There was a little bit of Waterdeep in Hordes of the Underdark. But yeah, there is only so much you can do with town that is based on medieval central Europe. I for one would welcome a setting that isn't so overdone.
Forgotten Realms has so much to offer, yet most we get to see is the Sword Coast.
Kara-tur could be fun. Especially if it contains cool content like from the 3rd edition Oriental Adventures book with races like the Hengeyokai alongside the normal race options. Of course updated for 5e and such.
1) Game should be easy to mod (the reason why I am still playing Baldurs Gate today)
2) BG1-quality NPC's with banter and romances. The most memorable NPC's I have ever encountered in a video game (incredible voice acting, some really lovable personalities, no shoehorned shit, no token characters and definitely no SJW and LGBQTXSKDLFSLDFKL bullshit).
3) Infinity engine. I know that this probably won't happen since creating sprites and handdrawn backgrounds is a pain in the ass (compared to creating 3D models), but the reason why I always favoured the BG series (beautiful 2D) over the NWN series (horrible looking 3D models and environemnts) was the art style.
I'm a bit worried about the Waterdeep Rumours. I'm not keen on such a large, generic city as a major location. IWD benefits hugely from it's atmospheric setting.
I'm excited about waterdeep. It's a great setting that we haven't seen before. It should be like Amn and Baldurs Gate. Sprawling city, quests in the wilderness and dungeons under the city.
Quests, quests, quests. I want loads o' content.
That's the problem. Waterdeep is just like Baldur's Gate. And Neverwinter, and Luskan. A generic pseudo-medieval city that we have seen so many times before. Only it's bigger, so to get the sense of that we would have to spend more time in the city, and less time out doors in the fresh air.
The Forgotten Realms is huge, with so many interesting places to visit.
@Fardragon consider adding -- not waterdeep or not a city setting to the three things we don't want thread.
If I were a writer I'd avoid the Calimport assignment and ask that it be assigned to someone who was raised in the middle east and has an appreciation for those myths. So many opportunities to stereotype . . .
Still, Calimport could great if it was well done -- as would a game where you jump portal to portal to interesting places in the FR. Still, I like the idea of waterdeep,
As long as a large city is done right, and not generically, I would love for it to be in the game. Baldur's gate works so well because it has a lot of highly detailed landmarks that the player can visit. Such as Sundries and the Hall of Wonders.
BG2 also had this to a degree with each of its districts having a different flair.
More recent games (I am looking at you NWN) had just a generic insert-large-city here that you wouldn't be able to distinguish it from one large city to another if you didn't know its name.
So, as long as their is a proper lore and canon found in the said city, I'd say include it.
1. I want you (i.e. as a person as well as Beamdog collectively) to make design choices you genuinely believe in and want to make, not ones forced on you by the community, by political trends or by the Great Dread Lords of the In-House and Outlander Marketing Teams.
2. I'd like to see ways to end the game prematurely and escape the dreaded main quest other than simply dying. Having the option to say "Screw you, prophecies. Screw you stupid fetch-quests. I'm done." vastly improves immersion. A Planescape: Torment spoiler gives an excellent example of this.
The Nameless One was e.g. able to sit on the dead nations' throne as their king, for an eternity. Two or three lines of dialogue and a brief cutscene of him walking up to the piece of furniture. Immersion skyrockets because the choice is there.
Bonus points if the storytelling allows the player to ignore a time-sensitive quest for a while and then resume it later with some noticeable penalties (even if only expressed in dialogue, e.g. What the hell is wrong with you?! I'm your sister/boyfriend/indispensable-spell-component and it took you 60 years to rescue me?! I don't trust you anymore.) or even a totally different final outcome resulting from the passage of time.
3. I'd like to see no invincible celebrities and plot-critical NPCs. If celebrities like Drizzts, Volos and Elminsters are to be found in-game, make them as vulnerable as they should be. Allow them to be defeated realistically, without resorting to cheesy tactics. It's a world where most people can be revived with a bag of coin, anyway. Make other NPCs remark on the fact of a major personna being rumoured dead. Plot-critical NPCs should never be invincible. Getting this right is not as difficult as it seems. Give them keys. Give them chests. Give them little locked books with glitter on them and Dear, Deer DiARy..! scribbled on every page, so that the player can pretend they were sent by the dead questgiver, and maybe even bed their wife. You get the picture.
