Abdel is mentioned in The History of the Forgotten Realms source book. Abdel is canon.
I doubt SoD is a set up to BG3, which will be using 5th edition, and therefore can only take place several hundred years after BG2.
Abdel is canon in the PnP game and novels. CHARNAME never existed.
In the CRPGs CHARNAME existed, Abdel didn't.
And the whole point of sealing Skie's body in a Crystal Casket is to preserve it for several hundred years. (otherwise they would have just put it in the ice-house).
AFAIK there is absolutely no hint, that Irenicus might have played some role in CHARNAME's escape.
There was no need for him to do anything. He knew escape was easily within CHARNAME's power.
And if CHARNAME failed, then he/she wasn't powerful enough for Irenicus's purposes anyway.
No he didn't. There was even a risk of the PC being executed on the spot. And there is no mention of the PC having to "be at a certain level" for Irenicus plan to work. He needs the soul. Nothing more.
Really?!!! Because I would expect an executioners blade to bounce off my Stoneskin, just before they exploded into small pieces. Even by the end of SoD the PC has grown so powerful that it would be very difficult for anyone in Baldur's Gate to harm them.
And it is very clearly established that Irenicus doesn't "just need the soul". Even before the dream sequences of Irenicus telling you to embrace Bhaal's power it was made clear in SoA. That is why Irenicus has his agents (Bhodi and Yoshimo) encourage you to run around doing quests in Chapter 2 of SoA.
Can't cast Stoneskin if you are cuffed. And most likely they would take your spellbook away before imprisoning you + not everyone plays as a mage.
The dream sequence isn't Irenicus. It is the Bhaal essence talking to you. Your blood urging you to kill and murder and seek power.
Doesn't matter what class you are, you are still too powerful for anyone in Baldur's Gate to kill easily.
And the last dream sequence confirms that the ones in SoD where sent by Irenicus, not Bhaal.
Nope you are level 8-10. Not very powerful. If you get your head on the block and someone chops your head off you are dead. Bloodline or not. Try playing as a solo Thief and see if you die easily.
I was talking about the dream sequences in BG2. They were clearly not sent by Irenicus. If SoD contradicts this it is a plot-hole.
The whole point is to set up a classic "sleeping beauty" scenario, with Skie's body preserved in a crystal casket waiting to be resurrected when the soultaker dagger is found, at some point in the distant future.
Skie isn't that important or memorable a character to justify a return to the narrative.
Niether was Safina.
Anyway, chances are she would return as the last surviving Bhaalspawn, as well as the heir to an important ruling house. What she was previously doesn't matter.
Besides, WotC have already played that card with Minsc. To do so again with an even less relevant character is unnecessarily repetitive. (And no, pointing out the "inevitability" of repetition does not justify it.)
Abdel isn't part of the CRPG continuity (which is different from the official FR continuity), so that comic never happened.
That aside, you're taking as fact that Beamdog is going to produce BG3 - something that has not been confirmed by anyone in an official capacity.
It's a fact that Beamdog are planning on doing it. It may not happen, but SoD is still planned as the set-up.
I'm assuming the comic referenced was the one that came out a year or two ago where Minsc
was a statue brought to life by a wild magic surge
and is alive many years in the future from the events of BG. I believe that is canon.
And if CHARNAME failed, then he/she wasn't powerful enough for Irenicus's purposes anyway.
Except that the whole reason he sets you up in the first place is because at that point he already knows you're what he's after. What doesn't make sense is that he's then willing to risk his prize in a public trial that could easily have resulted in your execution.
We can't know what would happen if Imoen/Belt hadn't set us free, but I can headcanon that if we weren't freed from prison, Irenicus would have taken us before execution. I think the whole Skie murder scenario was another of his tests, to see how we would react and what we would do. And when he visits us in prison, he learns about our mental fortitude and that we're resisting his efforts. He is still monitoring our progress and should easily be able to pluck us from the scaffold if it came to that.
He needed allies to capture you before BG2. The intro explains this. Powerful he is, but he can't capture a whole party alone.
Which is a mistake on Bioware's part. So he can't capture a team of midlevel adventurers together but he can kill numerous Cowled Wizards before submitting to them? And most likely only submitted to them because he knew his old lab was destroyed and could use their resources to continue his work.
And SoD confirms this. That crater random encounter we discover has a note from Suldanessellar's greatest mage who was tasked with finding and stopping Irenicus. And they were presumably killed by him, causing the crater.
And if CHARNAME failed, then he/she wasn't powerful enough for Irenicus's purposes anyway.
