For everyone that says DEX becomes less important at high levels, that simply isn't true.
Every 1 bonus to AC is a flat 5% miss chance, regardless of level/THAC0 unless the enemy only misses on a 1. It just becomes a matter of the enemy going from a 25% to 20% chance to hit early in BG1 to going from 85% to 80% in TOB. They are still rolling the same d20, so each point is worth the same as it always was.
Going from 5% to 10% is a 5% decrease in damage. Going from 90% to 95% is a 50% decrease in damage. Ten times difference for the same single point. Dex/AC isnt useless, it just requires a dedicated build in ToB, and Paladin isnt likely to be the one suited for that, especially not the one with dumped con.
Having -5 AC or having +5 AC makes no difference in ToB. You'd have to go much higher. Demogorgon has thac0 -12(or perhaps more), youd have to have at least AC -14 in order for him not having hit you every time.
For the question : Rather sounds weird but I would go for CON. First because "Ressurection" below less than 10 is like 30% of succes if I remember. Second, because a barbarian without high hp is like... a mage without spells
If the protagonist dies, the game is finished anyway, so resurrection is not really an issue here... Or is this changed in EE? Was there any discussion about it?
This won't be changed in EE. Without getting into details, your having never died is crucial to the storyline.
Going from 5% to 10% is a 5% decrease in damage. Going from 90% to 95% is a 50% decrease in damage. Ten times difference for the same single point. Dex/AC isnt useless, it just requires a dedicated build in ToB, and Paladin isnt likely to be the one suited for that, especially not the one with dumped con.
Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I don't get the calculation behind your claim (90 to 95%)
The whole point of having those armor clad guys up front is for them to take the beating, right? Then you better make sure they are actually capable of taking said beating.
Sure, avoidance is useful at the front lines as well, but the concept of the "shield wall" is hardly derived from the idea of walls as something particulary hard to hit.
With the above said I realise that most Paladins would probably go two-handed, especially in SoA for one appearent reason. This would mean a stronger case for dexterity beacuse of the lack of a shield. However, this means taking gear into the equasion, which in itself makes those gauntlets impossible to overlook...
@OperativeNL Example: Greg is attacked by a horde of vicious rats doing combined 20 attacks per round and has good enough AC to only be hit on a roll of 19. Each attack does 7 damage.
Now, in one round he gets hit for a total of 14 damage (rolls of 19 and 20). Now Greg equips his ring of Protection +1, granting a 5% lesser chance to hit. Thus he can only be hit by a 20.
Next round he gets hit for a total of 7 damage (roll of 20). As a result of this, seemingly small chage he doubled his life expectancy.
Which is why it is absolutely imperative to either go max AC or not bother at all, it simply doesnt matter much with lower values. Since getting high AC is quite a task later, people usually say to not bother at all in ToB, which i disagree with, but whatever.
@Roller12 Ah, now I understand. So if the rats would have hit on a 11 or higher (without ring) and 12 or higher (with ring) the damage would be 70 vs 63. That's a smaller percentual difference, but an equal difference in actual damage taken
It does get interesting when taken into account at the extreme ends of the spectrum, fighting either enemies that hardly hit at all (only on a crit) or that hit always (Thac0 -12 etc as in ToB)
@Arktosa Damn, I haven't considered multi! Thx! I guess this puts the eternal debate with my friends on who should play the protagonist in our playthrough into a new light
7 damage? From a rat? Those are going to have to be man-sized rats! If they are normal rats, every round, he is likely to hit and kill one anyhow, reducing his number of chances to be hit. Unless he is just standing there.
Constitution. You're eventually going to be in heavy armor and while dex still applies the ability to endure will be more important. Especially when you carry over to BG 2 EE and you end up with armor that makes you nigh untouchable anyway.
Whilst for me and the types of character I like to play, Dexterity forever, for a Paladin, Constitution forever. You should be rocking at very least Fullplate and Paladin buffs, possibly even a shield. This applies doubly so with the kits which deny the Paladin access to ranged weapons.
Constitution. Simply because you can find the dexterity gloves very early in the game that lock your dex to 18. Other than that: It's very easy to roll good stats with a paladin - not despite of their high noncombat stats but BECAUSE of their high noncombat stats. Paladins and Rangers are the easiest classes to reach a total score of 90.
