Would you like to have the option to play 1.3.20 or any older version of the game?

Sophiel777

Not all changes introduced to 2.0 and later versions are meeting the expectations of players who preferred their game with classic components (no new UI's and menu's). Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported?

Lord_Tansheron

In an ideal world where wishes come true and don't cost money or resources, sure. In the real world where resources are finite and coveted, they are better used elsewhere.

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jackjack

Lord_Tansheron said:

In an ideal world where wishes come true and don't cost money or resources, sure. In the real world where resources are finite and coveted, they are better used elsewhere.

Eloquently put, and the exact same reason I voted no.

RobertMcDuck

subtledoctor said:

Nothing is stopping anyone backing up their 1.3 install and preserving it forever alongside their 2.2 install.

Well, except for the Steam version, which may have updated without prompting the user. But that's the fault of Steam's terrible policies.

Steam allows reverting back to 1.3. I don't know if you can go back any further though.

Also, you can for each individual game change an option that blocks updates from installing automatically. Steam is fine really.

dunbar

I voted 'yes' simply because I've done exactly that. I've got DVD discs of the vanilla games and the EEs (v 1.3) both loaded onto my PC and I can play whichever one I feel like, whenever I feel like it - it gives me a sense of both independence and security.
I also had v2 installed as well at one point (until I had to uninstall it because it kept crashing) and I will buy it on DVD (if/when it comes out) when all the bugs are fixed and then re-install it.
This way I get to "have my cake, and eat it".

BillyYank

Even the Steam version is DRM-less. You can copy your game to different directory, and the Steam client will never know it's there.

KampfKaninchen

I'm usually advocating for all kinds of totalitarian mindsets, but in this case I would prefer a more liberal approach.

AstroBryGuy

Sophiel777 said:

Not all changes introduced to 2.0 and later versions are meeting the expectations of players who preferred their game with classic components (no new UI's and menu's). Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported?

The question is incorrect anyway. BG2EE 1.3 does NOT have the "classic" UI. Everyone forgets what the classic UI actually looked like, and thinks the BG2EE 1.3 UI was originally created in 2000.

Classic BG2 UI:



BG2EE 1.3 UI:



SoD UI:

ussnorway

I will roll back my bg2ee (gog) game because I use 'turn' undead but other than that the new 2 patch is fine by me.

argent77

The current patch version still has a number of usability issues, but returning to v1.3 is out of question for me since that version contained a couple of game breaking or otherwise serious bugs (e.g. not resetting APR after using MMMs, "Turn Undead" turning paladins or Saemon Havarian not appearing in certain situations). You can't expect the devs to backport fixes for these and other bugs to the 1.3 version of the engine.

Besides, as mentioned before, it is already possible for Steam (and possibly GOG) users to install a previous version if you're inclined to do so.

justfeelinathome

I wouldn't. That said, an option to do so wouldn't offend me and I can see that some people feel strongly about it. IF they were just to offer it as an alternate download (aside for steam-users) I'd see no problem with this.

However, I feel like there would be a demand for 1.4 and I do not think that Beamdog dividing their attention and supporting two builds would ultimately lead us to a "perfect" version of the game.

By the way, does anyone think a completely bug-free BG/BG II would be possible?

rapsam2003

justfeelinathome said:

IF they were just to offer it as an alternate download (aside for steam-users) I'd see no problem with this.

And they'd have to support it. That's the problem. You cannot offer an older version of the game, because no studio has the resources to support 2 versions of the game, one of them new and the other old. No dev wants to be "fixing" the bugs in 1.3 because some jackass won't upgrade to 2.x. I say this as a software developer myself, so I think I can understand the Beamdog mentality here a bit.

fkirenicus

rapsam2003 said:

No dev wants to be "fixing" the bugs in 1.3 because some jackass won't upgrade to 2.x.

Have you considered the possibility that the "jackasses", as you like to label your fellow human beings, might in fact be those who have upgraded to 2.x?

JuliusBorisov

No need to call names, everyone.

