Breaking Role: What kits can be played in strange ways?

Halfwise

So I'm curious, I see people ask about various classes all the time, and people generally talk about the best way to play them... but I was wondering if anyone has ever played a kit differently from the way it was intended to be played?

A Barbarian with a bow?
A Mage in the thick of things?
A Druid Tank? (Not druid/fighter, obviously)

Tell me, are there any classes/kits you are aware of that can be played differently from what is considered normal? and if so, how? How did it work out for you if you tried it?

Jarrakul

A rather famous example is the ranged kensai. Kensai (in the BG games) can use ranged weapons that also have a melee options (throwing knives and throwing axes), and are almost distressingly good with them. It's a bit rough in BG1, when there are no magical returning daggers and only one late-game magical returning axe, but in BG2 they're some of the strongest ranged combatants in the game, and their AC disadvantage is mostly irrelevant because they're not on the front line.

Mages in the thick of things and druid tanks are both very good, because in both cases, their spells are better than physical defenses (druids can also wear ankheg plate, so their physical defenses are nothing to sneeze at either).

Lord_Tansheron

Halfwise said:

A Mage in the thick of things?

Mages are fantastic tanks. Since tanking isn't actually tied to dealing damage, you can easily just have a mage in full protective spells stand there and eat dragon hits all day long.

A Fighter/Mage hybrid (various sorts possibly) is the best tank for some of the hardest enemies in the game.

Vallmyr

Blade Bard with a crossbow of speed/The Army Scythe. Three attacks a round with offensive spin.

Jarrakul

Vallmyr said:

Blade Bard with a crossbow of speed/The Army Scythe. Three attacks a round with offensive spin.

I would argue this is actually the best way to play a blade in BG1. Less so in BG2, where dual wielding is crazy strong, but it should still basically work.

marzbarz

Avenger to fighter duel class allows for the shapeshifting and such later on. Makes things kinda interesting and fun. Also spider form/web/is cool cause you can still walk through it unhindered and pick off enemies.

Kamigoroshi

An agile Dwarven Defender clad in nothing but leather armor. Throw in a buckler and dagger for good measures and extra barrel roll action.

Blackorb

Archer dual classed to a cleric who uses a sling ( archer kit bonuses will work for all ranged weapons including sling), you cant put 5 pips in a sling but it will still hurt a lot. Ofcourse a pure archer focused on a bow would be better but hey it is weird and kind of fun xd.

elminster

I'm going to go with a Beast Master specializing in darts.

That said the beast master is a weird kit by itself, because other than maybe summoning (which comes really late) it doesn't have a clear focus.

amyae

Probably Definitely cheating, but I've Shadowkeepered a Wild Mage/Cleric multiclass in BGT and it's really fun. You wild surge on divine spells as well as arcane, so it's more than twice as many chances of being randomly TPK'd by a falling cow
(Haven't tried it in EE though, not sure if it works the same.)

elminster

Pretty sure divine magic doesn't wild surge in the EEs.

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

An idea I've had that I'm not entirely sure is viable is a Punch-Mage.

That is, a mage who memorizes nothing but spells like Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, and Vampiric Touch, and spends combats punching enemies to death with their magic spells.

amyae

elminster said:

Pretty sure divine magic doesn't wild surge in the EEs.

Just tested it out of curiosity, confirmed that divine spells can indeed wild surge in EE. (So can Bhaalspawn abilities, incidentally.)

mf2112

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive said:

An idea I've had that I'm not entirely sure is viable is a Punch-Mage.

That is, a mage who memorizes nothing but spells like Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, and Vampiric Touch, and spends combats punching enemies to death with their magic spells.

Sounds like a potential monk kit.

lunar

A cleric of Helm that loses his belief and duals into thief. Such a heretic character will backstab with the sword of seeking for the ultimate blasphemy!

Pteran

lunar said:

A cleric of Helm that loses his belief and duals into thief. Such a heretic character will backstab with the sword of seeking for the ultimate blasphemy!

That sounds like it would be a really entertaining character to play and write about!

I'm bringing up a Cavalier through BG1 right now. His views at first are pretty black and white, but as time advances he's going to have his eyes opened up to the world of grey. I haven't decided exactly when, but he's going to eventually embrace his dark side and become a Black Guard. Good companions may very well revolt at this shift, meaning he'll need to find new allies partway through his journey.

Of course I'll have to RP a lot of this and effect the changes with EEKeeper, but it makes for an interesting story.

marzbarz

A mage bow user.

Go fighter for at least 2 lvls and max out (2 at that lvl ) whatever bow type, Can also wait if your playing only bg2 for more levels in bow to help out with better bow skills. Beats the classic sling mage...meh....

Can also go daggers but more specialization and the +5 throwing firetooth in bg2 is amazing.

Basically just a mage with a little more survivability in bg1 but also the ability to use bows and some other goodies.

