@Illydth My issue is about a partial refund as I bought BG:EE less than 8 hours before the sale and @elminster suggested I should give it a shot and ask for it.
@Topic at hand: I believe that it will die in a few days and we'll be able to give positive reviews without someone artificially tanking them down.
These days, people get upset all too easily. A single pet peeve bug, a single overpowered enemy that causes problems, and even if it could be defeated in Story Mode, the player jumps from "just purchased the game" to "100% frustrated and fed up". Feelings they hate. They take it personally. Overall the game has so much to offer, but that doesn't interest these people, since it is too easy to move on to some other game, even if only for half an hour before moving on to even another game.
When playing Pillars of Eternity and participating in the Steam forum regularly, I stopped counting how many players put more effort into bashing Obsidian after encountering the first few Shades and Phantoms, than taking a deep breath and playing the game more slowly and more thoughtfully. Rough times ahead.
In all fairness, I've definitely stopped playing a game before because of one bad moment. In Assassin's Creed Unity, for example, it was getting stuck in a hay bale that made me give up on finishing the story.
I can see people getting upset by one line and refusing to go any further, although it's an unfortunate reaction to have.
I will say--and I wasn't on the writing team for the game's dialogue--that Minsc's rare selection line doesn't read to me as an insult to GamerGate. It strikes me as being on the same level as Khalid's "MWEH HEH HEH--um, yes?" line: it's a rare moment of lucidity where we get to peek behind the curtain of the character's outward personality and hear their inner thoughts. If anything, it's Jim Cummings's reading of it that makes it sound directed, but again, that awareness is coming from my knowledge of the real-world context, and that may be knowledge that Jim doesn't share.
Does that mean the line is appropriate? That's not for me to say. Clearly it's offended some of the members of GamerGate (maybe more than some). It's up to each player to decide for themselves how they feel about the game's content.
Do I think it merits a campaign of negative reviews, or a coordinated attack on the Beamdog community? No. But that is precisely what is happening here. Maybe not everyone who's reacting the way they are is coming from the KotakuInAction subreddit, but that group is certainly the one driving the narrative.
So bear that in mind. And if you want to "fight back" against the narrative...talk about the game. Talk about the things that you liked, or the things that you wish could be better. Write a bug report. Write a feature request. Discuss your latest mod setup--or discuss your frustration at the Steam version's inability to handle mods.
Do what this community is best at, in other words: being a community.
"That score should be based on the actual game mechanics, playability and story, not what you perceive to be the games "agenda." A radical Islamist for instance would be horribly offended most likely that all the women were not in burkas and had roles of power, but that doesn't mean they should give the game a 0 on Metacritic, but should rather review based on how the game played. Tis sad indeed."
That really needed to be said, and quoted Thank you!
Worth a play for the BG/IWD fan, but average overall.
Combat is good (BG/IWD after all). Encounters are too. You expect this, though.
Writing/story is ok to mediocre (railroaded political activism being the mediocre part, and there's a lot more of it than just one tranny you can't say anything "bad" to). It's a step back from BG1, and nowhere near BG2. I consider ToB to be ok.
So, like ToB, but at a lower party level? Close, if it didn't have the political activism that is.
I put up my take on it. I care nothing at all for all this furor over purported gender/sexual identity agenda or politically correcting bollocks.
Overall an average addition to the BG saga but enough for me to want to see what Beamdog can do with a wholly original (Enhanced) Infinity Engine game (without being shackled to an existing plot or storyline).
I hope they learned a lesson from it. don't bring politics into a game, it's like playing with vipers for the sake of doing it. ironically two years ago, or maybe three people wouldn't have given a damn about mizhana.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. .
Yep, it's not just the hamfisted trans character or a single line, it's the general messaging from Beamdog that appears to tell potential buyers: "We're going to preach our SJW identity politics at you, whether you like it or not."
