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Has Siege of Dragonspear Failed?

CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
So, recently I sat down to rev up a new full run of the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition Trilogy. Thought I'd try my hand at a shaman and bring in a different cast than I normally do, change things up a bit. So I started looking around, trying to get a new perspective on the characters to see what combination would be fun to use. Baldur's Gate I and II have miles upon miles of commentary on them, including the EE newcomers, talking about their effectiveness, their banters and interjections, who they work best with and who they'll come to blows with, fun gear options for them, scenes they really shine in, and so much else.

Siege of Dragonspear? Nothing. Bubkiss. Er, bubkis, though I get the impression there's more on the net about Bub Snikt getting a theoretical smooch than there is about the actual game of Siege of Dragonspear. DeviantArt's gotta have something, I'm sure.

@Lilura did address it in her walkthrough on it, detailing their initial gear and some commentary. But that's all of it. The gamefaqs page for SoD is empty. The forum for the game there is a ghost town. TVTropes, which can go on at length about anything, is astonishingly terse about it. Every freaking entry on google is talking about Mizhena or Minsc, be it to defend, decry, or discuss them. Everybody is talking around the game, but nobody is talking about the game.

Now, I'm not asking about whether the game is good or not. I personally enjoyed it, though there are a few elements that struck me with all the disappointment of biting into an onion when I ordered my cheeseburger plain. But I am curious: If nobody is actually talking about the game (least of all Beamdog themselves, regarding the lingering issues like tablet support and any form of update to BG2EE's roster), did this game fail? What constitutes success and failure? Is this game simply not as interesting as the troubles it generated?

Of course, it would be all too easy to give a gut reaction answer to this, but I would ask you to think about it before answering. I hope to start a discussion, not a fight.

shawneButtercheeseRavenslightFinneousPJAbi_DalzimLiluraKampfKaninchenQuartzCrevsDaak
«1345678

Comments

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    No, I don't think it failed at all. I do think that a lot of the sites you mentioned are pretty arbitrary with what ends up on there.

    mf2112Mr2150CrevsDaak
  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    You think so? TVTropes and GameFAQs are user generated content, and propelled by user interest. The fact that they're either empty or sparse rather surprised me.

    shawneQuartzCrevsDaak
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    I agree. Most of the discussions I've seen have just been about Mizhena/Minsc/etc and less about the actual content of the game. Even this forum is not as active as I would have expected considering it's only been a few months since the DLC's release.

    In contrast, Bioware's forums, where I'm a regular, is fairly active even while there is a lull between news of Mass Effect Andromeda and any new Dragon Age materials. It's quieted down some in this lull, but I would say it's an overall fairly active forum.

    Maybe it's actually too recent of a release so people haven't purchased it yet or are still playing it rather than discussing it. I've had a hard time finding guides or articles going into detail on the game, all of the ones I've found are still incomplete.

    semiticgod
  • jtthjtth Member Posts: 171
    Calemyr said:

    Ha! Yep. I'm an old, old man. I'll cop to it. Though I would not relegate Dark Souls III and Fallout 4 to the retirement home quite yet, despite their having an active presence on such ancient venues.

    So you don't find it strange that there's nothing about this game outside of two echo-chamber forums? Fair enough. Ask a question, get an answer, I guess.

    This game has been played by less than a fraction of a percent of the people who have played those games. The scope and specialization are totally different.

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited June 2016
    When did such displays of enthusiasm become gauche in the BG fanbase?

    shawne
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    jtth said:

    People are posting here or on Steam. Who still posts at those places? Maybe a decade ago, but now?

    Who still posts at TV Tropes? Are you serious? Doom 2016 has pages and pages of entries; Mirror's Edge Catalyst just came out last week and already has a solid list. But there's almost nothing for SoD or the EEs - hell, I had to put in a big chunk of info about the first batch of EE characters myself.

    QuartzCrevsDaak
  • sparkleavsparkleav Member Posts: 871
    edited June 2016
    I think marketing is a big thing here. How much promotion did the DLC actually get? If I weren't a BG fan, I probably wouldn't have known the EEs or Dragonspear existed. The 'controversy' created a huge amount of publicity so everything on the Internet seems to be based around that (the negative is always hyped up and skewed more so than the positive) but nothing much on the actual game, gameplay etc.

    ThacoBell
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Calemyr said:

    You think so? TVTropes and GameFAQs are user generated content, and propelled by user interest. The fact that they're either empty or sparse rather surprised me.

    GameFAQs has been dead for years. TVTropes is...mainly "tv tropes".

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    What sites have I been going to, then?

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited June 2016


    GameFAQs has been dead for years. TVTropes is...mainly "tv tropes".

    Okay, so you basically have no idea what TVTropes is, how it works or what it contains. You could've just said so.

    Here. Knock yourself out.

    Post edited by shawne on
    QuartzCrevsDaak
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    I liked the game, and it was well made, but I can't say the same about the romances. BG is a fantasy game, homos, bisexs, trans, do they fit a fantasy game? Romances make the game a little more spicy, but there should be a limit.

