Start of the challenge was short work for Kayla. Drizzt Chain Mail found its user finally, is Bard the only class which it's the best armor? After doing Marl and the Bowl guests hit level 3. Sliced Algernon and Dushai open, after which I remorsed it with 2050 gold to 12 reputation in a temple. After doing Samuel guest hit level 4 and got invisibility and * in Longbow. Picked up Gem Bag, Scroll Case and Potion Case. Kited Shoal for level 5, picked up Greenstone Amulet, 15 Stone to Flesh scrolls, Protection from Petrification and applied them in the Mutamin Garden getting to level 9, picking up * in Flail.
Fed Mulahey to the Kobbos, aren't they tired of him already? Picked up Hentold's invisibility potion and WoMS, which I introduced to Bassilus. After doing the few remaining reputation guests I hit 20/20 economy wise and have already 15k gold, even without selling any of the high value jewelry/potions. Next on the plate should be the tomes, and then purification run.
I'm loving Blade so far, Defensive or Offensive stance is great when accompanied with WoMS.
Drizzt Chain Mail found its user finally, is Bard the only class which it's the best armor?
Personally I wouldn't use it with a bard as it disables spell casting, but if you're relying heavily on item use and special abilities that would make sense. I'd be more likely to make it a standard choice with a fighter/thief as you can stealth in it.
@Grond0: Good point about the Potion of Magic Blocking. I think in one of my past installs, it blocked level 1-9 spells in BG2, but that's not how it works in my v2.5 install, and it certainly wouldn't work that way in SoD.
Mordra pushed hard after preparing the xp loop and not running into any archer ambush. I decided to take the path of pain not dual classing her in BG1 but going for at least level 9 in SoD. I never did this before so this should get at least interesting. The damn 10-magic-item rule strikes even a Kensai really quickly when looting stuff so its a lot of running-and-selling at the moment.
Reputation up to 20 was no big deal after getting Dushais ring of free action even though she had to run from several ambushes. Luck was on her side as the enemies could not shoot her so she could save the five invisibility potions grabbed so far. Greywolf however was superfast this time and immediately critted for 68 damage after the talking - something that would have killed her at lower level.
Dagger throwing is so much fun as it puts down enemies really quickly - combined with charming this is a deadly combo so far. With oil of speed double APR this should rock the house even more later on.
However: Next targets are the Sandthief Ring, Displacer Cloak for Archers and the always useful Greenstone Amulet and then following the main quest again. The 10-magic-item-rule will make things tricky for sure - damn you @Arctodus!
P.S. Running around without any armor, shield and helm makes me feel so weak and vulnerable that the world finally feels dangerous again!
EDIT: That was closer than intended. After charming and feeding Mulahey Mordra rushed out of the mines trying to save an invisibility charge from the ring but the kobolds rolled high numbers and took her down to 25 HP very quickly. She gulped two potions of extra healing before reaching the slimes who hit for another 40 damage forcing the third and last healing potion before escaping. On the good side Mordra saved one precious charge and also got another free item-slot. Who needs healing? No one!
Hey, just one thing @Harpagornis. You can carry more than 10 magic items, you just can't use more than 10 magic items. Carry as much magical swords you want, just don't use them !!
Personally I wouldn't use it with a bard as it disables spell casting, but if you're relying heavily on item use and special abilities that would make sense. I'd be more likely to make it a standard choice with a fighter/thief as you can stealth in it.
Yeah because it's enchanted 2 hour Spirit Armor is much better choice, as I can use Protection Ring with it to better AC and massive +5 bonus to saves.
Got the tomes, bought Claw of Kazgaroth as Con penalty doesn't affect me. Purification run, Tarnesh WoMS'd, Nimbul WoMS, guards, Rasaad, Kayla gangbang, got the 22 hp familiar finally. Neira WoMS'd, Karlat WoMS'd, Tranzig WoMS'd me blocking the doorway and using bow with Offensive Stance.
Bandit Camp, the usual, charm Taurgoz, lead him deep in the woods, loot the tent, charm Venkt and Hakt for the scroll and bow. Cloakwood next.
What? WHAAAT? I can carry more than 10 magic items @Arctodus? But, but... holy cow... i am only not allowed to USE more than 10? Thats making the Noble challenge A LOT easier!! Are you sure?