Ive seen people do the reverse, one level in mage/cleric so they can use the identify as a warrior and also the wands and stuff.

marzbarz

You can also start off as a fighter, go to level 2 to duel, and go thief. Youll regain your abilities pretty quick, and it allows for a lot more starting health, and the real bonus imo, is the ability to use helms/larger bows, and can start by making your warrior 2points in long bows and 2 points in any other abilities. The thief HLA use all items will also give you the ability to use heavy armor if you wanted to, but the way mentioned allows for bg1 to access the other item types a thief wouldn't use normally and an ability like berserk.

You can make a thief that uses 2 handed swords this way btw and if you grabbed kensai/berserker it allows for another ability to use, but your gonna want higher str for obvious reasons and to use those bows.
Also allows your mages to use other weapons too.

This is probably better for rp reasons

Skatan

The ranged kensai has already been mentioned and it's a great example. Same with Archer not focusing on bows or xbows. Here's another couple of ideas:

I know I've seen someone try melee sorc/dd. You got great defense, but obviously less stellar offensive.

Blackguard ranged isn't really unique, but seeing a blaggard chucking throwing knives or darts just for poison distribution is probably not super-common and hardly the 'intended' modus operandi. Their APR is way better than an assassin's though.

A blade weilding twohanded weapons. Apparently oil of speed stacks with off.spin so you get 3 APR with a huge twohander. This is ofc not the way the blade is intended to be played, they are made for dualweilding and/or ranged.

magisensei

I made a kensai that mastered the staff - I wanted a monk with staff but since that wasn't possible, I made a kensai and pretended it to be a monk with all points in staff and two-handed style.

Jarrakul

magisensei said:

I made a kensai that mastered the staff - I wanted a monk with staff but since that wasn't possible, I made a kensai and pretended it to be a monk with all points in staff and two-handed style.

It actually really bothers me that monks can't use staves in BG. I mean, staves are probably the most monk-like weapons in the game, but they can't use them. It's annoying.

marzbarz

Probably the unique hand fighting combat animation hehe

But ive done kensai staff user too the minute I noticed 2h weps work with them.

I might make a 2h sword thief now that I thought of it and noticed its do able lol. Or a mage with slightly more health/crossbows for when im outa spells

marzbarz

Dunno about this or if its doable now, but if you can eekeeper the archer abilities to be used with sling, then duel to cleric? and 5 points in that? That would be the most op casting class/archer due to larger access to spells and the 5pts in sling and pretty awesome slings you can get in bg2?

Haha imagine duel sling user....

magisensei

marzbarz said:

Dunno about this or if its doable now, but if you can eekeeper the archer abilities to be used with sling, then duel to cleric? and 5 points in that? That would be the most op casting class/archer due to larger access to spells and the 5pts in sling and pretty awesome slings you can get in bg2?

Haha imagine duel sling user....

I don't think you need keeper to do it. The archer kits gets the "+" for all missile weapons and that includes slings. Of course you'd have to play the entire trilogy to fully maximize the duel PC.

Sids1188

marzbarz said:

Dunno about this or if its doable now, but if you can eekeeper the archer abilities to be used with sling, then duel to cleric? and 5 points in that? That would be the most op casting class/archer due to larger access to spells and the 5pts in sling and pretty awesome slings you can get in bg2?

Haha imagine duel sling user....

You wouldn't be able to put 5 pts in sling, but the other archer bonuses and called shot would work. You'd probably have pretty similar results with a 5 pip fighter cleric, or a fighter dualed to mage with gm in bows or kensai/druid with throwing daggers.

Achterklad

Vallmyr said:

Blade Bard with a crossbow of speed/The Army Scythe. Three attacks a round with offensive spin.

Seconded. Blades make great archers.

TheArtisan

Halfling barbarian with slings, max DEX/CON, 15+ STR. Barbarian rage not only increases sling damage, but also shorty saves. One of the best barbarian builds out there imo.

Grum

Swashbuckler. Full plate armor. He becomes the best non-caster tank when it comes to not being hit.

sluckers

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive said:

An idea I've had that I'm not entirely sure is viable is a Punch-Mage.

That is, a mage who memorizes nothing but spells like Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, and Vampiric Touch, and spends combats punching enemies to death with their magic spells.

@Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive The 'Punch Mage' is actually doable as a mage/thief dual or multi. Not crazy powerful but definitely loads of fun. I played around with it when I was on my cleric-backstab slay-living kick. The striking from invisibility really enhances the effectiveness of those touch spells.

Assuming standard invisibility provides the same bonuses, memorizing touch spells and lots of invisibility might work.

semiticgoddess

The reason for the monk's inability to use staffs is indeed a failure to include the right animations. If you equip a staff on a character with the monk animation (EEKeeper for Use Any Item or to change the sprite), the character will do the normal monk animations, with the staff flailing around independently. It looks like the monk is using telekinesis to make the staff float around and attack on its own.

Halfwise

@semiticgod
That's actually kinda cool....
Maybe we need a kit called the "Psi-monk"