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Does internet require cruelty to be lively? (Embarrased to see myself at so many last posted slots)

TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
... when I am at it!

I should apologise for the provo in the title, but I just wonder why do I see myself at even five topics at the top, when this is such a great fora.

But also there are periods when I am not online. Here I am not hassled for being inconsistent, as in starting a fire, but not putting it out.

I frankly think Beamdog fora are great: moderated, and bound together by some minimal kindness by understanding this is an open space for all, and gamers in particular.

This would be my primary fora home at the moment.


Is it also yours? Do you feel empowered or inhibited by the good qualities of these fora? Do you enjoy what is here, but require titillations of the cruel internet?

If this pulls out any lurkers, I'll be more than glad! :-D And as should be clear, I really do love Beamdog fora.
ShandaxxmashedtatersJuliusBorisov
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Comments

  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,792
    Well there have been points in the past when the forum was very lively indeed. However, two times in particular that correlated with an increase in cruelty.

    It doesn't have to be that way, but there are certain topics that can draw people from the less civilized parts of the Internet here and suddenly the forum is a far less pleasant place to be.

    So what do you prefer, lively and cruel or "almost dead" and nice?
    TStaelmashedtaters
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    edited December 2016
    I appreciating you @Shandyr being first to post.

    But I admit I was a bit naïve because I never thought the period of "Baldur's Gate sacrosanct was violated by Beamdog" was a low point, as much, arguably, as it was a high point in terms of volume, and more importantly principle.

    I admit I took that as given.

    I was not fully in favour of all commercial hedges of Beamdog at that time, even as I still feel necessity not to be to unkind, even if critical.

    But would you not hope and think that those disparged by those ephemeral "friends" are still here, whereas systematic trans etc haters are gone?

    Please do not tell me you miss them for the frisson! ;-) (or "cruel")
    mashedtaters
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 6,792
    edited December 2016
    TStael said:


    But would you not hope and think that those disparged by those ephemeral "friends" are still here, whereas systematic trans etc haters are gone?

    I am pretty sure they are not gone. Just open a topic about Mizhena and see what happens ;)

    Edit: And now that I mentioned Mizhena, oh Dear Lord, who knows what's going to happen to this very thread.
    ThacoBellSkatanmashedtatersNonnahswriter
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    Shandyr said:

    TStael said:


    But would you not hope and think that those disparged by those ephemeral "friends" are still here, whereas systematic trans etc haters are gone?

    I am pretty sure they are not gone. Just open a topic about Mizhena and see what happens ;)
    Lol! I like yer style.

    But the fact that Mizhena haters could thrive here is just too lovely, or at least more than an earnest transt-hater can take.

    I am somewhat amibavent of MLK, I think he is de Gaulle, or the opportunist histroy pics to the right side, but besides, he said:

    " I am not doing this for the blacks of the US south only, but also to the whites: I want to free them of their hate for their fellow men."

    Here we go, eh? :smiley:
    mashedtaters
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    Well, great support and and great cruelty I believe both come with an increase in participation. Shandyr's example in their last comment is a prime example of the first. Look at these threads when a new release lands, a massive upsurge in participation coming with both bad and good.
    There is a thread here in fact, all about good things that have happened in your life, its popularity comes and goes, but it never dies. The politics thread is probably the best example in this forum. It has been exceedingly lively, and despite having turned into a debate thread, its very cordial. We have been able to discuss opposing political views without devolving into cruelty. There have been a few examples of personal attacks, yes, but they are amazingly in the minority. I think the community here is overwhelmingly in the supportive side.
    mashedtatersJuliusBorisovNonnahswriter
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    PS. Mizhena haters and critics, do post - but haters please know the difference, as hard as that is!

    Besides - why does "off topic" not look that lively? I feel during the week it does not.
    mashedtaters
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    ThacoBell said:

    Well, great support and and great cruelty I believe both come with an increase in participation. Shandyr's example in their last comment is a prime example of the first. Look at these threads when a new release lands, a massive upsurge in participation coming with both bad and good.

    The politics thread is probably the best example in this forum. It has been exceedingly lively, and despite having turned into a debate thread, its very cordial.

