I would welcome another gnome portrait, but do gnomes have to always be steampunk? Before Jan they didn't really have that vibe going on in BG. It's not like they can craft items in BG or anything. What I'd like to see is a gnome in a hooded cape, as that could pass equally for a thief, illusionist, or cleric of Baravar Cloakshadow.
@salieri Actually there's a subset of gnomes who are tinkerers: "Tinker gnomes are the common gnomes of the Dragonlance campaign setting." So they're D&D but I'm not sure if FR has them though... I think that in this case the artist that made Jan really made his portrait to fit his personality more than gnomes in general
Oh I know that D&D has gnomish engineers and tinkerers, but I just mean there are no opportunities to explore that aspect of the race in BG1. No items, special dialogue options, crafting skills etc. I personally feel it simply wouldn't 'go' in BG1. I like the Quayle portrait for a Gnome, but Tiax really does look like a Dwarf to me.
So we come back to: how do you make someone's face gnomelike, without being a dwarf or halfling? What distinguishes them? Baldur's Gate chose gadgets for some, and if those won't work, what else do you suggest?
Big nose, a really neat or eccentrically styled beard (maybe with a sligtly curled-up moustache or something,) not so stocky or ruddy-cheeked as a dwarf. Maybe on reflection Tiax doesn't look TOO Dwarfish, but he is flippin' ugly.
I've been digging up references for info from Forgotten Realms wiki today, saying that gnomes are the smallest, they have black eyes and spikey hair. The art for that looked new though, so I wonder is this a 4th edition change? (I've never had the opportunity to play pnp with anyone so I'm not great with the rule differences, but there were some significant differences right?).
My attempt is shaping up better now but when I started it he kinda looked like a ginger version of Yoda
Im pretty sure that gnomes are supposed to be smaller and slighter than halflings. If you go that a halfling sorta resembles a human/dwarf mix then I would consider a gnome kind of a dwarf/halfelf mix lol. At least from what I remember, truthfully dragonlance, forgotten realms, and a bunch of other fantasy worlds have kind of blended together in my brain at this point.
Im pretty sure that gnomes are supposed to be smaller and slighter than halflings. If you go that a halfling sorta resembles a human/dwarf mix then I would consider a gnome kind of a dwarf/halfelf mix lol. At least from what I remember, truthfully dragonlance, forgotten realms, and a bunch of other fantasy worlds have kind of blended together in my brain at this point.
I've never thought of halflings as a human/dwarf mix, more as just miniature humans.
I agree with what you say about dwarf/halfelf mix for gnomes, though. They are considered a fey race now after all, though I'm not sure that was true in 2e.
"So we come back to: how do you make someone's face gnomelike, without being a dwarf or halfling? What distinguishes them? "
@HaggardBlaze Yep, if halflings are like little humans, gnomes look more like little elves with dwarven beards.
@Hertz This is straight from the forgotten realms wikia: "Gnomes are [...] smaller even than halflings. However, while halflings are commonly said to resemble short humans, gnomes are more comparable with Tel-quessir, with whom they share pointed ears and high cheekbones" "The skin of gnomes runs in hue from reddish tans to earthy browns or even shades of gray"
So I imagine a person with childlike proportions, sort of elven features... a reddish skin hue (that halflings don't share)... and nothing to suggest a malicious personality.. it seems what most gnomes share is a "naturally witty and jovial" personality. (Must... not.. mention ... Quayle ) )
well the halflings, thinking back to not rulesets but the descripts of them by tolkein, physically they seem to be kind of like dwarves and human mixes. I was never crazy into the rule sets so most of my lore comes from dragonlance, forgotten realms, tolkein, and other authors writing in the same vein
Hobbits look like people, in the same proportion but smaller, with curly hair and no shoes on largish feet; these features will not be especially obvious with a face-and-shoulders portrait. Tolkien describes them as wearing bright colors in natural hues.
Dwarves look like shorter people, NOT in proportion; they are stockier and have beards. Female Dwarves look like males (says Tolkien). How do you know there aren't any female dwarf pictures?
Gnomes look like slightly elvish, slightly dwarvish, people, but shorter and with earth-toned skin. I'm not sure how one will see a great difference, other than color, but I'll try.
Thanks, @Kerozevok, but I personally wouldn't want to resize my old, smaller portraits to a larger size, as doing that would cause some pixellation and/or blurriness (depending on the resizing method).
