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Has Siege of Dragonspear Failed?



  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited June 2016
    Actually Alexa shows that has gone down from ~2800 in the global website visitor ranking to ~3200 over the past 4 months, not sure why exactly but they have lost a number of monthly visitors recently. I would guess cord-cutters maybe? Big compared to at ~61000 global. Still though, it is fairly far down compared to which is at 380th global right now. That is a site where SoD could use some love.

    tvtropes does have an SoD page as well.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016
    Calemyr said:

    deltago said:

    It's a dying website that once was popular and covered everything that users could think of to cover. Now, it's a relic of the times when people didn't just get on Steam & discuss games in the Steam forums.

    Wouldn't it be more honest to say "it's a website that I have no interest in and therefore is irrelevant to me"? The site is still frequented and read by a goodly number of people. Not you, sure, but that's not to say not anyone.
    You misquoted, and no. It wouldn't be more accurate. Forums and sites like TVTropes are dying. It's a fact. Game forums like Beamdog being fairly active don't mean it isn't so. You can thank social media for that. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing. Progress must happen, whether we like it or not.

  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,263
    I think the game is a success that is overshadowed by its controversy. And when I say controversy, I mean making a mountain out of a molehill.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Whether TVTropes is "dying" or not, based on whatever parameters you're using, is completely beside the point. The fact of the matter is that new games are still being analyzed, dissected and written up, and SoD's entries are sparse at best. That suggests a problem that has nothing at all to do with the site's popularity or lack thereof.

  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 549
    Has Siege of Dragonspear Failed?

    For Beamdog and the powers that be? What was their goal? Did they produce SoD with the goal of promoting regime change in Bhutan? In which case, yes it's been a big fat failure.

    Or did they produce SoD with the sole purpose of making me happy? In which case the game was a big success!

    Or maybe they had other priorities - maybe something to do with units sold, or doing something they wanted to, or as a springboard to something else, or to win a wager? In which case I have no idea.

    Selfishly though, I've never been to Bhutan and I don't have shares in Beamdog. But I do like playing the BG series, and I did enjoy Siege of Dragonspear.

    So my personal answer. No

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 865
    I like to think SoD would've been a bigger hit had it used 1.3's fantastic stability, ease-of-use and familiarness.

    all the drama though? Could care less. I'm here for videogames.

  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 630
    @SirBatince: My feelings exactly. The new UI has a sense of being something new just for the sake of it. Mind you, I don't dislike it, but when I try to list all the things that are significantly better than in 1.3, I come up with... nothing. Conversely, when I think of things that are significantly worse than in 1.3, the two obvious things are the journal and the black areas around the maps. Both are friggin' awful.

    My personal sense is that SoD was a clear success: a very good adventure that kept me going until the end and didn't disappoint. But whether it was a success for the developers, I don't know (and would like to).

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2016

    I think the problem is, that the target group for this game is tiny.

    It is worth noting that "tiny" here is defined as 500,000+ sales on Steam (last I'd heard), an unknown amount of sales on GOG, and an unknown amount of sales from Beamdog itself. Very few games with a "narrow target audience" accomplish such a feat. Just putting things into perspective.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 865
    do you have a source for those steam sales?

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,601
    I must admit that I was very surprised when Beamdog chose to release a new game (albeit an expansion) together with a new version of the game mechanics as one package. Risk analysis states quite clearly that the two should have been released separately because there will always be problems with a new game, just as there will always be problems with a new system. Rather, common business sense says; release one, fix the bugs, then release the other and fix those bugs - don't allow the shortfalls of one to tarnish the reputation of the other.
    I am by the way speaking as someone who worked for many years in New Product Development for a multi-national company.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    I don't have any numbers but I don't see how the GG controversy couldn't have hurt. I couldn't disagree more with @Ravenslight that this was the result of unfortunate comments during an interview. I saw nothing wrong with comments themselves and if you weren't looking to be offended you weren't. Also, bullies bear full responsibility for their actions.

    After that the controversy became the thing to talk about and the talk about the game itself was lost.

    I do agree that Beamdog should have avoided changing the engine while added new content. ( I just want content dammit! ) And I maintain that Beamdog would have been better to stand up to the bully than to make concessions.

    The good news that Greenwood is back in the saddle at WOTC and he is anything but transphobic so knowing that the reactionaries hated the game probably *helped* Beamdog secure the rights to future games.

  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975

    I disagree that GG and the terrible transphobic attitudes that some people hold were the only contributing factors in the storm that ensued.

    And I disagree with your disagreement, since there was absolutely no reaction to any interviews when they first were made - it was only once there was controversy that retroactively the interviews became hot topics (often with a clear ignorance as to when they were made, and who was in charge of what).