4. Number 4 out of 3, just because I can, is about getting yourselves a producer or director who will grab the actual cup of coffee with each and every one of you to find out what exactly you envision the game to be like, and will then tell you No-no, man, this is pure weird-cat-lady kind of shit, this ain't nothing like you told me you wanted it to be when necessary and will even help you figure out what it is that you envision if you never knew in the first place. I could help you with that, but I trust there are others you could hire, even if not as demanding as this here deity.
@God #2 totally happened in a tabletop game I was in. It wasn't 60 years, but the children we were supposed to rescue ended up being fully grown adults by the time we got around to saving them. (Also the cult that had captured them didn't scale to our level; we wiped out their entire operation in about two rounds of combat.)
@Fardragon consider adding -- not waterdeep or not a city setting to the three things we don't want thread.
If I were a writer I'd avoid the Calimport assignment and ask that it be assigned to someone who was raised in the middle east and has an appreciation for those myths. So many opportunities to stereotype . . .
Still, Calimport could great if it was well done -- as would a game where you jump portal to portal to interesting places in the FR. Still, I like the idea of waterdeep,
Baldur's Gate is stereotypical Hollywood-Medieval, I don't see why Calimport need be any more "authentic". It's a fantasy city in a fantasy world.
1. A quickbar type thing (much like NWN2) where you can drag items/abilities/etc) for easy access. Also a method of inventory management would be good (again NWN2 had a basic sort function). My least favourite part of playing is when the game turns in BG:EE Inventory Management edition.
2. Isometric for me, however again NWN2 had different camera options which could suit here.
3. No romances. They are at best clumsy and trite and at worst just plain cringeworthy. If the need to dedicate significant resource to add them in is present then have them branch off so that if you refuse the advances of an NPC that the PC/NPC character relationship development isn't curtailed. Banter/friendship development would be a much more worthy goal - it always bemuses me that people need to develop romances in their party, even if their human has an CHA of 3...
4. Bonus point. Make the world alive with stuff that doesn't directly involve the PC. SoD made good strides in bringing the world a bit more alive with random animals etc. Non recruitable NPCs should often have their own agenda/thing to do/McGuffin which may or may not intersect with the PC.
@David_Gaider 5E game Real time with pause Set in the FR somewhere that was not explored before in a game. Kara-Tur feels nice. Sigil as well is a place I've always wanted to explore.
1: great story and great companions 2: would like different origin stories like dragon age origins (but i can go without) 3: set in either dragonlance or ravenloft, (not enough games for those )
1) I don't want any real-world issues pressed into my escapism gaming. I don't want a star-trek style idealized version of a fantasy reality, either.
2) I want a story more akin to KOTOR2's in scope, rather than the common Bioware-style narrative of saving the world. More personal, less epic.
3) LESS characters, LESS locations, LESS 'romances', MORE development focused around a smaller cast of area's and characters. No romances for the sake of having them ("okay now we have 1 gay, 1 bi, and 1 straight romance, 1 elf romance, 1 dwarf romance, 1 dragon romance, check!"), no huge area's for the sake of having huge area's, no 15-person roster's of party members for the sake of having them.
Why not both things? BG was BOTH, personal and epic. NWN 1 was (or aimed) to be just epic and, story wise, it was the worst of the lot (BG, NWN 2 or PST. The HoU expansion "fixed" that).
Just personal might work, but there is nothing wrong making it epic also. Everybody likes to feel it is doing something important, something that will leave its mark upon the world.
Why not both things? BG was BOTH, personal and epic. NWN 1 was (or aimed) to be just epic and, story wise, it was the worst of the lot (BG, NWN 2 or PST. The HoU expansion "fixed" that).
Just personal might work, but there is nothing wrong making it epic also. Everybody likes to feel it is doing something important, something that will leave its mark upon the world.
Because I've played 15 epic games and 2 personal in the last five years, and that's Planescape: Torment and Knights of the Old Republic 2, coincidentally in my eyes two of the best games of all time (league's beyond Baldur's Gate in terms of protagonist development and storyline depth).
Let's just say that personal > epic. No reason why we can't have both, but the first one is more impactful and allows for a deeper roleplaying experience. We don't need another Elder Scrolls.
Let's just say that personal > epic. No reason why we can't have both, but the first one is more impactful and allows for a deeper roleplaying experience. We don't need another Elder Scrolls.
I would have said the Elder Scrolls where personal, rather than epic. You wander around doing your own thing, maybe getting involved in greater events or not, as the whim takes you.
PS:T is the greatest game I have every played, but as an RPG it barely qualifies, with an essentially pre-generated character. Which is often the trouble with "personal" stories: the writer creates the protagonist, not the player.
