Is it right to kill off Characters ...

Spudulation

Hi.

I love this place

I am currently on my "20th" first play-through of BGEE because I am always dissatisfied with my party at the start.

I want to keep it small so as to take advantage of the little experience you get at the start.

So...

After collecting Imoen, Khalid and Jaheira. I tried to reform the party and remove Khalid. The problem is - he always seems to asks Jaheira to go with him!?

So...

I went to the temple east of Beregost, and decided to let Khalid stretch his legs (heading Northeast). . . What happened next makes what happened to Ramsey Bolton the other day look like a petting zoo!

Jaheira just shouts at him saying how stupid he is.

But now, I wake in the dead of night, screamin his name, with cold sweats!

KHALIIIIIIID NOOOOOO!?

Am i going to miss out on anything due to his death? i.e. quest completion, exp, items, etc.

Mr2150

You shouldn't miss anything... and you will be spared Jaheira nagging him... I tend to have him explore upstairs in a house at Beregost, remove him, and then exit the house.

Spudulation

Mr2150 said:

You shouldn't... and you will be spared Jaheira nagging him... I tend to have him explore upstairs in a house at Beregost, remove him, and then exit the house.

Thanks, thats good to know

I would have liked to get rid of him in a polite way, but .... it was satisfying watching him explode (... I think more so for Jaheira)

R.I.P.
KHALID
Joined: 21st of Hammer year of the Morning Star
Exploded: 22nd of Hammer year of the Morning Star
He will never know
what he did wrong

Ravenslight

Adventuring is a dangerous profession. Sadly, my protagonist has also, on occasion, lost a party member due to circumstances very much like your own. One can only go on, perhaps dedicating future deeds in their name. The nightmares fade, eventually…

Actually, I usually just send one of the pair into a building, as Mr2150 mentioned. If you send them in alone, before reforming your party, they will stay there and still be available should you change your mind later and want to recruit them again.

Welcome to the forum!

rapsam2003

"Right" depends on how you're playing and what you did. Did you purposely send him off to die? From a RP perspective, that's pretty evil. From a metagaming perspective, whatever. Did he die in combat? Ok, well...that's sad; shed a tear.

Of course, canonically, Khalid is alive in Siege of Dragonspear and doesn't die until Irenicus tortures him to death.

magisensei

Well deliberately killing off members means it was 'premeditated murder" and that means you are evil better not let Jaheria find out that you planned to kill off her hubby because of some dark desire for Jaheria.

As you return to adventuring through the Sword Coast happy that you have gotten rid of Khalid the useless baggage that we was, you are unaware of events that are about to transpire to make your evil deed know to your party and to the world.

"@Spudulation you are here by under arrest by the order of the Flaming Fist for the murder of Khalid. Drop your weapons and come with us or else" (shakes the chains he is holding) - A small band of 12 Flaming Fist all armed to the teeth along with 2 mages and 1 cleric wait for your decision. The Captain of the band of Flaming Fist awaits your answer:

1) You drop all your weapons and surrender to the Flaming Fist (only to be dragged through the streets in chains half naked and gagged and then paraded in a cage for all to see as they drag you to Baldurs Gate to await trial and execution)
2) Attack
3) Flee (to another map as fast as you can) but obviously it won't help you
4) Attempt to bribe the Flaming Fist
5) Give a haughty laughter tinged with madness and tell them that you are a child of Bhaal and that mere human laws don't meaning anything to you
6) Feign innocent and try to charm your way out of this

Open spoiler to see what happens next:

Regardless of your choice (the moment you make one of these choices) the screen takes a cut scene and Jaheria screams wildly attacking you from behind piercing your body with her weapon. As you fall to the ground injured and dazed Jaheria looks down at you and proceeds to kick you repeatedly. You attempt to speak but blood fills your mouth. Your last sight is her angry mad filled gaze of Jaheria as raises her staff smashes into you over and over again. Blissful blackness finally takes you as you fall unconscious.

You awake blurry with aches all over your body. You try to move your arms and head only to realize you are totally restrained. You try to speak but nothing comes out your throat is parched and your throat aches as if you have not had a drink in days. Your eyes see through slits in the mask over your face and breathing is difficult. You shift your eyes and turn your head as much as possible to realize that you are in a dungeon all chained up and of course totally unarmed. You are truly captured it seems awaiting trail for your evil deed.

rapsam2003

magisensei said:

@Spudulation you are here by under arrest by the order of the Flaming Fist for the murder of Khalid. Drop your weapons and come with us or else" (shakes the chains he is holding) - A small band of 12 Flaming Fist all armed to the teeth along with 2 mages and 1 cleric wait for your decision. The Captain of the band of Flaming Fist awaits your answer:
[snip]

You have way too much time on your hands...