Except that the whole reason he sets you up in the first place is because at that point he already knows you're what he's after. What doesn't make sense is that he's then willing to risk his prize in a public trial that could easily have resulted in your execution.
We can't know what would happen if Imoen/Belt hadn't set us free, but I can headcanon that if we weren't freed from prison, Irenicus would have taken us before execution. I think the whole Skie murder scenario was another of his tests, to see how we would react and what we would do. And when he visits us in prison, he learns about our mental fortitude and that we're resisting his efforts. He is still monitoring our progress and should easily be able to pluck us from the scaffold if it came to that.
He needed allies to capture you before BG2. The intro explains this. Powerful he is, but he can't capture a whole party alone.
Which is a mistake on Bioware's part. So he can't capture a team of midlevel adventurers together but he can kill numerous Cowled Wizards before submitting to them? And most likely only submitted to them because he knew his old lab was destroyed and could use their resources to continue his work.
And SoD confirms this. That crater random encounter we discover has a note from Suldanessellar's greatest mage who was tasked with finding and stopping Irenicus. And they were presumably killed by him, causing the crater.
There are limits to how many people you can teleport at once. + he clearly needs allies all the time. Drow, Vampires etc. He isn't all powerful at all. You actually defeat him at Spellhold and he ends up fleeing. He is a high level mage, nothing more.
The Cowled Wizards aren't that kickass, though. Most of them are fairly low-level. And it is clear that he surrenders because "our numbers are many. You will be overwhelmed". He made the most of the situation and got Imoen taken with him.
I was talking about the dream sequences in BG2. They were clearly not sent by Irenicus. If SoD contradicts this it is a plot-hole.
Indeed. I feel like having him be so directly linked to the SOD sequences was the writers missing the point of SOA again. I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot that detail entirely, and thought the BG2 sequences were really him as well.
What could be the possible point of bringing Skie back? Presumably the plot would be let's bring back Skie and whoops we freed irenicus too, right?
But why? She's a whiny unmemorable unimportant brat. That's her thin characterization. You're going on a great quest to bring back her? Why? Find a better plot hook get Pete's sake. After 1000s of years Skie is about as unimportant as a fart in the wind. Entar probably had other kids too even. After time for grieving, he'd be like well that really sucked but I guess she never listened, she shouldn't have been out there anyway too. If she hadn't run away to begin with this might never have happened
+ he clearly needs allies all the time. Drow, Vampires etc. He isn't all powerful at all. You actually defeat him at Spellhold and he ends up fleeing. He is a high level mage, nothing more.
If anything, it seems like he uses them because some things are beneath him. Why the Duergar? For smithing and torture work, nothing he couldn't do himself, but why bother. He wants your throat slit post-ritual, but he lets Bodhi handle it because he doesn't want to, clearly not because he can't. And if 30th level mage feels too mundane for you, it's probably because you've played Throne of Bhaal too many times. Most people in the Forgotten Realms see Elminster as omnipotent and basically a demigod himself, and Irenicus is higher level than him. From the POV of an 8th level SOD party, he may as well be a god.
The Cowled Wizards aren't that kickass, though. Most of them are fairly low-level. And it is clear that he surrenders because "our numbers are many. You will be overwhelmed". He made the most of the situation and got Imoen taken with him.
Judging by the ones that fight you when you cast spells, most of them seem to be at least level 12, if not 14. Higher level than your SOD party, for sure. And it seems pretty clear that he could have kept fighting longer or escaped the wizards, but he wouldn't have been able to keep Charname or Imoen with him while doing so, and with his hideout compromised, he definitely needed a replacement, if only to make sure Shadow Thieves didn't interfere again.
+ he clearly needs allies all the time. Drow, Vampires etc. He isn't all powerful at all. You actually defeat him at Spellhold and he ends up fleeing. He is a high level mage, nothing more.
If anything, it seems like he uses them because some things are beneath him. Why the Duergar? For smithing and torture work, nothing he couldn't do himself, but why bother. He wants your throat slit post-ritual, but he lets Bodhi handle it because he doesn't want to, clearly not because he can't. And if 30th level mage feels too mundane for you, it's probably because you've played Throne of Bhaal too many times. Most people in the Forgotten Realms see Elminster as omnipotent and basically a demigod himself, and Irenicus is higher level than him. From the POV of an 8th level SOD party, he may as well be a god.
