@gorgonzola: It works with any mage, but Jan can get the most out of it thanks to his flashers. You need Polymorph Self, Minor Sequencer, and Shocking Grasp.
1. Put Shocking Grasp in a Minor Sequencer. 2. Cast Polymorph Self and switch to spider form. 3. Activate your sequencer. This will replace the spider's weapon with the Shocking Grasp weapon. 4. Get rid of the Shocking Grasp weapon by making one attack.
You now have no magical item in your mage's hands, but remain in spider form. This means you can attack with any weapon at the spider base 4 attacks per round.
This trick also works with other shapeshifting forms (the Mind Flayer also has high APR, plus 90% magic resistance), other sequencers and contingencies, and other spells that create magical weapons (like Cause Serious Wounds, Harm, Ghoul Touch, and Black Blade of Disaster). Scrolls can work in place of a sequencer, but are finite in number.
Jan already has Polymorph Self and Shocking Grasp in his spellbook; to get Minor Sequencer, you will have to go to the merchant in the Bridge District who stands by the Derelict House where you find Neb in the illithium questline. The merchant only appears around nighttime, so you may have to rest to get him to appear. He sells a couple copies of Minor Sequencer. You can also buy two copies from Lazarus Librarus in TOB, but otherwise the scrolls are rare.
If Jan equips Firetooth and his flashers while in spider form, he will be able to launch 4 flashers per round at about 10 THAC0. The flashers are party-friendly area-effect projectiles, which means you can shoot them at your own party members without any risk. It also means that you can land hits on low AC targets by attacking high AC critters next to them. Most importantly, it means you can bypass enemy spell protections and weapon immunities, as long as you target a critter that is not immune to +1 weapons.
Flashers stun the target for 2 rounds on a failed save vs. spell at -1, and bypass magic resistance. They also strike as level 0 spells. You can therefore stun-lock Kangaxx the Demi-Lich by attacking a nearby critter with flashers: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38135/killing-kangaxx-with-flasher-master-bruiser-mates#latest Cleric/Mages also benefit from the spider gnome trick, as it improves their biggest weakness in combat, which is their low attacks per round. A mid-level Cleric/Mage can add Draw Upon Holy Might to the Minor Sequencer and bump the spider form's base 16 Strength to 19. Aerie is quite effective in melee using the Flail of Ages in spider form.
The spider gnome trick was the basis for a no-reload run of BG2 and TOB I did a while back: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38312/the-party-of-spiders-no-reload-scs2-run#latest I believe the trick also works with earlier versions of EE (version 1.3, I'm sure) as well as vanilla BG2. Some light modding can allow it to work on more recent versions of EE; all they did was change the spell a little.
@semiticgod did they nerfed that trick in EE v2? How sad, I did not know it. I did not read your topic about the party of spyders, and I will read it with great pleasure, but I read the one about Kangaxx. So I did know how marvelous are the flashers, used on a weak critter, that you can summon yourself and turn hostile, like also every wise druid do with the insect spell, and about the using shocking grasp to dispel the shapeshifted weapon. They are wonderful and I tank you for discovering and sharing them with us. Myself discovered (but probably are things also used by other players, discovered because I did not read about them but found them in my experimentation) the use of polymorphed Aerie, even if I use it mainly with the troll form from the cloak, DW FoA in the off hand, to have regeneration, 5 APR and 1 attack per round with FoA. I wander if the last has also been nerfed, I must test about that.
About that merchant I know him, is an important part of my RP compatible easy money strategy, as I avoid to sell and steal multiple times the same item with a fence, but allow myself to do it a single time for every fence. I have also little problem getting almost any pre ToB scroll early, as I allow myself to reload and fight multiple times the battles with the cowed wizards, the only self given rule that I use is that I can fight the same battle multiple times, to get a good loot, until a party member is killed. If I win every time I take the best loot, but if I loose (even a single not permanently dead party member is regarded as loosing) I reload and pay the CW. In the present run I have in chap2 2 mordy scrolls, 1 trigger, 2 ADHW, 2 PI and other minor but quite rare scrolls like the minor sequencer, and still no one at a level high enough to cast them... I even refused as loot an arrow of detonation, that used by the FMT's simulacrum using assassination can clear large groups of enemies in almost all the late game battles.
I recently discovered that in EE (this is my first run with it) also the trick to steal from Tolgerias a certain ring has been nerfed, and I suppose that also the same trick with a certain demi lich has been nerfed. I really don't understand why the actual developers nerf such things, as they are completely optional, like using the shield of balduran, I regard them more as easter eggs than bugs, and even if I have usually 2 rings of the ram I almost never use them. I am glad that bugs, like the previous behavior of the bags with charged items, are fixed, as it could be used as an exploit but gave problems to who doesn't like to exploit the game problems with resting with charged items in a bag, but don't appreciate the nerfing when it don't give problems for the not exploiters.
So I don't know what to do, as I just discovered a good exploit, that afaik is not known or not so known in the net, and I want to share it with the boards, but I don't want it to be nerfed. For now I will send it to you in PM (as I am sure that the board administrators will respect our privacy), you deserve to know it, but I will not share it in a topic, unless the developers promise me that they will never nerf it (is a completely optional one, like the 2 or 3 rings of the ram one.