IMO KotOR1 >> KotOR2. The Star Wars universe is completely the wrong franchise for that kind of story, even leaving aside the dull gameplay and companions.
First on topic, here are my points ^^: 1) Believeable characters (Partymembers, NPCs etc) with intresting and maybe even shapeable development
2) Decent romance options (I love pursuing them , just don't have them break up just because she is the most sensible one in a leadership position x_x)
3) An intresting plot with at least some variations (for replayability ^^)
4) Pause funktion or turn-based combat, I don't like hectic games ^^'
5) optional: having some elements of the game become part of the Forgotten Realms canon
I personally say that PS:T is among the best (western) CRPGs. (BG2 will still always hold a special spot in my heart, making it my second favorite game )
I fail to see why having a history disqualifies it as an RPG. Putting aside arguments about the actual definition of this genre, most games give your character a backstory. Sure, some keep it rather vague, but the ones that are often called as the "best" CRPGs have some sort of backstory.
Baldurs Gate gives you information about where you grew up, a (substitute) family, information about how you got that class and an entire prophecy about your live..
KotORs backstories are plot points. PS:T is rather vague, but still gives you info.
Dragon Age 1 gives you the choice of 6 backstories (which are explored) Dragon Age 2 has a pretty obvious history Dragon Age Inquisition keeps it vague. Never played ME1, but the second entry made me think you also have a character that has a backstory.
Games with a blank slate protagonist are rare.. even most Hack'n'Slay games -which barely have a story- give you some info on motivation or background.
I severly dislike the Elder Scroll games, so I can't say much about them.
If you say a RPG needs to give you the chance to *become* the character than I think giving you choices is more important than the backstory, since chosing where you are going is more important (and harder to ignore) than where you came from.
Baldur's Gate gives you a backstory. However, your race, gender, class, and appearance are up to you. PST takes those choices away from you. Not that it stops it being a great game, but it's not what I'm generally looking for in an RPG.
Baldur's Gate manages to tell a story that is both personal and Epic. The trick is to find the balance. NWNOC leaves too much to the player, DA2 leaves too little.
FYI Mass Effect gives you a fixed backstory (with a little customisation), but allows you to choose class, gender and appearance.
The narrower the focus on the protagonist, the greater development that can come from it. PS:T is an excellent example of this. The more options that developers/writers have to account for, the less development that protagonist is going to receive. I've noticed this trend since my early days of gaming.
KOTOR 1 is utterly boring to me and I can't get past the second planet, the characters are just stereotypes for the most part barring a few stand outs like Jolee and HK-47. The Revan reveal was awesome, precisely once, after which it lost it's magic for me. Malak is a one-dimensional villain, the very essence of Chaotic Stupid Evil. Kreia? Most villains still don't hold a candle to her.
I concede that the style of writing/atmosphere may not be something you want to see in Star Wars, but I suspect that over the next four or five years you might be disappointed by some of the movies that are going to be released.
Thought I'd mention that customization doesn't make a game an RPG or not, it's the choice of action after the game starts that defines it as an RPG.
The narrower the focus on the protagonist, the greater development that can come from it. PS:T is an excellent example of this. KOTOR 1 is utterly boring to me and I can't get past the second planet, the characters are just stereotypes for the most part barring a few stand outs like Jolee and HK-47. The Revan reveal was awesome, precisely once, after which it lost it's magic for me. Malak is a one-dimensional villain, the very essence of Chaotic Stupid Evil. Kreia? Most villains still don't hold a candle to her.
I concede that the style of writing/atmosphere may not be something you want to see in Star Wars, but I suspect that over the next four or five years you might be disappointed by some of the movies that are going to be released.
I feel like future Star Wars disappointing writing was pretty much a given once Disney took it over.
Another thing I wish for is that some alternate voice lines be recorded if you can get NPC's to change alignment. For instance when Viconia changes alignment to neutral she should stop saying Shar and say Helm instead.
For instance when Viconia changes alignment to neutral she should stop saying Shar and say Helm instead.
That is so not how things work with deities and alignment
Alternate voices would be cool, but alignment changes have to remain plausible. Viconia would never suddenly switch over to Helm. Dear gods, no. But I like the concept in general.
For instance when Viconia changes alignment to neutral she should stop saying Shar and say Helm instead.
That is so not how things work with deities and alignment
Alternate voices would be cool, but alignment changes have to remain plausible. Viconia would never suddenly switch over to Helm. Dear gods, no. But I like the concept in general.
She got a holy symbol of Helm when she leveled to 25th.