Also for the same reason, an elf ranger is meant to be one of the easiest classes to roll good stats for. This is one of the reasons (as well as the +1 THAC0 with bows) why elf archers are lethal
Regarding favouring Dex or Con, my heart says Dex, because I like the idea of nimble characters, rather than hulking brutes, but for a Paladin Con is probably more important, especially in the later game, so I voted for that.
If it was a choice between 16 Dex/18 Con and 17 Dex/17 Con, I'd go for the latter, though.
Also don't forget you can get access to tomes to boost most stats by +1 (or more, for Wis) in BG1, and I usually give these to CHARNAME, even in BGT where you can carry NPCs through to BG2. The Con tome, in particular, is easy to get early on.
This is particularly something to bear in mind for Str and one of the reasons I try to go for Str 18, *especially* for non-Fighters (which can't get 18/xx scores) who are likely to enter melee (i.e. clerics, thieves, monks and bards), as you can boost Str to 19, which is *much* better than a straight 18 for non-fighters.
Ignoring the gauntlets of dexterity, because I hate the idea of forever locking off an item slot to overcome an inherent character flaw, I would go for dexterity.
For a start you only need to put it to 17 (which is still good), because you'll get +1 in Baldur's Gate. Second as a paladin you get a good base HP already (I am assuming you'll go for maximum HP every level), and with the point saved from not putting dexterity to 18, you should be able to get 15/16 or so in constitution, which becomes +3hp with the tome.
So initially it would be a mix... which some might say is bad. But after getting those tomes you're looking at 18dex/16con at least, which is better than having it the other way around I think.
If you're playing as a paladin, then tank it to the max. Max out Con. It's more useful to have a shitton of HP during the earlier levels, and as for dex, I'm pretty sure there's some decent dex-increasing gear you can get fairly early in BG1. Could be remembering wrong, but I am pretty sure. Yup.
Constitution, for the stated reason that 45 bonus HP are nothing to scoff at, if you've got a 19. Additionally they enable you to better withstand Power Word:Kill and Stun.
Moreover, as soon as you hit CON 20 you start regenerating HP. Which means that you're potentially able to leave one area critically wounded and arrive in another fully healed.
And as others have already stated, in contrast to PnP, where high minimum requirements are a hurdle, they're only beneficial in Infinity Engine games.
That's because the pc rolls for every stat, even for those with high minimum requirements. To illustrate that point: Both a Fighter and a Paladin character want the following stats: 18, 18, 18, 8, 13, 17 A Fighter has to roll 18+18+18+8+13+17=92, a Paladin only 18+18+18+8+3+3=68, due to his stat requirements. That's because every roll under a minimum requirement will be raised to it, e.g. 3->17 for a Paladin's CHA.
For a start you only need to put it to 17 (which is still good), because you'll get +1 in Baldur's Gate. Second as a paladin you get a good base HP already (I am assuming you'll go for maximum HP every level),
Why would you get max HP per level? That's cheating and OP in my book
@Oxford_Guy Would you call everyone playing on the two lowest difficulty settings a cheater? Because on those two settings you'll get maximised HP rolls.
@Oxford_Guy Would you call everyone playing on the two lowest difficulty settings a cheater? Because on those two settings you'll get maximised HP rolls.
10th
I didn't realise you got max HP in the lower difficulty levels, as have always played on core, sorry I didn't meant to offend anyone
This poll is looking like a US presidential election...
I chose CON. Although the OP asked to disregard items, I can't think of many that boost CON. But might I suggest, you stat out your Paladin for reasons other than maximum mechanical advantage? Do you want him quicker, or tougher. The mechanics work out to a wash.
So amusingly, when I voted, it was a 50-49 split with only 2 votes separating the pair. That tells you either 2 things; we all live in Florida or they are both equally important depending on the play style.
If I had to choose for you it would be CON because you are probably going to playing this character as a front line fighter. The extra hp at the beginning of the game does come in handy more than AC
I could suggest to think outside the box and max both of those and gimp your Strength. Use range weapons and when you need to tank it, chug one of the many potions of Strength that can be found in both games.
I chose CON. Although the OP asked to disregard items, I can't think of many that boost CON.
There's a CON-boosting Girdle you can get in BG2 early on. I usually give it to Aerie, but it's a bonus that needs to be activated and I mostly forget to do so, even as she's wearing it. The Gauntlets of DEX are much more useful in that regard - wear and forget.
Comments
Every 1 bonus to AC is a flat 5% miss chance, regardless of level/THAC0 unless the enemy only misses on a 1. It just becomes a matter of the enemy going from a 25% to 20% chance to hit early in BG1 to going from 85% to 80% in TOB. They are still rolling the same d20, so each point is worth the same as it always was.