SmilingSword

Making Khalid go naked basilisk hunting is a time honored tradition.

Spudulation

SmilingSword said:

Making Khalid go naked basilisk hunting is a time honored tradition.

Haha!

Yes!! thats why this Forum is amazing!

Just Imagine the pose you could take before you get turned to stone!

Floppy Weiner on full display Hahah! *cough *splutter

sparkleav

Nice to see some much love for Khalid in this thread

OlvynChuru

Well of course it's evil to deliberately kill off characters, but it can be fun to do it anyway when we've played way too much of this game.

Spudulation

sparkleav said:

Nice to see some much love for Khalid in this thread

I had another dream about him last night ...

We were sat on the edge of tall rock, looking out at the setting sun on the horizon, late in the Sword Coast. Legs swinging vigorously,beaming smiles on both our faces and joy in our hearts! When Khalid Turns to me and ... DOESN'T STOP BLOODY NAGGING!! ARGHH!!

It Never ("Winter Nights") Ahem!* Ends!

Believe me ... the feelings I have for this Half Elf? (although could slightly be construed as latent homer-sexual tendency's) are far from Love ! I don't know how Jaheira puts up with it! He must be hung like an Ogre!

ancientclown

I follow the 'Art of the Warrior' in playthroughs.
"The 'Art of the Warrior' is not to kill, but to destroy the Forces of Evil."
I don't kill Ragefast, even though he kidnapped a Nymph for love(misguided fool)...i don't kill the Goblins that don't attack me when helping my wild mage friend find a mentor...but those that show no mercy, shall receive none.

FinnTheHuman

Is it right to kill characters? It's probably the most ethical thing to do with them. Would you leave them on their own, lonely, frightened, abandoned? Just imagine their cute little faces when you tell them you don't want them any more. How uncomfortable that conversation when they try to ask you why. Why don't you love them? Why are you leaving them? What did they do wrong? If you are a cruel heatless monster, then by all means let them live in torment. If your character is good, you must kill them. Its the only logical role play.

scriver

And here I thought the Art of the Warrior was simply the Art of Warr.

ancientclown

FinnTheHuman said:

Is it right to kill characters? It's probably the most ethical thing to do with them. Would you leave them on their own, lonely, frightened, abandoned? Just imagine their cute little faces when you tell them you don't want them any more. How uncomfortable that conversation when they try to ask you why. Why don't you love them? Why are you leaving them? What did they do wrong? If you are a cruel heatless monster, then by all means let them live in torment. If your character is good, you must kill them. Its the only logical role play.

Nah...I just look them in their cute little faces, cradle their little cheeks and kiss them on the forehead saying; "It is time for you to fly on your own now little bird, and i won't shoot you out of the air with an arrow...but someone might, so be careful."

scriver said:

And here I thought the Art of the Warrior was simply the Art of Warr.

Nah...in most cases, the enemy of my enemy hates me too and they both team against me. Has never served me well.
The Art of the Warrior is for the individual and will leave all my enemies at my feet in the end.

FinnTheHuman

ancientclown said:

Nah...I just look them in their cute little faces, cradle their little cheeks and kiss them on the forehead saying; "It is time for you to fly on your own now little bird, and i won't shoot you out of the air with an arrow...but someone might, so be careful."

Monster!

ilduderino

The problem with a good group is that to have a workable team you pretty much have to take Jahalid or Minaheir but I don't want neutrals (bye bye Jahalid, I kicked you on my first play through due to Jaheira's moaning) and if I am a mage I don't want another mage (au revoir Minaheir) so you have to basically use every other good npc you find. If I ever do play evil I will want Montaron but will want Edwin over Xzar. So I think on duplicate play throughs ditching one of the pair is fine if needed to make the party you really want. This was clearly seen as undesirable as the system was dropped in BG2 and you can get rid of who you like without it impacting anyone else.

chimeric

Well... is it right... that's a good question... for GOOD-aligned parties. Evil-aligned parties don't care, as you can hear in the NPC's comments:

Xzar at Montaron's death: "Montaron! I... never loved you."
Montaron at Xzar's death: "And the mad wizard falls! Spares me the trouble."

Gotta love those two.

So, if you are asking whether something is right, then you are role-playing, and if you are role-playing a good or neutral alignment, then no, it's not right to murder someone just to free up party space. So there's your answer. You are stuck with those couples. And a further reason why you should not break up those pairs is that it breaks immersion too. It is completely out-of-character to try to get rid of someone just because they are not quite creme de la creme at what they do or their personality could be more pleasant. So what? That's life for you. I remember my early times with Baldur's Gate, and it never occurred to me to try to manipulate or control everything this way. I just took whoever I liked more or less, whoever I could get, and played. And it was most enjoyable that way.