The Cowled Wizards aren't that kickass, though. Most of them are fairly low-level. And it is clear that he surrenders because "our numbers are many. You will be overwhelmed". He made the most of the situation and got Imoen taken with him.
Judging by the ones that fight you when you cast spells, most of them seem to be at least level 12, if not 14. Higher level than your SOD party, for sure. And it seems pretty clear that he could have kept fighting longer or escaped the wizards, but he wouldn't have been able to keep Charname or Imoen with him while doing so, and with his hideout compromised, he definitely needed a replacement, if only to make sure Shadow Thieves didn't interfere again.
1. Player's Handbook. You can only teleport a certain number of people based on your level. If you teleport an unwilling target, the target gets to make a saving throw too.
2. Irenicus is not at a higher level that Elmister. No chance. Elminster is effectively closer to level 60, due to his demi-god abilities etc. Irenicus is a high level wizard. Around level 20, or lower. He doesn't use any level 9 spells, I believe.
3. He could have kept fighting, yes. But he would have run out of spells eventually. His hideout was compromised, though. That much is true. Eventually the Cowled Wizards would have brought in their top dogs too, and he wouldn't have won in any case. Irenicus vs a large city? Nope. The elves defeated him too. Cut off his connection to the tree etc. And the elves, as we see, aren't that powerful.
1. Heh, well, power of the plot seems to ignore that little limitation on teleportation spells all the time, so I can't take it seriously as a limitation now.
2. http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Elminsterhttp://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Jon_Irenicus The game designers had different numbers in mind than you. And seriously, have you ever fought him? Because he has level 9 spells left and right, multiple Time Stops, Absolute Immunities, Power Word: Kills, Wail of the Banshee, He probably casts over a dozen level 9 spells if the fight goes long enough. Seriously, it's hard to believe you've actually played the game all the way through if you didn't know this.
3. Maybe, maybe not. The point is he could have handled a few Flaming Fists to get to you if he needed to. And judging by his multiple visits to you in the Palace and elsewhere, he wouldn't really need to.
So Irenicus frames the PC for murder. Then what? How will he manage to get the PC's soul if the PC gets executed for the murder? Getting the PC's soul is what he is after, after all. Hence why he doesn't actually attack you in BG2 before he has it.
I think he frames the PC knowing the PC will escape Baldur's Gate, I mean, Irenicus can't get the PC in the Ducal Palace while under the protection of the Flaming Fist, he needs to do something that makes the entire city not miss the PC one bit.
He could, but not without slaughtering hundreds, which would attract the attention of other very powerful individuals, such as Elminster.
High level mages are basically Nukes. They can't use their full power directly without triggering Mutually Assured Destruction, so they act subtly, and use proxies.
My point exactly, he would want to be discreet in capturing the PC, not stir up a commotion that might end with the kidnapping operation failing. Look at what happened to Caelar's assassins.
Abdel is mentioned in The History of the Forgotten Realms source book. Abdel is canon.
I doubt SoD is a set up to BG3, which will be using 5th edition, and therefore can only take place several hundred years after BG2.
Abdel is canon in the PnP game and novels. CHARNAME never existed.
In the CRPGs CHARNAME existed, Abdel didn't.
And the whole point of sealing Skie's body in a Crystal Casket is to preserve it for several hundred years. (otherwise they would have just put it in the ice-house).
In my head-canon, Abdel and Charname both exist, but because of being framed for murder, Charname's reputation being destroyed as the Hero of Baldur's Gate, the people of Baldur's Gate choose to remember Charname as one of the villainous Bhaalspawn, but later they handpicked Abdel to be the hero of Baldur's Gate replacing Charname, recording in the history books that Abdel stopped the iron crisis and killed Sarevok, even though he wasn't really involved in it and they don't suspect him to be a Bhaalspawn, which he is.
In other words, they selected a false hero in place of the true hero so that the iron crisis incident can be recorded in the history of the Forgotten Realms, with the hero who actually or allegedly stopped it included, and we all know a character we can customize cannot be canonically recorded.
So Irenicus frames the PC for murder. Then what? How will he manage to get the PC's soul if the PC gets executed for the murder? Getting the PC's soul is what he is after, after all. Hence why he doesn't actually attack you in BG2 before he has it.
I think he frames the PC knowing the PC will escape Baldur's Gate, I mean, Irenicus can't get the PC in the Ducal Palace while under the protection of the Flaming Fist, he needs to do something that makes the entire city not miss the PC one bit.
He could, but not without slaughtering hundreds, which would attract the attention of other very powerful individuals, such as Elminster.
