The last few lines are Chain Contingency, not precasting.
Tbf it's not that much: some weapon defences and a couple of spell defences.
The Warden is tough though. Enjoy
Yes, but the text really looks intimidating though. I had to expand it to see the full extent of his defences.. I have a few slightly-cheesy tactics of my own too, so lets see how this ends!
If you do not like prebuffed enemies, you can disable that component of SCS.
Nobody is forcing you to play in ways you don't want to play.
You misunderstood my outburst. It was more a hearty exclamation than a lament. I genuinely love SCS and their challenges, but I find their mages' precast spells sometimes a tad unfair
The way I see it: the Warden ain't got nothing on me. If I'm facing a tough fight I could easily have 10 prebuffs (potions and spells) running. So why complain when the opponents do it?
I find that the most interesting fights are those in which both the player and the enemy are buffed to the max. The fights last longer and become more complex this way.
I hate the precast stuff in SCS. I know you can turn it off but it turned me off so much that I don't use SCS.
Isn't that a bit like saying convertibles exist and that's why you don't drive a car, even though nobody is forcing you to actually get a convertible? ¬_¬
I hate the precast stuff in SCS. I know you can turn it off but it turned me off so much that I don't use SCS.
Isn't that a bit like saying convertibles exist and that's why you don't drive a car, even though nobody is forcing you to actually get a convertible? ¬_¬
No it's like saying I took a test drive in a convertible and decided it's not for me. I know I can get one that is customized but I'm like nah I'm good, I'll get another car.
@smeagolheart: What we find unfortunate is that you discarded the entire mod when you could have removed the one thing that bothered you, and enjoyed everything else SCS has to offer. Why not try SCS without pre-buffing? It actually plays very, very differently from SCS with pre-buffing.
It can't really hurt to try it out. Unlike a convertible, SCS costs nothing. You're missing out on the most popular and highly-rated mod for BG2.
Though I enjoy challenge, I never play SCS with the arcane prebuffing component installed. I find it too tedious to read through some 20 lines of feedback text for each caster to figure what's going on before the battle has even begun. When fighting multiple mages the feedback window actually scrolls so fast that even with all the auto-pause settings enabled, it is nigh impossible to keep track of every spell cast and protection enabled.
You can also argue that the prebuffing component is inherently unfair as it gives the enemy casters all those short duration protective spells immediately, at once and for free (without costing them any spell slots). In comparison, it is actually impossible for the PC to cast 20 something protective spells without some of them wearing off in the process. Not to mention, having so many protective spells memorized would severely limit your in-combat casting capacity.
Finally, the whole concept of prebuffing is stupid because it basically forces you to metagame. You need to know you're about to fight a mage with specific spell protections to have the right anti-magic spells prepared. Also, if you happen to walk into a major mage fight without having your spell protections up, you're basically screwed. By the time you get even halfway through your buffing routine, the enemy caster has already cast time stop, summon dark planetar and Abi Dalzim's. Bam. Say hello to the game over screen.
So yeah, I'd only recommend the pre-buffing component if you a) have the patience of a saint and b) don't mind a healthy dose of metagaming and reloading. Otherwise, skip the component and go about enjoying the rest of this otherwise stellar mod.
The way I see it: the Warden ain't got nothing on me. If I'm facing a tough fight I could easily have 10 prebuffs (potions and spells) running. So why complain when the opponents do it?
I find that the most interesting fights are those in which both the player and the enemy are buffed to the max. The fights last longer and become more complex this way.
Yes, my sentiments exactly. That's the main reason I go for SCS in its entirety. It forces you to consider things you would never have thought of using in an unmoded game like that dusty potion in your potion bag or a neglected protection scroll.
But I do agree with @Ballad about the metagameness about it. Which makes me wonder, has anyone actually completed SCS BG (on its highest difficulty) without a single reload? That would be inconceivable.
lots of people have finished the BG games, including entire saga runs, even on insane, even when solo, and even with difficulty mods installed, from Ascension to SCS to Tactics and even Improved Anvil, without ever letting the main character die. The "no-reload run" is a well-known challenge run.