I have some of the source pictures I've created my portraits from so it won't be hard to create new ones from those. As for the others, I'll either have to search the web for or live without. It's all good though, as the old portrait dimensions really did not suit modern high resolution screens, they were just too small.
@neleothesze This is why you can't take wikis at face value. If you check the source for that wiki entry, you will see that it comes from the PHB2 from 4E, which many of us avoid like the (spell)plague. Better to look to an earlier source. I'm at work at the moment, but I can look at my 2nd Edition books when I get home.
So we come back to: how do you make someone's face gnomelike, without being a dwarf or halfling? What distinguishes them? Baldur's Gate chose gadgets for some, and if those won't work, what else do you suggest?
@sandmanCCL That's what I meant. I'll look through my 2E FR stuff when I get home. I'm fairly certain that there's no appearance stuff in the 1E Grey box, so 2E is the best way to go, IMO.
@Permidion_Stark I think gnomes had big, bulbous noses up to AD&D 2nd Ed. From 3rd Ed. gnomes have regular human-sized noses, which in my opinion makes them virtually indistinguishable from halflings. There's very few changes in 3rd Ed. I'm in favor of, and this isn't one of them.
@Permidion_Stark I think gnomes had big, bulbous noses up to AD&D 2nd Ed. From 3rd Ed. gnomes have regular human-sized noses, which in my opinion makes them virtually indistinguishable from halflings. There's very few changes in 3rd Ed. I'm in favor of, and this isn't one of them.
I agree. I think there is a tendency to make other races far too prettified and human-looking. They are meant to look different to us and we are not meant to find them all physically attractive.
Yes they do. I'm just looking at my 2nd ed of The Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings. I never realised they changed them in later editions.
Further to this, there's actually a part on page 35 as follows:
The Nose Knows The big schnozzola is an important status symbol among all of the gnome subraces. Parents proudly point out the size of their children's noses and make enthusiastic prognostications about future growth. While the practical applications of such a facial feature are admittedly limited, gnomes will frequently embark on size contests, with heavy wagers, between members of rival clans. Svirfneblin go so far as to make this a primary determinant in the selection of a new king or queen!
And here's some pictures from the book that I've put up to show the differences.
From A Grand Tour of the Realms of the 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting box set:
"The gnomes of Faerun are a small, friendly race of humanoid creatures common in most regions of the Realms. They are smaller and less stocky than dwarves, and are thought to be distant relatives of dwarves (though only gnomish men have beards).
The faces of gnomes, regardless of age, are lined as if with centuries of smiles and frowns, making these people appear to be carved from wood. Their natural coloring, from a light ash color to maple to the color of varnished and buffed oak, increases the tendency to think of gnomes as a woods folk when they are thought of at all."
@Metal_Hurlant@ScarsUnseen Thanks for the info. Can either of you find some older pictures of female gnomes... other than well... not having any beards? The one I could find is from Icewind Dale (you can find it on google by typing icewind dale female gnome so there shouldn't be any copyright issues) not FR books. Either the artist used a bit of creative licence or they are sticking to the "Once a gnome has passed his or her first century, their hair begins to gray, if it was not already white, and their skin begins to wrinkle as in humans or dwarves" (so I'm guessing they get age lines at 30-40, not necessarily sooner) Other than that, the skin coloring respects what you quoted, the wood-ish hues, and the nose is pretty large, again matching what @Metal_Hurlant said about the distinguishing feature of gnomes.
@neleothesze This one's from Demihumans of the Realms. You may notice the pointed ears, lending credence to the idea that at least as early as the end of 2E's cycle, TSR was pushing gnomes into a more fey image than before, though in all other respects, the previous description holds. Gnomes seem to hold the demihuman middle ground: stature of a halfling, weathered like a dwarf, but with elf ears.
@Metal_Hurlant Thank you! This is perfect. The first two images show that gnome women can be pretty attractive After reading all that you guys posted I thought that my little sketch was just wishful thinking and gnome ladies wouldn't compare to the alluring elves, beautiful women and exotic half-elves... I could already imagine a gnome with a bulbous nose, weathered, deeply lined skin and a shock of graying hair parading as a 20 year old Bhaalspawn. I probably wouldn't dare give her more than 10 charisma. XD ...but it is possible to have a cute gnome!
Now I wish more than anything to see a gnome lady, whether by the BG:EE artists or @Hertz.