High level mages are basically Nukes. They can't use their full power directly without triggering Mutually Assured Destruction, so they act subtly, and use proxies.
My point exactly, he would want to be discreet in capturing the PC, not stir up a commotion that might end with the kidnapping operation failing. Look at what happened to Caelar's assassins.
But the Hooded Man is easily able to be in the PC's bedroom of the palace at the beginning of the game without causing a disruption like the assassins. Most likely because Irenicus isn't an idiot like they were. And he is able to visit the PC is the FF jail before they escape. So I think it's very likely that he could have easily kidnapped the PC at any point during SoD, before or after the trial, and did not do so because he was testing their suitability for his spells.
He even says something to the effect in the palace that if we call for the guards they won't hear or be able to help before he's gone. So perhaps he's using some high level illusion spells to keep from being noticed.
So Irenicus frames the PC for murder. Then what? How will he manage to get the PC's soul if the PC gets executed for the murder? Getting the PC's soul is what he is after, after all. Hence why he doesn't actually attack you in BG2 before he has it.
I think he frames the PC knowing the PC will escape Baldur's Gate, I mean, Irenicus can't get the PC in the Ducal Palace while under the protection of the Flaming Fist, he needs to do something that makes the entire city not miss the PC one bit.
He could, but not without slaughtering hundreds, which would attract the attention of other very powerful individuals, such as Elminster.
High level mages are basically Nukes. They can't use their full power directly without triggering Mutually Assured Destruction, so they act subtly, and use proxies.
My point exactly, he would want to be discreet in capturing the PC, not stir up a commotion that might end with the kidnapping operation failing. Look at what happened to Caelar's assassins.
But the Hooded Man is easily able to be in the PC's bedroom of the palace at the beginning of the game without causing a disruption like the assassins. Most likely because Irenicus isn't an idiot like they were. And he is able to visit the PC is the FF jail before they escape. So I think it's very likely that he could have easily kidnapped the PC at any point during SoD, before or after the trial, and did not do so because he was testing their suitability for his spells.
He even says something to the effect in the palace that if we call for the guards they won't hear or be able to help before he's gone. So perhaps he's using some high level illusion spells to keep from being noticed.
Yes, he did, but his intention was to evaluate, not act, and he did it in a time when the palace was recovering from the attack by Caelar's assassins. Irenicus is a mage, he could cast Dimensional Door and teleport directly into the PC's quarters without alerting the guards. He could have kidnapped the PC, but he can't do that kind of thing alone since he kidnapped more than one person, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid and Jaheira too. He needed to hire certain people for that kind of job, these loose ends have to tie up perfectly with SoA, the SoA intro didn't say you were kidnapped by a mage, at least not directly, it said shadowy figures did.
Actually, he said that if it is security you're concerned about, then it is prudent to reconsider your sleeping arrangements. The meaning is similar to what you thought he said. He hints that the palace is not impregnable.
So Irenicus frames the PC for murder. Then what? How will he manage to get the PC's soul if the PC gets executed for the murder? Getting the PC's soul is what he is after, after all. Hence why he doesn't actually attack you in BG2 before he has it.
I think he frames the PC knowing the PC will escape Baldur's Gate, I mean, Irenicus can't get the PC in the Ducal Palace while under the protection of the Flaming Fist, he needs to do something that makes the entire city not miss the PC one bit.
He could, but not without slaughtering hundreds, which would attract the attention of other very powerful individuals, such as Elminster.
High level mages are basically Nukes. They can't use their full power directly without triggering Mutually Assured Destruction, so they act subtly, and use proxies.
My point exactly, he would want to be discreet in capturing the PC, not stir up a commotion that might end with the kidnapping operation failing. Look at what happened to Caelar's assassins.
But the Hooded Man is easily able to be in the PC's bedroom of the palace at the beginning of the game without causing a disruption like the assassins. Most likely because Irenicus isn't an idiot like they were. And he is able to visit the PC is the FF jail before they escape. So I think it's very likely that he could have easily kidnapped the PC at any point during SoD, before or after the trial, and did not do so because he was testing their suitability for his spells.
He even says something to the effect in the palace that if we call for the guards they won't hear or be able to help before he's gone. So perhaps he's using some high level illusion spells to keep from being noticed.
Yes, he did, but his intention was to evaluate, not act, and he did it in a time when the palace was recovering from the attack by Caelar's assassins. Irenicus is a mage, he could cast Dimensional Door and teleport directly into the PC's quarters without alerting the guards. He could have kidnapped the PC, but he can't do that kind of thing alone since he kidnapped more than one person, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid and Jaheira too. He needed to hire certain people for that kind of job, these loose ends have to tie up perfectly with SoA, the SoA intro didn't say you were kidnapped by a mage, at least not directly, it said shadowy figures did.