    But this discussion is very much irrelevant to this thread.

    In a relevant point to this thread, it's hard to gauge how niche SoD is and thus what really constituted "success", but the sheer age of the BG games and the fact a significant portion of the BG fanbase didn't embrace the EEs and instead stuck with the old versions would lead me to guess it's pretty niche indeed.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    edited June 2016
    I would note that you have shifted from the criticizing the comments made in an interview to criticizing the game. Which is fine but it's a different point.

    Of course there are things to criticize about the game -- heck, I'll repeat what I've said before. 1. The game is overly linear 2. You had information -- such as the conversation between the hooded man and hephernan (sp?) that had no impact upon future dialogues 3. It was mistake to bundle the engine changes with new content. 4. The UI is fugly.

    But those things have nothing to do with the statements in the interview. I'll paraphrase those: Jaheria and Safana got personality upgrades (true) and BG1 Jaheria was sexist stereotype (duh). I'm not saying you shouldn't criticize the game, neither am I suggesting your attitudes are anything but enlightened only that by placing blame (in part) on the interview statements you blame the victim.

    Separate your critique of the game from your critique of the interview I suspect we will agree entirely @Ravenslight.

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,611
    edited June 2016
    I think that they brought more attention to the interview than it might have otherwise gotten. I’m not sure how many were even aware of it before that. I know that in my case, it was only after the storm was going strong that I tried to find out what in the world everyone was so upset about. I was not aware of it before that point.

    None the less, my point is that there were people upset about some statements that had nothing to do with the barbaric attitudes of the haters.

    I’m not sure what your referring to. Nothing in my last statement criticized the game itself. Not that I don’t have some criticisms, I am for instance not happy with the current UI, but I said nothing of the kind in my last post.

    @killerrabbit said:
    I'll paraphrase those: Jaheria and Safana got personality upgrades (true) and BG1 Jaheria was sexist stereotype (duh).

    As far as the contents of the interview, you have every right to agree with all the statements that it contained. But it is not fair to expect everyone to feel the same. The fact is that there were people who disagreed with those statements, and were upset by them.

    Another thread could be started where it could be endlessly argued whether those statements were true, but that has nothing to do with the point that I was trying to make.

    In answer to the question of whether or not SoD failed, I was stating that I do not believe that it did. Only that there were factors that I personally believe contributed to it not being immediately as well received as it might have been.

  • KaliestoKaliesto Member Posts: 268
    edited June 2016
    The issues with the story has been addressed, and everything has cooled down after that incident, but I believe the reason why Baldur's Gate SOD failed is because of the lack of purchasing choices, and due to the amount of bugs which is currently being worked on. I'm going to be honest. I was not happy you could not get SoD through Amazon or through physical stores here in the USA. Maybe I'm a dying breed, and I need to make way for the Digital Sorcerers that cloudkill anybody that dares question their immortality called Digital (When I know digital copies can go away in a blink of a eye if GoG or Steam were to disappear one day). Add insult to injury that the discs I got does not even have patch support. I feel like I'm being punished for wanting the disc versions. The only nice thing about those physicals are I got..were the posters I guess. I know I've been rambling on about it in couple of related threads, I just feel like I got burnt for it. I really don't like these contractors that BeamDog is working with. They caused more damage than I ever seen with a company.

    Post edited by Kaliesto on
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 865
    I found the dialogue TOB-tier. You have alot of choices but they all get the same response.

    Remember Cyric? Anything goes "Ha I expected you to say as such". Boring.

    Felt the same in sod

  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    edited June 2016
    I had fun with the game and it exceeded my expectations, especially considering some of the bad reviews and the fact that I didn't care much for the additional content in the EE games.

    That said, yes, the controversy definitely overshadowed everything else in the game. The game has been out for a couple months and you can't even find basic things like exp/thac0 tables for the shaman.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    mylegbig said:

    I had fun with the game and it exceeded my expectations, especially considering some of the bad reviews and the fact that I didn't care much for the additional content in the EE games.

    That said, yes, the controversy definitely overshadowed everything else in the game. The game has been out for a couple months and you can't even find basic things like exp/thac0 tables for the shaman.

    The Adventurer's Guide has the shaman tables.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    BG2 is 15 years older, and has about twice as long tvtropes page. If you measure success or failure in tvtropes content, then i wouldn't say it is a failure.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,630
    you really should not use tv tropes as a measure if something is sucessful or not. sod just did not have that much to add to it's page. and saying tv tropes is dead is silly as there is so much e3 stuff being added that it's amazing. if anything it's the forum thats dead and no one uses that.

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