I just killed Sarevok and beat the first dungeon and so far I love it. The dialog is hilarious. It made sense that my party members left. (the beginning of bg2 made no sense, I'm hoping sod fixes that) The enemy AI is smarter, it tries to murder my mages. I had low hopes because I thought they goofed up with the three characters they added to bg1. They were bg2 characters in a bg1 world and it clashed like Star Wars special edition. But so far sod is everything I wanted it to be. I'm very surprised. I don't know what the internet is up in arms about but I'm guessing it's going to be something I wouldn't have even noticed. Right now the streets of Baldur's Gate are flooded with refugees. I thought there was going to be a gay pride parade or something. Maybe I haven't gotten that far yet.
The problem is not a transgender character. The problem is everything. Bad design decisions, bad UI, bad dialogs, bad inmersion, bad progression.
As far as I am reading, people is focusing too much in that character while you could pass through the game without talking to it. There are plenty of problems but the discusion is being moved to that npc, which is the least of the problems, if there is any.
Join date April 17th. Bad grammar. Fake profile is fake.
The problem is not a transgender character. The problem is everything. Bad design decisions, bad UI, bad dialogs, bad inmersion, bad progression.
As far as I am reading, people is focusing too much in that character while you could pass through the game without talking to it. There are plenty of problems but the discusion is being moved to that npc, which is the least of the problems, if there is any.
Join date April 17th. Bad grammar. Fake profile is fake.
I wouldn't blindly bash someone for bad grammar on an international forum, especially something as simple as a mistaken verb tense.
But I would like to hear exactly what is so bad about the design decisions, the UI, the dialogues, the immersion, and progression. Because personally, I think most of these things were pretty well-done.
The problem is not a transgender character. The problem is everything. Bad design decisions, bad UI, bad dialogs, bad inmersion, bad progression.
As far as I am reading, people is focusing too much in that character while you could pass through the game without talking to it. There are plenty of problems but the discusion is being moved to that npc, which is the least of the problems, if there is any.
Join date April 17th. Bad grammar. Fake profile is fake.
I wouldn't blindly bash someone for bad grammar on an international forum, especially something as simple as a mistaken verb tense.
But I would like to hear exactly what is so bad about the design decisions, the UI, the dialogues, the immersion, and progression. Because personally, I think most of these things were pretty well-done.
I'm not bashing them for bad grammar (although it does call into question their ability to identify "bad writing"). It's just that there have been quite a lot of posts bashing SoD made by "people" with new profiles and VERY SIMILAR poor grammar. I am therefore forced to conclude that they are all made by the same person.
The big 2.0 update completely ruined the games I'd already bought, so no way in hell would I even consider buying SoD until the games I already own are back in a playable state.
All the goodwill Beamdog earned over the past few years was pretty soundly obliterated by that hot mess of a patch.
The problem is not a transgender character. The problem is everything. Bad design decisions, bad UI, bad dialogs, bad inmersion, bad progression.
As far as I am reading, people is focusing too much in that character while you could pass through the game without talking to it. There are plenty of problems but the discusion is being moved to that npc, which is the least of the problems, if there is any.
Join date April 17th. Bad grammar. Fake profile is fake.
I don't know why it says april, because my profile says October 2013. Frkun
Username Frkun Joined October 2013 Visits 123 Last Active 12:18PM Roles Member Points 51 Badges 6 Posts 45
And sorry, but English is not my mother language. You can check my previous posts and see how my English level is even worse back then, so you can stop using as argument a logic fallacy.
@Fardragon Now that kind of argument seems to a bit unfair there. By making any argument personal you're not debating the merits of his statement but are instead trying to play on his character. That is bad practice and I would like to ask you to stop that. As you have already accused him of using a fake account, I'd say that merits a little more understanding.
As for the bad writing argument, @Frkun has already specified what he considers the writing. The concept itself is far larger than the pedantic use of correct grammar and spelling. It has to do with the way a dialogue is set up, a story unfolds, the reactions we are offered and the consequences of those reactions, the way the dialogues and banter fit into the setting as a whole as well as the personalities of the actors in said setting.
And yes, even if one is not fluent in a given language it is possible to spot inconsistencies, and stories that can be sub par.
