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Killing Corwin

I hate, no detest, this NPC. However rude I am, she still follows me around BG.
So I thought lets kill her, see what happens.
And when better than in front of her daughter and the big "good bye".

So she turns red and the whole of BG, all the fist attack her............but she won't die (neither will the daughter).

One of the best lines in BG of the new EE content is "Die Drow" when you encounter Baeloth. No fuss, no bother and you get the evil archmage robe. Not that I always use it, I like Baeloth, but the option is there.
Perfect.
And I want Corwin's bow.

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Comments

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 746
    Her bow is restricted to her, no one else can use it unless you mod away the restriction.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I think it's a case of tough luck, @UnderstandMouseMagic. Corwin is your guide and protector assigned by the Grand Dukes, it's probably obligatory for the first couple of Chapters that she follows you around. After that, then yes, you can leave her behind in the Fist Camp.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241
    Kurona said:

    Her bow is restricted to her, no one else can use it unless you mod away the restriction.

    Spoilsport. :p
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241

    I think it's a case of tough luck, @UnderstandMouseMagic. Corwin is your guide and protector assigned by the Grand Dukes, it's probably obligatory for the first couple of Chapters that she follows you around. After that, then yes, you can leave her behind in the Fist Camp.

    @Gallowglass

    Not good enough, I want to kill her. >:)

    I did play with her all through before....she doesn't get any better in the detestable annoyance stakes IMO.

    I think the main problem apart from her being foistered on you.........and the voice/accent...........is the way she is so rude/dismissive of NPC who not only have seen me through BG, but who I always tend to use BG2.

    If there was just one line of dialog allowing you to tell her to STFU when she's rude to somebody who, as a Charname I am fond of, it would help.

    I just find myself thinking "Who are you, you jumped up nobody".
  • JonSnowIsAliveJonSnowIsAlive Member Posts: 196
    Is it fair though to describe a relatively large subgroup of the population as having sociopathic tendencies? At this point, wouldn't it be more accurate to call it "normal behavior"?

    Deep down we're all sociopathic animals. The only reason we behave the way we do is called society. When playing a computer game, society's pressure weighs exceptionally thin and, as such, in time gamers (human beings like any other) revert to their most basic instincts, that is killing, raping, engaging in genocide, etc.

    Society is an artificial mental construct dude, we're all monsters on the inside. >:)
    Quartz
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241

    Life's tough, you don't always get to kill (or mouth off) everyone you don't like.

    That goes for both real and virtual life, by the way.


    Fair enough.
    But that does beg the question why Corwin thinks she can?

    There is something suspect about this high ranking FF officer who was nowhere to be found when the FF were in crisis, Scar murdered, Eltan poisoned and being held and utterly corrupt Angelo put in charge.

    Simply put, where was she when BG needed her? (literally a few weeks back)
    And that question is never asked because God forbid there is some continuity between games.

    Quartz
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,956
    The out of universe explanation is bleeding obvious, but sod it, I'll play along anyway because I might as well:

    Let's suppose this isn't a video game and everything made sense: Corwin can do what about the BG1 situation, exactly? She's likely not captain yet, since Scar's got that position (unless they have multiple captains, maybe...) and got promoted in the interim between BG1 and SoD. Therefore, no reason for her to show up before your party is branded as criminals. After that? Well, for starters, there's no reason she would know the party's innocent, and even if she did, doing anything would end up with her being branded as a criminal herself, with all the risks attached including having to fight her own colleagues. Bear in mind if you call out the Flaming Fist who try to arrest you, even they don't trust Angelo but follow him regardless because they have no other choice. Honestly laying low and staying out of the PC's way is literally the best thing she could do in that situation.
    ThacoBell
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Or alternatively, we're told in BG1 that much of the Fist's strength has been sent south, to Beregost and beyond, to reinforce the border against the expected Amnian invasion. Those forces play no role in the game and are not shown on-screen, but we can reasonably suppose that they're deployed somewhere in the wilderness between Beregost and Nashkel, in zones not included in the game.

    It's easy to assume that Corwin was probably part of this border force during the events of BG1, so of course we never met her.
    ThacoBellGrum
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241

    The out of universe explanation is bleeding obvious, but sod it, I'll play along anyway because I might as well:

    Let's suppose this isn't a video game and everything made sense: Corwin can do what about the BG1 situation, exactly? She's likely not captain yet, since Scar's got that position (unless they have multiple captains, maybe...) and got promoted in the interim between BG1 and SoD. Therefore, no reason for her to show up before your party is branded as criminals. After that? Well, for starters, there's no reason she would know the party's innocent, and even if she did, doing anything would end up with her being branded as a criminal herself, with all the risks attached including having to fight her own colleagues. Bear in mind if you call out the Flaming Fist who try to arrest you, even they don't trust Angelo but follow him regardless because they have no other choice. Honestly laying low and staying out of the PC's way is literally the best thing she could do in that situation.