Finding/disabling traps and opening locks is a requirement for a playthrough. Imoen does this as well as any other thief out there, and on top of that gets to be a near single class mage (the thief xp adds up to be almost nothing).
I rate this above Aerie, because while it's great to have both divine and arcane magic, you can't cast two spells at once (aside from contingencies). I'd rather have one person casting arcane magic, and another casting divine magic, at the same time.
That said, for those who are really good with handling multiple spell casters, I can certainly see why Aerie could win out.
Assuming you play with a party, there is nothing more capable than a cleric/mage. Mages are great at protecting themselves, but a cleric/mage enhances everyone. The ability to sequence party buffs along with haste is an incredible boost to any team's effectiveness. Bless, Chant, Aid, Holy Might, Champion's Strength, Holy Smite, Skeletons at lvl3, and then throw haste on a greater selection of protection spells on the pile. Sequence Holy Smite [i]and[/i] skull trap, or Horrid Wilting, or ALL the spells. And if you're in a pinch you can spell trigger in a pair of pit fiends protected from evil, then bless them for giggles. Or haste... you know, whatever. You'll have every option available. Carpet bomb with the latest and greatest in magery, then wade into melee combat and hold the line with the best in fightery.
Pack your scrolls, grab your warhammer, and go thump some noggins.
The best mage across ALL series? Edwin. Because he's great in all games. The best mage in BGEE? Baeloth. Because Sorcerer and Magic Resistance. Best CASTER in all series? Aerie. Because supreme versatility.
Imoen has more story relevance, and Edwin has more raw power, but Aerie has crazy versatility and can do some really cool things once she reaches high levels.
I still find it weird that Xzar has more Wisdom than most of the divine casters in Baldur's Gate. Not because of the whole "Necromancers needed Wisdom" thing, but rather the whole "He's nuttier than a fruitcake" thing.
I still find it weird that Xzar has more Wisdom than most of the divine casters in Baldur's Gate. Not because of the whole "Necromancers needed Wisdom" thing, but rather the whole "He's nuttier than a fruitcake" thing.
Nor do the gods appear in warrior's armour clad To strike them down with sword and spear Those whom they would destroy They first make mad.
@dockaboomski How is baeloth continuity again? Last I checked he was an easter egg given due to a late release, not an actual character meant to be there, you know, unlike the EE characters.
@thedamages That is nice and all, but last time I checked, Neera was written into bg1, bg2, and ToB... so how does Baeloth possess more continuity than the "EE" character as @dockaboomski claims when the "EE' character actually was actually meant to be in the game and didn't start off as an easter egg as an apology for a late release.
I was going to let it be after acknowledge my miss interpretation but, Neera DOES have continuity over Bealoth seeing how he was again, a "Easter egg" and she wasn't, So really there isn't a choice here, arguing anything else would be arguing preference not status.
Comments
As I play also not EE can you please explain to me how it works? I would like to give it a try...
1. Put Shocking Grasp in a Minor Sequencer.
2. Cast Polymorph Self and switch to spider form.
3. Activate your sequencer. This will replace the spider's weapon with the Shocking Grasp weapon.
4. Get rid of the Shocking Grasp weapon by making one attack.
You now have no magical item in your mage's hands, but remain in spider form. This means you can attack with any weapon at the spider base 4 attacks per round.
This trick also works with other shapeshifting forms (the Mind Flayer also has high APR, plus 90% magic resistance), other sequencers and contingencies, and other spells that create magical weapons (like Cause Serious Wounds, Harm, Ghoul Touch, and Black Blade of Disaster). Scrolls can work in place of a sequencer, but are finite in number.
Jan already has Polymorph Self and Shocking Grasp in his spellbook; to get Minor Sequencer, you will have to go to the merchant in the Bridge District who stands by the Derelict House where you find Neb in the illithium questline. The merchant only appears around nighttime, so you may have to rest to get him to appear. He sells a couple copies of Minor Sequencer. You can also buy two copies from Lazarus Librarus in TOB, but otherwise the scrolls are rare.
If Jan equips Firetooth and his flashers while in spider form, he will be able to launch 4 flashers per round at about 10 THAC0. The flashers are party-friendly area-effect projectiles, which means you can shoot them at your own party members without any risk. It also means that you can land hits on low AC targets by attacking high AC critters next to them. Most importantly, it means you can bypass enemy spell protections and weapon immunities, as long as you target a critter that is not immune to +1 weapons.
Flashers stun the target for 2 rounds on a failed save vs. spell at -1, and bypass magic resistance. They also strike as level 0 spells. You can therefore stun-lock Kangaxx the Demi-Lich by attacking a nearby critter with flashers:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38135/killing-kangaxx-with-flasher-master-bruiser-mates#latest
Cleric/Mages also benefit from the spider gnome trick, as it improves their biggest weakness in combat, which is their low attacks per round. A mid-level Cleric/Mage can add Draw Upon Holy Might to the Minor Sequencer and bump the spider form's base 16 Strength to 19. Aerie is quite effective in melee using the Flail of Ages in spider form.