She got a holy symbol of Helm when she leveled to 25th.
Also a gross lore violation. If she stays evil, she gets a symbol of Talos, too - which makes no sense. Unfortunately BG2 simplifies the deity system greatly and only has 3 deities available with their respective holy symbols (originally anyway). Why they did not just make a Symbol of Shar considering Viconia's Faith is somewhat important for her story, I can't say. But it's icky for sure.
Comments
But yeah, there is only so much you can do with town that is based on medieval central Europe.
I for one would welcome a setting that isn't so overdone.
Forgotten Realms has so much to offer, yet most we get to see is the Sword Coast.
2) BG1-quality NPC's with banter and romances. The most memorable NPC's I have ever encountered in a video game (incredible voice acting, some really lovable personalities, no shoehorned shit, no token characters and definitely no SJW and LGBQTXSKDLFSLDFKL bullshit).
3) Infinity engine. I know that this probably won't happen since creating sprites and handdrawn backgrounds is a pain in the ass (compared to creating 3D models), but the reason why I always favoured the BG series (beautiful 2D) over the NWN series (horrible looking 3D models and environemnts) was the art style.
The Forgotten Realms is huge, with so many interesting places to visit.
If we must have a city, how about Calimport?
If I were a writer I'd avoid the Calimport assignment and ask that it be assigned to someone who was raised in the middle east and has an appreciation for those myths. So many opportunities to stereotype . . .
Still, Calimport could great if it was well done -- as would a game where you jump portal to portal to interesting places in the FR. Still, I like the idea of waterdeep,
As long as a large city is done right, and not generically, I would love for it to be in the game.
Baldur's gate works so well because it has a lot of highly detailed landmarks that the player can visit. Such as Sundries and the Hall of Wonders.
BG2 also had this to a degree with each of its districts having a different flair.
More recent games (I am looking at you NWN) had just a generic insert-large-city here that you wouldn't be able to distinguish it from one large city to another if you didn't know its name.
So, as long as their is a proper lore and canon found in the said city, I'd say include it.
1. I want you (i.e. as a person as well as Beamdog collectively) to make design choices you genuinely believe in and want to make, not ones forced on you by the community, by political trends or by the Great Dread Lords of the In-House and Outlander Marketing Teams.
2. I'd like to see ways to end the game prematurely and escape the dreaded main quest other than simply dying. Having the option to say "Screw you, prophecies. Screw you stupid fetch-quests. I'm done." vastly improves immersion. A Planescape: Torment spoiler gives an excellent example of this.
Bonus points if the storytelling allows the player to ignore a time-sensitive quest for a while and then resume it later with some noticeable penalties (even if only expressed in dialogue, e.g. What the hell is wrong with you?! I'm your sister/boyfriend/indispensable-spell-component and it took you 60 years to rescue me?! I don't trust you anymore.) or even a totally different final outcome resulting from the passage of time.
3. I'd like to see no invincible celebrities and plot-critical NPCs. If celebrities like Drizzts, Volos and Elminsters are to be found in-game, make them as vulnerable as they should be. Allow them to be defeated realistically, without resorting to cheesy tactics. It's a world where most people can be revived with a bag of coin, anyway. Make other NPCs remark on the fact of a major personna being rumoured dead. Plot-critical NPCs should never be invincible. Getting this right is not as difficult as it seems. Give them keys. Give them chests. Give them little locked books with glitter on them and Dear, Deer DiARy..! scribbled on every page, so that the player can pretend they were sent by the dead questgiver, and maybe even bed their wife. You get the picture.
4. Number 4 out of 3, just because I can, is about getting yourselves a producer or director who will grab the actual cup of coffee with each and every one of you to find out what exactly you envision the game to be like, and will then tell you No-no, man, this is pure weird-cat-lady kind of shit, this ain't nothing like you told me you wanted it to be when necessary and will even help you figure out what it is that you envision if you never knew in the first place. I could help you with that, but I trust there are others you could hire, even if not as demanding as this here deity.
Good luck!
#2 totally happened in a tabletop game I was in. It wasn't 60 years, but the children we were supposed to rescue ended up being fully grown adults by the time we got around to saving them. (Also the cult that had captured them didn't scale to our level; we wiped out their entire operation in about two rounds of combat.)
2. Isometric for me, however again NWN2 had different camera options which could suit here.
3. No romances. They are at best clumsy and trite and at worst just plain cringeworthy. If the need to dedicate significant resource to add them in is present then have them branch off so that if you refuse the advances of an NPC that the PC/NPC character relationship development isn't curtailed. Banter/friendship development would be a much more worthy goal - it always bemuses me that people need to develop romances in their party, even if their human has an CHA of 3...