What if i switch equipped weapons or rings with the stuff i only CARRY? Is this okay? Cause i am still USING the same number of magic items even though the pool of options is so much bigger then... cant be right. No?
Nah, the 10 magic items rule is only for stuff that you will use. You own 10 magic items, the rest you can carry but not use. I remember it being written in the paladin's handbook : you can carry stuff that is not yours (to give it back to his owner, for instance) but you can't use it in any way, unless you forfeit the use of another item (if your already at the maximum).
Does this mean if i uneqip any item - like swichting from Algernons Cloak to Displacer Cloak - then i lost ownership of Algernons Cloak @Arctodus? Can you give a link to the detailed paladin rules? Or write them down? Maybe that would help to clarify things a bit more. Looks like i have played the Noble Challenge completly wrong so far...
Look at it as ownership. You can have four magical rings and switch them around as much as you want, but if you find another magical ring on the ground, you can put it in your bag to sell it but you can't own it unless you decide to get rid of one of your four rings you own. And, once you decide to forfeit ownership on an item, you can't use it ever again.
To original version was that in pnp Paladins are restricted to own only 10 magical items : - 4 weapons (a stack of magical arrows count as one magical items); - 1 suit of armor; - 1 shield; - 4 misc items, like rings, belts, potions, etc... (a stack of potions also count as 1 magical item).
What about classes that cannot use armor and/or a shield? Maybe they should be allowed to use 4 + 1/ 2 misc items.
However: Will have to update the rule settings later on to make things clearer!
Arc didn't survive her trip to the Bandit Camp. I tried relying on her missile defenses to get out of Tazok's Tent, but she had already been damaged by the lightning trap and was hit 3 times by arrows to finish her off.
Kayla skipped Cloakwood, apart from the Cloak with Taslois, I don't know why I bother with it, because I'll never use it anyway. Old habits I guess. Charmed Kysus, fed to guards, charmed Rezdan, fed to guards, charmed Genthorn and made him battle with Drasus, Drasus got to half health and was then easy pray for my WoMS. Charmed Hareishan for his Haste scroll, but just when I was casting invisibility, a poison arrow got me, ran away and tried to cast another, and poison interrupted me again, and the Ghast was closing in. Lucky thing that I bothered with the Hentold's single invisibility potion which saved me from further trouble, getting careless there.
As usual Davaeorns guard charmed, he then lured the Battle Horrors to the killing zone. Guard then smacked Davaeorn, and with the first hit he broke his damn sword, how the hell do you brake a sword on a Mirror Image? Must be some shitty iron. Anyway it's better this way because I got the xp, and got closer to the last level. Looted the place and on to Baldur's Gate we go.
Finally found the perfect tactic for Iron Throne. You can use the same method as with Drasus and co. Zhalimar is the one who activates, so you can charm everyone else without risk, and Shennara will kill him for you without agroing anyone else. They're pretty easy to charm apart from Zhalimar who has 25% chance I think, so it will involve some traveling to the inn and back. You want to leave Gardush second last, because he's the only one fighting back and because once his berserk state ends, it breaks the charm making him enemy.
I was only going to charm Naaman for his PfU, but because nobody else agroed I applied the same method to Diyab, then Alai, then Aasim, then Emissary Tar, and then on Gardush. Garsdush killed Shennara, and then I made him attack Zhalimar, but after the Berserk ended they stopped my plans. Rested and then fed Thaldorn to them. Then I charmed Zhalimar, who killed both the second Shennara and Gardush. I made it so that Zhalimar was near death, so he was easily dispatched with minor effort.
Could anyone point me to the link what to do with the SCS mind flayers I'd very appreciated, really annoyed by these mobs, hoping to learn some experts way to deal with them . Thanks! Edit: I am playing with party so I'm not sure it's the right place for the question but my weak members were constantly targeted by the teleporting illithids...
@islandking Buff AC vs crushing (Blunt Belt, Potion of Absorbtion etc.), intelligence +40 (Mind Focusing, Intelligence potions), more the better, and then some protection against their spells, I use Sim PfM.
Isnt there away to mod the scripts so that any vision on the character would start the talking?
However: I reworked the rules of the Noble Challenge to make things clearer...
6. Living beyond the mundane life your character is restricted to own only 10 magic items.
You can own: - 4 weapons (a stack of magical arrows count as one magical items) - 1 suit of armor (body armor + helm) - 1 shield - 4 misc items, like rings, belts, potions, etc... (a stack of potions also count as 1 magical item).