Again, I cannot personally judge any of it until I finish my play through but I do think we should remain a bit more civil in the discussion surrounding our beloved games.
@Fardragon Now that kind of argument seems to a bit unfair there. By making any argument personal you're not debating the merits of his statement but are instead trying to play on his character.
Nothing personal about it. If English is a second language it doesn't just affect spelling and grammar - indeed that is often MORE correct than that of native speakers, who tend to be a bit sloppy - it affects general comprehension as well. In particular, learning a second language tends to be far more formal, without the idiom, modern usages, and other references to a shared culture.
As for the bad writing argument, @Frkun has already specified what he considers the writing. The concept itself is far larger than the pedantic use of correct grammar and spelling. It has to do with the way a dialogue is set up, a story unfolds, the reactions we are offered and the consequences of those reactions, the way the dialogues and banter fit into the setting as a whole as well as the personalities of the actors in said setting.
Speaking as a native English speaker, and an English teacher, SoD does all those things FAR BETTER than the original BG1, which by modern standards is really rather ropey. You could argue that by doing it better SoD doesn't preserve the naive style of BG1 I suppose.
Man if I developed this expansion and people raised this much hell about it I would pretend to take feedback and act like the patch was going to address their issues and then I would give them Baldur's Gate: Super Gay Edition. Minsc would come out of the closet. Every line of dialogue you can speak would either have the word "fabulous" in it or have you call someone a big silly. There'd be gay pride parades in Baldur's Gate. You could get a +5 longsword vs cisgenders. And halfway through the game your character would start identifying as the opposite sex and if you were a man then you could only wear a dress, everything else would be highlighted red. Man, I never even heard the word cisgender or gamergate before I bought sod and later googled it to see what was going on. The internet is insane.
That the game was serving a specific agenda I don't know and I don't care, nor should the folks influenced by the stupid controversy. Every gaming company has its own style of writing and its own agenda, a true gamer doesn't care about politics but focus only on the merits of the game proper and the degree of fun to be had playing it. I think cRPG players are mature enough to decide for themselves.
The writing and UI design are a matter of preference. But there is no denying that SoD stays true to BG1 spirit, it does provide some good fun moments and is a well thought expansion. The 2.1 patch fixed many bugs and the game runs smoothly. I'm satisfied with what I got, enough to sink 55 hours or so to finish 2 playthroughs, and will replay when I get more free time. It scratched that BG itch and I got my money's worth. Forget about what people who haven't played the game say and try it for yourselves, you might be surprised.
Man if I developed this expansion and people raised this much hell about it I would pretend to take feedback and act like the patch was going to address their issues and then I would give them Baldur's Gate: Super Gay Edition. Minsc would come out of the closet. Every line of dialogue you can speak would either have the word "fabulous" in it or have you call someone a big silly. There'd be gay pride parades in Baldur's Gate. You could get a +5 longsword vs cisgenders. And halfway through the game your character would start identifying as the opposite sex and if you were a man then you could only wear a dress, everything else would be highlighted red. Man, I never even heard the word cisgender or gamergate before I bought sod and later googled it to see what was going on. The internet is insane.
I wish you were the dev then. The internet would explode in the funniest manner.
I'm mostly just baffled. I never saw that transformers movie but I saw a review or something. There's the Autobots and Decepticons, huge intergalactic races. And they're having a battle to the death. And for no reason it's happening on earth. That's what I feel like. Why is this happening here?
You guys, what if this is Michael Bay's fault too?
Dont think so. If it was, Mizhena would explode into fire, set fire to the camp and then whole Flaming Fist name would become much more literal. Also, the main character would have to find a magical equivalent of a nuclear bomb to stop the fire from spreading.
Mizhena would explode into fire, set fire to the camp and then whole Flaming Fist name would become much more literal. Also, the main character would have to find a magical equivalent of a nuclear bomb to stop the fire from spreading.
Dear Beamdog,
I retract all my comments about Mizhena's writing being fine and demand that the above changes be made. If my demands are not met, I may resort to writing really whiny forum posts.
I'm mostly just baffled. I never saw that transformers movie but I saw a review or something. There's the Autobots and Decepticons, huge intergalactic races. And they're having a battle to the death. And for no reason it's happening on earth. That's what I feel like. Why is this happening here?