    First off, there's no need to be so dismissive. This is simply a discussion, nothing more, nobody is losing sleep over it.

    Second, of course there are reasons you have never come across her before, we can all invent scenarios.
    But good writing with a sympathetic understanding of "the story so far" doesn't and shouldn't require that.
    Corwin is totally unecessary in the way she has been implemented.
    It's a problem that should never have arisen.
    There are few named FF who would suit the role better, as they had proved themselves as against Angelo and being on your side.

    An obvious candidate would be Officer Vai, she's away from BG, she already trusts you, you have already worked for/with her.
    SOD is a continuation, it's not a standalone, new creation. And as such should respect what it has been built on.
    GodAndreaColombo
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,021
    @JonSnowIsAlive My comment was in jest, but sure I'll bite. Whether a behaviour is "normal" or not does not make it any less sociopathic. I don't ascribe to us being "sociopathic animals' either. If anything, our nature is a good one, it is society, with its philosophy of doing anything to get ahead, and the hate we learn throughout our lives that give rise to darker nature. Any claims that we are all monsters on the inside is just weak justification.
    Mirandel
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    edited November 2016
    We all have this reptilian brain or ''Simon'' inside our minds. Having a little vestigial monster inside is not the same as being a bona fide monster.

    I don't like Corwin much either, but to kill her in front of the crowd your character would have to be some kind of ultimate god of murder. Oh... well, your supposed to try harder not to be such a god of murder.
    ThacoBell
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241
    Francois said:

    We all have this reptilian brain or ''Simon'' inside our minds. Having a little vestigial monster inside is not the same as being a bona fide monster.

    I don't like Corwin much either, but to kill her in front of the crowd your character would have to be some kind of ultimate god of murder. Oh... well, your supposed to try harder not to be such a god of murder.

    The thread wasn't entirely serious.
    And I do have a confession.
    The only reason it happened in front of the crowd (and the daughter) was because beforehand I'd tried hard to get rid of her by being rude, the save just before they all leave BG was the only one I had.
    So to try out killing her, it was the only option.

    The huge crowd of FF attacking her was amusing though, I thought they would go after me.
    Perhaps the good people of BG and other FF have the same opinion of Corwin as me?
    GodSkatan
  • GodGod Member Posts: 996

    An obvious candidate would be Officer Vai, she's away from BG, she already trusts you, you have already worked for/with her.
    SOD is a continuation, it's not a standalone, new creation. And as such should respect what it has been built on.

    Yes. That makes sense. I will remember this when I get around to making a Baldur's Gate reboot in a couple of decades.

    However, as Amber Scott was reported to have said, Siege of Dragonspear is explicitly tailored to modern day gamers. If you ever wondered what exactly these modern day gamers are and what it means for you as someone who just wants to play great games, here's an article that may give you some insights. Spoiler: modern day gamers are not actual people, but a social phenomenon resulting from tensions in a community of conflicted interests.
    It's not only Blizzard and their Chris Metzen, and not only the likes of Amber Scott. This goes way deeper. Just about all of the industry is honestly of the opinion (hell, they'd gladly call their opinion a 'fact', and even give you some bogus numbers to support it) they can make games such that are universal and appeal to everyone, despite at least 5000 years of records of consistent evidence, and the experience of their own lifetimes, that proves the exact opposite. Such naïveté and decadent thinking are very reminiscent of the poor sods who blindly believed they could build a tower high enough to allow them to touch the sky. Very nice of them, to hand me their asses on a plate like that. I will take special pleasure in monopolizing :smirk:
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,448

    it's probably obligatory for the first couple of Chapters that she follows you around.

    Just for the prologue.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241
    God said:

    An obvious candidate would be Officer Vai, she's away from BG, she already trusts you, you have already worked for/with her.
    SOD is a continuation, it's not a standalone, new creation. And as such should respect what it has been built on.

    Yes. That makes sense. I will remember this when I get around to making a Baldur's Gate reboot in a couple of decades.

    However, as Amber Scott was reported to have said, Siege of Dragonspear is explicitly tailored to modern day gamers. If you ever wondered what exactly these modern day gamers are and what it means for you as someone who just wants to play great games, here's an article that may give you some insights. Spoiler: modern day gamers are not actual people, but a social phenomenon resulting from tensions in a community of conflicted interests.
    It's not only Blizzard and their Chris Metzen, and not only the likes of Amber Scott. This goes way deeper. Just about all of the industry is honestly of the opinion (hell, they'd gladly call their opinion a 'fact', and even give you some bogus numbers to support it) they can make games such that are universal and appeal to everyone, despite at least 5000 years of records of consistent evidence, and the experience of their own lifetimes, that proves the exact opposite. Such naïveté and decadent thinking are very reminiscent of the poor sods who blindly believed they could build a tower high enough to allow them to touch the sky. Very nice of them, to hand me their asses on a plate like that. I will take special pleasure in monopolizing :smirk:
    @God

    Interesting link, they really are getting themselves in a mess aren't they?