What particularly bothers me about Amber Scott's interview with Kotaku (of all places) is that she called BG1 "sexist" because some of the humor is at the expense of women. SO WHAT?! What are you telling us here, Amber? It's not OK to have humor at the expense of women, who just happen to be 50% of the population? I guess that, presumably, you may only have humor at the expense of the evil cis white heterosexual male oppressors that you cleary hate so much.
It's too bad that the evil cis white heterosexual male oppressors are probably 95% of your audience.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
The characters of Safana and Jaheira were not changed. The first Baldur's Gate had little to no character development, which reduced Safana and Jaheira to their respective tropes. In SoD, the goal of Amber and the other writers was to flesh out characters and give them dynamic personalities. Safana is still sensual and flirtatious, but it's more developed than her previous personality.
There's quite a bit of hamfisted feminist, socialist and racial activism; some of it railroaded, but some you have a choice in. Several female NPCs/companions and the banter they have between themselves and you, and the refugee crisis with a few of those quests.
They shouldn't have made it so explicit IMO. But, if they wanted, you should be given a choice in all the explicit activism they decided to put in.
No one wants to be lectured without having a say in the conclusion.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
Everyone's different, but I didn't really notice much, certainly not to the extreme and extent some seemingly think exists in the game.
Mizhena is just kinda there, and I didn't much care s/he was transgender at all. S/he sells healing supplies, that's all I needed to know lol (or cared about).
There's quite a bit of hamfisted feminist, socialist and racial activism; some of it railroaded, but some you have a choice in. Several female NPCs/companions and the banter they have between themselves and you, and the refugee crisis with a few of those quests.
They shouldn't have made it so explicit IMO. But, if they wanted, you should be given a choice in all the explicit activism they decided to put in.
No one wants to be lectured without having a say in the conclusion.
Have you played the game? Can you give some examples?
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
RedKnight, your hyperbolic statements include:
1. Siege of Dragonspear is filled with extremist SJW crap 2. Beamdog have filled Siege of Dragonspear with their own political agenda. 3. Beamdog are literally ruining everything they touch. 4. Beamdog has no respect for the original content.
These are your opinions, and you are of course entitled to them. But merely having opinions, and telling people what they are, doesn't make them true. And other people challenging your opinions doesn't make the challenger(s) part of the same conspiracy you see Beamdog a member of.
Play the game. Enjoy it. Tell people about it. Play it some more. Don't enjoy it. Tell people why. Don't play it again.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
The characters of Safana and Jaheira were not changed. The first Baldur's Gate had little to no character development, which reduced Safana and Jaheira to their respective tropes. In SoD, the goal of Amber and the other writers was to flesh out characters and give them dynamic personalities. Safana is still sensual and flirtatious, but it's more developed than her previous personality.
Ok, but how are they fleshed out? You still have BG2 as reference, you know? Is Jaheira from BG2 significantly different from Jaheira in BG SoD? For example, in BG2 i know she was strong, independent, and i remember in BG1 she was bossy to Khalid. How is she now? Have they turned her into one of those special snowflakes who sees women's issues, racism, and other SJW crap everywhere, or is she still Jaheira?
PS. I am just sick and tired hearing about this SJW crap at every turn. I know every writer will bring their own political biases into their work, but I am just sick and tired of the feminist SJW narrative being pushed in every movie, every book, every comic book, and now even 20 year old games. To say that it has been overused is an understatement. At this rate I am afraid to open up my fridge in fear that I will see a SJW screaming at me with their bullshit. That's why I am asking.
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
I'd say it's omnipresent.
They have a nice system of chat interjections that is mostly used throughout the opening of the game by the female NPCs to belittle and denigrate the male NPCs and the player character.
The men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians.
Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men (a thief that actually steals from you rather than just threatening you and getting turned into paste) or quick to secure "victim cred" by murderously breaking out of jail and then claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse that's head-scratching unlikely and which none of the other prisoners (mostly men) seem to have been subjected to.
You're expected to fall in line with social justice mentality, such as when a group of refugees beat a man half to death and take the money he's carrying (which is the player's) and the game frames this as a positive thing which you should totally thank them for, because they never would have stolen it except that they thought that it belonged to wealthy people and they give it to their refugee mates.