Actually, he said that if it is security you're concerned about, then it is prudent to reconsider your sleeping arrangements. The meaning is similar to what you thought he said. He hints that the palace is not impregnable.
True the ending had to match BG2's opening, so Irenicus couldn't have taken us directly. I'm only speaking hypothetically what his plan could have been if the PC had ended up being sentenced to death, how he could intervene. I mean, he could pull a Spellhold and just capture the PC and entice Imoen and companions to come rescue us, thereby getting his second Bhaalspawn. It's a moot point since it doesn't come to this, but I think he had more options than we're giving credit for if the plot hadn't automatically freed us from prison.
In SoD, Irenicus was pursuing a theory. He believed a divine spark could break his curse. Unlike Bodhi, who chose undeath as an escape, Irenicus is still right in the crosshairs of something elves don't understand: old age. His memory is failing, his passions are dying, and he is falling apart faster than he can even comprehend, because he is an elf who is aging like a human. And he wants a cure.
But godbloods are hard to come by. Especially godbloods that are not well defended. Sarevok likely roused his interest, but died before Irenicus could get his theory straight. No matter, we've got two rather powerful godbloods right out in the open. Which one has the divine spark Irenicus could use? Who knows. We've got one untried little twerp of a bhaalspawn who has pulled off a pretty impressive coup, but nothing on the scale needed to prove themselves a viable candidate. On the other hand we have an awe-inspiring powerhouse shining like the sun, but whose blood is dilute enough that it may not be sufficient. Which is worth the risk of procuring? The mutt with extraordinary power or the purebred with little power but perhaps immense untapped potential?
Hephernaan determines the answer for him. Caelar, for all her might, lacks the divine spark needed to open the portal to Avernus. The Scion, despite getting by on sheer luck and pluck, can open the portal with a papercut. Irenicus had plans to isolate and capture either one of them, but when the Scion not only throws the gates of Hell wide open but kicks the crap out of a major devil and comes back without Caelar, there's really only one option left, and it's the one he'd want even if he'd had a choice. He protected Skye this entire time just so she'd be in the right place at the right time. A little magic to ensure some sound slumber (for just long enough), some enchantment spells, and an errant artifact, and boom. Instant exile, just add abduction.
He didn't need those minions to capture you, but doing it that way suited his plans. He wanted to work in peace and in secret, to finish his plans long before any elves or meddling thieves stuck their noses in his plans. He bought himself a lot of time - not enough to complete the job, but enough to get all the requisite research out of the way. Once he was revealed, there was no reason to hold back on the pitiful council mages, but Spellhold was a perfect place to work and he could convince them to bring Imoen along - simultaneously giving him a specimen to work with for the time being and providing the ultimate bait for the marlin he was angling for, the Scion. A little brutality to work out the frustrations, then a surrender to give him everything he could possibly want. Add in a drow army that would bend over backwards for the resources to sack Suldenessalar, and you've got a nicely paved road to revenge and long-delayed godhood.
Where the plan went south? The Scion didn't fizzle even with their soul stolen. If Imoen (and he and his sister) were any evidence, the Scion should have curled up and waited for death. Or at least be inconvenienced by it. Instead, it took the brakes off the Scion's divine essence and turned them into a freight train of asskicking, with enough power to spare to keep Imoen on her feet as well. The Scion then proceeded to charge right back into Spellhold and kick his wrinkled rump out. Then chased him through the underdark and into Suldenessalar, through his defenses and onto the tree of life, where they cut off the power he was tapping into and ripped him a new one. Then they chased him all the way to hell, turned an entire demiplane into Spirit Google, yanked him back for one last confrontation and ripped their soul from his twice dead corpse.
It all tracks. Until he gets the Scion's soul, he plays a very careful game. He maneuvers to get you stripped of your social protection, captures you in secret to preserve the element of surprise, and when he loses his base of operations he tricks his very enemies into inviting him into theirs, so he can continue to operate in secret. Then the Scion survives against all odds and it all goes to Hell from there. Literally.
Again, though: he had no way of knowing that "instant exile" would be the result. Skie's father could have just had you executed on the spot, or left to rot in a dungeon. Or it could've gone the other way, a trial could have cleared you of all charges. The complaint here is that Irenicus' "careful game" critically hinges on a specific outcome he simply couldn't have predicted, and wouldn't have left to chance in the first place.