  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    Because it would not be a fantasy game anymore. In a fantasy game i would see a romance between drows and elves, racial enemies, and so on. The original version of BG had no romances at all. The sequel added 4 romances, the EE has gone too far, but everyone has his own opinion.

    ConjurerDragonQuartz
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    I'm not sure I like the comparison with any new Bioware game or basically any other big fish company. PoE would have been better comparison or other similar remastered titles(with new content)

    I don't know to me it generated as much attention as I expected it to, except for the whole controversy. It's their first real project in a way I guess, remastered/enhanced content aside.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited June 2016
    batoor said:

    I'm not sure I like the comparison with any new Bioware game or basically any other big fish company. PoE would have been better comparison or other similar remastered titles(with new content)

    I disagree that PoE is a useful comparison, if only because it was one of the first KS campaigns to really exceed any and all expectations - everybody knew about it.

    If we're talking comparative company sizes and similar genres, I'd put forth Harebrained Schemes' Shadowrun games. There's fanart everywhere, people talking about the characters, detailed walkthroughs... just a generally high degree of interest. Same for The Banner Saga. Meanwhile the only SoD fanart I've seen are those by the talented @Buttercheese and the requisite alternate portraits by @artastrophe.
    batoor said:

    I don't know to me it generated as much attention as I expected it to, except for the whole controversy. It's their first real project in a way I guess, remastered/enhanced content aside.

    Only Beamdog fans would know or care about SoD being their first "real" project, though. Outside this particular echo chamber, you'd think there would be more affinity for SoD given the lengths Beamdog went through to hit the nostalgia button, especially by reuniting as much of the old voice cast as they could.

    I don't know, maybe part of the problem really does lie with Beamdog's marketing tactics. Minsc is the most recognizable BG character - why didn't anyone sit down with Jim Cummings and interview him about what it was like to come back to the franchise? Why are the short stories and art for Corwin, Glint and M'Khiin relegated to some online magazine nobody reads, and not on the Dragonspear main page?

    sparkleavbatoor
  • PandaManPandaMan Member Posts: 4
    Trying very hard to ignore the troll in the room....

    I've too found it difficult to find information on SOD. Usually when looking up info trying to remind myself where I found something or what results my action may have taken. Or what is this NPC even for? But all that comes up on google is SOD is here, or SOD controversy. And that one guide....

    It is about how you define success. Sales wise I imagine it's done well, as they are willing to provide patches and updates.

    Media-wise, if they can't spin some controversy out of it and create click-bait headlines, they aren't going to bother.

    Fan reception, has been mixed. Many people have said they were worried after seeing all the bad press but enjoyed the game. There are plot holes and design choices that many people like to argue over but often it feels they are holding SOD to a higher standard and nitpicking it, which is harsh when the originals had many of their own problems we could disect, but those problems are old hat now.

    Personally I think it has done well. I see an active forum, Reddit is fairly active, I see the occasionally lets play. Yes it's not as well publicised as some triple A titles but let's be realistic and consider that not as many people are going to get excited over such an old game. I know far to many people that would dismiss it just on the graphics.

    mf2112sparkleavThacoBellsemiticgod
  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    shawne said:

    Don't feed the troll, people. Stay on topic.

    Yes, whoever doesn't agree is a "troll", don't feed the "troll", the most common copy and paste comment. Fact, romances are part of this game and a possible reason of a failure according to someone, but i don't agree the game has failed, so when i said something about romances I don't think i went OT, but whatever.

    semiticgodQuartz
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited June 2016
    I don't know for sure but I think one of the main reasons is the age of the audience. The BG games are old. When I was in high school I rarely talked about movies, games and music that was 25 years old. That is not to say that I didn't appreciate it but it's already been talked about to death. SOD is just an expansion using the same 25 year old engine. Most teens are probably not interested because they are more into modern games like COD. Teens are the majority of people that get excited and post all over the internet about games and pop stars.

    I remember when POE came out, I could tell the age of the users based on the comments about how the graphics look dated and the game looked like it was from the 90's. It didn't matter that it was a new game using a modern engine. They are simply not used to seeing Isometric games and don't see a reason for them. They connect isometric with old. Things like RTS, stealth, and hardcore RPG's have all but died now that the game industry focuses on the mainstream which means the lowest common denominator. In the end, the games that are talked about and sell massive amounts are the ones that require no patience, no learning curve and no intelligence.

    Beamdog did try to appeal to this crowd with story mode but many gamers probably can't get around the idea of a game without flashy graphics unless it is hip in an ironic sort of way. Think minecraft.

    One last thing, I don't think SOD failed. It appealed to the audience it was after and that would be the minority of new gamers and a solid following of old ones that don't talk about it over the internet all the time. The new Torment Tides of Numenara game has 100,000 backers and I would assume most of them are 25 to 50 years old, working full time and trying to raise some kids. I do think Beamdog would do better if they got IGN to review SOD. Gamespot is a well known review site but IGN still seems to pull the most weight and they totally ignored SOD for whatever reason. They do review indie titles so I don't know why they didn't bother to review SOD considering it's blockbuster roots.

    sparkleavAerakar
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited June 2016
    @LoveViconia: You're recycling musty, tired, old arguments that have already been discussed, dissected and shot down on this forum. If you're doing it on purpose, you're a troll. If you're not, you're an idiot. Either way, nobody cares.

