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Should voluntarily childless couples be allowed to get married?

2

Comments

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,281
    dunbar said:

    I would add

    c) commitment.

    but maybe that's just my generation/upbringing.

    Yeah. If you are willing to make a (presumably) lifelong commitment to another person then that's marriage.

    Two halfs become one entity - a married couple - that becomes more than two individuals. It's two people making a joint venture of life.

    mashedtaters
  • ArdanisArdanis Member, Developer Posts: 1,215
    edited November 2016
    Shandyr said:

    New point for discussion:

    If religious belief and having children are not mandatory for marriage, then what is?
    What defines marriage?

    This actually reminded me of employment. You can either be formally employed, along with benefits and obligations, or you can accept the risks and go with freelance/contract work, relying only on yourself to resolve any hardships. Personally, I prefer the latter, as I believe in personal responsibility that doesn't need to be additionally enforced and watched over by governmental institutions. Though, understandably, it's not for everyone.

    In case of marriage, especially when children are involved, I think it does have to remain mandatory, because unlike their parents, children are dependable on others to grow up properly. Although, it doesn't change the fact that marriage is a prerequisite for children, not the other way around.

    PS Not voting because these polls seem either nonsensical and against common sense, or trying to manipulate the public into something.

    mashedtaters
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Shandyr said:

    New point for discussion:

    If religious belief and having children are not mandatory for marriage, then what is?
    What defines marriage?

    Usually? Outside of a forced or arranged marriage? I'd say consent. :P

    Even love isn't a prerequisite. The only real requirement is what the law covers. Whether one believes that the law should, or should not, govern that is probably the next question.

    What defines marriage... there is no one specific thing. So, indeed, whatever the participants believe.

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    @Ardanis

    Would you elaborate why the polls seem manipulative to you?
    In what way does the manipulation take place?

    Is the poll manipulative in the way that it can make people think something that is not true or that they rather should not think?

    I would appreciate feedback on this for future polls (unrelated to these polls).

  • ArdanisArdanis Member, Developer Posts: 1,215
    Well, the polls' results so far have been too predictable, so it's hard to not assume them as experiment, even if you say it's not :)

    mashedtaters
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    Troodon80 said:

    Usually? Outside of a forced or arranged marriage? I'd say consent. :pensive:

    Forced marriage and arranged marriage are very different. In an arranged marriage there is consent.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    Shandyr said:

    @Ardanis

    Would you elaborate why the polls seem manipulative to you?
    In what way does the manipulation take place?

    Is the poll manipulative in the way that it can make people think something that is not true or that they rather should not think?

    I would appreciate feedback on this for future polls (unrelated to these polls).

    Given that there is no useful information to be gathered, since the outcome is obvious, gathering information cannot be the purpose. Ergo there must be some other purpose. The only other purpose that polls are known to be used for is manipulation. Therefore manipulation must be the purpose.

    That doesn't tell you what the intent of the manipulation is, only that it exists.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,281
    why is it considered trickery or manipulation if there's a clear answer? Not every choice at the polls is as equal as the other. Don't overthink it lol.

    semiticgodmashedtaters
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    edited November 2016

    why is it considered trickery or manipulation if there's a clear answer? Not every choice at the polls is as equal as the other. Don't overthink it lol.

    I think most of us are used to polls and surveys being used by advertisers, politicians and religious groups to try and influence us, and have become wary.

    And just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

    smeagolheartmashedtaters
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,281
    haha true.

    But yeah it's funny that there's almost never a consensus on things. "Should toddlers be given guns?" would probably get some yes votes. I think some people just like to be contrary, maybe people overthink things, or maybe they really believe it, it's tough to tell. But yeah you never see unanimous agreement.

    mashedtaters
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Fardragon said:

    Forced marriage and arranged marriage are very different. In an arranged marriage there is consent.

    I know they are different. That doesn't necessarily mean the two are particularly happy about giving consent, it usually means they're going along with it because they feel they have little other choice or they feel it would be for the "greater good." In some cases consent is given by the parents before the children are even born, others while they are children, the two are pushed together and groomed for the arrangement. In some cases they do genuinely love each other, in other cases they grow to resent each other and their parents since their freedom to choose for themselves has been removed.