You can expect to get scolded if you try to adhere to the conventions of, say, heroic fantasy... rather than social justice. A small child whose mother is leaving to accompany you to war will "diss" you if you tell her that you're going to protect your comrade (because she doesn't need you, of course!); the only acceptable answer is to say that this woman that you've only just met and have never seen in any serious battle is incredibly tough.
Even among the ogres, the female ogre is of course by far the strongest and yet inexplicably subject to oppression by her male counterparts.
These are just some of the things that I've noticed, mostly from the very start of the game.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
RedKnight, your hyperbolic statements include:
1. Siege of Dragonspear is filled with extremist SJW crap 2. Beamdog have filled Siege of Dragonspear with their own political agenda. 3. Beamdog are literally ruining everything they touch. 4. Beamdog has no respect for the original content.
These are your opinions, and you are of course entitled to them. But merely having opinions, and telling people what they are, doesn't make them true. And other people challenging your opinions doesn't make the challenger(s) part of the same conspiracy you see Beamdog a member of.
Play the game. Enjoy it. Tell people about it. Play it some more. Don't enjoy it. Tell people why. Don't play it again.
Nice strawmen
1. I am asking questions. 2. I havent played the game and I read the interview done by Amber Scott. Her interview makes me worried, because she said explicitely how original content was sexist and needed to be changed.
If you cannot understand why people are upset about what she said there its probably because you are busy arguing with your own strawmen.
They haven't altered any source material though. They can't. They've expanded on Safana and Jaheira, allowing for character development behind these tropes Amber and others have issue with, but the characters haven't been changed.
craymond727, those are facts, and the hyperbole employed behind much of this discussion has little room for facts.
Its far easier to write that the developer (Beamdog) has no respect for the original material, that a writer of the game employed extremist SJW crap, that the game is filled with their own political agenda, that Beamdog is ruining everything it touches. And when challenged about those opinions, to proclaim that they havn't actually played the game concerned, and all their opinions are about other games, and what they dislike in general, and their fears about what this game might be like (rather than what it actually is like).
Play the game. Enjoy it. Tell people about it. Play it some more. Don't enjoy it. Tell people why. Don't play it again.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
The characters of Safana and Jaheira were not changed. The first Baldur's Gate had little to no character development, which reduced Safana and Jaheira to their respective tropes. In SoD, the goal of Amber and the other writers was to flesh out characters and give them dynamic personalities. Safana is still sensual and flirtatious, but it's more developed than her previous personality.
Ok, but how are they fleshed out? You still have BG2 as reference, you know? Is Jaheira from BG2 significantly different from Jaheira in BG SoD? For example, in BG2 i know she was strong, independent, and i remember in BG1 she was bossy to Khalid. How is she now? Have they turned her into one of those special snowflakes who sees women's issues, racism, and other SJW crap everywhere, or is she still Jaheira?
PS. I am just sick and tired hearing about this SJW crap at every turn. I know every writer will bring their own political biases into their work, but I am just sick and tired of the feminist SJW narrative being pushed in every movie, every book, every comic book, and now even 20 year old games. To say that it has been overused is an understatement. At this rate I am afraid to open up my fridge in fear that I will see a SJW screaming at me with their bullshit. That's why I am asking.
Jaheira is simply depicted as strong and independent, which the crazies here will construe as SJW.
Because everything everywhere is SJW. Is the female character strong? SJW. Is she weak? Then she's being depicted as oppressed and that's SJW. Do you see how this goes?
What I don't understand about the whole thing is, why Beamdog took a jab at gamergate in the first place? I mean this wasn't an accident, there had to be a conversation about it before implementing the line. With all the toxic BS that surrounds the group, who in their right mind thought it would be a good idea to draw their attention? What did you expect to come from this, other than a swarm of fake reviews?
Anyway, I look forward to playing SoD (as soon as mods work on the steam version)
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
I'd say it's omnipresent.
They have a nice system of chat interjections that is mostly used throughout the opening of the game by the female NPCs to belittle and denigrate the male NPCs and the player character.