How do i lose ownership of an item? As a Noble Adventurer you cant have a stash. So whenever you drop an item or sell it you have forfeit ownership and can never use it again. You also have to discard ownership if you exceed the number of magic items.
For instance: You already own four weapons but have found a powerful Longword +3 that you want to equip. To do so you have to get rid of one weapon before you can use the new one. Pretty simple no?
However: You can carry as much magic items as you want in your inventory but you can claim ownership only on 10. See above!
Remember: If you character cannot use a suit of armor and/or a shield then you can add them to the misc items until you reach 10 magic items again.
Dont forget that non-magical items do not count so you can use them without any restricions!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as you got one remaining slot for potions you can still buff up like crazy if you only put one potion into the quickslot. Claiming only the ownership of this one potion while the rest of the stack remains "carry stuff" might be a bit over the top but at the end its not against the rules - isnt it? What do you say about this @Arctodus?
Technically your right. If you haven't use potion of Power, Haste, mind focusing and Violet potion, you can use them all in one fight. However, you won't be able to use them ever again if you forfeit the ownership. 1 potion = all potions. Thus, the stack rule. So, you will be able to boost like crazy through potions, but only once !
Candlekeep visit was quick and painless, only bothered charming Kestor, sneaked past the Phase Spiders. Hasted Larze and WoMS pwned Slythe in few seconds, didn't bother with Krystin. Palace Ambush, charmed the assassin, then the mage, made Liia invisible, WoMS and Haste. WoMS targeted the Shaman where as I dispelled everybody, only Belt died in the first wave. Assassin woke up between 5 guards which I hasted, one died because I was skimping on dispel arrows. Mage and Sarevok was eventually dealt with WoMS and guards.
I'm level 10 with 4th level spells, 102 hp and -20 -modifiers AC with Spirit Armor and Defensive Spin. And I'm liking my character screen when the two pictures of Kayla match.
Only couple mundane things to do before Sarevok, oh yeah and Love.
Hhmmmm... this means... if i have used one oil of speed the rest will automatically get owned... got it @Arctodus. But this also means that you will block your 4 misc items sooner or later with potions or scrolls so i wont be able to use any ring, girdle, boots, amulet etc.... if i dont drop the potions or scrolls forever... thats sounds crazy when thinking about it for the first time...
So if i for instance use a PfM or PfU scroll in SoD these two alone will block two misc slots - forever. Sure i can drop them but - holy cow - some parts of the game will get insanely hard. Melissan without PfM on Sendai and Abazigal could be a nightmare...
Maybe we should use the rule that ownership gets at least resetted when completing one part - after beating BG1, SoD and SoA?
P.S. At the end this looks like its favouring spellcasters again as they are not so heavily depended on items... dont like that!
EDIT: We could also exclude potions and scrolls from the list to give a little bit more freedom but - on the other hand - the rules will get more and more complicated and i miss the intuitive touch of the challenge...
For the moment i think that the Noble Challenge needs some way of recalibrating. In its actual state it feels not intuitive anymore. If you like to formulate an easy-rule-setting adapted for Baldurs Gate feel free to do so @Arctodus.
But i got another idea for now! As more or less all of us are talking about too powerful items i opened up a BLACK LIST in the OP for all active players here as well the Heroes from the Hall of Fame! Its up to you @histamiini to name one item that you want to ban for all of us. And not to forget the very first no-reload-lord-of-murder @semiticgod. @Grond0 gets another ticket cause he is for sure THE lord of murder - too bad that in the end he´s killing mostly himself.
Okay, i will make a start and banish the following item:
STAFF OF THE MAGI
However: Is this idea okay for the rest or is it just another "mad" idea by myself?
I'm not sure I would want to ban any items from everyone. While it's true that some items can unbalance the game, they can also be fun to use . There's also the potential problem of railroading by reducing the ability of different characters to complete the game. For instance if you ban Vhailor's Helm that would have a huge impact on the ability of fighter types to succeed in BG2 - while I thought you were keen to try and open up the challenge to as wide a range of classes as possible.
You are right @Grond0 that some bans could be very painful for specific classes. But maybe we can find a "mininum consens" of some items or maybe even abilities that make the challenge a bit "too trivial" at some point. In my view Mages are a "major concern" but as a non-mage player i am not sure which items or abilities we should banish to make things more challenging without crippling them too much...