I'm mostly just baffled. I never saw that transformers movie but I saw a review or something. There's the Autobots and Decepticons, huge intergalactic races. And they're having a battle to the death. And for no reason it's happening on earth. That's what I feel like. Why is this happening here?
This is actually hilariously suitable metaphor.
I just re-read that comment above in a new light after reading your comment and changed from "like" to "insightful". Also I requested that it be promoted to the "Best Of" list as it is the single best description I have read of the events of the past several weeks here.
The ironic thing is my heart sank when I first saw all the ranting and raving. It sort of ruined my Baldur's Gate experience. (I'm over it.) I mean to me it was about magic and killing whoever I want and hilarious dialog options, etc.
But like, that's the exact same argument all the gamergate people or whoever make. That it's about magic and killing whoever they want and the lore and a couple of writing decisions ruined their Baldur's Gate experience.
I'm not sure what my point is. Something about how whatever is under gamergate's skin is probably not going to effect me at all. All that got under my skin was gamergate. Like something ruined the game for 2% of the players so they're gonna ruin it for 80% of the rest of them. Bah. I could have wrote that better. There's a really poetic way to write whatever I mean. I can't figure it out.
Ooh, I got one more. It's like if a large group of like 20 people went to a restaurant and ordered deluxe pizzas with no onions because only one of them liked onions. And it was the best pizza they ever had. So a month later they all went back and ordered the same thing but the restaurant fucked up and put onions on the pizza. So the one lady who liked onions actually liked the pizza better. Out of the other 19 there were 17 grown-ups who just picked the onions off and it was just as good as it was last time. But then there were two children who whined, "Wah, I don't like onions! I can't eat it!" And their dad was like, "Shut up, just pick the onions off!" But the kids were like, "Noooo!!! The pizza is ruined! The sauce is all oniony now! Wahhhh!!!"
I recommend this game 100% Sure... i had my own little disappointments. But not enough to slam the game. The game is epic in its own right. I enjoyed it.
Ooh, I got one more. It's like if a large group of like 20 people went to a restaurant and ordered deluxe pizzas with no onions because only one of them liked onions. And it was the best pizza they ever had. So a month later they all went back and ordered the same thing but the restaurant fucked up and put onions on the pizza. So the one lady who liked onions actually liked the pizza better. Out of the other 19 there were 17 grown-ups who just picked the onions off and it was just as good as it was last time. But then there were two children who whined, "Wah, I don't like onions! I can't eat it!" And their dad was like, "Shut up, just pick the onions off!" But the kids were like, "Noooo!!! The pizza is ruined! The sauce is all oniony now! Wahhhh!!!"
I wish I could think of an analogy for how many layers there are to this analogy.
I'd recommend it, even if only to "100%" the story.
The two main talking points have been addressed:
1) the TG cleric will get fleshed out some with a more sensible story, not removed. This has appeased many people who complained about it, but there are always those that linger because they took values-based view to it. Just don't confuse those people with everyone else from before, as "see, this is what they were against all along!" I wish the first group would go remove the old negative comments though, maybe they are waiting for the update?
2) The Minsc/GG joke was/will be removed. Odds are you would not have run into it anyway.
Other than that, the other arguments have been discussed and generally can be summed up as: - Jaheira and Safana's personality change is unnoticeable. The biggest mistake was the writer admitting she was trying to make a change to established characters. No one of importance and/or influence would have noticed if she said nothing, imo. - The child tells you to kiss her mother's feet regardless of gender, and it does seem more like a kid being a kid, than some hidden message.
Regardless of people's opinions on the subject, it was a risk to even try this. Old game, Old engine, new content, and the minefield that is "canon". But I'd like to see this more often, so people need to support it with their wallet if they agree.
Man if I developed this expansion and people raised this much hell about it I would pretend to take feedback and act like the patch was going to address their issues and then I would give them Baldur's Gate: Super Gay Edition. Minsc would come out of the closet. Every line of dialogue you can speak would either have the word "fabulous" in it or have you call someone a big silly. There'd be gay pride parades in Baldur's Gate. You could get a +5 longsword vs cisgenders. And halfway through the game your character would start identifying as the opposite sex and if you were a man then you could only wear a dress, everything else would be highlighted red.
