No Weapons Run

gmazca

How viable do you all think a "no weapons" run would be? I'm thinking of starting a campaign from BG:EE to TOB without using weapons at all. Well, spells that create weapons would still be viable. I'm thinking of a party like this:

Skald
Priest of Helm
Fighter/Mage
Thief/Mage
Shaman

The arcane users will have access to Melf's Minute Meteors as well as the Enchanted Weapon spell (culminating in Black Blade of Disaster and Energy Blades). Priest of Helm obviously has the Seeking Sword. And the Shaman can just dance and use Flame Blade for trolls.

Has anyone tried a run like this? Is it possible? I'm thinking it will be a fun challenge, but it might get a bit hairy going into BG2. What do you all think?

JuliusBorisov

Sounds fun!

Especially with the update for the Enchanted Weapon spell (instead of creating a magical weapon that the caster can wield, it now alters the target's currently equipped weapon to increase its effective enchantment level to +3) and the power of spell weapons.

You can also use traps by your Thief/Mage and Skald (upon reaching HLAs).

SirBatince

Funny, I recently did this. I find it thematically cool to have mages and sorcerers unarmed. (makes the gauntlet of crushing even sweeter)

though it made me realize how buggy spell weapons get when many instances overwrite eachother. The duration end is *not* overwritten and will prematurely end following instances extremely fast.

gmazca

Interesting @JuliusBorisov. I didn't realize that the Enchanted Weapon spell had changed. I was hoping my mages wouldn't have to wield any weapons once they got that spell, then eventually Phantom Blade. Oh well, I guess I'll take @SirBatince 's advice and get the gauntlets of crushing to add to the Enchanted Weapon's effects...I'm right in assuming it would make your fists +3 if unarmed correct?

BillyYank

You're thinking of a weaponless party and you're not taking a monk?

sarevok57

plus the gauntlets of crushing were totally made for a monk

GreenWarlock

My thoughts on a weaponless run were monks, druids, and the bear necessities in BG2EE.

With Cernd, Rassad, and Wilson, BG2EE is will set up to support you. It is less clear what the route through BGEE should look like.

Also, coverage for thief skills suggest at least playing a thief who foregoes weapons - perhaps Imoen taking a liking to that wand of missiles at the start...

JuliusBorisov

gmazca said:

I'm right in assuming it would make your fists +3 if unarmed correct?

Yes.

abacus

I'd recommend trying the Spell Revisions mod for this... the weapon spells are much better.
Things like Flame Blade & Spiritual Hammer improve more with levels and have better durations.

[Deleted User]

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Mush_Mush

Interesting idea, I think the level of difficulty depends on what classes you're going to use. For example you could easily go through the game with a party like this:

Sorcerer / Monk / Shapeshifter / Mage/Thief / Cleric / Skald

I did a solo poverty run with a Dragon Disciple once using only the starting staff which wasn't as hard as I was expecting so I can't imagine it would be too tough. Sounds interesting though

gmazca

Interesting ideas. The Monk and Shapeshifter caught my eye previously, and now that I know Enchanted weapon aids unarmed combat, they seem like even more viable options than they already were. I think I'll have to throw the Monk in there for sure. What about a kit for the monk? I haven't played Monks much at all. Is the original version better?

And what about Shaman vs Shapeshifter? The Shaman has the advantages of summoning, but the Shapeshifter has greater melee capabilities because of the werewolf transformation. Really at a bind on this one lol.

Mush_Mush

You could always take both. But I personally prefer the Shapeshifter. Either will do the job though.

I've always been a little disappointed with shapechanging for druids, it always felt somewhat underpowered. It's a shame you can't pick a form on creation and have it improve as you level.

Papa_Lou

gmazca said:

Interesting ideas. The Monk and Shapeshifter caught my eye previously, and now that I know Enchanted weapon aids unarmed combat, they seem like even more viable options than they already were. I think I'll have to throw the Monk in there for sure. What about a kit for the monk? I haven't played Monks much at all. Is the original version better?

I'm only about an hour or two into BG2EE of a complete saga playthrough with a Sun Soul Monk, and I'm having a ton of fun. Really powerful class, and they get a lot of great offensive abilities as they gain levels. To my understanding, the Dark Moon is a lot more defensive with its abilities, and an unkitted Monk is probably somewhere in between, so I guess it just boils down to how you want to play your Monk!

Mush_Mush said:

I've always been a little disappointed with shapechanging for druids, it always felt somewhat underpowered. It's a shame you can't pick a form on creation and have it improve as you level.

*cough*someoneshouldmakethismod*cough*

Demivrgvs

subtledoctor said:

Also, as if the recent betas, SR will overwrite the new Enchanted Weapon spell with one that works the old way. (This will probably change in the future, if it hasn't already, so get it quick!)

Summoned weapons are generally better in SR. Flame Blade, Spiritual Hammer, and Magical Stone are awesome. (Shillelagh is still 'meh' though.)

Also, if you install IWDification (it goes after SR) then you'll get Decastave on the arcane side at low level. Very underpowered, but, it will let you bash something when you need to...

@subtledoctor The next build will have both versions of that spell, Conjuration (create any type of weapon & ammo) and Enchantment (enchant target weapon).

The problem with Shillelagh is that it's a 1st lvl spell, it cannot be dat awesome. With SR it creates a magical club which deals double damage, with enchantment lvl up to +3, and an entangling effect on hit. I don't know if it can be any better actually...

Flame Blade and Magical Stone are good yes, but I may actually buff them a little bit more imo (e.g. give the stone a slightly better enchantment at higher lvls?). Otoh, quite a few players think I made Spiritual Hammer a bit too good...

Papa_Lou said:

gmazca said:

Mush_Mush said:

I've always been a little disappointed with shapechanging for druids, it always felt somewhat underpowered. It's a shame you can't pick a form on creation and have it improve as you level.

*cough*someoneshouldmakethismod*cough*

*cough* KR *cough*

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

thelovebat

The first Baldur's Gate would be very difficult for quite a while, to the point even if you know what you're doing there isn't much to be done without a weapon to help you. I suppose a Fighter/Cleric with buffing spells could do okay-ish barehanded, or a Half Orc Fighter/Cleric with 19 Strength and the ability to summon a weapon or two. Even Monks in the first game are pretty crap for a while cus their fists don't do anything and they have no hit points and armor to work with, and you need magical weapons to deal with the stronger enemies which their fists don't get with the default BG1 level cap.

One thing that will be limited is your ranged combat in such a run, the amount of spells one has isn't infinite and if you didn't have extensive knowledge of when fights are going to happen you'd simply run out of spells and abilities to use. A Bard's effectiveness would be fairly limited too, since their Bard songs (especially the Skald's) wouldn't really help the party as much with a higher reliance on spells.

OlvynChuru

Fun fact: a level 40 kensai with 25 Strength will do 28-29 damage per hit unarmed.