    I should hope you think so. :smiley:

    But as much as I am sentimental about "guess facts about the next poster" etc - I am thinking of non-formulaic theards.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    Well, what are you looking for specifically with "non-formulaic"
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    ThacoBell said:

    Well, what are you looking for specifically with "non-formulaic"

    I'll dwelve a bit into my personal experience which I do not intend as any sort universal position, but probably it is not totally irrelevant either.

    I've totally abandoned "Bioware social" because boy, were those fora elitist! This was years and years back, and I am not saying those fora did not look lively, but it felt rather impossible to be included if you came from the outside. And I am a BioWare lover too!

    I still pop to gog.com then and again, but the moment I declared to find Dethmold homophobic, personally, and not able to replay TW2, and wanting eventual TW3 to do better, everything changed. The concept of critical fan was alien, obviously.
    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    I don't know what you consider lively, but I usually come back to the off topic section with 30+ new posts.
    TStael
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    ThacoBell said:

    I don't know what you consider lively, but I usually come back to the off topic section with 30+ new posts.

    What I like about here is that you know I firmly disagree with you about human sexuality ("no homophobia" as a dark joke) - and agree with you about many gaming related aspects.

    I appreciate your posts either way, because you can tell.

    But it is not that much how many posts, but if all here feel free to start a thread, or to post to any thread.

    I tell you: when I tried to engage opinion, I was ignored in BioWare social, quite completely. When I told an earnest non homophobic one, I am rather downrepped in gog.com. And recently even more so when I fair n square told a feller I reported him for dismissing autism as fakeness he'd like like to cencor by face punching.

    I admit I felt I had to, because this fora made me know I had done wrong by somewone with autism - but being down repped 50+ when telling someone their "I'll punch in the face those faker autists" is wrong... It just feels so poorly.


    ThacoBellmashedtaters
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    The politics thread has flirted with this recently, for obvious reasons. But it's been fairly cordial despite some very strong feelings. I mean, this isn't the RPG Codex. I've delved into posting there in the past, and let me tell you, it makes Mos Eisley's claim to "wretched hive of scum and villainy" seem quaint by comparison. You have to give as good as you take over there or you will get chewed up and spit out.

    That said, these forums didn't even flirt with incivility until the "Siege" controversy when the expansion came out, when these forums (along with review sites) were hit with a wave of people, 90% of whom couldn't have told you whether positive or negative THACO was a good thing if their life depended on it, and were simply participating in a Gamergate/Men's Right crusade and it engulfed the entire site for about 2 weeks.
    ThacoBellmashedtaters
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    My deepseated feeling is that by giving in to bigots Beamdog won none over, but hopefully lost some. I meanwhile did not ever cancel my special edition pack, because I felt that the moderates needed to stay kindly.

    I am still curious why a fora where saying that "punching the faker autist in the face" is wrong gets one roughed up, figuratively, would be so popular. Arguably it is lively and popular.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    edited December 2016
    The annonymity of the internet makes it very easy for people to feel like they can get away with anything. The best way to determine someone's character is to make them believe there are no consequences.

    *EDIT* And when the hate is so vocal, it makes giving up or keeping quiet the much easier course of action.
    mashedtaters
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    edited December 2016
    TStael said:

    My deepseated feeling is that by giving in to bigots Beamdog won none over, but hopefully lost some. I meanwhile did not ever cancel my special edition pack, because I felt that the moderates needed to stay kindly.

    I am still curious why a fora where saying that "punching the faker autist in the face" is wrong gets one roughed up, figuratively, would be so popular. Arguably it is lively and popular.

    I admit this "autistic" insult that I see from the Gamergate/Alt-right types is something I haven't bothered to understand, but I see it all the time and my guess is this: these people take special delight in saying the worst thing imaginable to get people upset. They get off on it. And since the places you are likely to see such posts are filled to the brim with sexually frustrated young men, it makes alot more sense. Again, I use the RPG Codex as an example, but I'm guessing that most gaming forums devolve into it at one time or another. There is a particular breed of nastiness that has evolved in the online gaming community. And being someone at odds with their world-view is why my posts may tend to be more combative than they should when things get heated. There is no way to survive on most online-gaming forums if you aren't willing to go to their level.