Predicted? You think he didn't have cards in play to ensure you got solitary confinement? A major factor in Irenicus's MO is plans within plans, and agents in useful places.
The problem with all these hypothetical plans Irenicus may have had is that few to none of them are actually communicated in the game. Lots of good theories why he'd go through the whole song and dance of the trial, but again, I don't see them in the actual game.
This is a consistent problem in general. Beamdog's writing can be rocky in places. They either don't always give players all the relevant information, they bury it, or they don't give it clearly. The result is players feeling confused and jerked around. I enjoyed SoD, I enjoyed the trial, but overall the ending felt rushed and left a lot of questions. 'y tho' was a big one. Some of that awkwardness can attributed to the disaster of a transition Bioware left. Not all of it. A little more time fleshing out the events following Skie's murder would have gone a long way.
Obviously, but the story should go from point A to point B in way that makes sense to the reader. If anything, the fact this is fiction makes an understandable (not necessarily logical!) transition even more important.
i must disagree about Charname not existing and only Abdel existing. Charname has always existed before Abdel came along. Abdel is supposed to be who the Charname is in the novelization. Of course novelization might be better cannon, but Charname is nonetheless cannon.
I'm puzzled why people think the Skie storyline would form the basis of BG3 rather than being the core of a BG2 expansion pack. Only CHARNAME would care about solving her murder because he is the one being framed for it, and he would only care during the course of BG2 because he would have his revenge by the end of it.
I agree that Beamdog is surely planning/hoping to do a BG3, but it seems more likely to me that a BG2 expansion pack would come first that would bring SoD's joinable NPCs into BG2 along with the Skie storyline.
I'm puzzled why people think the Skie storyline would form the basis of BG3 rather than being the core of a BG2 expansion pack. Only CHARNAME would care about solving her murder because he is the one being framed for it, and he would only care during the course of BG2 because he would have his revenge by the end of it.
I agree that Beamdog is surely planning/hoping to do a BG3, but it seems more likely to me that a BG2 expansion pack would come first that would bring SoD's joinable NPCs into BG2 along with the Skie storyline.
If they are doing that that'd be great, hopefully it spans into TOB and they can fix that mess of an expansion somehow. Since they can't touch base content I doubt it.
I'm puzzled why people think the Skie storyline would form the basis of BG3 rather than being the core of a BG2 expansion pack. Only CHARNAME would care about solving her murder because he is the one being framed for it, and he would only care during the course of BG2 because he would have his revenge by the end of it.
I agree that Beamdog is surely planning/hoping to do a BG3, but it seems more likely to me that a BG2 expansion pack would come first that would bring SoD's joinable NPCs into BG2 along with the Skie storyline.
As I keep trying to explain, it's not THE MURDER that matters. It's the fact that a character has been preserved in a crystal casket with a pre-established mode of resurrection when a certain object is found that is relevant to BG3.
Here is how I think BG3 will go:
Prologue
200 years after the events in BG1. The current Duke Silvershield is the de-facto ruler of Baldur's Gate. He is a descendent of Entar Silvershield, who remarried. Skie remeans in her casket in a crypt on the Silvershield estate, with the family charged with seeking the Soultaker dagger and returning her to life. For many years no news of the dagger could be found, until one day a old gloomy elf called Xan arrives with rumours that it was shipped to the Moonshae Isles. The current Duke is in ill health, so he dispatches his son, Sir Dikkedd Silvershield, to try and recover the dagger. With him he takes the protagonist, who is a fosterling in House Silvershield, and Dikkedd's squire.
Chapter 1
On the sea of swords the ship is attacked by a sea monster and sunk. Dikkedd Silvershield is lost, and the protagonist and Xan are washed up on the Moonshaes. They recover the dagger (meeting companions) and return to Baldur's Gate.
Chapter 2
Skie is resurrected, and the protagonist is appointed her protector. the Old Duke dies, and Skie inherits the dukedom and rulership of Baldur's Gate. She doesn't make a very good job of running the city, and when the protagonist narrowly prevents an assassination attempt by clerics of Bhaal, Skie manefests Bhaalspawn powers. Not only is Baldur's Gate still terrified of Bhaalspawn, but it also makes her illegitimate, which is a problem when Sir Dikkedd Silvershield returns.