4. Bonus point. Make the world alive with stuff that doesn't directly involve the PC. SoD made good strides in bringing the world a bit more alive with random animals etc. Non recruitable NPCs should often have their own agenda/thing to do/McGuffin which may or may not intersect with the PC.
5E game
Real time with pause
Set in the FR somewhere that was not explored before in a game. Kara-Tur feels nice. Sigil as well is a place I've always wanted to explore.
1: great story and great companions
2: would like different origin stories like dragon age origins (but i can go without)
3: set in either dragonlance or ravenloft, (not enough games for those
2) I want a story more akin to KOTOR2's in scope, rather than the common Bioware-style narrative of saving the world. More personal, less epic.
3) LESS characters, LESS locations, LESS 'romances', MORE development focused around a smaller cast of area's and characters. No romances for the sake of having them ("okay now we have 1 gay, 1 bi, and 1 straight romance, 1 elf romance, 1 dwarf romance, 1 dragon romance, check!"), no huge area's for the sake of having huge area's, no 15-person roster's of party members for the sake of having them.
Just personal might work, but there is nothing wrong making it epic also. Everybody likes to feel it is doing something important, something that will leave its mark upon the world.
thanks to @Kamigoroshi
No reason why we can't have both, but the first one is more impactful and allows for a deeper roleplaying experience. We don't need another Elder Scrolls.
PS:T is the greatest game I have every played, but as an RPG it barely qualifies, with an essentially pre-generated character. Which is often the trouble with "personal" stories: the writer creates the protagonist, not the player.
IMO KotOR1 >> KotOR2. The Star Wars universe is completely the wrong franchise for that kind of story, even leaving aside the dull gameplay and companions.
1) Believeable characters (Partymembers, NPCs etc) with intresting and maybe even shapeable development
2) Decent romance options (I love pursuing them
3) An intresting plot with at least some variations (for replayability ^^)
4) Pause funktion or turn-based combat, I don't like hectic games ^^'
5) optional: having some elements of the game become part of the Forgotten Realms canon
And now a reply to @Fardragon
I personally say that PS:T is among the best (western) CRPGs. (BG2 will still always hold a special spot in my heart, making it my second favorite game
I fail to see why having a history disqualifies it as an RPG. Putting aside arguments about the actual definition of this genre, most games give your character a backstory. Sure, some keep it rather vague, but the ones that are often called as the "best" CRPGs have some sort of backstory.
Baldurs Gate gives you information about where you grew up, a (substitute) family, information about how you got that class and an entire prophecy about your live..
KotORs backstories are plot points. PS:T is rather vague, but still gives you info.
Dragon Age 1 gives you the choice of 6 backstories (which are explored)
Dragon Age 2 has a pretty obvious history
Dragon Age Inquisition keeps it vague.
Never played ME1, but the second entry made me think you also have a character that has a backstory.
Games with a blank slate protagonist are rare.. even most Hack'n'Slay games -which barely have a story-
give you some info on motivation or background.
I severly dislike the Elder Scroll games, so I can't say much about them.
If you say a RPG needs to give you the chance to *become* the character than I think giving you choices is more important than the backstory, since chosing where you are going is more important (and harder to ignore) than where you came from.
Baldur's Gate manages to tell a story that is both personal and Epic. The trick is to find the balance. NWNOC leaves too much to the player, DA2 leaves too little.
FYI Mass Effect gives you a fixed backstory (with a little customisation), but allows you to choose class, gender and appearance.
KOTOR 1 is utterly boring to me and I can't get past the second planet, the characters are just stereotypes for the most part barring a few stand outs like Jolee and HK-47. The Revan reveal was awesome, precisely once, after which it lost it's magic for me. Malak is a one-dimensional villain, the very essence of Chaotic Stupid Evil. Kreia? Most villains still don't hold a candle to her.
I concede that the style of writing/atmosphere may not be something you want to see in Star Wars, but I suspect that over the next four or five years you might be disappointed by some of the movies that are going to be released.
Thought I'd mention that customization doesn't make a game an RPG or not, it's the choice of action after the game starts that defines it as an RPG.
But the Star Wars universe is based around archetypes. KotOR1 recognised that, and incorporated it, KotOR2 chose to ignore it.
Alternate voices would be cool, but alignment changes have to remain plausible. Viconia would never suddenly switch over to Helm. Dear gods, no. But I like the concept in general.