Has Siege of Dragonspear Failed?
Calemyr
Member Posts: 238
So, recently I sat down to rev up a new full run of the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition Trilogy. Thought I'd try my hand at a shaman and bring in a different cast than I normally do, change things up a bit. So I started looking around, trying to get a new perspective on the characters to see what combination would be fun to use. Baldur's Gate I and II have miles upon miles of commentary on them, including the EE newcomers, talking about their effectiveness, their banters and interjections, who they work best with and who they'll come to blows with, fun gear options for them, scenes they really shine in, and so much else.
Siege of Dragonspear? Nothing. Bubkiss. Er, bubkis, though I get the impression there's more on the net about Bub Snikt getting a theoretical smooch than there is about the actual game of Siege of Dragonspear. DeviantArt's gotta have something, I'm sure.
@Lilura did address it in her walkthrough on it, detailing their initial gear and some commentary. But that's all of it. The gamefaqs page for SoD is empty. The forum for the game there is a ghost town. TVTropes, which can go on at length about anything, is astonishingly terse about it. Every freaking entry on google is talking about Mizhena or Minsc, be it to defend, decry, or discuss them. Everybody is talking around the game, but nobody is talking about the game.
Now, I'm not asking about whether the game is good or not. I personally enjoyed it, though there are a few elements that struck me with all the disappointment of biting into an onion when I ordered my cheeseburger plain. But I am curious: If nobody is actually talking about the game (least of all Beamdog themselves, regarding the lingering issues like tablet support and any form of update to BG2EE's roster), did this game fail? What constitutes success and failure? Is this game simply not as interesting as the troubles it generated?
Of course, it would be all too easy to give a gut reaction answer to this, but I would ask you to think about it before answering. I hope to start a discussion, not a fight.
Siege of Dragonspear? Nothing. Bubkiss. Er, bubkis, though I get the impression there's more on the net about Bub Snikt getting a theoretical smooch than there is about the actual game of Siege of Dragonspear. DeviantArt's gotta have something, I'm sure.
@Lilura did address it in her walkthrough on it, detailing their initial gear and some commentary. But that's all of it. The gamefaqs page for SoD is empty. The forum for the game there is a ghost town. TVTropes, which can go on at length about anything, is astonishingly terse about it. Every freaking entry on google is talking about Mizhena or Minsc, be it to defend, decry, or discuss them. Everybody is talking around the game, but nobody is talking about the game.
Now, I'm not asking about whether the game is good or not. I personally enjoyed it, though there are a few elements that struck me with all the disappointment of biting into an onion when I ordered my cheeseburger plain. But I am curious: If nobody is actually talking about the game (least of all Beamdog themselves, regarding the lingering issues like tablet support and any form of update to BG2EE's roster), did this game fail? What constitutes success and failure? Is this game simply not as interesting as the troubles it generated?
Of course, it would be all too easy to give a gut reaction answer to this, but I would ask you to think about it before answering. I hope to start a discussion, not a fight.
9
Comments
So you don't find it strange that there's nothing about this game outside of two echo-chamber forums? Fair enough. Ask a question, get an answer, I guess.
In contrast, Bioware's forums, where I'm a regular, is fairly active even while there is a lull between news of Mass Effect Andromeda and any new Dragon Age materials. It's quieted down some in this lull, but I would say it's an overall fairly active forum.
Maybe it's actually too recent of a release so people haven't purchased it yet or are still playing it rather than discussing it. I've had a hard time finding guides or articles going into detail on the game, all of the ones I've found are still incomplete.
Sales-wise, it certainly seems that SoD hit whatever internal goals Beamdog may have set with WotC, since they've been given the green light for whatever D&D project they're working on now (and for which, one assumes, they hired David Gaider in the first place). If the Wizards are happy, and Beamdog continues to produce D&D content, one can assume that's success enough.
That said? You're spot-on: almost nobody is talking about this game at all, even within circles that define themselves as RPG fans in general and BG fans in particular. Google M'Khiin and you get a dozen results leading back to this forum, a reddit thread or two, the brief TV Tropes entry, Lilura's walkthrough and that other incomplete guide on Wordpress. And that's it. These characters have not caught on with the broader fanbase, and their EE predecessors (Dorn, Rasaad, Hexxat and Neera) are only marginally more successful in that respect.
To be honest, I find it rather baffling, considering mod characters like freaking Saerileth are still generating discussion today. But no one's interested in the first goblin party member. And to top it all off, the immediate parallel that springs to mind is "Sword Coast Legends", because I can barely find any discussion of those characters either. So there's either a huge problem in WotC's marketing strategies that people aren't getting excited about these new additions to the landscape, or SCL and SoD are just too medicore to be perceived as worthwhile contributions on that level. Can't say either way, but it's worth consideration, I suppose.
Here. Knock yourself out.
I don't know to me it generated as much attention as I expected it to, except for the whole controversy. It's their first real project in a way I guess, remastered/enhanced content aside.