I myself have done this once before, through Shadows of Amn to the Throne of Bhaal, with a Cleric of Lathander(11)->Mage in vanilla with SCS and Ascension, trying to play spellcasters as if they were fighters (I like to do experimental no-reload runs). https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38312/the-party-of-spiders-no-reload-scs2-run#latest I did some test runs in this, and I think I granted myself one reload due to faulty information. Other people have completed the challenge without caveats.
Saros Shadowfollower is the only person who has completed Improved Anvil (I forget which version) without reloading, which is also extremely impressive, given Improved Anvil's heavy reliance on reloading.
@Gotural completed BG1+BG2+ToB with SCS without reloads on this forum. BTW, there's the no-reload thread here, which is a collection of everyone's attempt at this challenge, usually with a lot of mods to increase the difficulty of the game like SCS: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40393/. You also can check out the no-reload threads on the Bioware forums. Over 600 pages of no-reload runs.
Just a true sight and three spell removals max should make him vulnerable to breach. Two competent casters can do this in 2 rounds. He has minor globe, which is the weakest link depending on your install, in some installs minor globe can not stop spell thrust, but the globe (6th lvl) can. In some installs the globe can stop even secret word, in some it can not.
In my install, a secret word to dispel spell shield, another secret word to dispel spell turning, (spell thrust can not dispel spell turning) then a spell thrust to take down both spell immunity:abjuration and minor globe should be enough to make him a target for breach. Ofcourse he will pull a trigger with spell deflection+spell shield+stoneskin out of his butt the moment he is breached. So you'll need to peel him off again. Jan and Aerie can do this if they devote their 4th lvl slots to secret words, save a stoneskin for themselves. If the enemy pulls a globe (6th lvl) and if in your install it blocks out secret word then it gets harder, as you'll need pierce magic (6th) which is harder for multi class magi like the two.
lots of people have finished the BG games, including entire saga runs, even on insane, even when solo, and even with difficulty mods installed, from Ascension to SCS to Tactics and even Improved Anvil, without ever letting the main character die. The "no-reload run" is a well-known challenge run.
I myself have done this once before, through Shadows of Amn to the Throne of Bhaal, with a Cleric of Lathander(11)->Mage in vanilla with SCS and Ascension, trying to play spellcasters as if they were fighters (I like to do experimental no-reload runs). https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38312/the-party-of-spiders-no-reload-scs2-run#latest I did some test runs in this, and I think I granted myself one reload due to faulty information. Other people have completed the challenge without caveats.
Saros Shadowfollower is the only person who has completed Improved Anvil (I forget which version) without reloading, which is also extremely impressive, given Improved Anvil's heavy reliance on reloading.
@Gotural completed BG1+BG2+ToB with SCS without reloads on this forum. BTW, there's the no-reload thread here, which is a collection of everyone's attempt at this challenge, usually with a lot of mods to increase the difficulty of the game like SCS: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40393/. You also can check out the no-reload threads on the Bioware forums. Over 600 pages of no-reload runs.
Wow, I can't imagine the amount of planning and work dedicated to accomplishing such a feat. I am literally awestruck.
Just a true sight and three spell removals max should make him vulnerable to breach. Two competent casters can do this in 2 rounds. He has minor globe, which is the weakest link depending on your install, in some installs minor globe can not stop spell thrust, but the globe (6th lvl) can. In some installs the globe can stop even secret word, in some it can not.
In my install, a secret word to dispel spell shield, another secret word to dispel spell turning, (spell thrust can not dispel spell turning) then a spell thrust to take down both spell immunity:abjuration and minor globe should be enough to make him a target for breach. Ofcourse he will pull a trigger with spell deflection+spell shield+stoneskin out of his butt the moment he is breached. So you'll need to peel him off again. Jan and Aerie can do this if they devote their 4th lvl slots to secret words, save a stoneskin for themselves. If the enemy pulls a globe (6th lvl) and if in your install it blocks out secret word then it gets harder, as you'll need pierce magic (6th) which is harder for multi class magi like the two.