The men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians.
Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men (a thief that actually steals from you rather than just threatening you and getting turned into paste) or quick to secure "victim cred" by murderously breaking out of jail and then claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse that's head-scratching unlikely and which none of the other prisoners (mostly men) seem to have been subjected to.
You're expected to fall in line with social justice mentality, such as when a group of refugees beat a man half to death and take the money he's carrying (which is the player's) and the game frames this as a positive thing which you should totally thank them for, because they never would have stolen it except that they thought that it belonged to wealthy people and they give it to their refugee mates.
You can expect to get scolded if you try to adhere to the conventions of, say, heroic fantasy... rather than social justice. A small child whose mother is leaving to accompany you to war will "diss" you if you tell her that you're going to protect your comrade (because she doesn't need you, of course!); the only acceptable answer is to say that this woman that you've only just met and have never seen in any serious battle is incredibly tough.
Even among the ogres, the female ogre is of course by far the strongest and yet inexplicably subject to oppression by her male counterparts.
These are just some of the things that I've noticed, mostly from the very start of the game.
I hope that's helpful to you.
Oh shit... I am getting SW episode 7 flashbacks... *sigh*... So disappointing to hear this... Still, its Baldur's Gate... Oh man... I so wanted this to be good. I think I will lurk a bit around to see what other people are saying and then I will make my decision. Still not sure what to do...
They have a nice system of chat interjections that is mostly used throughout the opening of the game by the female NPCs to belittle and denigrate the male NPCs and the player character.
The men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians.
Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men (a thief that actually steals from you rather than just threatening you and getting turned into paste) or quick to secure "victim cred" by murderously breaking out of jail and then claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse that's head-scratching unlikely and which none of the other prisoners (mostly men) seem to have been subjected to.
You're expected to fall in line with social justice mentality, such as when a group of refugees beat a man half to death and take the money he's carrying (which is the player's) and the game frames this as a positive thing which you should totally thank them for, because they never would have stolen it except that they thought that it belonged to wealthy people and they give it to their refugee mates.
You can expect to get scolded if you try to adhere to the conventions of, say, heroic fantasy... rather than social justice. A small child whose mother is leaving to accompany you to war will "diss" you if you tell her that you're going to protect your comrade (because she doesn't need you, of course!); the only acceptable answer is to say that this woman that you've only just met and have never seen in any serious battle is incredibly tough.
Even among the ogres, the female ogre is of course by far the strongest and yet inexplicably subject to oppression by her male counterparts.
These are just some of the things that I've noticed, mostly from the very start of the game.
I hope that's helpful to you.
Thank you for taking the time and writing that up.
It saddens me that Beamdog had the opportunity to create something special but instead opted to become operatives in the computer games culture wars. Instead of being good stewards of this beloved franchise, they chose to turn SoD into a SJW shitshow.
I have bought BG:EE, BG2:EE and IWD:EE but now Beamdog have lost me as a customer. Just like Terry Goodkind has lost me as a reader many years ago when he introduced characters that were nothing more than thinly veiled vessels for preaching Ayn-Randian Objectivism at the reader. I hate being lectured, preached at, manipulated and having someones ideology shoved down my throat. I don't want that stuff in my escapism.
Its extremely cool that treating others with respect is somehow reprehensible and warrants an immediate request for the refund of a videogame.
Yeah! I totally agree. Everyone who requested a refund for treating others with respect is a total retard. However, I have to say that I have yet to meet such a person. Most people have an issue with being patronized and lectured by always-busy moral crusaders of the feminist class. As a wise man once said: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
Some of these "SJW conspiracies" about SoD are damn right hilarious. How ironic that a movement that despises that hack Anita Sarkeesian has spawned a small army of them.
Instead of "teh paytreearky" sekritly trying to control all vaginas on earth its now the sjwinati culturally manipulating us all into black muslim transgender lesbian dragonkin.
Western society is fast becoming a historical joke.
So sad about all the hate, really.. Something that, to me, seems trivial has blown out of proportion..