    But this is not really the place for that discussion (though one worth having).







    God
  • Mush_MushMush_Mush Member Posts: 465

    Life's tough, you don't always get to kill (or mouth off) everyone you don't like.

    That goes for both real and virtual life, by the way.


    I disagree, there's such a thing as free will. You can do or say whatever you want to anyone you want. There will be consequences but you have the freedom to do it regardless, same principle could/should be the case for RPGs.
    GodThacoBellAndreaColombo
  • GodGod Member Posts: 996
    Mush_Mush said:

    Life's tough, you don't always get to kill (or mouth off) everyone you don't like.

    That goes for both real and virtual life, by the way.

    I disagree, there's such a thing as free will. You can do or say whatever you want to anyone you want. There will be consequences but you have the freedom to do it regardless, same principle could/should be the case for RPGs.
    Oh my cod. There's still hope for humankind! Yay!
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    But don't forget: in D&D the DM is always right. In this case the DM is the game developpers. I think the dynamic of making games is very different now compare to when I was a kid. But today you have mods so players can pretty much get whatever they want from a game.
  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 316
    You can abandon Corwin in camp - which would make sense since she still has a role in the FF outside of that and is a part of the armed force you carry with you. You only have to drag her around whilst she's your personal escort in BG. I was fairly pleased that you can also break up the duos without any complaining (Minsc + Dynheir and Khalid + Jaheira).

    Officer Vai (your first named flaming fist) doesn't work because an evil party can (or is forced if you have very low REP) to liquidate her.

    Scar doesn't work for story reasons.

    The Flaming Fists inside the compound in BG1 don't work because, I assume, most players liquidate them when they go to see Eltan (or if they go the rescue Eltan route).

    There *is* one FF guard that contacts you, IIRC, in Northern Baldur's Gate in the final chapter, but he only delivers a few short lines of dialogue and marches off screen. Though I suspect if your REP is low enough he may engage in hostilities.
    JuliusBorisov
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 509
    You can break up the duos? Hmm that didn't work for me, not with Minsch and Dynaheir anyway. They stuck together like they always did. I didn't use Jaheira and Khalid in my run.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    In my experience so far, the coupled characters are sometimes separable and sometimes not in SoD.

    Certainly you can keep Jaheira without being obliged to recruit Khalid, and I think you can recruit Khalid (without Jaheira in the party) and not be obliged to (re-)recruit her too, although I think they become inseparable once you've got them both in the party at the same time.

    Also, I think you can (at least some of the time, maybe it's all of the time, I'm not sure) recruit Dynaheir without Minsc, but not Minsc without Dynaheir, even after you've earlier had both in the party at the same time.

    Some clarification by the devs of the coupling rules for SoD would be welcome ...
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241
    batoor said:

    You can break up the duos? Hmm that didn't work for me, not with Minsch and Dynaheir anyway. They stuck together like they always did. I didn't use Jaheira and Khalid in my run.

    They wouldn't seperate for me either.

    Also couldn't recruit them and Edwin which is bizarre as there is actually dialog in BG that allows you to do that and explains why you can (have to keep an eye on the witch ect.).
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    Also couldn't recruit them and Edwin which is bizarre as there is actually dialog in BG that allows you to do that and explains why you can (have to keep an eye on the witch ect.).

    Not really so bizarre. BG1 does allow you to do this temporarily, but they soon break into a fight. Likewise BG2 allows you to recruit Minsc and Edwin together, but again they break into a fight if you keep them together for long.
    ThacoBell
  • GodGod Member Posts: 996
    SoD does have a couple of annoyingly limiting design choices, the mutual exclusivity of NPCs being one of them. Though it is possible, there's no straightforward way to lead a mixed up party.

    But the only thing I found really unacceptable in SoD are the immersion-breaking invincible instakill Flaming Fist mages that pop up if you engage in, uh, unsolicited violence.
    Seriously, if Baldur's Gate had indestructible mercenaries able to gate in just about anywhere and imprison anyone, the entire storyline is basically pointless. Any one of these mages could quite easily make short work of that Caelar gal; no need to field an entire army and involve some random evil deity offspring in it. Not to mention that, being so powerful, they could've prevented Sarevok's ascension just as well, further invalidating the preceding campaign.
    In IWD2, one would get a message that the game could not progress because an essential NPC was slain and asking to load a save; hardly a very immersive solution to the problem either. But some kind of a 'Sorry, we didn't anticipate that you'd kill this guy. Please reload and try something else' is at least informative about design constraints and more honest than overpowering the player with invincibles, which creates a largely unwanted sensation of unfair failure.
    KuronaArtona
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,021
    @God that also goes for Arkanis Gath in BG2
    God
  • GodGod Member Posts: 996
    That's right. There's some precedent throughout the BG series, so one could theoretically argue it was included for the sake of consistency, but it doesn't make it any less of a scumbag move :smirk:
    manoose47
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