Yes, you should do exactly that. Just pray that you're not killed in the process - in those 2 rounds the Warden will cast Time Stop and will attack with Improved Haste and Black Blade of Disaster your characters with all hits
Just a true sight and three spell removals max should make him vulnerable to breach. Two competent casters can do this in 2 rounds. He has minor globe, which is the weakest link depending on your install, in some installs minor globe can not stop spell thrust, but the globe (6th lvl) can. In some installs the globe can stop even secret word, in some it can not.
In my install, a secret word to dispel spell shield, another secret word to dispel spell turning, (spell thrust can not dispel spell turning) then a spell thrust to take down both spell immunity:abjuration and minor globe should be enough to make him a target for breach. Ofcourse he will pull a trigger with spell deflection+spell shield+stoneskin out of his butt the moment he is breached. So you'll need to peel him off again. Jan and Aerie can do this if they devote their 4th lvl slots to secret words, save a stoneskin for themselves. If the enemy pulls a globe (6th lvl) and if in your install it blocks out secret word then it gets harder, as you'll need pierce magic (6th) which is harder for multi class magi like the two.
I did have a go as what you have suggested Jan + Aerie both using Secret Word, but he threw at my party a Sphere of Chaos which is devastating (and his casting time seems to be quicker than normal). But I found, by accident, quite a cheesy method to deal with him. I discovered my party could hide out in one of those anus-looking like thing which transports you to another dimension (he couldn't follow), and I waited for his Mantle + Improved Mantle to die out hehe
Wow, I can't imagine the amount of planning and work dedicated to accomplishing such a feat. I am literally awestruck.
Yeah, no kiddin'. I consider myself pretty proficient at the two BG games, having been playing them for 16 years now, but I could never pull off a genuine no-reload run on SCS and Insanity. I find that there is simply too much randomness in these games - it is almost as if every dungeon has a trap or a particularly nasty encounter you fail to anticipate. In order to succeed, you have to be very careful, very deliberate and take next to no risks. In practice, this means skipping some of the high-risk areas (the beholder hive comes to mind) and running at the first sign of trouble. Personally, I don't find the prospect of such a playthrough very enjoyable, but to each their own.
Now, the funny thing is that SCS is not even the hardest difficulty-enhancing mod out there. I am not sure if it still exists, but at some point in time there was a contraption called The Improved Anvil that was infamous for making its players tear their eyes out in frustration. Among other things, it made Immunity:Abjuration protect the caster against ALL abjuration spells (including Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Pierce Magic and so on). In practice, this made enemy spellcasters unkillable by parties with no access to Ruby Ray (which happens to be in the Alteration school). And if you tried to "cheat" by running and waiting for the spell to expire, there was a script that would reset the encounter and give the mage its spells back. Fun times. Or not.
Just a true sight and three spell removals max should make him vulnerable to breach. Two competent casters can do this in 2 rounds. He has minor globe, which is the weakest link depending on your install, in some installs minor globe can not stop spell thrust, but the globe (6th lvl) can. In some installs the globe can stop even secret word, in some it can not.
In my install, a secret word to dispel spell shield, another secret word to dispel spell turning, (spell thrust can not dispel spell turning) then a spell thrust to take down both spell immunity:abjuration and minor globe should be enough to make him a target for breach. Ofcourse he will pull a trigger with spell deflection+spell shield+stoneskin out of his butt the moment he is breached. So you'll need to peel him off again. Jan and Aerie can do this if they devote their 4th lvl slots to secret words, save a stoneskin for themselves. If the enemy pulls a globe (6th lvl) and if in your install it blocks out secret word then it gets harder, as you'll need pierce magic (6th) which is harder for multi class magi like the two.
Yes, you should do exactly that. Just pray that you're not killed in the process - in those 2 rounds the Warden will cast Time Stop and will attack with Improved Haste and Black Blade of Disaster your characters with all hits
Oh yeah. If high enough level, weather it with buffs (death ward/pro from magic weapons, contignency upon hit for another pro from magic weapons, plus spell protections) if low level, RUN and hide and delay him with summons. But I am sure any veteran bg player can work these out, like you, and the op fleeing to hide in the anus-portal (I lolled!) worked well for him, it seems.