    ThacoBellsemiticgod
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    edited November 2016
    Living in multicultural London, I have taught quite a few children who have gone on to have arranged marriages, and in a great many cases the participants are entierly happy with the arrangements. Romantic love is a fleeting bust of hormones, on it's own it cannot sustain a relationship for the long term.

    semiticgod
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,281
    Fardragon said:

    Living in multicultural London, I have taught quite a few children who have gone on to have arranged marriages, and in a great many cases the participants are entierly happy with the arrangements. Romantic love is a fleeting bust of hormones, on it's own it cannot sustain a relationship for the long term.

    what do you feel is more conducive to long term success in relationships than romantic love that works in arranged marriages?

  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    edited November 2016
    Shandyr said:

    If religious belief and having children are not mandatory for marriage, then what is?
    What defines marriage?

    Mostly it's a kind of relational ISO certification that doesn't really have any inherent value. From a purely concrete and legal standpoint, it mainly affects how you calculate your tax returns. For the rest, couples live however they want so the concept is moot.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,613
    Fardragon said:

    Living in multicultural London, I have taught quite a few children who have gone on to have arranged marriages, and in a great many cases the participants are entierly happy with the arrangements. Romantic love is a fleeting bust of hormones, on it's own it cannot sustain a relationship for the long term.

    Someone is jaded.

    smeagolheartMathsorcererRelSundan
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384

    Fardragon said:

    Living in multicultural London, I have taught quite a few children who have gone on to have arranged marriages, and in a great many cases the participants are entierly happy with the arrangements. Romantic love is a fleeting bust of hormones, on it's own it cannot sustain a relationship for the long term.

    what do you feel is more conducive to long term success in relationships than romantic love that works in arranged marriages?
    Familial love. It grows with time in successful relationships, irrespective of if the relationship was initially based on romantic/sexual attraction or an arrangement.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 5,943
    Fardragon said:

    Let me skip the BS:

    Should two consenting, legally accountable adults be allowed to Marry?

    Yes

    Or any three or four or five. And whether or not they are human or not is irrelevant.

    Anyone should be allowed to go through whatever farcical religious ceremony they like, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise should be strung up by bits that hurt.

    As for childlessness, it should be encouraged. This planet has far to many humans.
    @Fardragon No, marriage is a contract between two parties. However I do not limit the amount of such contracts one person may have. They have to be human to be legally accountable by any sense.

    Furthermore, marriage is not only religious but a legal contract.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    edited November 2016
    Polygamy is legal in quite a few countries, including India. I believe the Quaran teaches that four is the optimal number of wives. In the USA Mormons practice polygamy even though it's not technically legal. But we have already established that most of us believe the beliefs of the individuals concerned supersede meddling by the State.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    The point is marriage can involve any number of people.

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Of course.

    Marriage is socially sanctioned for tax cuts and pension priviledges - and in Finland it also includes a duty to provide, at the very least! This means: when you marry someone, it is a responsibility, besides all those breasks from society: if your spouse falls on hard times, you must subsidize him or her before social services.

    Hope of course there is such a societal equality on day as to render marriage a romantic obsolence.

    CrevsDaak
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 5,943
    @Fardragon I never said otherwise. However, it is still a two party contract. If you have 1000 wives you have 1000 contracts, that is one wife-husband contract with each. It's not a 1000 way contract like you suggested.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384

    @Fardragon I never said otherwise. However, it is still a two party contract. If you have 1000 wives you have 1000 contracts, that is one wife-husband contract with each. It's not a 1000 way contract like you suggested.

    Simply not true. In Brazil, for example, a contract involving three female partners has been declared legal.

  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 916
    This is starting to sound like the America's 1800.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 5,943
    edited November 2016
    @Fardragon I mean, of course you can claim anything but without sources it's just noise.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    edited November 2016
    RelSundan said:

    This is starting to sound like the America's 1800.

    Quite. The definition of marriage varies widely with both time and geography. That's why the only valid definition is what the people involved decide.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 5,943
    @Fardragon I don't speak Portuguese unfortunately, so that changes nothing. Meanwhile on Google

    marriage
    ˈmarɪdʒ/
    noun
    1.
    the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman (or, in some jurisdictions, two people of the same sex) as partners in a relationship

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,384
    edited November 2016

    @Fardragon I don't speak Portuguese unfortunately, so that changes nothing. Meanwhile on Google

    marriage
    ˈmarɪdʒ/
    noun
    1.
    the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman (or, in some jurisdictions, two people of the same sex) as partners in a relationship

    Google, You mean the North American company?

    Oh, I don't speak Portuguese either, but your North American friends at Google can help you out there. So even ignorance is no excuse.

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