Forced party member
Sir_Dahaka
Member Posts: 23
Well i just created the forum account to say im totally dissapointed with the beginning of Siege of Dragonspear. Im forced to play with Safana in that starting dungeon ( even thought i know what happens afterwards). I hope in future patched we are able to change this, that character does not fit on the legal/good alignment of my party and i hate the idea to be forced to have a chaotic character among my legal party, this is a role-playing game, at the most before starting let us pick from a pool of pre-made characters, companions or let us make one ourselves.
Rant over. thanks! (im kicking her asap).
Rant over. thanks! (im kicking her asap).
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Sides, how come you aren't importing a character (with party) from BG1?
You can start SoD with either 1) a party you completed BGEE with, 2) or with a new character.
In the first case you most probably had a party thief (there're a lot of thieves among BG1 NPCs) or were a thief as the main character. So in many situations you won't need Safana. If your party thief for BG1 was Imoen, then yes, she can't stay in your party in the opening dungeon of SoD and explains why. Safana's role here is to substitute Imoen in such case, so that you have a thief for this dungeon. After the dungeon you will have a choice between Safana and Glint for a thief if your main character is not a thief.
In the second case you should take into account SoD comes with a new feature - "Create Party", so you can create not one, but several characters from the start. One of them can be a thief, which lets you to get anything you wish - your main character can be not a thief but in the same time you can have a fully developed thief at your side with the kit (or multiclass) you want.
As for Safana, she's neutral, and fits any party, good, neutral or evil.
I haven't seen this exact issue raised before but there have been others who've expressed a desire to swap out party members for other BG1 NPCs, usually because they don't like the class composition of their initial party. My initial party worked fine but I don't think it would be unreasonable to let Imoen "summon" BG1 NPCs if you speak to her about it. Throne of Bhaal already includes a similar functionality for people who don't like their initial party and perhaps something similar could be added to SoD, though you'd need a plausible in-game explanation for it. ("Ajantis? Oh yeah, I remember where we left him, let me pass along your request to one of our mages and we'll have him teleported here in no time!")
Yes he does
what happens between that fight and that dungeon tthat makes someone new join in? and worse what makes a lawful character go with a chaotic one? or a chaotic one go with a lawful? or a full neutral with either end of the spectrum? its not logical from an RP point of view.
Jaheira is neutral, btw, and forced as a pair with Khalid who is good aligned. Story companions may be offered forcefully in the same way BG2 starts with Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen again even if you may have ended BG1 with a completely different party. You are free to not let join such characters or remove them from your party.
*EDIT*
On the alignment issue, pretty sure there are not enough lawful good characters to make a full party in the first place. And if alignment is that big a deal, how did you have a full party to begin with? There is no lawful good thief. If you can't rp chaotic working together temporarily, then why can you rp neutral for a long term?
Most stories that feature parties of adventurers feature some conflict in morality within the group. In Star Wars a LG party recruits a CN rogue (with faithful LG sidekick) to take them to their destination. In The Hobbit the NG thief steels from his LN party.
Having said that, I have to say that I really don't like Safina, irrespective of her alignment.
If the OP doesn't like companions with desperate alignments being forced upon them, I need to warn them to avoid NWN2 at all costs!
As a side point, the alignments of your companions in SCL are kept hidden from the player. A good thing?
Safana is a very unlikeable character though, so it can be annoying to take her but it's just one dungeon.
Edit: I forgot about Skie, who is also Neutral. The greatest flaw of that game is that you can't murder Qara on the spot.
And read this if you think chaotic evil is only like Xzar: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil. Then, go read "Book of Vile Darkness", p. 5-19: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-BT_PSB49zNM2lmdVI3SjJsTXM/view?usp=sharing. As with BoED, also a 3.5E resource. However, it explains that evil isn't just being a psychotic killer who is solely interested in power for power's sake. Also, examine the concept of pragmatic villiany: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PragmaticVillainy.
I apologize for the rant, but the point is that D&D alignment are NOT meant to be Black and White. The Paladin doesn't need to kill everyone who is of "an evil race", and the "Good Party" doesn't need to be a bunch of judgmental jerks. D&D alignment is a guideline, not a prescription.
There are different types of views and you run the game so many times you can have different wishes for each play.
Like for me when first played my party in the base game goes: main character, imoen, montaron, xzar, jaheira and khalid (untill the last 4 fight) and thats when you dont know anything, then you move (on nice characters) and leave montaron and xzar and get minsc and dynaheir, you get the "good" party.
Then you start with different roles, like going solo, different random parties, go around doing bad deeds, aligning with Edwin.
So now this run i wanted to run lawful good or neutral good (but there are enogh lawful good to form a party) then again i had imoen in my party, there was a flaw there i get it.
Its difficult to point it out what i wanted to express, what makes Skie so friendly with the PC at the ducal palace and afterwards? In my game i never contacted her more than to see who she was and that was it (as she has NO involvement in the main story unless recruited), as far as i know you needed some other male character, a bard, to kidnap her. Now when it came to safana. What makes the pc pick her over any other character? why a thief? why she replaces imoen? and why not pick viconia, brawen or tiax to replace imoen? There are inconsistencies, i move past alignments (as it was pointed out to be stupid). Why does the band pick safana over anybody else? I had no contact with her prior to that dungeon and then when you start (with no choice) SoD you get banded togheter with no explanation, if at least there was some explanation, like a short cutscene where the dukes hire her as some sort of royal agent and since imoen is out of the picture they make her join you like Corwen (not sure if its her name) id be sattisfied.
On a side note: First time in my life im able to have a discussion on something like this with anybody, loving it! Thank you everyone for giving me and anybody who reads this post, your insight on the topic!
I was reading a series called the Dresden Files, and a Holy Knight teamed up with a Fallen Angel on a temporary basis. Why would the Holy Knight do this? Because it was the only way to save the soul of a friend in need. He did not abide the Fallen Angel's evil inclinations, and spoke out again them often enough. But the temporary alliance was necessary to promote good. If you have a problem with Safana on an alignment basis, try looking at it from this perspective.
"He may participate in an adventure in which he is working with non-evil neutrals only if it is limited to a single expedition, and only if it will further a lawful good cause."
So before 3rd edition, someone who truly lived lawful goodness wouldn't be allowed to adventure with a chaotic evil character under any circumstances, even the hypothetical "uniting to defeat a greater threat" scenario mentioned previously in this thread. In fact they couldn't even let a relatively harmless character like Safana into their party unless it were short-term AND advanced a good cause AND advanced a lawful cause. Fighting Asmodeus? Sorry, Safana, you can't join because he's lawful. Fighting Irenicus? Sorry, Safana, you can't join because Shadows of Amn has more than one chapter in it. It may be that the OP is coming from this point of view, so to him, it might matter a lot that Safana not be allowed into his party.
@rapsam2003 *I* didn't imply Thieves couldn't be in a party with a LG character in general, merely with LG characters like the OP outlined them.