Agreed, I was too busy enjoying 20+ hours of the world's best game to even notice any of these things.
Giving a 0 to it for a few SJW lines is just beyond asinine.
Is it really just a few lines though? The writer herself said in an interview that the original content was sexist and it needed to be changed. She talks about changing Jaheira and Safana, and bunch of other stuff that made me scratch my head. I am so sick and tired of this extremist SJW crap, where they come into already established franchises and change stuff by filling it with their political agendas! They litteraly ruin everything they touch, so my moral dilemma is this. Should I keep the game and support a developer who has no respect for original content (since the writer just shit all over it, called it sexist, filled it with "regressive" SJW ideas), or should I not support it just to send a clear message? It all depends on how much SJW content is there. If its 1 or 2 lines, I can live with that. If they changed the classical characters and filled them with SJW propaganda, then adios Beamdog! I dont want to have anything to do with you!
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
The characters of Safana and Jaheira were not changed. The first Baldur's Gate had little to no character development, which reduced Safana and Jaheira to their respective tropes. In SoD, the goal of Amber and the other writers was to flesh out characters and give them dynamic personalities. Safana is still sensual and flirtatious, but it's more developed than her previous personality.
Ok, but how are they fleshed out? You still have BG2 as reference, you know? Is Jaheira from BG2 significantly different from Jaheira in BG SoD? For example, in BG2 i know she was strong, independent, and i remember in BG1 she was bossy to Khalid. How is she now? Have they turned her into one of those special snowflakes who sees women's issues, racism, and other SJW crap everywhere, or is she still Jaheira?
PS. I am just sick and tired hearing about this SJW crap at every turn. I know every writer will bring their own political biases into their work, but I am just sick and tired of the feminist SJW narrative being pushed in every movie, every book, every comic book, and now even 20 year old games. To say that it has been overused is an understatement. At this rate I am afraid to open up my fridge in fear that I will see a SJW screaming at me with their bullshit. That's why I am asking.
Jaheira is simply depicted as strong and independent, which the crazies here will construe as SJW.
Because everything everywhere is SJW. Is the female character strong? SJW. Is she weak? Then she's being depicted as oppressed and that's SJW. Do you see how this goes?
I see your point, but personally I like strong women as long as they are not written as Mary Sues. Sarah Connor, great female character. Ripley from Alien, great strong female! Love her! The girl from SW episode 7 (cant even remember her name), strong but also horribly written and she feels like something a typical SJW would write. Most people who complain about SJWs understand these differences.
After viewing the reviews on metacritic there seemed to be a theme of one character that you talk to that introduces themselves as a transsexual or something and that is the only dialogue option. That seems very strange of a thing to offer up as the first thing you say to a stranger. "Hi I'm so and so I like to have intimate relations with x,y,z" is not usually something I feel I have to discuss with pretty much anybody in the course of the first of one hundredth interaction with someone. It just seems like we should be presented more options. One of the complaints about EE material was being railroaded down certain dialogue paths and so forth and it sounds like this is similar to that criticism. Seems like first options should be "Hi" then you might get that in a "tell me more about yourself" optional dialogue tree that you can freely ignore or pursue.
Another thing I've heard mentioning is multiplayer, bugs, and some folks like the new UI while others don't. After looking at the patch for BGEE1 and 2 which I do own, I'd say I don't hate the new UI it will take a bit of getting used to but everything seems to be there.
I've seen negative and positive reviews so I'm undecided as of now. I'm holding off a bit on SOD for now to see if these issues are dealbreakers. I'll be following the situation as ever since I've been following BG off and on since release.
Seems like first options should be "Hi" then you might get that in a "tell me more about yourself" optional dialogue tree that you can freely ignore or pursue.
This is exactly what the interaction looks like. You start an optional dialogue about her "strange name" and then she gives you one line about having been raised the wrong gender. That's it.
Comments
@Topic at hand: I believe that it will die in a few days and we'll be able to give positive reviews without someone artificially tanking them down.