  • LoveViconiaLoveViconia Member Posts: 196
    edited June 2016
    shawne said:

    @LoveViconia: You're recycling musty, tired, old arguments that have already been discussed, dissected and shot down on this forum. If you're doing it on purpose, you're a troll. If you're not, you're an idiot. Either way, nobody cares.

    No, i said romances could be one of the reason this game has been rejected by some players, i don't care about the old drama, and i never took part of it at all. Words like Idiot keep them for yourself.

    Post edited by LoveViconia on
    KampfKaninchensemiticgod
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    shawne said:


    Okay, so you basically have no idea what TVTropes is, how it works or what it contains. You could've just said so.

    Here. Knock yourself out.

    It was joke.../facepalm

    I'm well aware of what TVTropes is, you ass. It's a dying website that once was popular and covered everything that users could think of to cover. Now, it's a relic of the times when people didn't just get on Steam & discuss games in the Steam forums.

  • amikaamika Member Posts: 34
    i'm not sure if we can go by forum discussions or gamefaqs/tvtropes pages to see what's "good" anymore; i think the internet's just different than when the originals came out. if you were really thirsty for more of the original baldur's gate trilogy or really wanted your opinions out there or wanted to be an authority, you had to, like, join spellhold studios and write guides and walkthroughs and stuff. now you can post about it on steam and twitter and everything's a lot more ephemeral i guess?

    i thought SoD was great, the atmosphere they managed to create with the siege march was great, and the linear progression isn't new; it's like ToB. it's a road trip. i finally got to play an entire party of misfits. it's a great bridge chapter if you look at the whole trilogy as one long game. you end at your lowest point in the series, hated and betrayed, but i think that's the perfect start to the act where you seize godhood.

    i don't think the controversy helped, but the complaints seem to be about this weird made-up version of SoD where mizhena talks about her tumblr instead of how many asses she's beat that week. even i managed to get discouraged about purchasing it until i read a little more deeply into the "controversy" and realized a significant portion of the complaints were nerds trying too hard not to sound offended by gay gnomes and the more practical applications of the girdle of masculinity/femininity. or grasping at straws by freaking out about design choices you can turn off in the graphics settings, absolutely shitting over bugs, etc.

    this is beside the point, but: in baldur's gate 1 my pc rescued the baby from the wolfwere's lair and i never found out what quest he belonged to so she carried him around in her bag for the whole rest of the game and he stayed at the coalition camp while she went off to war. it is still a kick in my heart's balls when i remember he's probably being raised by like, frickin, priests or corwin or whatever. orphans losing their foster parents left and right up in here.

    mf2112sparkleavThacoBell
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,403
    Calemyr said:

    Ha! Yep. I'm an old, old man. I'll cop to it. Though I would not relegate Dark Souls III and Fallout 4 to the retirement home quite yet, despite their having an active presence on such ancient venues.

    So you don't find it strange that there's nothing about this game outside of two echo-chamber forums? Fair enough. Ask a question, get an answer, I guess.

    you are comparing two triple AAA overly hyped games to a niche expansion from a game originally released 15 years ago. Of course those two titles would have a more active presence than SoD. Comparing it to something like the Banner Saga (which was released 2 years ago) is also a little unfair since SoD is still in the early adopter stage as well. The expansion, IIRC, hasn't gone on sale anywhere so some potential buyers maybe waiting for that before partaking in the expansion.

    I agree the marketing could have been better but I think the problem lies with the controversy that surrounded the game. Talking about it, or drawing about it might bring unwanted attention to a person's work.

  • CalemyrCalemyr Member Posts: 226
    edited June 2016
    deltago said:

    It's a dying website that once was popular and covered everything that users could think of to cover. Now, it's a relic of the times when people didn't just get on Steam & discuss games in the Steam forums.

    Wouldn't it be more honest to say "it's a website that I have no interest in and therefore is irrelevant to me"? The site is still frequented and read by a goodly number of people. Not you, sure, but that's not to say not anyone.
    deltago said:

    you are comparing two triple AAA overly hyped games to a niche expansion from a game originally released 15 years ago. Of course those two titles would have a more active presence than SoD.

    Actually, I'm referring to a long-awaited addition to a story so beloved by a dedicated fan-base that they were still making mods for it when BG1EE hit the market a decade and a half later, one that brings together a long separated cast of voice actors to reprise fan favorite characters. I'm referring to the Star Wars Episode VII of video games. How strange that this must also be referring to unnecessary addition to a forgettable re-release of an old game nobody cares about anymore.

    Also, I find it fascinating that this "niche expansion to a game originally released 15 years ago" somehow has no presence in venues familiar to people who were active on the web in the last 15 years. If the game is for old farts who remember when BG1's cutscenes were cutting edge, why is it the only venues that matter are those frequented by young pups who don't? There's a disparity there that honestly kinda bothers me.

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