Chapter 3
The future is cloudy. Will the protagonist protect Skie, or switch sides? Killing her won't be easy with her Bhaalspawn powers. What is clear is The Exile, Jon Irenicus, was imprisoned on the lower planes by a Bhaalspawn, and only a Bhaalspawn can free him...
Comments
In the CRPGs CHARNAME existed, Abdel didn't.
And the whole point of sealing Skie's body in a Crystal Casket is to preserve it for several hundred years. (otherwise they would have just put it in the ice-house).
The dream sequence isn't Irenicus. It is the Bhaal essence talking to you. Your blood urging you to kill and murder and seek power.
And the last dream sequence confirms that the ones in SoD where sent by Irenicus, not Bhaal.
I was talking about the dream sequences in BG2. They were clearly not sent by Irenicus. If SoD contradicts this it is a plot-hole.
I'm assuming the comic referenced was the one that came out a year or two ago where Minsc
And SoD confirms this. That crater random encounter we discover has a note from Suldanessellar's greatest mage who was tasked with finding and stopping Irenicus. And they were presumably killed by him, causing the crater.
The Cowled Wizards aren't that kickass, though. Most of them are fairly low-level. And it is clear that he surrenders because "our numbers are many. You will be overwhelmed". He made the most of the situation and got Imoen taken with him.
But why? She's a whiny unmemorable unimportant brat. That's her thin characterization. You're going on a great quest to bring back her? Why? Find a better plot hook get Pete's sake. After 1000s of years Skie is about as unimportant as a fart in the wind. Entar probably had other kids too even. After time for grieving, he'd be like well that really sucked but I guess she never listened, she shouldn't have been out there anyway too. If she hadn't run away to begin with this might never have happened
2. Irenicus is not at a higher level that Elmister. No chance. Elminster is effectively closer to level 60, due to his demi-god abilities etc. Irenicus is a high level wizard. Around level 20, or lower. He doesn't use any level 9 spells, I believe.
3. He could have kept fighting, yes. But he would have run out of spells eventually. His hideout was compromised, though. That much is true. Eventually the Cowled Wizards would have brought in their top dogs too, and he wouldn't have won in any case. Irenicus vs a large city? Nope. The elves defeated him too. Cut off his connection to the tree etc. And the elves, as we see, aren't that powerful.
2. http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Elminster http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Jon_Irenicus The game designers had different numbers in mind than you. And seriously, have you ever fought him? Because he has level 9 spells left and right, multiple Time Stops, Absolute Immunities, Power Word: Kills, Wail of the Banshee, He probably casts over a dozen level 9 spells if the fight goes long enough. Seriously, it's hard to believe you've actually played the game all the way through if you didn't know this.
3. Maybe, maybe not. The point is he could have handled a few Flaming Fists to get to you if he needed to. And judging by his multiple visits to you in the Palace and elsewhere, he wouldn't really need to.
In other words, they selected a false hero in place of the true hero so that the iron crisis incident can be recorded in the history of the Forgotten Realms, with the hero who actually or allegedly stopped it included, and we all know a character we can customize cannot be canonically recorded.
He even says something to the effect in the palace that if we call for the guards they won't hear or be able to help before he's gone. So perhaps he's using some high level illusion spells to keep from being noticed.
Actually, he said that if it is security you're concerned about, then it is prudent to reconsider your sleeping arrangements. The meaning is similar to what you thought he said. He hints that the palace is not impregnable.
In SoD, Irenicus was pursuing a theory. He believed a divine spark could break his curse. Unlike Bodhi, who chose undeath as an escape, Irenicus is still right in the crosshairs of something elves don't understand: old age. His memory is failing, his passions are dying, and he is falling apart faster than he can even comprehend, because he is an elf who is aging like a human. And he wants a cure.
But godbloods are hard to come by. Especially godbloods that are not well defended. Sarevok likely roused his interest, but died before Irenicus could get his theory straight. No matter, we've got two rather powerful godbloods right out in the open. Which one has the divine spark Irenicus could use? Who knows. We've got one untried little twerp of a bhaalspawn who has pulled off a pretty impressive coup, but nothing on the scale needed to prove themselves a viable candidate. On the other hand we have an awe-inspiring powerhouse shining like the sun, but whose blood is dilute enough that it may not be sufficient. Which is worth the risk of procuring? The mutt with extraordinary power or the purebred with little power but perhaps immense untapped potential?