If we're talking comparative company sizes and similar genres, I'd put forth Harebrained Schemes' Shadowrun games. There's fanart everywhere, people talking about the characters, detailed walkthroughs... just a generally high degree of interest. Same for The Banner Saga. Meanwhile the only SoD fanart I've seen are those by the talented @Buttercheese and the requisite alternate portraits by @artastrophe. Only Beamdog fans would know or care about SoD being their first "real" project, though. Outside this particular echo chamber, you'd think there would be more affinity for SoD given the lengths Beamdog went through to hit the nostalgia button, especially by reuniting as much of the old voice cast as they could.
I don't know, maybe part of the problem really does lie with Beamdog's marketing tactics. Minsc is the most recognizable BG character - why didn't anyone sit down with Jim Cummings and interview him about what it was like to come back to the franchise? Why are the short stories and art for Corwin, Glint and M'Khiin relegated to some online magazine nobody reads, and not on the Dragonspear main page?
I've too found it difficult to find information on SOD. Usually when looking up info trying to remind myself where I found something or what results my action may have taken. Or what is this NPC even for? But all that comes up on google is SOD is here, or SOD controversy. And that one guide....
It is about how you define success. Sales wise I imagine it's done well, as they are willing to provide patches and updates.
Media-wise, if they can't spin some controversy out of it and create click-bait headlines, they aren't going to bother.
Fan reception, has been mixed. Many people have said they were worried after seeing all the bad press but enjoyed the game. There are plot holes and design choices that many people like to argue over but often it feels they are holding SOD to a higher standard and nitpicking it, which is harsh when the originals had many of their own problems we could disect, but those problems are old hat now.
Personally I think it has done well. I see an active forum, Reddit is fairly active, I see the occasionally lets play. Yes it's not as well publicised as some triple A titles but let's be realistic and consider that not as many people are going to get excited over such an old game. I know far to many people that would dismiss it just on the graphics.
I remember when POE came out, I could tell the age of the users based on the comments about how the graphics look dated and the game looked like it was from the 90's. It didn't matter that it was a new game using a modern engine. They are simply not used to seeing Isometric games and don't see a reason for them. They connect isometric with old. Things like RTS, stealth, and hardcore RPG's have all but died now that the game industry focuses on the mainstream which means the lowest common denominator. In the end, the games that are talked about and sell massive amounts are the ones that require no patience, no learning curve and no intelligence.
Beamdog did try to appeal to this crowd with story mode but many gamers probably can't get around the idea of a game without flashy graphics unless it is hip in an ironic sort of way. Think minecraft.
One last thing, I don't think SOD failed. It appealed to the audience it was after and that would be the minority of new gamers and a solid following of old ones that don't talk about it over the internet all the time. The new Torment Tides of Numenara game has 100,000 backers and I would assume most of them are 25 to 50 years old, working full time and trying to raise some kids. I do think Beamdog would do better if they got IGN to review SOD. Gamespot is a well known review site but IGN still seems to pull the most weight and they totally ignored SOD for whatever reason. They do review indie titles so I don't know why they didn't bother to review SOD considering it's blockbuster roots.
I'm well aware of what TVTropes is, you ass. It's a dying website that once was popular and covered everything that users could think of to cover. Now, it's a relic of the times when people didn't just get on Steam & discuss games in the Steam forums.
i thought SoD was great, the atmosphere they managed to create with the siege march was great, and the linear progression isn't new; it's like ToB. it's a road trip. i finally got to play an entire party of misfits. it's a great bridge chapter if you look at the whole trilogy as one long game. you end at your lowest point in the series, hated and betrayed, but i think that's the perfect start to the act where you seize godhood.
i don't think the controversy helped, but the complaints seem to be about this weird made-up version of SoD where mizhena talks about her tumblr instead of how many asses she's beat that week. even i managed to get discouraged about purchasing it until i read a little more deeply into the "controversy" and realized a significant portion of the complaints were nerds trying too hard not to sound offended by gay gnomes and the more practical applications of the girdle of masculinity/femininity. or grasping at straws by freaking out about design choices you can turn off in the graphics settings, absolutely shitting over bugs, etc.
this is beside the point, but: in baldur's gate 1 my pc rescued the baby from the wolfwere's lair and i never found out what quest he belonged to so she carried him around in her bag for the whole rest of the game and he stayed at the coalition camp while she went off to war. it is still a kick in my heart's balls when i remember he's probably being raised by like, frickin, priests or corwin or whatever. orphans losing their foster parents left and right up in here.
I agree the marketing could have been better but I think the problem lies with the controversy that surrounded the game. Talking about it, or drawing about it might bring unwanted attention to a person's work.
Also, I find it fascinating that this "niche expansion to a game originally released 15 years ago" somehow has no presence in venues familiar to people who were active on the web in the last 15 years. If the game is for old farts who remember when BG1's cutscenes were cutting edge, why is it the only venues that matter are those frequented by young pups who don't? There's a disparity there that honestly kinda bothers me.