    It helps to be familiar with their language, it very easy to predict. You'll be called PC, you will be informed you've been triggered, you'll be told to retreat to your safe-space, you'll be told you're a cuck, and a "libtard" and, yes, you'll probably be called autistic, for some reason. That's pretty much their entire quiver of arrows. It pretty easy to pre-empt nearly all of their attacks on you, and even turn their own language against them before they have a chance to use it against you. That really drives them up the wall.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    ThacoBell said:

    The annonymity of the internet makes it very easy for people to feel like they can get away with anything. The best way to determine someone's character is to make them believe there are no consequences.

    But why would they want to get away with homophobia, transphobia, woman hating - or slandering Chancellor Merkel for not having suicided by rushing the Berlin Wall?

    (Latter just now in gog.com, which probably objectively I should deny my opinion)

    I just wonder whom would really think a homophobic, tansphobic, woman hating unfactual world is better?

    I rather think the best way is to know someone. That should tell how they behave to face, or anonymously.

    But then again, the person downrepping me for not thinking autism is a fake illness that deserves a punch in the face probably thinks he is amiably maintaining bro culture.

    I am so sorry for him, becuase my bro is nothing of the sort - and excluding those whom already have the highest threshold hardly diversifies the conversation.

    Such world view - why?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    There are a bunch of terrible people out there, while they may be the most vocal, I firmly believe that they are not the majority.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689

    TStael said:

    My deepseated feeling is that by giving in to bigots Beamdog won none over, but hopefully lost some. I meanwhile did not ever cancel my special edition pack, because I felt that the moderates needed to stay kindly.

    I am still curious why a fora where saying that "punching the faker autist in the face" is wrong gets one roughed up, figuratively, would be so popular. Arguably it is lively and popular.

    I admit this "autistic" insult that I see from the Gamergate/Alt-right types is something I haven't bothered to understand, but I see it all the time and my guess is this: these people take special delight in saying the worst thing imaginable to get people upset.

    It helps to be familiar with their language, it very easy to predict.
    Only you do not call them white supremacists or neo-nazis - I do. Of course I am being, wink wink, playful.

    More seriously: do you not realise that persons whom have a social handicap might be here, either as lurkers or even participants?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    TStael said:

    ThacoBell said:

    The annonymity of the internet makes it very easy for people to feel like they can get away with anything. The best way to determine someone's character is to make them believe there are no consequences.

    But why would they want to get away with homophobia, transphobia, woman hating - or slandering Chancellor Merkel for not having suicided by rushing the Berlin Wall?

    (Latter just now in gog.com, which probably objectively I should deny my opinion)

    I just wonder whom would really think a homophobic, tansphobic, woman hating unfactual world is better?

    I rather think the best way is to know someone. That should tell how they behave to face, or anonymously.

    But then again, the person downrepping me for not thinking autism is a fake illness that deserves a punch in the face probably thinks he is amiably maintaining bro culture.

    I am so sorry for him, becuase my bro is nothing of the sort - and excluding those whom already have the highest threshold hardly diversifies the conversation.

    Such world view - why?
    I only ever go to specific game forums on GOG, and I've always found them very civil. I had no idea their general area was this way as well.

    As for the straight-up racial slurs and homophobia, I think it boils down to the fact that they know if they ever said such things to anyone in public, they'd be rightly shunned. So, in a way, it's better that they are doing it in a insignificant online forum. On the other hand, it's now been unchecked and running so rampant for so long that it is starting to bleed out in the real-life.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 3,330
    TStael said:

    TStael said:

    My deepseated feeling is that by giving in to bigots Beamdog won none over, but hopefully lost some. I meanwhile did not ever cancel my special edition pack, because I felt that the moderates needed to stay kindly.

    I am still curious why a fora where saying that "punching the faker autist in the face" is wrong gets one roughed up, figuratively, would be so popular. Arguably it is lively and popular.

    I admit this "autistic" insult that I see from the Gamergate/Alt-right types is something I haven't bothered to understand, but I see it all the time and my guess is this: these people take special delight in saying the worst thing imaginable to get people upset.

