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Anybody else uses end of round auto-pause?

Looks like I'm the only BG player who uses it in the world! I find it useful to manage my spell casters, although it is a bit bugged. I guess I'm more into turn based gaming than real time. So, anybody?

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Comments

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    Oh, I can't play without it! I also use it for whenever someone is injured, an enemy or trap is sighted, or a spell is cast.
    I also auto-pause on weapon unusable, but only in BGEE (Iron Crisis).

    JuliusBorisov
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,738
    I remember waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day I gave it a try, and I don't think I made it out of candlekeep before I turned it off, because back in those days, I never played an RPG before and BG was my first one, so I enjoyed the real time fighting with the option of space bar being the pause button

    SirBatince
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Oh yeah, I forgot about the pause on traps found, not really a combat one but definitely helpful sometimes.

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 418
    Normally i run with Brute force Teams, meaning i have a something/mage for Haste/anti-fear and a Cleric for Chant/Bless one guy with stacked armor and speed boots so hes the first people see and attack and the rest just heavy hitters to pulverize my enemy's. if i know there is a tough cookie ahead i take that 2 rounds to buff and just slap them , if not i just walk around bare and kill everyone so i don't have a big need for auto-pause every round , actually that would just slow my combats down.

    i do however use auto trap find and pause then one is found, really love that feature.

    sarevok57
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 388
    jackjack said:

    I can't play without it!

    Wait, I think I didn't read this right the first time. You mean you do use the end of round auto-pause?

    jackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,730
    edited May 2016
    I use it when I play the games on my phone.

    AlonsoReadingRambomashedtatersJuliusBorisov
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,139
    I use auto-pause for spellcasting, character injury, character death, and traps. If I want to be especially careful, I'll also enable auto-pause for when my characters get hit (very important for Mind Flayers and such). But auto-pause on round end is generally redundant when I already pause on spell cast.

    FinneousPJlansounetJuliusBorisovAlonso
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    Alonso said:

    jackjack said:

    I can't play without it!

    Wait, I think I didn't read this right the first time. You mean you do use the end of round auto-pause?
    Always! I'm a turn-based man myself. At this point, the game feels weird with it turned off.

    Alonsothespace
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,732
    I use end of round auto-pause.

    jackjackAlonsoJuliusBorisov
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    I have auto-pause on for finding traps, finding enemies, character at low health and character died. The first two are just great to have when traveling about, the other two for when crap hits the fan, which is the only time I feel like I need to have the pause kick in.

    Though with how crap pathfinding has been lately, I've started to think the auto-pause on enemy death would be a good one to turn on, so I can move characters better. They love to get stuck behind one-another and do their weird "I'm STUCK!" dance.

    mf2112
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 388
    Here's an example of how I typically use it with my blade:

    My blade is my tank (I think that when we say tank we mean the guy who is tough enough to take all the blows and live to tell it, right?). Usually he starts the fight with some buffing. He engages immediately the toughest enemy and casts defensive spin while the rest of the party do their thing. The great AC plus the buffing mean he's almost untouchable, so his chances of casting spells are quite good even while he's in the front line being attacked by the badass enemy.

    I want him to keep using spells throughout the fight, but I also want him to use all his time between spells to hack and slash. Ideally, the sequence is:
    1. Round 1
      1. Casts defensive spin. Casting time very short.
      2. Spell cast auto-pause. Now I know he won't be able to cast spells for almost a whole round.
      3. Hack and slash.
      4. End of round auto-pause. He's ready to cast spells again
    2. Round 2
      1. Casts Slow (or whatever).
      2. Spell cast auto-pause.
      3. Back to hack and slash.
      4. End of round auto-pause. He's ready to cast spells again.
    3. Etc.
    For other spell casters, the sequence is similar, except they tend to do it from the back.

    Bad thing is that the game is inconsisten with the pausing, so sometimes you have to guess when the round has actually finished.