When playing Pillars of Eternity and participating in the Steam forum regularly, I stopped counting how many players put more effort into bashing Obsidian after encountering the first few Shades and Phantoms, than taking a deep breath and playing the game more slowly and more thoughtfully. Rough times ahead.
I can see people getting upset by one line and refusing to go any further, although it's an unfortunate reaction to have.
I will say--and I wasn't on the writing team for the game's dialogue--that Minsc's rare selection line doesn't read to me as an insult to GamerGate. It strikes me as being on the same level as Khalid's "MWEH HEH HEH--um, yes?" line: it's a rare moment of lucidity where we get to peek behind the curtain of the character's outward personality and hear their inner thoughts. If anything, it's Jim Cummings's reading of it that makes it sound directed, but again, that awareness is coming from my knowledge of the real-world context, and that may be knowledge that Jim doesn't share.
Does that mean the line is appropriate? That's not for me to say. Clearly it's offended some of the members of GamerGate (maybe more than some). It's up to each player to decide for themselves how they feel about the game's content.
Do I think it merits a campaign of negative reviews, or a coordinated attack on the Beamdog community? No. But that is precisely what is happening here. Maybe not everyone who's reacting the way they are is coming from the KotakuInAction subreddit, but that group is certainly the one driving the narrative.
So bear that in mind. And if you want to "fight back" against the narrative...talk about the game. Talk about the things that you liked, or the things that you wish could be better. Write a bug report. Write a feature request. Discuss your latest mod setup--or discuss your frustration at the Steam version's inability to handle mods.
Do what this community is best at, in other words: being a community.
That really needed to be said, and quoted
Combat is good (BG/IWD after all). Encounters are too. You expect this, though.
Writing/story is ok to mediocre (railroaded political activism being the mediocre part, and there's a lot more of it than just one tranny you can't say anything "bad" to). It's a step back from BG1, and nowhere near BG2. I consider ToB to be ok.
So, like ToB, but at a lower party level? Close, if it didn't have the political activism that is.
Overall an average addition to the BG saga but enough for me to want to see what Beamdog can do with a wholly original (Enhanced) Infinity Engine game (without being shackled to an existing plot or storyline).
ironically two years ago, or maybe three people wouldn't have given a damn about mizhana.
Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937273688258/
What particularly bothers me about Amber Scott's interview with Kotaku (of all places) is that she called BG1 "sexist" because some of the humor is at the expense of women. SO WHAT?! What are you telling us here, Amber? It's not OK to have humor at the expense of women, who just happen to be 50% of the population? I guess that, presumably, you may only have humor at the expense of the evil cis white heterosexual male oppressors that you cleary hate so much.
It's too bad that the evil cis white heterosexual male oppressors are probably 95% of your audience.
They shouldn't have made it so explicit IMO. But, if they wanted, you should be given a choice in all the explicit activism they decided to put in.
No one wants to be lectured without having a say in the conclusion.
Mizhena is just kinda there, and I didn't much care s/he was transgender at all. S/he sells healing supplies, that's all I needed to know lol (or cared about).
1. Siege of Dragonspear is filled with extremist SJW crap
2. Beamdog have filled Siege of Dragonspear with their own political agenda.
3. Beamdog are literally ruining everything they touch.
4. Beamdog has no respect for the original content.
These are your opinions, and you are of course entitled to them. But merely having opinions, and telling people what they are, doesn't make them true. And other people challenging your opinions doesn't make the challenger(s) part of the same conspiracy you see Beamdog a member of.
Play the game. Enjoy it. Tell people about it. Play it some more. Don't enjoy it. Tell people why. Don't play it again.
PS. I am just sick and tired hearing about this SJW crap at every turn. I know every writer will bring their own political biases into their work, but I am just sick and tired of the feminist SJW narrative being pushed in every movie, every book, every comic book, and now even 20 year old games. To say that it has been overused is an understatement. At this rate I am afraid to open up my fridge in fear that I will see a SJW screaming at me with their bullshit. That's why I am asking.