Having -5 AC or having +5 AC makes no difference in ToB. You'd have to go much higher. Demogorgon has thac0 -12(or perhaps more), youd have to have at least AC -14 in order for him not having hit you every time.
Still in general I mean and for multiplayer games. If the PC dies in multiplayers it ends but you can built like 5 others main too XD
Sure, avoidance is useful at the front lines as well, but the concept of the "shield wall" is hardly derived from the idea of walls as something particulary hard to hit.
Example: Greg is attacked by a horde of vicious rats doing combined 20 attacks per round and has good enough AC to only be hit on a roll of 19. Each attack does 7 damage.
Now, in one round he gets hit for a total of 14 damage (rolls of 19 and 20). Now Greg equips his ring of Protection +1, granting a 5% lesser chance to hit. Thus he can only be hit by a 20.
Next round he gets hit for a total of 7 damage (roll of 20). As a result of this, seemingly small chage he doubled his life expectancy.
Which is why it is absolutely imperative to either go max AC or not bother at all, it simply doesnt matter much with lower values. Since getting high AC is quite a task later, people usually say to not bother at all in ToB, which i disagree with, but whatever.
Ah, now I understand. So if the rats would have hit on a 11 or higher (without ring) and 12 or higher (with ring) the damage would be 70 vs 63. That's a smaller percentual difference, but an equal difference in actual damage taken
It does get interesting when taken into account at the extreme ends of the spectrum, fighting either enemies that hardly hit at all (only on a crit) or that hit always (Thac0 -12 etc as in ToB)
Regarding favouring Dex or Con, my heart says Dex, because I like the idea of nimble characters, rather than hulking brutes, but for a Paladin Con is probably more important, especially in the later game, so I voted for that.
If it was a choice between 16 Dex/18 Con and 17 Dex/17 Con, I'd go for the latter, though.
Also don't forget you can get access to tomes to boost most stats by +1 (or more, for Wis) in BG1, and I usually give these to CHARNAME, even in BGT where you can carry NPCs through to BG2. The Con tome, in particular, is easy to get early on.
This is particularly something to bear in mind for Str and one of the reasons I try to go for Str 18, *especially* for non-Fighters (which can't get 18/xx scores) who are likely to enter melee (i.e. clerics, thieves, monks and bards), as you can boost Str to 19, which is *much* better than a straight 18 for non-fighters.
For a start you only need to put it to 17 (which is still good), because you'll get +1 in Baldur's Gate. Second as a paladin you get a good base HP already (I am assuming you'll go for maximum HP every level), and with the point saved from not putting dexterity to 18, you should be able to get 15/16 or so in constitution, which becomes +3hp with the tome.
So initially it would be a mix... which some might say is bad. But after getting those tomes you're looking at 18dex/16con at least, which is better than having it the other way around I think.
Moreover, as soon as you hit CON 20 you start regenerating HP. Which means that you're potentially able to leave one area critically wounded and arrive in another fully healed.
And as others have already stated, in contrast to PnP, where high minimum requirements are a hurdle, they're only beneficial in Infinity Engine games.
That's because the pc rolls for every stat, even for those with high minimum requirements. To illustrate that point:
Both a Fighter and a Paladin character want the following stats: 18, 18, 18, 8, 13, 17
A Fighter has to roll 18+18+18+8+13+17=92, a Paladin only 18+18+18+8+3+3=68, due to his stat requirements. That's because every roll under a minimum requirement will be raised to it, e.g. 3->17 for a Paladin's CHA.
10th
Would you call everyone playing on the two lowest difficulty settings a cheater? Because on those two settings you'll get maximised HP rolls.
10th
10th
I chose CON. Although the OP asked to disregard items, I can't think of many that boost CON.
But might I suggest, you stat out your Paladin for reasons other than maximum mechanical advantage? Do you want him quicker, or tougher. The mechanics work out to a wash.
STR: 16
DEX: 18
CON: 15
INT: 12
WIS: 13
CHA: 17
With tomes, he will be:
STR: 17
DEX: 19
CON: 16
INT: 13
WIS: 16
CHA: 18
If I had to choose for you it would be CON because you are probably going to playing this character as a front line fighter. The extra hp at the beginning of the game does come in handy more than AC
I could suggest to think outside the box and max both of those and gimp your Strength. Use range weapons and when you need to tank it, chug one of the many potions of Strength that can be found in both games.