Ok, lets go back to this story that was posted by Julius.
Avalon Hill, the tabletop games of which seemed to nearly disappear under Hasbro, is seeing new games and new takes on old classics, some of which may soon be heading to tablets.
My interest, bringing some of these vastly complicated, long-to-set-up titles to the iPad or computer, seem to also align both with a larger call for ports and Wizards of the Coast’s experiments. Cocks points to The Lords of Waterdeep, which was published by Wizards in 2012 and then released on iOS a year later, as a good example of that. “I love what Playdek did with that,” he says. “We’ve found that if we can bring new fans in and give them something fun to play, they will generally reward us. There is a great synergy between digital and table-top players.” But why, I ask, hasn’t Axis and Allies come to tablet yet? “I think we will be correcting that in 12 to 18 months,” he says. “We might throw some fun variants in there as well. I want to to make new games. I want to make variants of existing games. What about Axis and Allies and Zombies?”
So yes, WotC is interested in expanding their Avalon Hill titles to mobile platforms and will market it.
Yeah. Only a couple of days after I post about being hyped by what I was seeing with Beamdog, this news. It's not just disappointing but actually rather scary and worrisome. The whole point of bringing in @David_Gaider was to have him at the center of Beamdog's new original IP game. So this news makes me extremely skeptical about the prospects of this new game. I mean, even if the game's development goes on, I am now unconvinced that Beamdog can pull off a well-written, quality cRPG.
Oh, and if we subsequently hear that Chris Avellone is the replacement for Gaider (which I have a sneaking suspicion will be the case), that would make me feel worse rather than better.
Yeah. Only a couple of days after I post about being hyped by what I was seeing with Beamdog, this news. It's not just disappointing but actually rather scary and worrisome. The whole point of bringing in @David_Gaider was to have him at the center of Beamdog's new original IP game. So this news makes me extremely skeptical about the prospects of this new game. I mean, even if the game's development goes on, I am now unconvinced that Beamdog can pull off a well-written, quality cRPG.
Oh, and if we subsequently hear that Chris Avellone is the replacement for Gaider (which I have a sneaking suspicion will be the case), that would make me feel worse rather than better.
Whats wrong with Chris Avellone aside for hating Star Wars?
He had his day, but his recent work has not been particularly good imho. I especially did not care for his work in PoE1 at all. Plus, I've found some of the ways in which he has behaved since leaving Obsidian to be off-putting to me. Comes across as a whiney primadonna.
Whats wrong with Chris Avellone aside for hating Star Wars?
I like some of his work (Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2, Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity), but I'm not too fond of his general way of acting since he left Obsidian. I also never really enjoyed Avellone "romances", which aren't so much romances as "friends fond of each other". One of the cool things about BG2, NWN1, and KOTOR1 was the character development options. Mr. Avellone's character development always centers around one or two characters. It "works" for his stories, but I much prefer the more expansive character development that I've seen from Mr. Gaider.
Honestly, Mr. Avellone doesn't matter much in this situation, as he's already working on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The point is, it's NOT a good sign that Mr. Gaider is leaving Beamdog, in my opinion.
Its entirely possible that this mean the major writing portion of the new IP is done, and Gaider was a temporary contract. Considering SoDs generally high quality of writing, I'm not concerned with Beamdog's ability to write stories without him.
Its entirely possible that this mean the major writing portion of the new IP is done, and Gaider was a temporary contract. Considering SoDs generally high quality of writing, I'm not concerned with Beamdog's ability to write stories without him.
I sincerely hope that this is the case. It is promising to hear the following (from the above blog).
Most lasting, Dave has built a creative team that will shape the stories Beamdog tells in the years to come. He has freely shared his incredible wealth of storytelling and narrative design experience with the developers, designers, and artists around him. We’ve all learned a lot from Dave and we hope he picked up a trick or two from us as well.
Its entirely possible that this mean the major writing portion of the new IP is done, and Gaider was a temporary contract. Considering SoDs generally high quality of writing, I'm not concerned with Beamdog's ability to write stories without him.
Except: Beamdog has lost 2 of 3 writers responsible for SoD.
And the writing wasn't that great truthfully. It had it moments but not enough of them.
Gaider was a huge selling point for Beamdog. If any one was critical of past writing or narrative flow, the company could just point and say "ya well Gaider." For him to leave before anything he has written comes out is a huge blow to Beamdog's public image imo.
And even if his responsibility is done in the new IP (which I don't think it is), you'd still want him around to market and brand the project.
@deltago Which is a real shame. I still think letting go of those writers was a bad move. I disagree with you about SoD, and find its writing, and of the writing in the EEs to be excellent. This is obviously all subjective, but I think Beamdogs have gotten a lot more flak than they deserve.
Whats wrong with Chris Avellone aside for hating Star Wars?