Skatan

rapsam2003 said:

justfeelinathome said:

IF they were just to offer it as an alternate download (aside for steam-users) I'd see no problem with this.

And they'd have to support it. That's the problem. You cannot offer an older version of the game, because no studio has the resources to support 2 versions of the game, one of them new and the other old. No dev wants to be "fixing" the bugs in 1.3 because some jackass won't upgrade to 2.x. I say this as a software developer myself, so I think I can understand the Beamdog mentality here a bit.

But the questions was "Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported? ". Did you somehow manage to miss the quite essential part of that sentence about no support?

justfeelinathome

Skatan said:

rapsam2003 said:

justfeelinathome said:

IF they were just to offer it as an alternate download (aside for steam-users) I'd see no problem with this.

And they'd have to support it. That's the problem. You cannot offer an older version of the game, because no studio has the resources to support 2 versions of the game, one of them new and the other old. No dev wants to be "fixing" the bugs in 1.3 because some jackass won't upgrade to 2.x. I say this as a software developer myself, so I think I can understand the Beamdog mentality here a bit.

But the questions was "Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported? ". Did you somehow manage to miss the quite essential part of that sentence about no support?

Yeees I did and noticed just now. Sorry about that. I still wouldn't use it myself, but it would mean this option makes someone else happy, without stretching resources thin, so I'd say I'd like the option to be there for the people who want it. Just not for me.

AstroBryGuy

Skatan said:

rapsam2003 said:

justfeelinathome said:

IF they were just to offer it as an alternate download (aside for steam-users) I'd see no problem with this.

And they'd have to support it. That's the problem. You cannot offer an older version of the game, because no studio has the resources to support 2 versions of the game, one of them new and the other old. No dev wants to be "fixing" the bugs in 1.3 because some jackass won't upgrade to 2.x. I say this as a software developer myself, so I think I can understand the Beamdog mentality here a bit.

But the questions was "Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported? ". Did you somehow manage to miss the quite essential part of that sentence about no support?

Yes, but it is reasonable to assume that if Beamdog made v1.3 widely available again (through regular channels, rather than the Steam "beta build" channel), that a group of v1.3 users would start clamoring for "critical bugfixes" to be backported. There'd be discussion threads opened for "Petition to backport Turn Undead Fix to v1.3", "Petition to backport MMM APR fix to v1.3", etc..

And, as the original question suggests, "any older version" i.e., not just v1.3, but ALL older versions of the EEs would be actively distributed as well. As a modder, that thought make my beard greyer than it already is. BG1NPC already breaks on old versions of BGEE, since I assume the existence of ITEMUSE.2DA if "GAME_IS = bgee". There's enough ACTION_IF GAME_IS code for dealing with Tutu, BGT, and BGEE. We do NOT need to add to it by having 6 versions of BGEE (v1.0, v1.2, v1.3, v2.0, v2.1, v2.2, etc..) all being actively distributed.

Skatan

AstroBryGuy said:

Yes, but it is reasonable to assume that if Beamdog made v1.3 widely available again (through regular channels, rather than the Steam "beta build" channel), that a group of v1.3 users would start clamoring for "critical bugfixes" to be backported. There'd be discussion threads opened for "Petition to backport Turn Undead Fix to v1.3", "Petition to backport MMM APR fix to v1.3", etc..

And, as the original question suggests, "any older version" i.e., not just v1.3, but ALL older versions of the EEs would be actively distributed as well. As a modder, that thought make my beard greyer than it already is. BG1NPC already breaks on old versions of BGEE, since I assume the existence of ITEMUSE.2DA if "GAME_IS = bgee". There's enough ACTION_IF GAME_IS code for dealing with Tutu, BGT, and BGEE. We do NOT need to add to it by having 6 versions of BGEE (v1.0, v1.2, v1.3, v2.0, v2.1, v2.2, etc..) all being actively distributed.