If we were only allowed to click "Like" on one single post in all of these forums, this would be the one.
I'm mostly just baffled. I never saw that transformers movie but I saw a review or something. There's the Autobots and Decepticons, huge intergalactic races. And they're having a battle to the death. And for no reason it's happening on earth. That's what I feel like. Why is this happening here?
What? What idiot reviewed that? Because it's clear in the films WHY the 2 transformer factions are on earth. That comparison doesn't even work here.
Comments
But I would like to hear exactly what is so bad about the design decisions, the UI, the dialogues, the immersion, and progression. Because personally, I think most of these things were pretty well-done.
All the goodwill Beamdog earned over the past few years was pretty soundly obliterated by that hot mess of a patch.
Frkun
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And sorry, but English is not my mother language. You can check my previous posts and see how my English level is even worse back then, so you can stop using as argument a logic fallacy.
As for the bad writing argument, @Frkun has already specified what he considers the writing. The concept itself is far larger than the pedantic use of correct grammar and spelling. It has to do with the way a dialogue is set up, a story unfolds, the reactions we are offered and the consequences of those reactions, the way the dialogues and banter fit into the setting as a whole as well as the personalities of the actors in said setting.
And yes, even if one is not fluent in a given language it is possible to spot inconsistencies, and stories that can be sub par.
Again, I cannot personally judge any of it until I finish my play through but I do think we should remain a bit more civil in the discussion surrounding our beloved games.
Speaking as a native English speaker, and an English teacher, SoD does all those things FAR BETTER than the original BG1, which by modern standards is really rather ropey. You could argue that by doing it better SoD doesn't preserve the naive style of BG1 I suppose.
The writing and UI design are a matter of preference. But there is no denying that SoD stays true to BG1 spirit, it does provide some good fun moments and is a well thought expansion. The 2.1 patch fixed many bugs and the game runs smoothly. I'm satisfied with what I got, enough to sink 55 hours or so to finish 2 playthroughs, and will replay when I get more free time. It scratched that BG itch and I got my money's worth. Forget about what people who haven't played the game say and try it for yourselves, you might be surprised.
I'm mostly just baffled. I never saw that transformers movie but I saw a review or something. There's the Autobots and Decepticons, huge intergalactic races. And they're having a battle to the death. And for no reason it's happening on earth. That's what I feel like. Why is this happening here?
Also, the main character would have to find a magical equivalent of a nuclear bomb to stop the fire from spreading.
I retract all my comments about Mizhena's writing being fine and demand that the above changes be made. If my demands are not met, I may resort to writing really whiny forum posts.
Yours truly,
joluv
But like, that's the exact same argument all the gamergate people or whoever make. That it's about magic and killing whoever they want and the lore and a couple of writing decisions ruined their Baldur's Gate experience.
I'm not sure what my point is. Something about how whatever is under gamergate's skin is probably not going to effect me at all. All that got under my skin was gamergate. Like something ruined the game for 2% of the players so they're gonna ruin it for 80% of the rest of them. Bah. I could have wrote that better. There's a really poetic way to write whatever I mean. I can't figure it out.
Sure... i had my own little disappointments. But not enough to slam the game. The game is epic in its own right. I enjoyed it.
The two main talking points have been addressed:
1) the TG cleric will get fleshed out some with a more sensible story, not removed. This has appeased many people who complained about it, but there are always those that linger because they took values-based view to it. Just don't confuse those people with everyone else from before, as "see, this is what they were against all along!" I wish the first group would go remove the old negative comments though, maybe they are waiting for the update?
2) The Minsc/GG joke was/will be removed. Odds are you would not have run into it anyway.
Other than that, the other arguments have been discussed and generally can be summed up as:
- Jaheira and Safana's personality change is unnoticeable. The biggest mistake was the writer admitting she was trying to make a change to established characters. No one of importance and/or influence would have noticed if she said nothing, imo.
- The child tells you to kiss her mother's feet regardless of gender, and it does seem more like a kid being a kid, than some hidden message.
Regardless of people's opinions on the subject, it was a risk to even try this. Old game, Old engine, new content, and the minefield that is "canon". But I'd like to see this more often, so people need to support it with their wallet if they agree.
Can we please be friends?