    Is that the way you use end of round auto-pause or do you do something different with it?

    jackjackjustfeelinathomeJuliusBorisovSkatan
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    I don't think you can cast defensive spin in step 1 and then do step 3 for hack and slash as your action for that round has already been completed. Your character sprite might appear to attack if you didn't check "Disable Cosmetic Attacks" but I don't believe you can actually make an attack there.

    Same with round 2, I don't believe you can attack after casting Slow that round. No matter when the spell is cast, you can't cast and attack in the same round.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 563
    Not true. You can weave attacks with potions or spells. It is one of the main reasons why a F/M is so powerful.

    Typical examples include Mages with MMM. Especially powerful as you can cast your spell and then use the meteors to interrupt an enemy caster. Also a staple of SCS mages.

    jackjackAlonso
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Ammar said:

    Not true. You can weave attacks with potions or spells. It is one of the main reasons why a F/M is so powerful.

    Typical examples include Mages with MMM. Especially powerful as you can cast your spell and then use the meteors to interrupt an enemy caster. Also a staple of SCS mages.

    If so I would say that is a bug. I agree that you can move around, even a fair distance, and still do something else like attack OR drink a potion OR cast a spell, but I can't think of a way outside of Improved Alacrity or Improved Haste to do more than one of those "somethings" in the same round, and neither of those allow you to combine the different somethings, only to do more of the same things in a given round. I think drinking a potion is the action, you can't drink and attack or drink and cast.

    Since the rounds are only six seconds I think it might appear that you can do more than one type of action per round but I don't think it is intended to actually allow that.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Okay, did some testing and it seems that it boils down to casting time, but I think the behavior is a bug and should be changed.

    I put charname up against Imoen. Paused the game, he was casting greater malison and she started with MMM. With unmodified casting times, she finished casting first but only slightly (1 second maybe) and was unable to make an attack roll before charname's spell finished casting, even with autopause turned on. That is, autopause triggered when she finished casting, and I told her to attack with the MMM's, but as soon as I unpaused the game re-autopaused when charname finished casting.

    However, if she wore the Robe of Vecna then MMM finished casting immediately and autopaused and she was able to make 2-3 attack rolls before his spell finished casting and was able to hit several times, once interrupting and once hitting but not interrupting the casting.

    As much as I liked this, I feel it is a bug.

    JuliusBorisov
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    To be fair, the Robe of Vecna is kindof a joke item that borderline breaks the game.

    mf2112mashedtaters
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 563
    mf2112 said:


    I put charname up against Imoen. Paused the game, he was casting greater malison and she started with MMM. With unmodified casting times, she finished casting first but only slightly (1 second maybe) and was unable to make an attack roll before charname's spell finished casting, even with autopause turned on. That is, autopause triggered when she finished casting, and I told her to attack with the MMM's, but as soon as I unpaused the game re-autopaused when charname finished casting.

    Casting MMM was not the point. It lasts forever, so you should never cast it at the beginning of a combat.

    My point was, that if for example you cast Magic Missile at the start of combat, then start attacking, you get to throw some meteors before being able to cast the next magic missile one round later. Given the short casting time of Magic Missile I would guess that you can fit in 4 meteors.

    You should throw the meteors at a rate of one every 1.2 seconds (1 round = 6 seconds, five attacks per round).

    Obviously with shorter casting times you can fit more attacks in between. But most spells do not take up the entire round.



    jackjackAlonsoJuliusBorisovSkatan
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Ammar said:

    mf2112 said:


    I put charname up against Imoen. Paused the game, he was casting greater malison and she started with MMM. With unmodified casting times, she finished casting first but only slightly (1 second maybe) and was unable to make an attack roll before charname's spell finished casting, even with autopause turned on. That is, autopause triggered when she finished casting, and I told her to attack with the MMM's, but as soon as I unpaused the game re-autopaused when charname finished casting.

    Casting MMM was not the point. It lasts forever, so you should never cast it at the beginning of a combat.

    My point was, that if for example you cast Magic Missile at the start of combat, then start attacking, you get to throw some meteors before being able to cast the next magic missile one round later. Given the short casting time of Magic Missile I would guess that you can fit in 4 meteors.