Staff of the Magi seems to be a good starting point. What else @histamiini or @semiticgod?
EDIT: What about these ones... - Simulacrum (incl. Vhailor Helm) is not allowed to use any quickslot items - No XP loop farming like Basilisks or Gauths
Staff of Magi would be okey, but Sim item ban would cripple fighters more than mages I think, because they would've hard time against Maze and Imprisonment etc., where's mages can just spam Spell Immunity. WoMS ban would make before SoD harder for mages, in SoD there's nothing mage specific I don't think, I don't want to ban Martyr's because it's the only way for some classes to advance Bel. So Staff of Magi and WoMS would take from mages some umph away.
After doing some item fetching and beating Love with the usual tactic, Kayla is currently parked before Sarevok, but he'll have to wait for tomorrow.
Personally I think the Blade and Star challenge was the best challenge to date, as it allowed you to play basically the level you were comfortable with, and with any class without restricting anything particular. And with simple rules, the Noble challenge for me is just too complex to start.
Comments
Fed Mulahey to the Kobbos, aren't they tired of him already? Picked up Hentold's invisibility potion and WoMS, which I introduced to Bassilus. After doing the few remaining reputation guests I hit 20/20 economy wise and have already 15k gold, even without selling any of the high value jewelry/potions. Next on the plate should be the tomes, and then purification run.
I'm loving Blade so far, Defensive or Offensive stance is great when accompanied with WoMS.
Reputation up to 20 was no big deal after getting Dushais ring of free action even though she had to run from several ambushes. Luck was on her side as the enemies could not shoot her so she could save the five invisibility potions grabbed so far. Greywolf however was superfast this time and immediately critted for 68 damage after the talking - something that would have killed her at lower level.
Dagger throwing is so much fun as it puts down enemies really quickly - combined with charming this is a deadly combo so far. With oil of speed double APR this should rock the house even more later on.
However: Next targets are the Sandthief Ring, Displacer Cloak for Archers and the always useful Greenstone Amulet and then following the main quest again. The 10-magic-item-rule will make things tricky for sure - damn you @Arctodus!
P.S. Running around without any armor, shield and helm makes me feel
so weak and vulnerable that the world finally feels dangerous again!
EDIT: That was closer than intended. After charming and feeding Mulahey Mordra rushed out of the mines trying to save an invisibility charge from the ring but the kobolds rolled high numbers and took her down to 25 HP very quickly. She gulped two potions of extra healing before reaching the slimes who hit for another 40 damage forcing the third and last healing potion before escaping. On the good side Mordra saved one precious charge and also got another free item-slot. Who needs healing? No one!
Got the tomes, bought Claw of Kazgaroth as Con penalty doesn't affect me. Purification run, Tarnesh WoMS'd, Nimbul WoMS, guards, Rasaad, Kayla gangbang, got the 22 hp familiar finally. Neira WoMS'd, Karlat WoMS'd, Tranzig WoMS'd me blocking the doorway and using bow with Offensive Stance.
Bandit Camp, the usual, charm Taurgoz, lead him deep in the woods, loot the tent, charm Venkt and Hakt for the scroll and bow. Cloakwood next.
What if i switch equipped weapons or rings with the stuff i only CARRY? Is this okay? Cause i am still USING the same number of magic items even though the pool of options is so much bigger then... cant be right. No?
To original version was that in pnp Paladins are restricted to own only 10 magical items :
- 4 weapons (a stack of magical arrows count as one magical items);
- 1 suit of armor;
- 1 shield;
- 4 misc items, like rings, belts, potions, etc... (a stack of potions also count as 1 magical item).
What about classes that cannot use armor and/or a shield? Maybe they should be allowed to use 4 + 1/ 2 misc items.
However: Will have to update the rule settings later on to make things clearer!
As usual Davaeorns guard charmed, he then lured the Battle Horrors to the killing zone. Guard then smacked Davaeorn, and with the first hit he broke his damn sword, how the hell do you brake a sword on a Mirror Image? Must be some shitty iron. Anyway it's better this way because I got the xp, and got closer to the last level. Looted the place and on to Baldur's Gate we go.
