I don't think spells are that easily interchangeable with respect to targeting. Some spells are just only suitable against certain classes either side to the effect of the spell of the susceptibility of the target to the secondary effect.
Furthermore, usage of damaging spells is often decided at different levels of remaining opponent health (if see opponent with abysmal health then...), so flame arrow and larlochs minor drain are in no way exchangeable unless you also swap the damage that they do (which you would do anyway but it is important not to forget).
And then we have not even begun to discuss combo spells (if protected, then dispel, then cast spell for which there was a protection).
So I think you actually *have* to write some AI intelligence if you make a spell with superfancy bonuses or effects.
So, the way SR changes IH into a party-wide spell is an object lesson in how *not* to deal with the AI. (And indeed I think recent builds of SR have changed that spell back to single-target.) Change the targeting, but the AI doesn't know you've changed the targeting, so you have messed up the AI. The lesson is fairly simple: think about how the AI will use a spell, and if the replacement spell is used differently then it's not a good fit.
This is clear to me, I chose it in my previous example for that very reason. According to the readme from the G3 site is still targeting as aoe, but this is not our problem, I agree on everything you told.
Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile, Agannazar's Scorcher, Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow... the manner in which the AI uses these spells is the same. They are cast from a ranged position, intended to do direct damage to a single target. You could jumble them all up and, setting aside the varying power levels, the AI would still use them intelligently. (As intelligently as a static AI script ever could, anyway.)
Even stuff like Larloch's Minor Drain and Ray of Enfeeblement and Blindness are probably interchangeable with the above spells. Whereas, if you put MM in the place of Web, that will cause problems because the AI expects the result to be an AoE disabler and will (might) act accordingly the next round.
Let me understand better. Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile and the other spells modded to be cantrips will be cast as normal by the AI, correct? The AI will use the cantrips without being aware that their effect has been nerfed, but if they are damaging spells there will be not much difference, as they cover anyway the same function of the originals and the nerfing is for everybody. But how will the AI be aware of the fact that now the cantrips need not to be memorized and can be cast at will? This is the point that is not clear to me, since I lack knowledge about how the AI scripts work, how the AI will be able to use the new feature of spells that are available at each moment without number of casting restriction. Will the AI see that they are available at each time or try to use them only if the mage is supposed to have them memorized? Will the AI try to use them in the situations where normal spells are not used (maybe because the memorized ones has been all used)?
For this discussion, let's look at Scorcher. This is a very unbalanced spell. The player can do crazy stuff with it, bouncing the projectile, running around the target to catch more enemies in the damaging effect while your own allies stay clear, etc. The AI can do none of that. If it tried, it would probably just hurt its own allies. The AI more or less just thinks, "I want to burn that player." I don't even think the damage type matters, because the player cannot have trolls fighting for you. This is a prime candidate for replacement by a "Greater Magic Missile" spell. It is used very simply, to hurt a single target at range, and it works against Stoneskin. Such a change would level the playing field between the player and the AI. If we add Scorcher back in after the fact as a player-only spell, the net result is basically neutral.
When I said the AI would use the changed/new spell, but there is a cost, that is what I meant. The cost is, the AI won't cast Scorcher at you anymore. It's a zero-sum game at each level so if we add something, we have to take something away. But as I say, the AI really can't use Scorcher effectively but it is very effective with MM...so IMHO this would ultimately be a good thing.
In this example if I understood you talk of creating a "Greater Magic Missile" spell, that will be seen and used by the AI instead of the original Scorcher, as it cover the normal function for what the AI uses it. And a new Scorcher spell is created, for the player only, as the AI don't have the ability to use it in the other possible ways and probably doesn't even see it. You have created a brand new party only spell and replaced the usual one with a completely different one that even if is different is functionally similar to the use that the AI make of the original, so nothing is really changed both for the AI and the player. Correct?
Agreed, I side tracked the discussion with the tangent of adding fancy effects so AI scripting is not that applicable (bit maybe of interest to other readers I suppose).
With respect to casting spells under certain conditions, one clear example is when to cast healing spells of different levels. And some spells have priority targeting (deafness on casters so replacing it with a spell that would not be good against casters would defeat the purpose). Combo with magic missile I am not aware of. Is that spell your only worry? I think swapping magic missile and scorcher would have not much effect on scs AI currently. I thought you were just giving that as example and were going to swap a lot more spells. Apologies if I misunderstood that.
OT:I've also seen those Let's Plays, and I like to use my thief against tactics mod mages to have them depleting all the memorized spells (the ones who don't have infinite casting using scripts or scrolls). Is quite funny (and challenging) for me to see the mage, with several levels more than my early game thief, waste all his spellbook because each time he start to cast the thief hide in shadows or is no more where the Web or other AoE hits or his summons are backstabbed. The same concept used in those let's play, a mage without spells is a dead one, but used with a little more elegance, not abusing potions an summons to suck the spells but use at the best that I can the "rogue magic tricks". Maybe not all the players share my tastes, but for me is an interesting revenge against the so powerful mages, I get more satisfaction destroying those powerful ones with a non magical class than destroying a thief or fighter with my powerful mage... When I finally see them attacking with their staff or dagger I feel an evil satisfaction feeling in my hand the weapon that will backstab them, and that is almost the only evil thing that I am able to do in the game, as I had never been able to sacrifice my apprentices for a staff or do other evil things.