Comments
My attempt is shaping up better now but when I started it he kinda looked like a ginger version of Yoda
I agree with what you say about dwarf/halfelf mix for gnomes, though. They are considered a fey race now after all, though I'm not sure that was true in 2e.
@HaggardBlaze Yep, if halflings are like little humans, gnomes look more like little elves with dwarven beards.
@Hertz This is straight from the forgotten realms wikia: "Gnomes are [...] smaller even than halflings. However, while halflings are commonly said to resemble short humans, gnomes are more comparable with Tel-quessir, with whom they share pointed ears and high cheekbones" "The skin of gnomes runs in hue from reddish tans to earthy browns or even shades of gray"
So I imagine a person with childlike proportions, sort of elven features... a reddish skin hue (that halflings don't share)... and nothing to suggest a malicious personality.. it seems what most gnomes share is a "naturally witty and jovial" personality. (Must... not.. mention ... Quayle
well the halflings, thinking back to not rulesets but the descripts of them by tolkein, physically they seem to be kind of like dwarves and human mixes. I was never crazy into the rule sets so most of my lore comes from dragonlance, forgotten realms, tolkein, and other authors writing in the same vein
Hobbits look like people, in the same proportion but smaller, with curly hair and no shoes on largish feet; these features will not be especially obvious with a face-and-shoulders portrait. Tolkien describes them as wearing bright colors in natural hues.
Dwarves look like shorter people, NOT in proportion; they are stockier and have beards. Female Dwarves look like males (says Tolkien). How do you know there aren't any female dwarf pictures?
Gnomes look like slightly elvish, slightly dwarvish, people, but shorter and with earth-toned skin. I'm not sure how one will see a great difference, other than color, but I'll try.
http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDownload.htm
Good freeware, no spyware and easy to use.
I have some of the source pictures I've created my portraits from so it won't be hard to create new ones from those. As for the others, I'll either have to search the web for or live without. It's all good though, as the old portrait dimensions really did not suit modern high resolution screens, they were just too small.
Further to this, there's actually a part on page 35 as follows:
The Nose Knows
The big schnozzola is an important status symbol among all of the gnome subraces. Parents proudly point out the size of their children's noses and make enthusiastic prognostications about future growth. While the practical applications of such a facial feature are admittedly limited, gnomes will frequently embark on size contests, with heavy wagers, between members of rival clans. Svirfneblin go so far as to make this a primary determinant in the selection of a new king or queen!
And here's some pictures from the book that I've put up to show the differences.
Gnomes
and
Halflings
http://i50.tinypic.com/og9vfn.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/mt5c0i.jpg
"The gnomes of Faerun are a small, friendly race of humanoid creatures
common in most regions of the Realms. They are smaller and less
stocky than dwarves, and are thought to be distant relatives of
dwarves (though only gnomish men have beards).
The faces of gnomes, regardless of age, are lined as if with centuries
of smiles and frowns, making these people appear to be carved from
wood. Their natural coloring, from a light ash color to maple to the
color of varnished and buffed oak, increases the tendency to think of
gnomes as a woods folk when they are thought of at all."
The one I could find is from Icewind Dale (you can find it on google by typing icewind dale female gnome so there shouldn't be any copyright issues) not FR books.
Either the artist used a bit of creative licence or they are sticking to the "Once a gnome has passed his or her first century, their hair begins to gray, if it was not already white, and their skin begins to wrinkle as in humans or dwarves" (so I'm guessing they get age lines at 30-40, not necessarily sooner)
Other than that, the skin coloring respects what you quoted, the wood-ish hues, and the nose is pretty large, again matching what @Metal_Hurlant said about the distinguishing feature of gnomes.
Female Gnomes
Male and Female Gnome
and there's also a sub race called Forest Gnomes as opposed to the normal Rock Gnomes.
and one of halflings
Note the similarities to humans, but with big hairy feet.
was just wishful thinking and gnome ladies wouldn't compare to the alluring elves, beautiful women and exotic half-elves... I could already imagine a gnome with a bulbous nose, weathered, deeply lined skin and a shock of graying hair parading as a 20 year old Bhaalspawn. I probably wouldn't dare give her more than 10 charisma. XD ...but it is possible to have a cute gnome!
Now I wish more than anything to see a gnome lady, whether by the BG:EE artists or @Hertz.