I like some of his work (Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2, Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity), but I'm not too fond of his general way of acting since he left Obsidian. I also never really enjoyed Avellone "romances", which aren't so much romances as "friends fond of each other". One of the cool things about BG2, NWN1, and KOTOR1 was the character development options. Mr. Avellone's character development always centers around one or two characters. It "works" for his stories, but I much prefer the more expansive character development that I've seen from Mr. Gaider.
Honestly, Mr. Avellone doesn't matter much in this situation, as he's already working on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The point is, it's NOT a good sign that Mr. Gaider is leaving Beamdog, in my opinion.
I wasn't a fan of KOTOR II because of Avellone's potshots towards the Jedi and the Force through Kreia's speeches.
@deltago Which is a real shame. I still think letting go of those writers was a bad move. I disagree with you about SoD, and find its writing, and of the writing in the EEs to be excellent. This is obviously all subjective, but I think Beamdogs have gotten a lot more flak than they deserve.
Well, perhaps. But not more flak than can be expected. People have extremely strong emotional connections to these games, so if a tree have - in their subjective view - the wrong shade of green, they take it as of someone just call their baby ugly. And since opionons are like asses - everyones got one, and they are all full f shit - whatever decision you take, even if loved by many, will be hated by many. It is like that story with the farmer, his son and the donkey. However, what have made the situation toxic are the SIWs, the social injustice warriors, who are the most hypersensitive princesses this side of the universe. They had a hissyfit over some minor NPC that continues to this day; if you read reviews of ANY Beamdog game on GOG or whatever, you will find RECENT vitriol by the tonnes.
"Trent Oster said Gaider's departure has been in the works for awhile, so the impact on current projects will be minimal. "Dave was a valued member of our team and has done a lot of great work for us over the last two years," Oster said. "While we're sad to see Dave go, we are anxious to step up and show how we have grown as a studio and as a team."
Whats wrong with Chris Avellone aside for hating Star Wars?
I like some of his work (Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2, Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity), but I'm not too fond of his general way of acting since he left Obsidian. I also never really enjoyed Avellone "romances", which aren't so much romances as "friends fond of each other". One of the cool things about BG2, NWN1, and KOTOR1 was the character development options. Mr. Avellone's character development always centers around one or two characters. It "works" for his stories, but I much prefer the more expansive character development that I've seen from Mr. Gaider.
Honestly, Mr. Avellone doesn't matter much in this situation, as he's already working on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The point is, it's NOT a good sign that Mr. Gaider is leaving Beamdog, in my opinion.
I wasn't a fan of KOTOR II because of Avellone's potshots towards the Jedi and the Force through Kreia's speeches.
The Jedi order code of conduct is self-defeating. Jedi are supposed to live in celibacy, but we also know that midichlorians are passed on through bloodlines. Basically, the Jedi order are sucking up all the good-aligned people with high midichlorian count, then imposing celibacy, ensuring the good people with high midichlorian count are removed from the gene pool. Meanwhile, the Sith breeds like rabbits. Yeah, big surprise there the shit hit the fan eventually - it's all a numbers game.
Whats wrong with Chris Avellone aside for hating Star Wars?
I like some of his work (Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2, Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity), but I'm not too fond of his general way of acting since he left Obsidian. I also never really enjoyed Avellone "romances", which aren't so much romances as "friends fond of each other". One of the cool things about BG2, NWN1, and KOTOR1 was the character development options. Mr. Avellone's character development always centers around one or two characters. It "works" for his stories, but I much prefer the more expansive character development that I've seen from Mr. Gaider.
Honestly, Mr. Avellone doesn't matter much in this situation, as he's already working on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The point is, it's NOT a good sign that Mr. Gaider is leaving Beamdog, in my opinion.
I wasn't a fan of KOTOR II because of Avellone's potshots towards the Jedi and the Force through Kreia's speeches.
The Jedi order code of conduct is self-defeating. Jedi are supposed to live in celibacy, but we also know that midichlorians are passed on through bloodlines. Basically, the Jedi order are sucking up all the good-aligned people with high midichlorian count, then imposing celibacy, ensuring the good people with high midichlorian count are removed from the gene pool. Meanwhile, the Sith breeds like rabbits. Yeah, big surprise there the shit hit the fan eventually - it's all a numbers game.
KOTOR 2 didn't take potshots, it dragged all everything that was wrong about both the Jedi and Sith orders kicking and screaming into the light. I love Star Wars (pre-Disney) but seriously, the Jedi NEEDED to be deconstructed.
chris actually did research and watched alot of star wars before making kotor 2. everything kreia says was just his opinion of the star wars universe. altho in recent years he said he may have went alittle over board and made it sound more spiteful then he intended.