@subtledoctor You should use ADD_SPELL_CFEFFECT for the Restore/Disable effects. As global effects/casting features, they will occur even if the spell is interrupted(Wild Surge/Casting Failure), and will bypass immunity to the spell(Larloch's).
Drowse's Visual Effect targets the caster(it should), but also allows a saving throw(it shouldn't). The graphic is played at the caster's location - it simulates them cracking a magical whip at the target.
NRD - given automatically to any kit with the Wildmage unusability flag, as are all spells of the Wildmage spellschool. Maybe let Wildmages keep it, but instead of known wizard spells, either a preset list of all cantrips w/Wildsurge, or have it cast a random cantrip w/out Wildsurge.
I'm not sure if such a drastic change won't have the wild mage fan crowd run after you with pitchforks. Would it be possible to keep nrd as a level one spell (not a cantrip) instead? So that it doesn't get refreshed after casting.
NRD would still exist at level 2, this would be in addition to that.
You can also make a code to remove nrd from the spell book, that way you keep it as level two and just remove the vanilla one. You know, an... If myself class wild mage and global is zero then remove nrd and set global to one.... Kind of thing.
Cantrip effects should overlap as little as possible that is true. However, slow is in vanilla only available from level 5 when spell level 3 kicks in (monks get immunity at that point too if I recall, an equaliser if you are the same level). I'm not sure the game was intended to have slow before that point.... most foes that cast slow or haste are in the later bg chapters. I have no alternate suggestion though.
Comments
Furthermore, usage of damaging spells is often decided at different levels of remaining opponent health (if see opponent with abysmal health then...), so flame arrow and larlochs minor drain are in no way exchangeable unless you also swap the damage that they do (which you would do anyway but it is important not to forget).
And then we have not even begun to discuss combo spells (if protected, then dispel, then cast spell for which there was a protection).
So I think you actually *have* to write some AI intelligence if you make a spell with superfancy bonuses or effects.
This is the point that is not clear to me, since I lack knowledge about how the AI scripts work, how the AI will be able to use the new feature of spells that are available at each moment without number of casting restriction. Will the AI see that they are available at each time or try to use them only if the mage is supposed to have them memorized? Will the AI try to use them in the situations where normal spells are not used (maybe because the memorized ones has been all used)? In this example if I understood you talk of creating a "Greater Magic Missile" spell, that will be seen and used by the AI instead of the original Scorcher, as it cover the normal function for what the AI uses it. And a new Scorcher spell is created, for the player only, as the AI don't have the ability to use it in the other possible ways and probably doesn't even see it. You have created a brand new party only spell and replaced the usual one with a completely different one that even if is different is functionally similar to the use that the AI make of the original, so nothing is really changed both for the AI and the player. Correct?
With respect to casting spells under certain conditions, one clear example is when to cast healing spells of different levels. And some spells have priority targeting (deafness on casters so replacing it with a spell that would not be good against casters would defeat the purpose).
Combo with magic missile I am not aware of. Is that spell your only worry? I think swapping magic missile and scorcher would have not much effect on scs AI currently. I thought you were just giving that as example and were going to swap a lot more spells. Apologies if I misunderstood that.
OT:I've also seen those Let's Plays, and I like to use my thief against tactics mod mages to have them depleting all the memorized spells (the ones who don't have infinite casting using scripts or scrolls).
Is quite funny (and challenging) for me to see the mage, with several levels more than my early game thief, waste all his spellbook because each time he start to cast the thief hide in shadows or is no more where the Web or other AoE hits or his summons are backstabbed. The same concept used in those let's play, a mage without spells is a dead one, but used with a little more elegance, not abusing potions an summons to suck the spells but use at the best that I can the "rogue magic tricks". Maybe not all the players share my tastes, but for me is an interesting revenge against the so powerful mages, I get more satisfaction destroying those powerful ones with a non magical class than destroying a thief or fighter with my powerful mage... When I finally see them attacking with their staff or dagger I feel an evil satisfaction feeling in my hand the weapon that will backstab them, and that is almost the only evil thing that I am able to do in the game, as I had never been able to sacrifice my apprentices for a staff or do other evil things.
You should use ADD_SPELL_CFEFFECT for the Restore/Disable effects. As global effects/casting features, they will occur even if the spell is interrupted(Wild Surge/Casting Failure), and will bypass immunity to the spell(Larloch's).
Drowse's Visual Effect targets the caster(it should), but also allows a saving throw(it shouldn't). The graphic is played at the caster's location - it simulates them cracking a magical whip at the target.
NRD - given automatically to any kit with the Wildmage unusability flag, as are all spells of the Wildmage spellschool. Maybe let Wildmages keep it, but instead of known wizard spells, either a preset list of all cantrips w/Wildsurge, or have it cast a random cantrip w/out Wildsurge.
You know, an... If myself class wild mage and global is zero then remove nrd and set global to one.... Kind of thing.
Cantrip effects should overlap as little as possible that is true. However, slow is in vanilla only available from level 5 when spell level 3 kicks in (monks get immunity at that point too if I recall, an equaliser if you are the same level). I'm not sure the game was intended to have slow before that point.... most foes that cast slow or haste are in the later bg chapters.
I have no alternate suggestion though.