Warden has different script in every scs version, or every installation randomises his spells, maybe. In one game he used dragon breath. In another installation he had a fallen planetar. I've seen imprisonment from him in the past as well. But if spell revisions are installed, scs enemies LOVE casting triple disintegrate triggers and black blades of disaster:spell revisions make these very damaging, akin to 3e approach. Without sr, they never cast disintegrating stuff (save sphere of chaos) but flesh to stone.
Improved anvil makes everything too radical and too hardcore. Everything is immune to traps, missile damage, and elemental damage. You can not run, areas are blocked/sealed and/or enemies get healed/refreshed when they can't see you. The mod creator wants you to be a 'man' and play 'fair' to sort it out in melee with every enemy. Only that, enemies have 8d10 damage melee weapons that dispel protections and illusions on hit, have great ac, attacks, pyschial resistances and regeneration to boot!
Really scs is VERY accomodating and kind to the player compared to ia. Ofcourse every player has different tastes and playstyles, plus scs is extremely customisable:no all or nothing aproach. You can customise the difficulty while installing.
Warden has different script in every scs version, or every installation randomises his spells, maybe. In one game he used dragon breath. In another installation he had a fallen planetar. I've seen imprisonment from him in the past as well. But if spell revisions are installed, scs enemies LOVE casting triple disintegrate triggers and black blades of disaster:spell revisions make these very damaging, akin to 3e approach. Without sr, they never cast disintegrating stuff (save sphere of chaos) but flesh to stone.
If that is truly the case (the randomness), how does someone on a no-reload SCS highest difficulty insane mode game prepare for this?
If that is truly the case (the randomness), how does someone on a no-reload SCS highest difficulty insane mode game prepare for this?
Use a strategy that involves not getting hit, rather than having the correct immunity up. Either keep away and just avoid direct contact, or be immune to EVERYTHING in some way.
No reload is by its nature predestined to extremely safe approaches, which means a lot of running away and staying out of sight while proxies do the work or take the hit. It's very hard to lose a no-reload to anything other than your taking risks you shouldn't - though admittedly that is part of the allure for many people, to see just how many bullets they can get into the chamber before Russian roulette becomes cleanup on aisle 2.
Spellbooks and mage specialists are randomised each time scs is installed. Mage specialisation is very important:if a mage does not use any illusions it means he is a necromancer and his finger of death will be at a bigger penalty to save! No evocation means enchanter, watch out for that chaos at -6 to save! (-10 with malison!)
Randomness applies to contingencies and triggers in scs everytime you load. A mage can have a simulacrum in one cc, but when you reload it may be wilting. The mage can use 3xlower resistance trigger if he targets Viconia, but may use remove+chaos+chain lightning if he targets another in a reload, etc.
Thus, in scs you need to be ready for anything. Have good observation/analysis skills. Use autopause to immediately react to threats and openings. And nice equipment/tactical tool kits like potions/scrolls and special weapons/ammo.
Use a strategy that involves not getting hit, rather than having the correct immunity up. Either keep away and just avoid direct contact, or be immune to EVERYTHING in some way.
I'm sure there are some instances/scenarios where running is not an option in an enclosed space (for eg. a mage will keep teleporting to you) or a scenario where, usually after a cut-scene, you get surrounded immediately by enemies or teleporting-in mages (I do recall there are several of those), what would the player do then?
Thus, in scs you need to be ready for anything. Have good observation/analysis skills. Use autopause to immediately react to threats and openings. And nice equipment/tactical tool kits like potions/scrolls and special weapons/ammo.
This exactly. I find SCS BG so refreshing after coming back from D3, which in my opinion was a cataclysmic flop in terms of gameplay.
johntyl
Member Posts: 400
Comments
Tbf it's not that much: some weapon defences and a couple of spell defences.
The Warden is tough though. Enjoy
Nobody is forcing you to play in ways you don't want to play.
It can't really hurt to try it out. Unlike a convertible, SCS costs nothing. You're missing out on the most popular and highly-rated mod for BG2.