    It helps to be familiar with their language, it very easy to predict.
    Only you do not call them white supremacists or neo-nazis - I do. Of course I am being, wink wink, playful.

    More seriously: do you not realise that persons whom have a social handicap might be here, either as lurkers or even participants?
    I know there are a few, but I do my best to abide by the rules of the forum. I've come close to crossing the line before, but you quickly learn how to frame your language to not attack anyone individually, even if that is what you are doing in our own head.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689

    TStael said:



    I just wonder whom would really think a homophobic, tansphobic, woman hating unfactual world is better?

    Such world view - why?

    I only ever go to specific game forums on GOG, and I've always found them very civil. I had no idea their general area was this way as well.

    As for the straight-up racial slurs and homophobia, I think it boils down to the fact that they know if they ever said such things to anyone in public, they'd be rightly shunned. So, in a way, it's better that they are doing it in a insignificant online forum. On the other hand, it's now been unchecked and running so rampant for so long that it is starting to bleed out in the real-life.
    Tacit acceptance, I take it. PM me if you want to see the homophobia thread - I will not force it through your filters, but let it be said it was the single instance I have seen moderation there.

    That should say it all.

    I also think you could do a bit better. Gaming immrsion is not a fragile understanding, as far as I can tell. It is well lived and loved.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,803
    I've been in this forum from the beggining and it has alway been like this. We have periods of the year when post counts go down... December-January and July usually.

    Trust me as soon as Beamdog makes an announcement this place will be on fire :) And the banhammer and firethrower of Boo, unfortunately, will have to come back in force. And we REALLY prefer not to use them... you should see the discussions before we banish or even warn someone in the forums...
    JuliusBorisov
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 689
    mlnevese said:

    I've been in this forum from the beggining and it has alway been like this. We have periods of the year when post counts go down... December-January and July usually.

    Trust me as soon as Beamdog makes an announcement this place will be on fire :) And the banhammer and firethrower of Boo, unfortunately, will have to come back in force. And we REALLY prefer not to use them... you should see the discussions before we banish or even warn someone in the forums...

    Tsk. Only I think Boo will go for the eyes of bigotry.
    ThacoBellCrevsDaakmashedtaters
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,803
    Don't take me wrong. When necessary people are summarily banished with no discussion at all... We just prefer not to do things that way whenever possible :)
    JuliusBorisov
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 3,951
    In Finland, trolls are small, cute, friendly hippopotamus-like creatures.
    CrevsDaak
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 745
    from my experience. dev forums tend to be less toxic in general. the gog forums hate the enhanced editions the most of any forum i have seen.
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 433
    I'm not sure, tbh. How cruel is "cruel"?

    Some of the funniest memories I have of forums are when there was some kind of drama going on, so I think there needs to be some conflict. It's like in TV shows... if everybody got along all the time and no conflict ever happened, nobody would watch them because they'd soon get boring.

    I've been on forums where there's lots of conflict and arguing happening (PlanetBaldursGate springs to mind), and I've been on forums where there's none. It depends on why I'm on the forum in the first place as to which I prefer... if I want something specific from the forum - information, advice, arranging game events - then I'd rather keep conflict/drama to a minimum, but if I'm doing it just to socialise (which, tbh, I don't really do much of anymore) then I think there needs to be some conflict, otherwise it just gets boring and people end up leaving.

    But there is a fine line between a healthy level of conflict and outright malice. I've seen both, and I've been on the receiving end of both (although I've never gotten to the point where somebody has taken action irl against me), and sometimes people do go too far.

    So, do we need cruelty: I don't know, but we definitely need conflict and drama for a social forum to be lively.
    CrevsDaak
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,803
    We have our little dramas here. Users who do not post in threads where a certain other user has posted, users who will always post immediately after a certain other user just to disagree or bring back some other issue not pertinent to that thread, etc.

    If the action goes against forum rules we deal with it. Fortunately we never had a case of stalking here.
    JuliusBorisovThacoBellCrevsDaak
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,503
    Oh man, yeah the no-reload threads are super popular.
    JuliusBorisovmlneveseKuronaCrevsDaak
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