They have a nice system of chat interjections that is mostly used throughout the opening of the game by the female NPCs to belittle and denigrate the male NPCs and the player character.
The men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians.
Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men (a thief that actually steals from you rather than just threatening you and getting turned into paste) or quick to secure "victim cred" by murderously breaking out of jail and then claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse that's head-scratching unlikely and which none of the other prisoners (mostly men) seem to have been subjected to.
You're expected to fall in line with social justice mentality, such as when a group of refugees beat a man half to death and take the money he's carrying (which is the player's) and the game frames this as a positive thing which you should totally thank them for, because they never would have stolen it except that they thought that it belonged to wealthy people and they give it to their refugee mates.
You can expect to get scolded if you try to adhere to the conventions of, say, heroic fantasy... rather than social justice. A small child whose mother is leaving to accompany you to war will "diss" you if you tell her that you're going to protect your comrade (because she doesn't need you, of course!); the only acceptable answer is to say that this woman that you've only just met and have never seen in any serious battle is incredibly tough.
Even among the ogres, the female ogre is of course by far the strongest and yet inexplicably subject to oppression by her male counterparts.
These are just some of the things that I've noticed, mostly from the very start of the game.
I hope that's helpful to you.
1. I am asking questions.
2. I havent played the game and I read the interview done by Amber Scott. Her interview makes me worried, because she said explicitely how original content was sexist and needed to be changed.
If you cannot understand why people are upset about what she said there its probably because you are busy arguing with your own strawmen.
Its far easier to write that the developer (Beamdog) has no respect for the original material, that a writer of the game employed extremist SJW crap, that the game is filled with their own political agenda, that Beamdog is ruining everything it touches. And when challenged about those opinions, to proclaim that they havn't actually played the game concerned, and all their opinions are about other games, and what they dislike in general, and their fears about what this game might be like (rather than what it actually is like).
Play the game. Enjoy it. Tell people about it. Play it some more. Don't enjoy it. Tell people why. Don't play it again.
Because everything everywhere is SJW. Is the female character strong? SJW. Is she weak? Then she's being depicted as oppressed and that's SJW. Do you see how this goes?
Anyway, I look forward to playing SoD (as soon as mods work on the steam version)
It saddens me that Beamdog had the opportunity to create something special but instead opted to become operatives in the computer games culture wars. Instead of being good stewards of this beloved franchise, they chose to turn SoD into a SJW shitshow.
I have bought BG:EE, BG2:EE and IWD:EE but now Beamdog have lost me as a customer. Just like Terry Goodkind has lost me as a reader many years ago when he introduced characters that were nothing more than thinly veiled vessels for preaching Ayn-Randian Objectivism at the reader. I hate being lectured, preached at, manipulated and having someones ideology shoved down my throat. I don't want that stuff in my escapism.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
Instead of "teh paytreearky" sekritly trying to control all vaginas on earth its now the sjwinati culturally manipulating us all into black muslim transgender lesbian dragonkin.
Western society is fast becoming a historical joke.
After viewing the reviews on metacritic there seemed to be a theme of one character that you talk to that introduces themselves as a transsexual or something and that is the only dialogue option. That seems very strange of a thing to offer up as the first thing you say to a stranger. "Hi I'm so and so I like to have intimate relations with x,y,z" is not usually something I feel I have to discuss with pretty much anybody in the course of the first of one hundredth interaction with someone. It just seems like we should be presented more options. One of the complaints about EE material was being railroaded down certain dialogue paths and so forth and it sounds like this is similar to that criticism. Seems like first options should be "Hi" then you might get that in a "tell me more about yourself" optional dialogue tree that you can freely ignore or pursue.
Another thing I've heard mentioning is multiplayer, bugs, and some folks like the new UI while others don't.
After looking at the patch for BGEE1 and 2 which I do own, I'd say I don't hate the new UI it will take a bit of getting used to but everything seems to be there.
I've seen negative and positive reviews so I'm undecided as of now. I'm holding off a bit on SOD for now to see if these issues are dealbreakers. I'll be following the situation as ever since I've been following BG off and on since release.