    You should throw the meteors at a rate of one every 1.2 seconds (1 round = 6 seconds, five attacks per round).

    Obviously with shorter casting times you can fit more attacks in between. But most spells do not take up the entire round.

    I understood what you were saying, I was just pointing out that it works even when casting the MMM spell itself in combat and then using the missiles all within the same round as a physical attack to interrupt a slightly longer spell that was started casting at the same time. It would have been the same if I had cast MM or any other 1 segment spell and then attacked with the shortbow.

    I am not saying that it shouldn't be that way with quick cast spells that don't require much and a weapon that is already equipped, I just didn't think it was intended to work that way where characters can cast a spell AND attack in a single round or that it would work. I never really tested it like that.

    Also, it doesn't work the other way. If you attack first with MMM or anything else then cast it waits until the next round to start casting. I tried again where I let Imoen throw 2 MMMs and then I paused and cast MM. She waits several seconds to start casting.

  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 388
    edited May 2016
    Ammar said:

    You can weave attacks with potions or spells.

    I'm positive you can cast a spell and then attack with anything, all in the same round. I do it all the time. Right now my party just arrived to the Windspear Hills. They are attacked as soon as they arrive. My three arcane casters cast Stoneskin immediately. Then they attack with their ranged weapons. All of them get to fire at least one projectile before the end of round auto pause.
    mf2112 said:

    it doesn't work the other way. If you attack first with MMM or anything else then cast it waits until the next round to start casting. I tried again where I let Imoen throw 2 MMMs and then I paused and cast MM. She waits several seconds to start casting.

    This does work for me. After throwing projectiles for a few rounds, I ask my casters to cast Armor. They start casting immediately (you can tell because they don't have the spell available anymore). Is it possible that in your case Imoen tried to cast Magic Missile in the same round that she had finished casting MMM?

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited May 2016
    Alonso said:

    Ammar said:

    You can weave attacks with potions or spells.

    I'm positive you can cast a spell and then attack with anything, all in the same round. I do it all the time. Right now my party just arrived to the Windspear Hills. They are attacked as soon as they arrive. My three arcane casters cast Stoneskin immediately. Then they attack with their ranged weapons. All of them get to fire at least one projectile before the end of round auto pause.
    mf2112 said:

    it doesn't work the other way. If you attack first with MMM or anything else then cast it waits until the next round to start casting. I tried again where I let Imoen throw 2 MMMs and then I paused and cast MM. She waits several seconds to start casting.

    This does work for me. After throwing projectiles for a few rounds, I ask my casters to cast Armor. They start casting immediately (you can tell because they don't have the spell available anymore). Is it possible that in your case Imoen tried to cast Magic Missile in the same round that she had finished casting MMM?
    Nope, I tried by having Imoen throw only 1 or 2 MMM's, then I paused in what should be mid-round for her as she would get 5 attacks per round, then cast the Magic missiles. She didn't start casting for about 3-3.5 seconds, so pretty clearly the next round.

    I am sure it works this way since I tested all the games. You can cast a spell and attack within the same round.

    Try this, equip only one arrow and then autopause on weapon unusable. Fire the one arrow, then cast a spell and then unpause. It should take several seconds to start casting. But if you cast a spell first, then tell chars to attack they will begin immediately with no delays. Turn on the to-hit rolls and you can see when they make their attacks.

    Update: Well, now I can do it both ways with zero delays with any weapon, including MMM's. Imoen can shoot a single arrow or throw a single sling bullet which should be halfway through the round when the autopause kicks in, but then I can cast a magic missile and she starts casting immediately. Or I can throw a single Melf MM and then pause, and then cast magic missile and she starts casting immediately. I did reboot since last night and I am pretty sure I am using the same PC version of the game so it is strange why I am able to do it now when it didn't work last night, but still it seems that you can get an attack and a spell off in the same round.