I was only going to charm Naaman for his PfU, but because nobody else agroed I applied the same method to Diyab, then Alai, then Aasim, then Emissary Tar, and then on Gardush. Garsdush killed Shennara, and then I made him attack Zhalimar, but after the Berserk ended they stopped my plans. Rested and then fed Thaldorn to them. Then I charmed Zhalimar, who killed both the second Shennara and Gardush. I made it so that Zhalimar was near death, so he was easily dispatched with minor effort.
Thanks!
Edit: I am playing with party so I'm not sure it's the right place for the question but my weak members were constantly targeted by the teleporting illithids...
Is it one of the cases one man is better than party
Guess I can always temp dismiss them and go solo, but...
However: I reworked the rules of the Noble Challenge to make things clearer...
6. Living beyond the mundane life your character is restricted to own only 10 magic items.
You can own:
- 4 weapons (a stack of magical arrows count as one magical items)
- 1 suit of armor (body armor + helm)
- 1 shield
- 4 misc items, like rings, belts, potions, etc... (a stack of potions also count as 1 magical item).
How do i lose ownership of an item?
As a Noble Adventurer you cant have a stash. So whenever you drop an item or sell it you have forfeit ownership and can never use it again. You also have to discard ownership if you exceed the number of magic items.
For instance: You already own four weapons but have found a powerful Longword +3 that you want to equip. To do so you have to get rid of one weapon before you can use the new one. Pretty simple no?
However: You can carry as much magic items as you want in your inventory but you can claim ownership only on 10. See above!
Remember: If you character cannot use a suit of armor and/or a shield then you can add them to the misc items until you reach 10 magic items again.
Dont forget that non-magical items do not count so you can use them without any restricions!!
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As long as you got one remaining slot for potions you can still buff up like crazy if you only put one potion into the quickslot. Claiming only the ownership of this one potion while the rest of the stack remains "carry stuff" might be a bit over the top but at the end its not against the rules - isnt it? What do you say about this @Arctodus?
I'm level 10 with 4th level spells, 102 hp and -20 -modifiers AC with Spirit Armor and Defensive Spin. And I'm liking my character screen when the two pictures of Kayla match.
Only couple mundane things to do before Sarevok, oh yeah and Love.
So if i for instance use a PfM or PfU scroll in SoD these two alone will block two misc slots - forever. Sure i can drop them but - holy cow - some parts of the game will get insanely hard. Melissan without PfM on Sendai and Abazigal could be a nightmare...
Maybe we should use the rule that ownership gets at least resetted when completing one part - after beating BG1, SoD and SoA?
P.S. At the end this looks like its favouring spellcasters again as they are not so heavily depended on items... dont like that!
EDIT: We could also exclude potions and scrolls from the list to give a little bit more freedom but - on the other hand - the rules will get more and more complicated and i miss the intuitive touch of the challenge...
But i got another idea for now! As more or less all of us are talking about too powerful items i opened up a BLACK LIST in the OP for all active players here as well the Heroes from the Hall of Fame! Its up to you @histamiini to name one item that you want to ban for all of us. And not to forget the very first no-reload-lord-of-murder @semiticgod. @Grond0 gets another ticket cause he is for sure THE lord of murder - too bad that in the end he´s killing mostly himself.
Okay, i will make a start and banish the following item:
STAFF OF THE MAGI
However: Is this idea okay for the rest or is it just another "mad" idea by myself?
You are right @Grond0 that some bans could be very painful for specific classes. But maybe we can find a "mininum consens" of some items or maybe even abilities that make the challenge a bit "too trivial" at some point. In my view Mages are a "major concern" but as a non-mage player i am not sure which items or abilities we should banish to make things more challenging without crippling them too much...
Staff of the Magi seems to be a good starting point. What else @histamiini or @semiticgod?
EDIT: What about these ones...
- Simulacrum (incl. Vhailor Helm) is not allowed to use any quickslot items
- No XP loop farming like Basilisks or Gauths
What are your personal rule settings @Grond0? So far i can remember:
- no healing potions
- no xp farming
- no max HP at levelup
- always take maximum risk (*cough*)
Have i forgot something?
After doing some item fetching and beating Love with the usual tactic, Kayla is currently parked before Sarevok, but he'll have to wait for tomorrow.
- No Staff of the Magi
- No Wand of Monster Summoning
I would add that Simulacrum cannot use quickslot items (as it was originally intended).
I would also love to kill healing potions - except for reg potions and specials like Durlags Goblet and Rod of Ressurection.
Opinions on the last ones?