The spider gnome trick was the basis for a no-reload run of BG2 and TOB I did a while back:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38312/the-party-of-spiders-no-reload-scs2-run#latest
I believe the trick also works with earlier versions of EE (version 1.3, I'm sure) as well as vanilla BG2. Some light modding can allow it to work on more recent versions of EE; all they did was change the spell a little.
I did not read your topic about the party of spyders, and I will read it with great pleasure, but I read the one about Kangaxx. So I did know how marvelous are the flashers, used on a weak critter, that you can summon yourself and turn hostile, like also every wise druid do with the insect spell, and about the using shocking grasp to dispel the shapeshifted weapon. They are wonderful and I tank you for discovering and sharing them with us.
Myself discovered (but probably are things also used by other players, discovered because I did not read about them but found them in my experimentation) the use of polymorphed Aerie, even if I use it mainly with the troll form from the cloak, DW FoA in the off hand, to have regeneration, 5 APR and 1 attack per round with FoA. I wander if the last has also been nerfed, I must test about that.
About that merchant I know him, is an important part of my RP compatible easy money strategy, as I avoid to sell and steal multiple times the same item with a fence, but allow myself to do it a single time for every fence. I have also little problem getting almost any pre ToB scroll early, as I allow myself to reload and fight multiple times the battles with the cowed wizards, the only self given rule that I use is that I can fight the same battle multiple times, to get a good loot, until a party member is killed. If I win every time I take the best loot, but if I loose (even a single not permanently dead party member is regarded as loosing) I reload and pay the CW. In the present run I have in chap2 2 mordy scrolls, 1 trigger, 2 ADHW, 2 PI and other minor but quite rare scrolls like the minor sequencer, and still no one at a level high enough to cast them...
I even refused as loot an arrow of detonation, that used by the FMT's simulacrum using assassination can clear large groups of enemies in almost all the late game battles.
I recently discovered that in EE (this is my first run with it) also the trick to steal from Tolgerias a certain ring has been nerfed, and I suppose that also the same trick with a certain demi lich has been nerfed.
I really don't understand why the actual developers nerf such things, as they are completely optional, like using the shield of balduran, I regard them more as easter eggs than bugs, and even if I have usually 2 rings of the ram I almost never use them. I am glad that bugs, like the previous behavior of the bags with charged items, are fixed, as it could be used as an exploit but gave problems to who doesn't like to exploit the game problems with resting with charged items in a bag, but don't appreciate the nerfing when it don't give problems for the not exploiters.
So I don't know what to do, as I just discovered a good exploit, that afaik is not known or not so known in the net, and I want to share it with the boards, but I don't want it to be nerfed.
For now I will send it to you in PM (as I am sure that the board administrators will respect our privacy), you deserve to know it, but I will not share it in a topic, unless the developers promise me that they will never nerf it (is a completely optional one, like the 2 or 3 rings of the ram one.
Finding/disabling traps and opening locks is a requirement for a playthrough. Imoen does this as well as any other thief out there, and on top of that gets to be a near single class mage (the thief xp adds up to be almost nothing).
I rate this above Aerie, because while it's great to have both divine and arcane magic, you can't cast two spells at once (aside from contingencies). I'd rather have one person casting arcane magic, and another casting divine magic, at the same time.
That said, for those who are really good with handling multiple spell casters, I can certainly see why Aerie could win out.
Plus, I find him fun
Assuming you play with a party, there is nothing more capable than a cleric/mage. Mages are great at protecting themselves, but a cleric/mage enhances everyone. The ability to sequence party buffs along with haste is an incredible boost to any team's effectiveness. Bless, Chant, Aid, Holy Might, Champion's Strength, Holy Smite, Skeletons at lvl3, and then throw haste on a greater selection of protection spells on the pile. Sequence Holy Smite [i]and[/i] skull trap, or Horrid Wilting, or ALL the spells. And if you're in a pinch you can spell trigger in a pair of pit fiends protected from evil, then bless them for giggles. Or haste... you know, whatever. You'll have every option available. Carpet bomb with the latest and greatest in magery, then wade into melee combat and hold the line with the best in fightery.
Pack your scrolls, grab your warhammer, and go thump some noggins.
The best mage in BGEE? Baeloth. Because Sorcerer and Magic Resistance.
Best CASTER in all series? Aerie. Because supreme versatility.
To strike them down with sword and spear
Those whom they would destroy
They first make mad.
So saith the wise Bhartrihari.
Edwin second
@dockaboomski
How is baeloth continuity again? Last I checked he was an easter egg given due to a late release, not an actual character meant to be there, you know, unlike the EE characters.
That is nice and all, but last time I checked, Neera was written into bg1, bg2, and ToB... so how does Baeloth possess more continuity than the "EE" character as @dockaboomski claims when the "EE' character actually was actually meant to be in the game and didn't start off as an easter egg as an apology for a late release.
you did read the original post I replied too, right?
wait... nevermind I actually think I miss read @dockaboomski post... yea I did. No harm, no foul.