I don't see the issue as you do. If someone releases an old release and clearly states that it's released as-is without any further support etc, what does it matter if a few ppl starts threads asking for support? They would just be told that it's not supported and to move on, "take it, or leave it" sorta.

And I may misunderstand you know, but if a mod (with BG1NPC you mean the mod I assume) "breaks" an older, unsupported version, what's the problem? If you work with mods, then of course you will most likely try to update them to work with the latest official release of the game. Older version of the mods are "take it, or leave it", just as with the game itself.

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Dee

@subtledoctor I think the question is whether or not there should be such an option on any platform that offers the game (Beamdog, GOG, Steam...presumably Google Play and the Mac/iOS App Stores too). But yes, on Steam it's already available; and if you own the game through Beamdog, you can request a Steam key from support.

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dunbar

Exactly. I'm still playing 1.3 (admittedly from DVDs rather than Steam) despite the fact that I bought and installed SoD et al. (and then subsequently uninstalled it because it wasn't compatible with my computer). One day, when all the bugs are fixed with 2.x, I will re-install it (probably on an external hard drive, so that I can still play both) and see if I can get it to run. In the meantime I'm still having great fun playing the ''old'' BG.

Ravenslight

I’m curious as to how this works. If say, Beamdog updates the game to, version 2.3 or something, do GOG and Steam move to version 2.2 at some point, using that as the backup file you can play? Does anyone know how they decide how far back the backup version you can use will be?

In other words, I’m trying to understand how long 1.3 will be available through them.

Dee

Ravenslight said:

I’m curious as to how this works. If say, Beamdog updates the game to, version 2.3 or something, do GOG and Steam move to version 2.2 at some point, using that as the backup file you can play? Does anyone know how they decide how far back the backup version you can use will be?

In other words, I’m trying to understand how long 1.3 will be available through them.

v2.0 slightly changed the system requirements because of some of the graphics changes, which means that for some people, v1.3 is the last version of the game their computer will support. That's why the option is there at all; I wouldn't expect the v1.3 option to be removed from the beta list on Steam any time soon, if ever.

Ravenslight

Good to know, Thank you.

dunbar

Come to think of it, I've still got the vanilla 4 in 1 box set that I play from time to time and I'm sure that's not supported in any way. So, if you want to stay with 1.3, buy the box sets from Amazon (UK) like I did.

KampfKaninchen

It's really funny, how there is this thread and, in the BG:EE section of the forum, another, asking for the exact opposite. Those people are stuck on 1.3 and are for utterly obscure reasons not allowed or able to update.
Especially because it hits those people, who bothered to buy from Beamdog directlyor were classy enough to buy a physical copy.

Actually, that's not funny, that's laughable.

As much as I disagree with the DLC policy of Paradox Games, the way they handle the patch issue is superb. You can play any version from 1.0 to the latest build.

Of course it breaks all DLCs released after the version you choose to play. Never was that an issue, instead it is a source of constant praise.

Almost all of the mods are available in all their released versions aswell. Maybe you even need a lower version of PDXgame/BG:EE, because the newer version actually broke the mod, you wanted to play.

FinneousPJ

Exactly. What is the point of releasing different versions if you can't revert.

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rapsam2003

Skatan said:

But the questions was "Should they have option to play the game with components they bought even if it meant that they will no longer be supported? ". Did you somehow manage to miss the quite essential part of that sentence about no support?

You don't understand. They cannot, in good conscience, NOT support it. Stating that they're releasing a version that will be unsupported after they release it is 1) a PR nightmare and 2) a terrible business move. No company that understands its customers, in even the most superficial way, is going to actually release an unsupported version as an official product.

KampfKaninchen said:

As much as I disagree with the DLC policy of Paradox Games, the way they handle the patch issue is superb. You can play any version from 1.0 to the latest build.

This requires teams that support those older versions, even if it's just 2 or 3 support guys who sit on the phone with dumb customers and go through a list of troubleshooting steps. That's 2 or 3 support guys that have to be paid and who cannot be utilized in other endeavors.