"Trent Oster said Gaider's departure has been in the works for awhile, so the impact on current projects will be minimal. "Dave was a valued member of our team and has done a lot of great work for us over the last two years," Oster said. "While we're sad to see Dave go, we are anxious to step up and show how we have grown as a studio and as a team."
But see, this is the problem. Whereas in the past I would've accepted this at its face value, not any more. Now I read this as: "put on a happy face and spin a disastrous situation." At almost every other gaming forum out there people are having a field-day with this story. It is a PR and reputation disaster for Beamdog.
To say that Gaider's job is now over and he has done his part is utter BS. Nobody ever lets go of their creative director before their project is even announced. Sorry, I'm not buying the spin. This is so very obviously a situation where as the head of creative direction for the company Gaider had strong differences with where Beamdog was going, and so was let go by @TrentOster. If I had to guess, I would say that Gaider probably had strong differences not only with the specific direction of the unannounced project he was heading up, but even also the overall direction of the company, what with NwN:EE now becoming the be-all-end-all queen bee project within the company at the expense of all else.
Such a terrible shame. I was so looking forward to the new game. I had not felt as much excitement about a new game since my anticipation of the release of BG2. Very sad.
Mixed feelings is as if he was happy of the choice to leave.
You'd also think they would have a replacement named if they knew for awhile, unless he wasn't being replaced and the big IP project has been shelved and all those writers are now writing premium modules for NWN:EE. Don't worry about the quality though, they were all hand picked and trained by Gaider
Oh I agree it is likely he wasn't fired, but rather that he resigned because he felt he had no other choice.
I think @TrentOster's vision for the new game is that it be a "new" version of NwN, the NwN game he always wanted to make but previously couldn't, a multiplayer focused game set in a persistent world with modding tools and user-created and premium modules. And I think Gaider wanted to make, and believed he'd been hired precisely to make a classic single player party-based cRPG focused on a strong story, character development, roleplaying and meaningful choices. Two very different creative visions but only one could survive, so Gaider had to go.
Comments
Lets see about that..
PS: 2000th post!
But why, I ask, hasn’t Axis and Allies come to tablet yet? “I think we will be correcting that in 12 to 18 months,” he says. “We might throw some fun variants in there as well. I want to to make new games. I want to make variants of existing games. What about Axis and Allies and Zombies?”
So yes, WotC is interested in expanding their Avalon Hill titles to mobile platforms and will market it.
http://blog.beamdog.com/2018/02/farewell-to-dave.html
Oh, and if we subsequently hear that Chris Avellone is the replacement for Gaider (which I have a sneaking suspicion will be the case), that would make me feel worse rather than better.
Honestly, Mr. Avellone doesn't matter much in this situation, as he's already working on Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The point is, it's NOT a good sign that Mr. Gaider is leaving Beamdog, in my opinion.
And the writing wasn't that great truthfully. It had it moments but not enough of them.
Gaider was a huge selling point for Beamdog. If any one was critical of past writing or narrative flow, the company could just point and say "ya well Gaider." For him to leave before anything he has written comes out is a huge blow to Beamdog's public image imo.
And even if his responsibility is done in the new IP (which I don't think it is), you'd still want him around to market and brand the project.
"Trent Oster said Gaider's departure has been in the works for awhile, so the impact on current projects will be minimal. "Dave was a valued member of our team and has done a lot of great work for us over the last two years," Oster said. "While we're sad to see Dave go, we are anxious to step up and show how we have grown as a studio and as a team."
To say that Gaider's job is now over and he has done his part is utter BS. Nobody ever lets go of their creative director before their project is even announced. Sorry, I'm not buying the spin. This is so very obviously a situation where as the head of creative direction for the company Gaider had strong differences with where Beamdog was going, and so was let go by @TrentOster. If I had to guess, I would say that Gaider probably had strong differences not only with the specific direction of the unannounced project he was heading up, but even also the overall direction of the company, what with NwN:EE now becoming the be-all-end-all queen bee project within the company at the expense of all else.
Such a terrible shame. I was so looking forward to the new game. I had not felt as much excitement about a new game since my anticipation of the release of BG2. Very sad.
Mixed feelings is as if he was happy of the choice to leave.
You'd also think they would have a replacement named if they knew for awhile, unless he wasn't being replaced and the big IP project has been shelved and all those writers are now writing premium modules for NWN:EE. Don't worry about the quality though, they were all hand picked and trained by Gaider
I think @TrentOster's vision for the new game is that it be a "new" version of NwN, the NwN game he always wanted to make but previously couldn't, a multiplayer focused game set in a persistent world with modding tools and user-created and premium modules. And I think Gaider wanted to make, and believed he'd been hired precisely to make a classic single player party-based cRPG focused on a strong story, character development, roleplaying and meaningful choices. Two very different creative visions but only one could survive, so Gaider had to go.
I'm jonesing, man, jonesing real hard!