The point is not to be too clever.

Spudulation

Right sooo...

I believe I have found the best way to get rid of Khalid and Jaheira is.... to wait ... Keep them, until you find both rings of ... ZOMBIFICATION? (Meembeeer the name the name of this one?) and Both Rings of STUPIDITYNESS ("Disciple Ring" I believe this on is called) and march those two (Lvl 6 or so?) mother duckers straight back to the "Toooooooo, Friendly Arm Inn" amd Make that place a little less so...

• NOTE TO FOOT:-
  
• I don' t know? If? I came by double of each two rings by people joining my game? Or? If? the game has both double of each ring? But i am now under the predilection, it does!
  
  

P.S
The nightmares have now stopped.

[Insert Picture Here: Of Jaheira, kicking the living, (Can i Swear on here?), out of Khalid!]

former_customer

This question only becomes relevant if the characters are actually spoken to, right? 'Cause my half-orc, dagger-loving fighter/thief watched those two from a dark corner of the Friendly Arm for a bit before chuckling to himself and congratulating Gorion on his sense of humor.

Labyrinthodont

It's necessary sometimes in order to have the party you want. In my own current team, Khalid and Jaheira removed their armor to stretch and then tragically entered a house full of giant spiders. It feels silly to ignore them when Gorion specifically said to meet them, and sometimes I'm not sure if I want them early on, so I usually let them join at first. In the long term though, I usually lose them unless I'm romancing Jaheira in bg2, otherwise I'll get tired of them.

Dynaheir tragically didn't make it back from the gnoll stronghold. Dynaheir in particular has to die frequently, because I like Minsc and Imoen. Minsc won't leave Dynaheir. His mental state also makes Dynaheir's early death the most explainable in bg2 out of all the canon characters. When Minsc talks about Irenicus killing Dynaheir, I mostly shrug it off as the head injury and torture talking.

Imoen is much more important from a sentimental and narrative perspective, and can dual class to a mage, so unless I have literally no other arcane caster that I'm interested in (MC included) Dynaheir's spot is forfeit. Nobody needs a third mage.

Believe it or not, I actually like the canon party, but that's exactly why I kill them sometimes. I don't want to get tired of them during my non-canon play-throughs.

Riderat

If I am playing a "good" party and want Jaheira in the party, I always try to keep Khalid alive. But me playing a "good" party is a rare occasion and having Jaheira in it, is even rarer.

Long story short. I think that it is not right to kill him off like that if you are trying to be the champion of the light!

Jirayia2

If you played IWD then it's unacceptable to use NPC's, since they were made by someone else, I can trust my chars only. So yes, it is right.

Zaghoul

I usually go by CHARNAMES alignment as to what they do. I never liked leaving one of them locked in a house. Just did not seem right to the the way pairs are fixed to stay together. Now yes, of course sometimes one does tend to wander a little to far ahead in scouting or my druid does not approve of one attacking a cave bear or the like. Then ,well, I tend to sit back and watch Darwin's Law play itself out, heheh.

ThacoBell

As typically good aligned player, no, murdering your party members is not okay.

UnderstandMouseMagic

What I find strange about BG is that it is very unclear to me who are the good/evil NPC's from Charname's POV.
I think the most unrealistic thing is presuming charname can see allignment.

You meet X/M on the road, they give you potions, they agree to go with you. In the opposite direction to where they need to go.
They help save you from Tarnash at the FAI, how many runs have failed at that point?

Then you meet the "good" couple J/K.
You hear them complaining about waiting.
Yeah, they were so concerned about you they couldn't be arsed to make sure there wasn't an assassin waiting?
How difficult was it for them to step outside the front door?
Ask the guards to be on the lookout for you?
Even, here's a radical idea, travel along the road towards Candlekeep in case you had run into trouble?

So you join up, and then J/K start a fight with the two who probably did more to keep you alive at that point.

Now here, as Charname, I would be very unsure who had my wellbeing at heart.

So you head to Nashkel, and you inadvertantly talk to Minsc.
So there you are, just out of Candlekeep not knowing what is going on, it's not a big stretch to understand why you would refuse to help.
And he attacks.

On the other hand, the evil red wizard offers you a nasty job, yet when you refuse, he leaves you alone.

Why and how does charname come to the conclusion that the game assumes they will come to and consider the cannon party the "good guys"?

WarChiefZeke

It's only ever right to off Xan, because let's face it, it serves him right.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

scriver

@UnderstandMouseMagic - You seem to have missed the part where Montaron openly talks about murdering you and Xzar is a clearly mentally unstable lunatic with very poor nail hygiene :P

BillyYank

I just use one of the mods that allow splitting couples. Now Minsc in convalescing under Galena's care and my inquisitor is sharing a bedroll with Dynaheir.