Hephernaan determines the answer for him. Caelar, for all her might, lacks the divine spark needed to open the portal to Avernus. The Scion, despite getting by on sheer luck and pluck, can open the portal with a papercut. Irenicus had plans to isolate and capture either one of them, but when the Scion not only throws the gates of Hell wide open but kicks the crap out of a major devil and comes back without Caelar, there's really only one option left, and it's the one he'd want even if he'd had a choice. He protected Skye this entire time just so she'd be in the right place at the right time. A little magic to ensure some sound slumber (for just long enough), some enchantment spells, and an errant artifact, and boom. Instant exile, just add abduction.
He didn't need those minions to capture you, but doing it that way suited his plans. He wanted to work in peace and in secret, to finish his plans long before any elves or meddling thieves stuck their noses in his plans. He bought himself a lot of time - not enough to complete the job, but enough to get all the requisite research out of the way. Once he was revealed, there was no reason to hold back on the pitiful council mages, but Spellhold was a perfect place to work and he could convince them to bring Imoen along - simultaneously giving him a specimen to work with for the time being and providing the ultimate bait for the marlin he was angling for, the Scion. A little brutality to work out the frustrations, then a surrender to give him everything he could possibly want. Add in a drow army that would bend over backwards for the resources to sack Suldenessalar, and you've got a nicely paved road to revenge and long-delayed godhood.
Where the plan went south? The Scion didn't fizzle even with their soul stolen. If Imoen (and he and his sister) were any evidence, the Scion should have curled up and waited for death. Or at least be inconvenienced by it. Instead, it took the brakes off the Scion's divine essence and turned them into a freight train of asskicking, with enough power to spare to keep Imoen on her feet as well. The Scion then proceeded to charge right back into Spellhold and kick his wrinkled rump out. Then chased him through the underdark and into Suldenessalar, through his defenses and onto the tree of life, where they cut off the power he was tapping into and ripped him a new one. Then they chased him all the way to hell, turned an entire demiplane into Spirit Google, yanked him back for one last confrontation and ripped their soul from his twice dead corpse.
It all tracks. Until he gets the Scion's soul, he plays a very careful game. He maneuvers to get you stripped of your social protection, captures you in secret to preserve the element of surprise, and when he loses his base of operations he tricks his very enemies into inviting him into theirs, so he can continue to operate in secret. Then the Scion survives against all odds and it all goes to Hell from there. Literally.
This is a consistent problem in general. Beamdog's writing can be rocky in places. They either don't always give players all the relevant information, they bury it, or they don't give it clearly. The result is players feeling confused and jerked around. I enjoyed SoD, I enjoyed the trial, but overall the ending felt rushed and left a lot of questions. 'y tho' was a big one. Some of that awkwardness can attributed to the disaster of a transition Bioware left. Not all of it. A little more time fleshing out the events following Skie's murder would have gone a long way.
I agree that Beamdog is surely planning/hoping to do a BG3, but it seems more likely to me that a BG2 expansion pack would come first that would bring SoD's joinable NPCs into BG2 along with the Skie storyline.
Here is how I think BG3 will go:
Prologue
200 years after the events in BG1. The current Duke Silvershield is the de-facto ruler of Baldur's Gate. He is a descendent of Entar Silvershield, who remarried. Skie remeans in her casket in a crypt on the Silvershield estate, with the family charged with seeking the Soultaker dagger and returning her to life. For many years no news of the dagger could be found, until one day a old gloomy elf called Xan arrives with rumours that it was shipped to the Moonshae Isles. The current Duke is in ill health, so he dispatches his son, Sir Dikkedd Silvershield, to try and recover the dagger. With him he takes the protagonist, who is a fosterling in House Silvershield, and Dikkedd's squire.
Chapter 1
On the sea of swords the ship is attacked by a sea monster and sunk. Dikkedd Silvershield is lost, and the protagonist and Xan are washed up on the Moonshaes. They recover the dagger (meeting companions) and return to Baldur's Gate.
Chapter 2
Skie is resurrected, and the protagonist is appointed her protector. the Old Duke dies, and Skie inherits the dukedom and rulership of Baldur's Gate. She doesn't make a very good job of running the city, and when the protagonist narrowly prevents an assassination attempt by clerics of Bhaal, Skie manefests Bhaalspawn powers. Not only is Baldur's Gate still terrified of Bhaalspawn, but it also makes her illegitimate, which is a problem when Sir Dikkedd Silvershield returns.
Chapter 3
The future is cloudy. Will the protagonist protect Skie, or switch sides? Killing her won't be easy with her Bhaalspawn powers. What is clear is The Exile, Jon Irenicus, was imprisoned on the lower planes by a Bhaalspawn, and only a Bhaalspawn can free him...