    Funny, the redmine ticket I opened was closed with a reference to your other thread @Alonso forums.beamdog.com/discussion/57228/end-of-round-auto-pause-doesnt-seem-to-work

    Post edited by mf2112 on
    jackjackJuliusBorisovAlonsololien
  • proccoprocco Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 911
    Alonso said:

    Ooooh, I feel so lonely. There's no one in the world with whom I can share my end of round auto pause experiences :'(

    I feel like starting a campaign to raise awareness of its usefulness :D

    It never seemed all that useful to me before, but after reading this thread I'm going to give it a try next time I play (patiently waiting on iPad version of SoD to start a new run).

    jackjackAlonso
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 1,768
    I use it for very difficult battles if I remember, but otherwise I don't bother. Who needs to auto pause every round in the xvart village?

  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 388
    edited May 2016

    I use it for very difficult battles if I remember, but otherwise I don't bother. Who needs to auto pause every round in the xvart village?

    Definitely. In my case, though, I usually don't know in advance what fights are going to be tough. I'm playing Insane difficulty, so even orcs can be challenging. But, yeah, I agree it's meant to be used in tough battles, in the easy ones it's just annoying. So how do you use it, anyway?
    mf2112 said:

    Funny, the redmine ticket I opened was closed with a reference to your other thread @Alonso forums.beamdog.com/discussion/57228/end-of-round-auto-pause-doesnt-seem-to-work

    First time I read Seth's post I didn't get jack. Now I think I got a rough idea of what he means, but it makes everything more confusing. And I thought that I had finally managed to understand how it works :'(

    mf2112
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 1,768
    I use it like you, when I need to micromanage my spell casters. It's good to know when they are ready to cast a spell immediately. Otherwise I get caught up in the heat of battle and forget, and because I have their AI on ranged (I don't like the spellcaster AI), they waste a turn firing their piddly little slings at foes that can't even feel them.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    The end of round autopause basically doesn't work because characters rounds aren't timed together. Everyone has their own separate round timing, so it seems like they are acknowledging that and just saying to use the individual character action autopauses instead.

    Yelocessej
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 388

    It's good to know when they are ready to cast a spell immediately.

    And how do you know when they're ready? For sometimes they reach their end of round auto pause and still they don't start to cast immediately. And other times they just never get an end of round auto pause at all.

    We have been discussing this in the parallel thread as well, but the more we discuss it the more confused I am :/

  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 2,598
    I prefer Auto Pause: Spell Cast and Auto Pause: Target Gone myself, but nowadays I tend to not bother with auto pause altogether. I pause so frequently that auto pause will end up clashing with my manual pauses causing the game to unpause when I don't want it to. It's gotten my party members badly injured or even killed before.

    jackjacksemiticgod
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    Yeah, with all of the auto-pause options I've selected, I rarely if ever pause manually, except when real life interferes and I have to step away from the game.
    *shakes fist at the sky*

    mf2112Alonsothespace
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 1,768
    @Alonso

    The end of round auto pause never really worked perfectly for the infinity engine games because the round system wasn't ever really perfectly implemented in the engine. It was one of the first unifications of real time strategy, turn based combat, and D&D engine mechanics, after all.

    Additionally, some spells take longer than a round to cast, so that adds even more to the confusion: some spells even take a partial round (wtf???)

    Despits these flaws, I have found end of round autopause to be the easiest way for me to remind myself to micromanage my casters. I acknowledge that it isn't perfect: sometimes my mage will get a shot off with their sling before the end of the round pause takes effect--the speed factors for slings are about average so sometimes this happens. But I find spell cast autopause and target gone autopause way too redundant for a six person party, although they work perfectly for solo or even two person parties.

    I mainly use it in difficult battles (you know, after I reload, my reloaditus is almost as bad as my restartitus) when I lost because I got distracted by my fighters in the heat of battle and forget that my Mage is throwing pebbles instead of reigning fire from hell upon my enemies.

    I guess that is why I like mages that can use bows as well (fighter/mages or even thief/mages) because slings are generally not as powerful as bows and crossbows, and it doesn't hurt as much if I forget that they are using ranged weapons instead of spells.

    The autopause I use all the time, no matter what, are enemy sighted, character death, and trap detected.

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