You can also argue that the prebuffing component is inherently unfair as it gives the enemy casters all those short duration protective spells immediately, at once and for free (without costing them any spell slots). In comparison, it is actually impossible for the PC to cast 20 something protective spells without some of them wearing off in the process. Not to mention, having so many protective spells memorized would severely limit your in-combat casting capacity.
Finally, the whole concept of prebuffing is stupid because it basically forces you to metagame. You need to know you're about to fight a mage with specific spell protections to have the right anti-magic spells prepared. Also, if you happen to walk into a major mage fight without having your spell protections up, you're basically screwed. By the time you get even halfway through your buffing routine, the enemy caster has already cast time stop, summon dark planetar and Abi Dalzim's. Bam. Say hello to the game over screen.
So yeah, I'd only recommend the pre-buffing component if you a) have the patience of a saint and b) don't mind a healthy dose of metagaming and reloading. Otherwise, skip the component and go about enjoying the rest of this otherwise stellar mod.
But I do agree with @Ballad about the metagameness about it. Which makes me wonder, has anyone actually completed SCS BG (on its highest difficulty) without a single reload? That would be inconceivable.
In my install, a secret word to dispel spell shield, another secret word to dispel spell turning, (spell thrust can not dispel spell turning) then a spell thrust to take down both spell immunity:abjuration and minor globe should be enough to make him a target for breach. Ofcourse he will pull a trigger with spell deflection+spell shield+stoneskin out of his butt the moment he is breached. So you'll need to peel him off again. Jan and Aerie can do this if they devote their 4th lvl slots to secret words, save a stoneskin for themselves. If the enemy pulls a globe (6th lvl) and if in your install it blocks out secret word then it gets harder, as you'll need pierce magic (6th) which is harder for multi class magi like the two.
Now, the funny thing is that SCS is not even the hardest difficulty-enhancing mod out there. I am not sure if it still exists, but at some point in time there was a contraption called The Improved Anvil that was infamous for making its players tear their eyes out in frustration. Among other things, it made Immunity:Abjuration protect the caster against ALL abjuration spells (including Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Pierce Magic and so on). In practice, this made enemy spellcasters unkillable by parties with no access to Ruby Ray (which happens to be in the Alteration school). And if you tried to "cheat" by running and waiting for the spell to expire, there was a script that would reset the encounter and give the mage its spells back. Fun times. Or not.
Warden has different script in every scs version, or every installation randomises his spells, maybe. In one game he used dragon breath. In another installation he had a fallen planetar. I've seen imprisonment from him in the past as well. But if spell revisions are installed, scs enemies LOVE casting triple disintegrate triggers and black blades of disaster:spell revisions make these very damaging, akin to 3e approach. Without sr, they never cast disintegrating stuff (save sphere of chaos) but flesh to stone.
Improved anvil makes everything too radical and too hardcore. Everything is immune to traps, missile damage, and elemental damage. You can not run, areas are blocked/sealed and/or enemies get healed/refreshed when they can't see you. The mod creator wants you to be a 'man' and play 'fair' to sort it out in melee with every enemy. Only that, enemies have 8d10 damage melee weapons that dispel protections and illusions on hit, have great ac, attacks, pyschial resistances and regeneration to boot!
Really scs is VERY accomodating and kind to the player compared to ia. Ofcourse every player has different tastes and playstyles, plus scs is extremely customisable:no all or nothing aproach. You can customise the difficulty while installing.
No reload is by its nature predestined to extremely safe approaches, which means a lot of running away and staying out of sight while proxies do the work or take the hit. It's very hard to lose a no-reload to anything other than your taking risks you shouldn't - though admittedly that is part of the allure for many people, to see just how many bullets they can get into the chamber before Russian roulette becomes cleanup on aisle 2.
Randomness applies to contingencies and triggers in scs everytime you load. A mage can have a simulacrum in one cc, but when you reload it may be wilting. The mage can use 3xlower resistance trigger if he targets Viconia, but may use remove+chaos+chain lightning if he targets another in a reload, etc.
Thus, in scs you need to be ready for anything. Have good observation/analysis skills. Use autopause to immediately react to threats and openings. And nice equipment/tactical tool kits like potions/scrolls and special weapons/ammo.