post as this is. I really wish things weren't so.
I... I don't really know what to say. I am a bit bewildered by all of this.
Your issue isn't with one SJW writer. It's with a company that has made decisions about its own properties that you don't like. And you're SOL on that front, because WotC isn't going to turn on their people and the values they clearly share with Beamdog because a bunch of reactionaries played the game for nine minutes, heard the word "SJW agenda" and ran for the hills.
But my point remains!! Those who give the ENTIRE game a 1 or 0 simply because it has some LBGT content are trolls. And bigoted trolls at that.
If you haven't posted a review and you enjoyed the game enough to tell people about it, please do. You can also post a review if you didn't like the game, although obviously we would rather you enjoyed the game than not. All other discussion about the issue is moot.
Thread closed.